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[anothertech]

Wow. Scorpio gonna change global warming now up in here

Seriously tho guys, even tho I'm getting Scorpio day one, we gotta chill with the expectations. Years old games aren't going to get 1080p/60 patches unless it's something with a huge player base still. Doesn't matter how simple the patches are, it just won't happen.

 

[El_Chino]

Wow. Scorpio gonna change global warming now up in here

Seriously tho guys, even tho I'm getting Scorpio day one, we gotta chill with the expectations. Years old games aren't going to get 1080p/60 patches unless it's something with a huge player base still. Doesn't matter how simple the patches are, it just won't happen.

My prediction for Scorpio pacthes.
1.) Halo 5
2.) Destiny
3.) Call of Duty
4.) Forza
5.) Major Sport titles
6.) The Division
7.) Fallout4
8.) Quantum Break
9.) The Witcher 3
10.) Battlefield 1
11.) Titanfall 2

 

[Bitch Pudding]

This is gonna be the most boring e3 if neo and scorpio wont be there.

Since nx is already gonna pass too.

games >> hardware

 

[Tripolygon]

I would argue that you by using a verifiable statement, it is no longer an opinion.

I.e. It is my opinion that 1 + 1 = 2.

But the above is just my opinion of how opinions should be used.

Yea 1+1=2 is not an opinion, its a known fact. Now if you said it is your opinion that 1+1=3. You will certainly be wrong.

 

[El_Chino]

Yea 1+1=2 is not an opinion, its a known fact. Now if you said it is your opinion that 1+1=3. You will certainly be wrong.

He must have the inside scoop.

 

[RichiRamjag]

My prediction for Scorpio pacthes.
1.) Halo 5
2.) Destiny
3.) Call of Duty
4.) Forza
5.) Major Sport titles
6.) The Division
7.) Fallout4
8.) Quantum Break
9.) The Witcher 3
10.) Battlefield 1
11.) Titanfall 2

I'd agree with all of those cept fallout. That's how little faith I have in Bethesda now lol.

 

[...Scatter...]

we'll have to wait and see. I'm sure it won't be a huge effort but I also don't expect a ton of devs to patch old games

The big ones will so they can keep selling. GTA, Overwatch, Destiny, etc. Smaller titles maybe not.

 

[El_Chino]

I'd agree with all of those cept fallout. That's how little faith I have in Bethesda now lol.

Benefit of the doubt and whatnot haha

 

[SneakersSO]

Yea, but those patches will likely be fairly trivial for devs to create. I don't see it being this heavy lift for developers, so the end result will likely still be the same as if the benefits were automatic. You know there's no way Microsoft is going to release a more powerful system that plays all Xbox One games right out the box and not make it easy for developers to enhance their old titles.

Heavy lift? no. Inconvenient? Unnecessary? Absolutely.

And no, even with UWP/UWA, its no where near as non-trivial as you are making it out to be.

 

[icespide]

That's a pretty high percent.. Because Sony already said the neo can and most likely will.

Sony literally hasn't ever mentioned the Neo ever

 

[anothertech]

Sony literally hasn't ever mentioned the Neo ever

Ya where is that sentiment coming from? Neither Sony nor MS have said anything officially about these as far as I know right?

And we're arguing patch development complications. lol

 

[Wagram]

So are Sony and Microsoft going to do this thing where each year one trumps the other in power and then touts about it for 12 months?

 

[nekkid]

I know I might be over-simplifying things, but if Scorpio has full BC then might it be the case for games like Halo 5 that it just sees and uses the extra headroom to ensure the variable resolution hits the upper limit all the time/more often without having to patch it in?

 

[T-0800]

So are Sony and Microsoft going to do this thing where each year one trumps the other in power and then touts about it for 12 months?

More like every 3 years.

 

[Proelite]

I know I might be over-simplifying things, but if Scorpio has full BC then might it be the case for games like Halo 5 that it just sees and uses the extra headroom to ensure the variable resolution hits the upper limit all the time/more often without having to patch it in?

Possible. Depends on how whether or not BC is emulated, whether or no the title VM allows it, and how the Halo codebase is coded.

If the Halo code has static constants configured to XB1 specs, then nope.

 

[HCgamer]

I'm so glad I held off on buying a ps4 or xbone.

 

[anothertech]

One thing that is great about these jumps in hardware, our consoles are going to be pretty cutting edge performance wise for the price. Will be nice to see devs get to utilize much higher settings in games again.

Will be great for PC gaming as well, with the consoles closer in GPU power, and iterating so often.

