• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Dragon Ball Super |OT2| June 12: Judgment Day

Status
Not open for further replies.
Were we ever given a time period of when the pilaf gang got turned into kids? If this happened whilst trunks was still young, potentially Piccolo might not HAve been killed yet, they probably wanted to do the trunksxmai relationship like Originally planned and decided to do it with future trunks as they might not have super go so far in time skips as to make it have meaning

That's like trying to make sense of how Tapion giving young Trunks his sword in a non canon movie is somehow an explanation for Mirai having the sword...

Its just weird and doesn't make sense
 
That's like trying to make sense of how Tapion giving young Trunks his sword in a non canon movie is somehow an explanation for Mirai having the sword...

Its just weird and doesn't make sense

But Tapion always made sense.

1) the bad guy traveled galaxies, he could have found Namek easily

2) Tapion's music box was on earth so he still had to go there even if it got opened by namek's dragon balls

3) We see in the movie, that if they couldn't defeat Hildegarn, Trunks had to kill Tapion. Which he was about to do to save the world before Goku went ssj3. It's implied that in Trunks' future, he did kill Tapion because they were too weak to fight Hildegarn. Which also explains why Tapion didn't help Trunks defeat the androids.
 
That's like trying to make sense of how Tapion giving young Trunks his sword in a non canon movie is somehow an explanation for Mirai having the sword...

Its just weird and doesn't make sense

This was never going to make sense. Toriyama only knows how to ratchet up the crazy.

I'm just sticking around to see if something cool happens.
 
That's like trying to make sense of how Tapion giving young Trunks his sword in a non canon movie is somehow an explanation for Mirai having the sword...

Its just weird and doesn't make sense

what is hard to understand about the Pilaf gang wishing themselves younger before Piccolo was killed by the androids, we don't know when they made that wish. It doesn't even have to be that, for all we know that's some Mai from yet another timeline that ended up in Future Trunks world thanks to whatever Black Goku is doing.
 
That's like trying to make sense of how Tapion giving young Trunks his sword in a non canon movie is somehow an explanation for Mirai having the sword...

Its just weird and doesn't make sense

And also, NeonZ answered you.

Stop trying to pretend it doesn't make sense when you're not even trying to understand.
 
But Tapion always made sense.

1) the bad guy traveled galaxies, he could have found Namek easily

2) Tapion's music box was on earth so he still had to go there even if it got opened by namek's dragon balls

3) We see in the movie, that if they couldn't defeat Hildegarn, Trunks had to kill Tapion. Which he was about to do to save the world before Goku went ssj3. It's implied that in Trunks' future, he did kill Tapion because they were too weak to fight Hildegarn. Which also explains why Tapion didn't help Trunks defeat the androids.

So...so your saying that movie 13 was always canon? So were all the other movies canon when they literally could not be at the times they were placed in the storyline?

Is broly going to show up and start destroying shit cause he can't stay dead?

Is Garlic jr gonna randomly come out of the Dead zone and wreak havoc again!?

Is Dr Whillo(Wheelo, whatever), super mutant secret creations that were never alluded to ever gonna come back and start wrecking?

Will Cooler find yet another conveniently placed biological robo-space parasite to take control of?

This was never going to make sense. Toriyama only knows how to ratchet up the crazy.

I'm just sticking around to see if something cool happens.

I guess....it just comes off as lazy and too transparently cynical of a cash grab to me. GT in terms of storyline was atleast preferable for being consistent with previous mechanics and lore as well as having a decent new super saiyan design.

I don't take well to 'super saiyan+ add different color'

This new arc of bringing trunks back seemed like it could have atleast been interesting, but right off the bat it makes no sense to me...hopefully there are atleast some explanations somewhere
 
Dragon Ball making sense? Talk about unrealistic expectations.

And also, NeonZ answered you.

Stop trying to pretend it doesn't make sense when you're not even trying to understand.

I'm not pretending it doesn't make sense, it literally doesn't. Just because its Dragonball and is going to rake in the cash doesn't mean it can't atleast try to stay consistent with previous established things, like everyone in Trunks time being dead, no Mai or anybody else to be seen, and Trunks hair being a specific color.

