Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

Asd202 said:
You don't have to buy MS hardware to play their first party games. That's the point.
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To which MS doesn't care, they just want you in their ecosystem. They don't care if you're on PC or on Xbox. They are giving options to more people this way instead of just making them buy their 1 box.

Does this reduce the amount of consoles sold? Sure, but again as long as you are buying their games within their ecosystem, it's clear MS does not care where you get it from.

edit: Surface for example, will never beat Apple's #'s, but MS is making a lot from that device despite that you can get almost everything on it also on your PC through the Win10 store. It's options.
 
Chris1 said:
What's the difference between buying on 1 piece of plastic and another...? MS get's all the money either way..

That's like saying Sony allowing you to buy games from the web store doesn't count because you don't need to buy it on Sony hardware.. I mean, it's the same thing really?
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Yeah, to MS, you will have a MS account that you buy games on and they don't care what you play it on. That is their future. Scorpio is just a way to play games that you have purchased on your account.




MAU
 
c0de said:
People had big libraries on Xbox 360, too. Didn't stop them from switching to PlayStation.
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Late for this response but your counter argument makes no sense.

Last time I checked people could not play their 360 games on the Xbox One at launch, in fact backwards compatibility only became available for a select amount of games end of last year*. Thus, meaning that for almost 2 years peoples 360 games were irrelevant to whether they bought the system or not.

This is inherently different to the situation faced by either of the iterative systems, as they will play all of their predecessor's previously released games from the moment that they are released. Thus, potentially becoming a factor in whether or whether not someone would switch to the system on the opposing ecosystem to which they are potentially bound.


*Please note, I'm aware that members of the Xbox preview program got 5 months earlier access to backwards compatibility, and saying end of last year is a bit disingenuous. However, because it wasn't released to the wider public until november of that year, I chose to ignore this initial period as most people would not be preview members.
 
Asd202 said:
You don't have to buy MS hardware to play their first party games. That's the point.
Click to expand...
I thought that's what you meant but you said "you can buy from other sources" which threw me off, because the source is still MS no matter where you buy it from.

I mean I sorta agree putting all games on PC is hurting their xbox brand but I don't really care personally. At the end of the day as long as I'm not being put into a disadvantage in multiplayer (via Scorpio or PC) then I'm fine and I don't see how that's really an issue, if you're a PC gamer you just saved $400 on buying an xbox. My only problem with it is having to pay for multiplayer while PC gets free, but MS will announce free multiplayer at E3 to make up for that I'm sure
let me dream :(
.
 
Chris1 said:
I thought that's what you meant but you said "you can buy from other sources" which threw me off, because the source is still MS no matter where you buy it from.

I mean I sorta agree putting all games on PC is hurting their xbox brand but I don't really care personally. At the end of the day as long as I'm not being put into a disadvantage in multiplayer (via Scorpio or PC) then I'm fine and I don't see how that's really an issue, if you're a PC gamer you just saved $400 on buying an xbox. My only problem with it is having to pay for multiplayer while PC gets free, but MS will announce free multiplayer at E3 to make up for that I'm sure
let me dream :(
.
Click to expand...

When the new business model for Xbox will become successful they'll bring online paywall to their W10 store :P.
 
Asd202 said:
You don't have to buy MS hardware to play their first party games. That's the point.
Click to expand...

And who cares at the end of the day?

MS will make more money if they sell their games on PC.

Xbox owners will not have their experience tarnished just because someone else can play the game.

Just because a game is on PC it does not mean that someone is going to go out and buy a PC over an Xbox.
 
Three said:
There was no need to ask already did it. The point was that 720p does not scale to 1080p. Unlike 1080p to 4K. That last calculation is also completely pointless unless you had a 1D screen.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if supersampling a 1080p from 1440p and then upscale it to 4k achieve
a better IQ, then going direct from 1440p to 4k.
 
MilkyJoe said:
And who cares at the end of the day?

MS will make more money if they sell their games on PC.

Xbox owners will not have their experience tarnished just because someone else can play the game.

Just because a game is on PC it does not mean that someone is going to go out and buy a PC over an Xbox.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Asd202 said:
Yeah there are but I'm talking about hardware and games associated with it.
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Games won't be associated with hardware anymore. Being tied to the hardware is what MS is trying to get rid of (and in all actuality, that's better for consumers) Sony is doing it too but just within the playstation console side.

Asd202 said:
You don't have to buy MS hardware to play their first party games. That's the point.
Click to expand...

Yes and MS doesn't care either way. The console isn't a high profit margin product. They make more money in software sales.