Honestly, consol gens were getting way too long with how fast tech was progressing in the last couple decades.

 

[dragonelite]

No one is talking about magic here.

But resolution bump and a more stable frame rate is not impossible.

You already have emulator that can override a games programmed resolution.
If im not mistaken years ago i have seen mario galaxy rendering at 1080p

The way how xbox one games are run from a GameOs that goes through a
hypervisor that controls the hardware. The are probably already there for scorpio.

Either take over the backbuffer calls and override them to 1080p if the dev won't do it.
Or let the dev optionally patch the game to fine tune some of the performance.

 

[anothertech]

I'm so glad I held off on buying a ps4 or xbone.

Ya? Well if you hold off on the Neo/Scorpio, it will only be a couple years till the Ps5/Scorpio2 come out!

But if you hold off in those, it will be only a couple years till Ps6/Scorpio3 comes out!

But if you...

 

[c0de]

I know I might be over-simplifying things, but if Scorpio has full BC then might it be the case for games like Halo 5 that it just sees and uses the extra headroom to ensure the variable resolution hits the upper limit all the time/more often without having to patch it in?

This depends on how the game is actually coded. But it could be, yes. The question is what metric halo uses to measure load to adjust the resolution.

 

[c0de]

Possible. Depends on how whether or not BC is emulated, whether or no the title VM allows it, and how the Halo codebase is coded.

If the Halo code has static constants configured to XB1 specs, then nope.

I don't think there is any emulation involved.

 

[rokkerkory]

games >> hardware

Games on new hardware >>> games >>> hardware

 

[c0de]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Scorpio will NOT be using GDDR3, edram,
hybrid memory cube tech, have legacy xb1 games run at higher res and higher fps without patches, etc. etc.

I can also tell you with 100% certainty that AAA Scorpio games not be programmed with Java or Swift or Objective C.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Scorpio games and Win 10 will share more codebase and process than any console generation and Windows did.

My above statements are not opinions. Sooner or later I'll be able to prove them.



Probably not. But you port to make millions. What's the point of patching?

but these are not facts but hypothesis.
Also you are most likely not able to prove that a game doesn't use objective c as for that you would have to know the code for every single game that will be released and show that it doesn't use that language.

 

[Proelite]

Also you are most likely not able to prove that a game doesn't use objective c as for that you would have to know the code for every single game that will be released and show that it doesn't use that language.

Or just look up the supported programming languages in the SDK. Guaranteed no objective C. No pascal either.

 

[Hawk269]

MS will have some of the bigger games with patches for some improvement. I also believe that MS will go to some 3rd parties and request/fund patches for some of the bigger games. I think they almost have to do this to show people why they should upgrade or get a Scorpio. I think Sony will be doing the same thing as well with the Neo.

 

[c0de]

Or just look up the supported programming languages in the SDK. Guaranteed no objective C. No pascal either.

Oh yes, just look at the publicly available SDK out there. I mean, what? You can use whatever you want to write game code. in the end, it will be code compatible to the processor. you want to do the ai in lua?Do so. It would be insane if Sony and MS would limit devs to use only specific languages for everything.
but it seems you have access to the sdks so enlighten us with the set of supported languages.

 

[Proelite]

Oh yes, just look at the publicly available SDK out there. I mean, what? You can use whatever you want to write game code. in the end, it will be code compatible to the processor. you want to do the ai in lua?Do so. It would be insane if Sony and MS would limit devs to use only specific languages for everything.
but it seems you have access to the sdks so enlighten us with the set of supported languages.

Just saying no one will make a published Xb1 game with objective C. And the Sdk will not have objective C support.

I can say the above with the same certainty as saying Scorpio will not have a coffee maker built in.

I dont have the SDK access, so I can't prove it. Same way i cant prove that Scorpio won't have a coffee maker built in.

You name the stakes if you want a wager.

 

[icespide]

The big ones will so they can keep selling. GTA, Overwatch, Destiny, etc. Smaller titles maybe not.

GTA could patch in worse graphics and it would keep selling

 

[...Scatter...]

Games on new hardware >>> games >>> hardware

This man spits truth

 

[nekkid]

Possible. Depends on how whether or not BC is emulated, whether or no the title VM allows it, and how the Halo codebase is coded.

If the Halo code has static constants configured to XB1 specs, then nope.

This depends on how the game is actually coded. But it could be, yes. The question is what metric halo uses to measure load to adjust the resolution.