I mean, yeah, Dragonball has always never cared about the minute details, and its been fine like that, but there's a limit you have to atleast not cross and its been crossed
 
I'm not pretending it doesn't make sense, it literally doesn't. Just because its Dragonball and is going to rake in the cash doesn't mean it can't atleast try to stay consistent with previous established things, like everyone in Trunks time being dead, no Mai or anybody else to be seen, and Trunks hair being a specific color.

I mean, yeah, Dragonball has always never cared about the minute details, and its been fine like that, but there's a limit you have to atleast not cross and its been crossed

Not everyone was killed in the future timeline though.
 
I guess....it just comes off as lazy and too transparently cynical of a cash grab to me. GT in terms of storyline was atleast preferable for being consistent with previous mechanics and lore as well as having a decent new super saiyan design.

I don't take well to 'super saiyan+ add different color'

This new arc of bringing trunks back seemed like it could have atleast been interesting, but right off the bat it makes no sense to me...hopefully there are atleast some explanations somewhere

Well, I don't take too well to any of the super saiyan forms past SS2. I'll take the simpler design.

Time travel's being reintroduced which leaves a lot more wiggle room for explanations. I like seeing a classic character back. She looks cool standing next to Trunks with a gun.
 
I guess....it just comes off as lazy and too transparently cynical of a cash grab to me. GT in terms of storyline was atleast preferable for being consistent with previous mechanics and lore as well as having a decent new super saiyan design.

GT had the characters knowing the ki of #19 and #17, even though androids couldn't be sensed in Z. It had Goku randomly using a technique from Movie 13. It had a Goku who ordered people to give energy to him rather than attempting to fight uselessly (Something I could never forgive it for. If you're going to give so much focus to Goku, don't miss his personality that badly).

It couldn't even remember how strong some of its characters were supposed to be (like how Uub somehow goes from above SSJ3 Goku level in the Baby Saga to barely above Goten/Trunks level when facing Super 17, and then is stated to be weaker than them in the final arc). Super sometimes has some pretty weak excuses for power ups, like Tagoma's and Freeza's training, but at least they realize that they're changing established power levels.

This new arc of bringing trunks back seemed like it could have atleast been interesting, but right off the bat it makes no sense to me...hopefully there are atleast some explanations somewhere

The arc hasn't even started yet though, obviously there wouldn't be explanation about the new plot elements at this point.

Also, as far as Trunks' hair go, it's also an inconsistency created by the original anime. Toriyama had both Bulma and Trunks with purple hair during most of the original run of the manga, while the anime gave blue hair to Bulma. In his modern work though, which was made with the anime in mind, he changed Trunks' hair to blue to match Bulma's - although, before this new arc, they always kept it purple in the actual animation. It shows that from Toriyama's point of view, what's important here is that both Bulma and Trunks should have the same hair color, so that's the consistency he's attempting to keep. Now, I don't know why the anime staff finally decided to make Trunks' hair blue too, but it's not a random inconsistency.

I'm not pretending it doesn't make sense, it literally doesn't. Just because its Dragonball and is going to rake in the cash doesn't mean it can't atleast try to stay consistent with previous established things, like everyone in Trunks time being dead, no Mai or anybody else to be seen, and Trunks hair being a specific color.
There were still surviving humans in Trunks' future. You're talking like any survivors popping up would be a plothole, which is just silly. As long as they aren't stated to be dead, I don't see why existing characters appearing is a plothole. IIRC, the anime version of the Trunks special shows that Roshi and Oolong survived too.
 
Who is mirai?

Its been a long time since i've interacted with DBZ fandom. In the late 90s(very early 2000s), that's what 'future trunks' was called online by and large, so i guess it just stuck with me.

GT had the characters knowing the ki of #19 and #17, even though androids couldn't be sensed in Z. It had Goku randomly using a technique from Movie 13. It had a Goku who ordered people to give energy to him rather than attempting to fight uselessly (Something I could never forgive it for. If you're going to give so much focus to Goku, don't miss his personality that badly).

Is it any better than a cocky Goku in the new story who didn't take an opponent who looked strong seriously and proceeded to get his ass kicked even though he never would have ever done that(beerus)? Even at Super Saiyan 3, that still makes no sense to me whatsoever.

He never did that with Buu or anybody else. I could not even believe Toriyama had written that.

Not everyone was killed in the future timeline though.