Asd202 said:
Sure but it's something to think about and it may affect Scorpio sales. Xbox is more about being a service now.
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Scorpio sales aren't the bottom line. Users are.

Asd202 said:
When the new business model for Xbox will become successful they'll bring online paywall to their W10 store :P.
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MS tried this before and it failed miserably, I doubt that they would repeat it twice. Do I see something else behind a paywall, sure, they have to find out a way to get users to subscribe, but that's for MS to find. But everything you have free on PC now, is going to stay that way.

It seems to me that you are still in the mindset of old where the console is the main thing. Those days are over (even in Sony's camp). It's about staying with and using one brand over another.

It's more Xbox Live vs. PlayStation Network. Windows Store vs. PlayStation Store. The consoles do a play a part, but that's where the actual warz is gonna be. Just fyi.
 
Zedox said:
It's more Xbox Live vs. PlayStation Network. Windows Store vs. PlayStation Store. The consoles do a play a part, but that's where the actual warz is gonna be. Just fyi.
Click to expand...

The owner of the ecosystem also gets a part of every multiplat title sold, the bigger
the active ecosystem user. The more multiplat games are bought in that ecosystem
which equals more revenue for the owner of the ecosystem.
 
MilkyJoe said:
And who cares at the end of the day?

MS will make more money if they sell their games on PC.

Xbox owners will not have their experience tarnished just because someone else can play the game.

Just because a game is on PC it does not mean that someone is going to go out and buy a PC over an Xbox.
Click to expand...

Stop this sensible non-nonsense!
 
dragonelite said:
The owner of the ecosystem also gets a part of every multiplat title sold, the bigger
the active ecosystem user. The more multiplat games are bought in that ecosystem
which equals more revenue for the owner of the ecosystem.
Click to expand...

Which also comes back to the Win10 store as we'll start to see more and more 3rd party games on the store. TellTale is going to be putting their games there soon also. Most major 3rd parties and indies will in time because it's just another place to get exposure on their games.

Big dogs like EA won't because they have their own store, but most publishers will.
 
dragonelite said:
The owner of the ecosystem also gets a part of every multiplat title sold, the bigger
the active ecosystem user. The more multiplat games are bought in that ecosystem
which equals more revenue for the owner of the ecosystem.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The more they sell in their respective stores, the more they can use that as marketing to other developers to make software on their platform. That in turn brings more games/apps to users who purchase more and that brings more money to the holder and developer and keeps that relationship going. It's really simple.

Somnia said:
Which also comes back to the Win10 store as we'll start to see more and more 3rd party games on the store. TellTale is going to be putting their games there soon also. Most major 3rd parties and indies will in time because it's just another place to get exposure on their games.

Big dogs like EA won't because they have their own store, but most publishers will.
Click to expand...

Yep. I think what's going to be interesting is that EA will be selling UWAs for Windows 10 gamers but just through their store and their Xbox variants will be on the Windows Store. You may even see them put it on both to see what is more profitable for them as a gauge. But that will be for smaller titles.

That's why i'm so interested in what MS is doing...shit is just interesting in how all these companies start moving their ish or not moving their ish around. How much more indies will go on the Windows Store? Will Steam ever support UWAs? We'll find out next time on DRAGONBALL Z.
 
Somnia said:
To which MS doesn't care, they just want you in their ecosystem. They don't care if you're on PC or on Xbox. They are giving options to more people this way instead of just making them buy their 1 box.

Does this reduce the amount of consoles sold? Sure, but again as long as you are buying their games within their ecosystem, it's clear MS does not care where you get it from.

edit: Surface for example, will never beat Apple's #'s, but MS is making a lot from that device despite that you can get almost everything on it also on your PC through the Win10 store. It's options.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I don't have specific numbers to back it up, but I'd think MS makes just as much profit selling one Xbox One as they do selling just two or thee games. It's all about the ecosystem and software sales. Get em in the door and realize profits regardless of hardware.
 
Samurai G0SU said:
What is steam allowed uwp!?!?! Ah shit son.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shit. Hide yo wallets? Nah i jk
Click to expand...

Steam could very well support UWAs in their own store and have a UWP version of Steamworks. I see no reason why they wouldn't want to do that for their Windows 10 gamers. They want to be a platform, that's how you do it. I don't think it will happen until they see Windows Store more of a threat.
 
Caayn said:
And I'm not going to point out names. There's no need to act dumb, if you've followed DF threads since the start of the generations you should already know.