It feels like where games have some variability in performance, such as variable resolution or inconsistent frame rate, that the extra performance would take minimal effort on the part of the devs to utilise via a patch.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Heavy lift? no. Inconvenient? Unnecessary? Absolutely.

And no, even with UWP/UWA, its no where near as non-trivial as you are making it out to be.

It's pretty much a certainty Microsoft will make tools available to do this, and I strongly bet it will be fairly trivial when all is said and done. The new xbox, if rumored specs are accurate, will be a big enough power boost over Xbox One to brute force most enhancements without very much having to be re-architected. Then again, there may be some instances where certain games are simply designed in such a way where it isn't so simple a thing to do.

At any rate, I imagine it should be a lot easier with newer Xbox One titles, because maybe they were designed more in line with the UWP blueprint that Microsoft has put in place.

Just saying no one will make a published Xb1 game with objective C. And the Sdk will not have objective C support.

I can say the above with the same certainty as saying Scorpio will not have a coffee maker built in.

I dont have the SDK access, so I can't prove it.

You name the stakes if you want a wager.

Okay, you've said a lot, and I've let most of it slide, but I refuse to believe this. Where is your evidence? Present it sir.

 

[c0de]

Just saying no one will make a published Xb1 game with objective C. And the Sdk will not have objective C support.

I can say the above with the same certainty as saying Scorpio will not have a coffee maker built in.

I dont have the SDK access, so I can't prove it.

You name the stakes if you want a wager.

I still don't know what you mean. What exactly is a game published with objective c? you don't ship a game with a programming language.
Also google for cryengine and lua.
I think you have a certain misunderstanding how writing and compiling code works and what languages are for.

 

[icespide]

I still don't know what you mean. What exactly is a game published with objective c? you don't ship a game with a programming language.
Also google for cryengine and lua.
I think you have a certain misunderstanding how writing and compiling code works and what languages are for.

there's a lot of that in here

 

[c0de]

It feels like where games have some variability in performance, such as variable resolution or inconsistent frame rate, that the extra performance would take minimal effort on the part of the devs to utilise via a patch.

Sure, with patches you can do almost everything

 

[Proelite]

I still don't know what you mean. What exactly is a game published with objective c? you don't ship a game with a programming language.
Also google for cryengine and lua.

Game written in objective C and then compiled into machine code.

There won't be a game written in object C and subsequently shipped on Scorpio. Nor will the SDK for Scorpio have support for Objective C, in the same way that any of the various Android SDK don't have support for Objective C. We can wager on this if you want.

Of course one can always write his / her own translator and translate logic from Objective C to C++. But then you'll need to take care of API calls. A massive waste of time for more inefficient code.

I think you have a certain misunderstanding how writing and compiling code works and what languages are for.

I am professional Android developer. I know as much about that as I need to in order for me to program and ship apps.

 

[Paz]

I know for a fact bits of XBone games have been written in the D language, this conversation about what is/isn't used and the relation to SDK's is so confusing.

Also it hurts my head to read people talk about what will be easy and what will be automatic for games running on whatever Scorpio could be, but I don't even know where I would begin to reply individually to that stuff.

Sure you can argue that just about anything is possible under the right circumstances but the likely realities are so far removed from the way people seem to think software development works it's just absurd.

 

[SwolBro]

I'm so glad I held off on buying a ps4 or xbone.

it's going to be tough to hold off considering all the games coming out this fall. some really good games. hopefully you have a PC.

My prediction for Scorpio pacthes.
1.) Halo 5
2.) Destiny
3.) Call of Duty
4.) Forza
5.) Major Sport titles
6.) The Division
7.) Fallout4
8.) Quantum Break
9.) The Witcher 3
10.) Battlefield 1
11.) Titanfall 2

If Titanfall 2 and Overwatch don't get some type of patch for Scorprio then i can't see myself purchasing it in 2017.

What's really going to make people upgrade to these new consoles? a new COD? It's possible Destiny 2 comes out for these new machines but it better update some of these titles if they want to sell because just Destiny and a new COD aren't enough.

 

[c0de]

Game written in objective C and then compiled into machine code.

There won't be a game written in object C and subsequently shipped on Scorpio. We can wager on this if you want.

Of course one can always write his / her own translator and translate logic from Objective C to C++. But then you'll need to take care of API calls. A massive waste of time for more inefficient code.

What? Game code is written in various languages (see the lua example). Software communicates via interfaces and not via "languages". If it compiles and is binary compatible and compatible with your written interfaces, you are not limited to certain languages. This does not mean you can use all the APIs via every language out there, though. But games do more than just call APIs from the SDK.