There were still surviving humans in Trunks' future. You're talking like any survivors popping up would be a plothole, which is just silly. IIRC, the anime version of the Trunks special shows Roshi and Oolong having survived.

We're bringing the TV specials into it? I know humans survived, they obviously would have had to(and yes i know about roshi and oolong in the sub). But bringing Mai back and having Mirai's timeline conform to the new Super timeline instead of it just following the original canon DBZ makes no sense.

Why do it like that...
 
The reason Trunks' hair is blue is because that's not Trunks, we're all in for a MGS-style twist and that's actually
Future Bra pretending to be Trunks from another timeline where Vegeta didn't die
 
The reason Trunks' hair is blue is because that's not Trunks, we're all in for a MGS-style twist and that's actually
Future Bra

Didn't they also retcon the ending of DBZ entirely somehow with no Bra, no sign of Uub, yet Pan exists?

I mean, that took place years after Buu, but all we know from Super is that takes place some time after Buu itself...are they really going to try and cram the entirety of Super into the time period before the ending of Z or are they just saying fuck it and retconning that too?

I wonder if "Z" itself is just another alternate timeline and this 'super' timeline is just another timeline born out of that like i guess they are also considering GT.

In that case, every series from now on will be an alternate timeline where different shit happens i guess, since in the original Dragonball timeline(mirai), everyone important died except Trunks and Bulma
 
We're bringing the TV specials into it? I know humans survived, they obviously would have had to(and yes i know about roshi and oolong in the sub). But bringing Mai back and having Mirai's timeline conform to the new Super timeline instead of it just following the original canon DBZ makes no sense.

Why do it like that...

We're bringing anime into this now? :P

No, but seriously, the part of this that doesn't "follow the original canon" is Mai looking as young as she does in Future Trunks' timeline. There might be a reason we don't know yet.

Could you tell me what about this doesn't follow the original canon?

Didn't they also retcon the ending of DBZ entirely somehow with no Bra, no sign of Uub, yet Pan exists?

I mean, that took place years after Buu, but all we know from Super is that takes place some time after Buu itself...are they really going to try and cram the entirety of Super into the time period before the ending of Z or are they just saying fuck it and retconning that too?

I wonder if "Z" itself is just another alternate timeline and this 'super' timeline is just another timeline born out of that like i guess they are also considering GT.

In that case, every series from now on will be an alternate timeline where different shit happens i guess, since in the original Dragonball timeline(mirai), everyone important died except Trunks and Bulma

Nope, Uub has been stated to have been born. The only inconsistency is Bra.

Also "mirai" is not even the original timeline, since there's at least two other time-travelling Trunks somewhen.
 
Didn't they also retcon the ending of DBZ entirely somehow with no Bra, no sign of Uub, yet Pan exists?

I mean, that took place years after Buu, but all we know from Super is that takes place some time after Buu itself...are they really going to try and cram the entirety of Super into the time period before the ending of Z or are they just saying fuck it and retconning that too?

I wonder if "Z" itself is just another alternate timeline and this 'super' timeline is just another timeline born out of that like i guess they are also considering GT.

i was joking

and Uub has been mentioned as having been born, no sign of Bra yet
 
Is it any better than a cocky Goku in the new story who didn't take an opponent who looked strong seriously and proceeded to get his ass kicked even though he never would have ever done that(beerus)? Even at Super Saiyan 3, that still makes no sense to me whatsoever.

He never did that with Buu or anybody else. I could not even believe Toriyama had written that.

He couldn't sense his ki, and all other gods that he had seen were much weaker a SSJ2. He underestimates Dabura although it wouldn't matter much either way (he initially says that Cell was stronger than him, so he was nothing to worry about, but corrects himself later, placing him above Cell, but still considering him weak compared to his current level).

He wasn't really underestimating Beerus by the time he went SSJ3. He just didn't think that he'd be on a completely different level.

We're bringing the TV specials into it? I know humans survived, they obviously would have had to(and yes i know about roshi and oolong in the sub). But bringing Mai back and having Mirai's timeline conform to the new Super timeline instead of it just following the original canon DBZ makes no sense.