Edit: I'll leave it with this post. I've said what I wanted to say and I've no intention of dragging this on any further.
Click to expand...

I follow most of the digital foundry threads but I've seen nobody and I literally mean nobody complaining about pixel perfect screens mention they have a 4K TV even if you were to ignore their argument that you get better scaling of 1080p compared to 900p etc. I'm not acting dumb it's just that if you're going to throw the "people were stupidly saying this" card around here it's worth backing it up with something. If it's as widespread as you make it appear in DF threads it also shouldn't be too hard to find.
 
MilkyJoe said:
And who cares at the end of the day?

MS will make more money if they sell their games on PC.

Xbox owners will not have their experience tarnished just because someone else can play the game.

Just because a game is on PC it does not mean that someone is going to go out and buy a PC over an Xbox.
Click to expand...

depends on who that someone is
 
So if the MAU is the thing, and Xbox games are UWP on PC or Xbox, then I wonder if they back off the Gold for MP and just make it a subscription service for free games.

Basically, go back to where PS+ was last gen, to entice PC players into the system.
 
TRios Zen said:
So if the MAU is the thing, and Xbox games are UWP on PC or Xbox, then I wonder if they back off the Gold for MP and just make it a subscription service for free games.

Basically, go back to where PS+ was last gen, to entice PC players into the system.
Click to expand...

That's the most logical thing that they can do and it would be a megaton at an E3 press conference. I just think that they still need to do more to have people really want XBL subscription. I have my thoughts around it but it just seems crazy. We'll see what they actually do though. Like I said before, MS has the most interesting showing of E3 in my opinion because there's so many questions.
 
MilkyJoe said:
And who cares at the end of the day?

MS will make more money if they sell their games on PC.

Xbox owners will not have their experience tarnished just because someone else can play the game.

Just because a game is on PC it does not mean that someone is going to go out and buy a PC over an Xbox.
Click to expand...

While I don't disagree, the real money is made from subscriptions and third-party licenses. If someone picks PC over Xbox, then Microsoft may lose those third-party sales to Steam, and at the moment they're not getting Live subs.

But I get what you're saying, and I feel like this thread is really starting to run out of, ahem, steam now. We need announcements really before this discussion can go anywhere new.
 
The point of this thread eludes me. Why do people want more flops (even though there's already trillions of them) but no one talks about potential successes????
 
The God said:
depends on who that someone is
Click to expand...

We know that there are a large amount of people that will buy a console over PC gaming no matter what's available where.

The argument that matters is, which console to buy?

As long as an exclusive is only on one of the console it's still an exclusive that matters to these people.
 
TRios Zen said:
So if the MAU is the thing, and Xbox games are UWP on PC or Xbox, then I wonder if they back off the Gold for MP and just make it a subscription service for free games.

Basically, go back to where PS+ was last gen, to entice PC players into the system.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a legit thing for Microsoft to do, 4 games for like 3 euro/month is not expensive for me at least.
 
TRios Zen said:
So if the MAU is the thing, and Xbox games are UWP on PC or Xbox, then I wonder if they back off the Gold for MP and just make it a subscription service for free games.

Basically, go back to where PS+ was last gen, to entice PC players into the system.
Click to expand...

No way are Microsoft getting rid of that cash cow.
 
Daft Punk said:
I disagree. We've had several generations show that the stronger console that comes out later doesn't somehow make people jump on board with them. Example? Xbox with PS2. PS3 with Wii. Vita with 3DS. What was the main determining factor for those systems having trouble? Price and perception.

I really think people are overestimating the general public's want for more powerful systems as opposed to powerful systems that hit a price range that is acceptable. Scorpio could be 10 TFlops and gives you BC from now until the end of the time, but if that price is too much, they are DOA. Just look at the Xbone. MS was on top of the world at the end of last generation with them selling 360 extremely well. You even had people claim MS was going to win this gen too. What actually happened? People went to PS4 instead and not because of the power difference, but because the power difference in relation to the price gap. Why would the more expensive system be weaker? That turned people off and that's what is going to determine how the market reacts to Scorpio. All Sony has to do is keep holding up the value of the system and keep players in their ecosystem.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Microsoft will try to keep a competitive price with Scorpio. And if they do, having a more powerful system will benefit them.
 
I really do believe if phil asked natella for ms to eat a little bit of money on this device, he would say yes.

I feel a heavy focus is on xbox. Considering the recent confrences from ms. If they play it safe, perhaps he is not the real.... Xboss...

*que sad music here
 
Samurai G0SU said:
I really do believe if phil asked natella for ms to eat a little bit of money on this device, he would say yes.