I am professional Android developer. I know as much about that as I need to in order for me to program and ship apps.

Sorry but that doesn't put a good image on Android developers. I don't doubt that you do so but this doesn't negate the discussion we have.

 

[Proelite]

What? Game code is written in various languages (see the lua example). Software communicates via interfaces and not via "languages". If it compiles and is binary compatible and compatible with your written interfaces, you are not limited to certain languages. This does not mean you can use all the APIs via every language out there, though. But games do more than just call APIs from the SDK.

That's not what I said. I said no Scorpio game will be shipped with code written in Objective C and that the Scorpio SDK, which includes IDE, compiler, etc won't have objective C support.
If you're confident enough to wager conversely, then say so.

I don't think we have a difference of opinions on anything here.

 

[c0de]

That's not what I said. I said no Scorpio game will be shipped with code written in Objective C and that the Scorpio SDK, which includes IDE, compiler, etc won't have objective C support.
If you're confident enough to wager conversely, then say so.

I will leave it at that, proelite.
You are the one that makes bold statements and builds up hypothesis in this thread since many posts and there is nothing that proves your statements. You are trying to argue with common sense in a way that it's getting off (won't make coffee) to make it look parallel to what you are also saying while this is something completely different.
Also you are still ignoring other facettes of the discussion while still hanging on the "no Scorpio game will be shipped with code written in Objective C" while this is not the topic at all.
The only thing that happens with that discussion is that people won't listen to you in the future.

 

[Proelite]

The only thing that happens with that discussion is that people won't listen to you in the future.

Maybe or maybe not. I have no way of knowing that, nor do I care. That's no consequence or result that impacts me.

If you want be results oriented, then a wager makes sense. But I don't think we're disagreeing on what I want to wager on.

 

[anothertech]

It's pretty much a certainty Microsoft will make tools available to do this, and I strongly bet it will be fairly trivial when all is said and done. The new xbox, if rumored specs are accurate, will be a big enough power boost over Xbox One to brute force most enhancements without very much having to be re-architected. Then again, there may be some instances where certain games are simply designed in such a way where it isn't so simple a thing to do

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with 'tools' no matter how trivial.

These companies have to spend resources on any kind of patch in question. That's just Somthing no one will do unless there is a current decent sized player base attached.

For most games, the fabled '1080/60' patch is just a pipe dream. Sorry to say.

 

[ninjablade]

Unfortunately it has nothing to do with 'tools' no matter how trivial.

These companies have to spend resources on any kind of patch in question. That's just Somthing no one will do unless there is a current decent sized player base attached.

For most games, the fabled '1080/60' patch is just a pipe dream. Sorry to say.

i wish they would sell it, i would gladly pay 5$ for a patch like that.

 

[darkinstinct]

That's a pretty high percent.. Because Sony already said the neo can and most likely will.

The leaked docs state that every game has to be patched to take advantage of Neo's enhanced power, nothing will just run faster.

 

[c0de]

The leaked docs state that every game has to be patched to take advantage of Neo's enhanced power, nothing will just run faster.

Which leaked docs?

 

[nekkid]

The leaked docs state that every game has to be patched to take advantage of Neo's enhanced power, nothing will just run faster.

How is that even possible to evaluate? By pixel-counting, frame rate monitoring, blade of grass counting both versions of every single game that goes through certification? Sounds entirely unrealistic to (a) impose that demand upon all developers, and (b) check that it has been done.

 

[Proelite]

The leaked docs state that every game has to be patched to take advantage of Neo's enhanced power, nothing will just run faster.

umm, I don't remember seeing that?

Legally and technically that's not even feasible. Forcing devs to patch their old games.

 

[mrklaw]

So are Sony and Microsoft going to do this thing where each year one trumps the other in power and then touts about it for 12 months?

like plenty of other industries too.

It does mean there is never a fixed hardware target so any 'woot we're the best' rhetoric is only ever transient as the other team will be out in a year or two with something bigger and better.

Maybe fewer console willy waving wars?

 

[Paz]

How is that even possible to evaluate? By pixel-counting, frame rate monitoring, blade of grass counting both versions of every single game that goes through certification? Sounds entirely unrealistic to (a) impose that demand upon all developers, and (b) check that it has been done.

I think they mean 'would have to be', not 'has to be'.

 

[nekkid]

I think they mean 'would have to be', not 'has to be'.

Oh I see. Yeah, that makes more sense.