The Trunks special was based on a manga chapter, although the submarine scene was anime-only. Anyway, they're all the same canon. So obviously if Super retcons something to take place before the timeline split, it'd be true in Trunks' timeline too. Of course, we don't know if that's the case yet or if there will be some other explanation for a young Mai in Trunks' future, which is what makes your complaint here all the more odd. You're complaining about plotholes based on a promo artwork, which makes it seem more like you're just complaining about the idea itself, considering how the show hasn't even had the chance to introduce and explain its story yet. Mai's role in the story hasn't even been mentioned in any of the text material, which just have confirmed that it's really Mai.
 
We're bringing anime into this now? :P

No, but seriously, the part of this that doesn't "follow the original canon" is Mai looking as young as she does in Future Trunks' timeline. There might be a reason we don't know yet.

Could you tell me what about this doesn't follow the original canon?

You....you mean this specific Trunks arc or Super itself, cause the latter is too much for me to get into.

If your talking about Trunks timeline, bringing Mai, who was never even alluded to anywhere in the original Trunks timeline in the 90s back with him just cause of a weird thing happened in the modern movies that followed after that would be not following canon IMO.

Atleast keep Mai in the 'present time' where all this super stuff is happening away from serious Trunks.

Nope, Uub has been stated to have been born. The only inconsistency is Bra.

Also "mirai" is not even the original timeline, since there's at least two other time-travelling Trunks somewhen.

I've talked with my friends about this for hours.

The conclusion we came to is that time travel in DBZ MAKES NO SENSE and will just serve to make your head hurt.
 
If your talking about Trunks timeline, bringing Mai, who was never even alluded to anywhere in the original Trunks timeline in the 90s back with him just cause of a weird thing happened in the modern movies that followed after that would be not following canon IMO.

Unless you can find a panel in the DB manga that states Mai is dead in Trunks' future this doesn't contradict anything.
 
You know what would be cool about Turles? If he came in that universe, no Goku to stop him, and his tree conquests the world so the fruits make him some god level lol. But i think its just Goku, turned evil by something, or his body was found by Red ribbon army and he is an android now lol
 
Unless you can find a panel in the DB manga that states Mai is dead in Trunks' future this doesn't contradict anything.

Your a good guy, but that's just not the case.

Young Mai even existing in this timeline instead of being an old woman, or not being dead given how old she is supposed to technically be at this point, is going to contradict the hell out of everything.

And, if their explanation is going to be 'at one time pilaf did a thing and she became young for some reason, who cares just go with it, we wanted Mai of all people with Trunks from now on to link up to the events of Super' , fine. But that's..just...dumb.
 
Your a good guy, but that's just not the case.

Young Mai even existing in this timeline instead of being an old woman, or not being dead given how old she is supposed to technically be at this point, is going to contradict the hell out of everything.

And, if their explanation is going to be 'at one time pilaf did a thing and she became young for some reason, who cares just go with it, we wanted Mai of all people with Trunks from now on to link up to the events of Super' , fine. But that's..just...dumb.

But that's the same exact reasoning for mai being young in the current timeline. There's not much of a difference
 
Your a good guy, but that's just not the case.

Young Mai even existing in this timeline instead of being an old woman, or not being dead given how old she is supposed to technically be at this point, is going to contradict the hell out of everything.

And, if their explanation is going to be 'at one time pilaf did a thing and she became young for some reason, who cares just go with it, we wanted Mai of all people with Trunks from now on to link up to the events of Super' , fine. But that's..just...dumb.

It doesn't contradict anything lol. In the main timeline she wished herself young. All this means is that she did that in Trunks' timeline too.

It's fine to think it's dumb but it's not breaking any established information. Mai doesn't appear in any of the "Z" portion of the manga, Toriyama can literally do whatever the hell he wants with her without disrupting anything.
 
You....you mean this specific Trunks arc or Super itself, cause the latter is too much for me to get into.

If your talking about Trunks timeline, bringing Mai, who was never even alluded to anywhere in the original Trunks timeline in the 90s back with him just cause of a weird thing happened in the modern movies that followed after that would be not following canon IMO.

Atleast keep Mai in the 'present time' where all this super stuff is happening away from serious Trunks.
Something that was never explicitly stated to not happen happening does not contradict previous non-statements of things not happening.

I've talked with my friends about this for hours.

The conclusion we came to is that time travel in DBZ MAKES NO SENSE and will just serve to make your head hurt.