I feel a heavy focus is on xbox. Considering the recent confrences from ms. If they play it safe, perhaps he is not the real.... Xboss...

*que sad music here
Click to expand...

LOL, it's Nadella dude.
 
get2sammyb said:
While I don't disagree, the real money is made from subscriptions and third-party licenses. If someone picks PC over Xbox, then Microsoft may lose those third-party sales to Steam, and at the moment they're not getting Live subs.

But I get what you're saying, and I feel like this thread is really starting to run out of, ahem, steam now. We need announcements really before this discussion can go anywhere new.
Click to expand...

Yep 100% agree, the problem is there is this mindset that people will pick PC over a console if the games are there. But it's no going to be in the numbers that matter.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a quad SLI Titan rig , VR, steering wheel, 3 curver monitors etc... But I can't be arsed with the hassle of it.

Consoles will alway have a demographic.
 
MilkyJoe said:
Yep 100% agree, the problem is there is this mindset that people will pick PC over a console if the games are there. But it's no going to be in the numbers that matter.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a quad SLI Titan rig , VR, steering wheel, 3 curver monitors etc... But I can't be arsed with the hassle of it.

Consoles will alway have a demographic.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. It only really makes a difference to list wars.
 
MilkyJoe said:
Yep 100% agree, the problem is there is this mindset that people will pick PC over a console if the games are there. But it's no going to be in the numbers that matter.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a quad SLI Titan rig , VR, steering wheel, 3 curver monitors etc... But I can't be arsed with the hassle of it.

Consoles will alway have a demographic.
Click to expand...

Agree, for me I could buy any PC I wanted, problem is I dont want to play online with a mouse, and I dont want to play against it either. Also I detest cheating in online games, PC is not for me.

If I ever get a gaming PC it would be for single player games...but I would prefer a strong console, 600 $ yes please.
 
Zedox said:
That's the most logical thing that they can do and it would be a megaton at an E3 press conference. I just think that they still need to do more to have people really want XBL subscription. I have my thoughts around it but it just seems crazy. We'll see what they actually do though. Like I said before, MS has the most interesting showing of E3 in my opinion because there's so many questions.
Click to expand...

dragonelite said:
That sounds like a legit thing for Microsoft to do, 4 games for like 3 euro/month is not expensive for me at least.
Click to expand...

Well if I were a gambling man, I wouldn't put money on yet, but I think there are signs that this could be where we are headed.

krang said:
No way are Microsoft getting rid of that cash cow.
Click to expand...

So if the Xbox App on Win 10 is basically an Xbox of it's own, then all 360 Games with Gold as well as all One games with Gold would be the carrot dangling to try to drive PC subscription to Gold.

I hear you though, I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm wondering: IS there a turning point where enticing people who are PC only to get a Gold subscription for free games, outweighs the benefits of using Gold as the gateway to MP.
 
geordiemp said:
Agree, for me I could buy any PC I wanted, problem is I dont want to play online with a mouse, and I dont want to play against it either. Also I detest cheating in online games, PC is not for me.

If I ever get a gaming PC it would be for single player games...but I would prefer a strong console, 600 $ yes please.
Click to expand...

Might as well just buy a PC and console and use the console for online gaming. That's probably gonna be my plan going forward. PS4 Neo as my main platform and a mid-range PC for Windows Store exclusives, Steam, PC exclusives and games that general run poorly on console(looking at you Bethesda).

Seems like the best solution to getting access to the most games.
 
You're out of your damn mind if you think Microsoft will drop Xbox Live subscriptions. You don't leave billions of dollars on the table as a business.

They care about money, not winning "console wars" online.
 
Wagram said:
You're out of your damn mind if you think Microsoft will drop Xbox Live subscriptions. You don't leave billions of dollars on the table as a business.

They care about money, not winning "console wars" online.
Click to expand...

Totally, and I have zero problem with it. 1year cost me £23 on eBay and I get 4 games a month in compensation.
 
Samurai G0SU said:
I really do believe if phil asked natella for ms to eat a little bit of money on this device, he would say yes.

I feel a heavy focus is on xbox. Considering the recent confrences from ms. If they play it safe, perhaps he is not the real.... Xboss...

*que sad music here
Click to expand...
I really don't think Nadella wants to waste money on xbox that was made clear by the fact that he pretty much got rid of most of xbox Europe when he came in with that restructuring. However, considering that devices are doing well he might not care if the loss is not that great.

I can completely see them releasing an Mac mini or mac pro type device with ease though.
 
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