1VjvzIl.png
 
Other Z is screwed when Majin Buu shows up
 
It doesn't contradict anything lol. In the main timeline she wished herself young. All this means is that she did that in Trunks' timeline too.

It's fine to think it's dumb but it's not breaking any established information. Mai doesn't appear in any of the "Z" portion of the manga, Toriyama can literally do whatever the hell he wants with her without disrupting anything.

I guess in the end, that's what i'm saying. Yes. Mai showing up here in the future world is dumb. Her being brought back into the story as comic relief in the current timeline though a dumb wish, is dumb. Gohan being a nerd, is dumb. -sigh-

I would have taken something way more interesting, like Bulma or Chichi being wished into saiyans or something, and becoming apart of the Z fighters...or having Videl continue her training somehow and being stronger.

I always felt the female fighters were never given a real chance for anything and turned into basic comic relief, which was more than a shame. Even 18, who was the strongest female in the series was hardly anything
 
I guess in the end, that's what i'm saying. Yes. Mai showing up here in the future world is dumb. Her being brought back into the story as comic relief in the current timeline though a dumb wish, is dumb. Gohan being a nerd, is dumb. -sigh-

I would have taken something way more interesting, like Bulma or Chichi being wished into saiyans or something, and becoming apart of the Z fighters...or having Videl continue her training somehow and being stronger.

I always felt the female fighters were never given a real chance for anything and turned into basic comic relief, which was more than a shame. Even 18, who was the strongest female in the series was hardly anything

man say that from the beginning instead of going on with this contradiction nonsense, you can think its dumb all you want, it doesn't make it a contradiction.
 
Bad writing yes, contradiction no.

I'm not happy about it either, and still hoping that there's a better explanation than that she wished herself young again. If the blue hair isn't explained either it'll be equally as bad.
 
man say that from the beginning instead of going on with this contradiction nonsense, you can think its dumb all you want, it doesn't make it a contradiction.

Bad writing yes, contradiction no.

I'm not happy about it either, and still hoping that there's a better explanation than that she wished herself young again. If the blue hair isn't explained either it'll be equally as bad.

Although i still feel there were a lot of retcons in place(Bra ect) and contradictory stuff, the bad writing is by far the worst offense.

Not that DB of all things ever had good writing, or needed to really, but it was fairly straight forward and in your face, to the point that you didn't really think about those bad spots that didn't make sense. Stuff happened and you went with it
 
Although i still feel there were a lot of retcons in place(Bra ect) and contradictory stuff, the bad writing is by far the worst offense.

Not that DB of all things ever had good writing, or needed to really, but it was fairly straight forward and in your face, to the point that you didn't really think about those bad spots that didn't make sense. Stuff happened and you went with it
Super hasn't been all bad. In fact, the stuff with Cabba, Frost, Planet Sarada and Vegeta's interest in it was all very good. As was the Uub tease in the last arc.
 
Bad writing yes, contradiction no.

I'm not happy about it either, and still hoping that there's a better explanation than that she wished herself young again. If the blue hair isn't explained either it'll be equally as bad.

I wouldnt even call it bad writing either, as far as we know future trunk's universe basically functioned the same as the main one except for small changes here or there that may have led to bigger consequences.
There's nothing awful about a event happening in the main timeline also possibly happening in another.
 
I still think this guy is the best part of GT

180


Sick powerup, great costume

I really like the Golden Oozaru myself, but that's about it for GT lol. I used to like SSJ4, but find it really ugly and garish now. I don't like the coloring on that transformation at all.
 
SSB is way better with the sick plasma like aura.

SSB really grew on me. I love it now, despite not liking it initially. Just gave me Toriko vibes that I didn't dig. But now I actually love Toriko hahaha, so that's not so bad!

Vegeta especially rocks the shit outta that blue. Color looks great on him.
 
I haven't watched any of Super, but reading a little bit about the Universe Tournament and the upcoming Trunks arc makes me want to jump in.

Loving Trunks new design by the way.

If you want to jump in the quickest way is to watch the movies Battle of Gods and Resurrection F and then start Super on episode 28.

This.

Also new episode preview today!
I really hope there is some good GIF material in the NEP (or even in the actual episode today...)
I miss making GIFs already after having been spoiled by some really good looking episodes.
I also would love a good shot of Goku Black for the next OT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom