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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]

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READ: Official ISIS Statement on Orlando Terror Attack by Amaq News Agency

statement.jpg


This is from ISIS' own news agency.
 
MihowZa said:
Well I'm sick and tired of yours. That doesn't make you correct and it doesn't make me correct. You skipped over the part where it is an American right to own a gun. You can't take away rights to make yourself feel good. This is what your side constantly says about 'the right' but you want to do the same.
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Do you think the founding fathers would've envisioned assault rifles along with whatever crappy shit passed for "arms" back then? Even still, we limit exactly what an "arm" is. You can't just got to a store and buy a gatling gun or an rpg. We put limits on shit like that. Somehow, we've convinced ourselves that automatic weapons capable of killing dozens in seconds is the same thing as a glock handgun used to defend oneself or their family.
 
Hix said:
As if ignoring the problem of Islamic terrorism and focusing on gun control is the right way to react to this unspeakable tragedy.
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Again, gun control would help fight against ISIS because they're currently relying on American citizens to carry out their attacks.

This is super intuitive right? We all want the same thing here.
 
Hix said:
And you, keep on finding ways to dance around the motive behind Islamic Terrorism.
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Islamic Terrorism doesn't explain the dozens of shootings that happened over the past year.

There is a gun problem at large in the US, of which Islamic Terrorism accounts for a minuscule percent.
 
MihowZa said:
Not to be even more on NeoGaf's shit list but the majority of gun violence exists in inner cities. America has an inner city crime problem, related heavily with guns. That's it. Even Chicago has only several blocks of completely unacceptable terrain where I would not recommend going. Just look @ a map of where gun violence occurs. To paint a brush stroke over 300+million people in such a large land mass is absurd.
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This didn't take long, did it, folks?

MihowZa said:
You cursing and calling people stupid is very grown up.
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Adults often curse. When you get there, you may understand that.
 
Hix said:
As if ignoring the problem of Islamic terrorism and focusing on gun control is the right way to react to this unspeakable tragedy.
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We can easily do something about gun control if we wanted, what do you think we can do about the problem of Islamic terrorism/radicalism? It isn't like we are sitting on our asses, we (the west) are losing this.
 
MihowZa said:
Not to be even more on NeoGaf's shit list but the majority of gun violence exists in inner cities. America has an inner city crime problem, related heavily with guns. That's it. Even Chicago has only several blocks of completely unacceptable terrain where I would not recommend going. Just look @ a map of where gun violence occurs. To paint a brush stroke over 300+million people in such a large land mass is absurd.
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Ah so it's an inner city thing too. You still haven't answered people's questions about Sandy Hook, Aurora, Charleston or the shooting just yesterday
 
reckless said:
An AR-15 isn't automatic.

Fully-automatic guns are already effectively banned in the U.S.
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In any case, assault rifles should be policed properly. Going to any store and get one with basically no questions asked is insane.

In Norway you have to be granted a license and all guns have to be registered. Before getting one you have to be registered at a local gun club. Also limit on how many guns you can have, based on type of animals you are hunting or type of competitions you do. In addition you are required to get a weapon cabinet for all guns. Even the cabinet needs to be documented. It even have to fill requirements.

That can't hide the fact that we had this happened in Norway a few years ago. It is the first time it did in that scale. Laws can't stop everything, but it will limit it to some extent. What is different with this case is that this in Florida was not planned, while the one don by Breivik in Norway was planned for years.
 
smokeandmirrors said:
with the state of the country and republican party you're damned right they don't deserve a seat at this table after all their bullshit obstructionist policies and outright ignoring facts. Lets not forget the blood on their hands from the Planned Parenthood killings a couple months ago.

and if im driving people like you away with my rhetoric, good. No one needs to listen to people like you.
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"People like you"

You are making up a boogeyman irrationally about who I am because I don't want Americans (Americans who aren't me) to have the freedom to bear arms stripped away from them.

Think about what a few of you people are saying. Or don't. You progressives just want to build a little impossible utopia you think exists.
 
ISIS will claim responsibility for anything terrible that happens on this planet. It doesn't mean they were actively communicating with this shithead and helping him devise a plan. That is just sensationalist headline trolling by ISIS.
 
Arrogant Bastard said:
You can defend yourself just fine if we put in full background checks, waiting periods, limits on magazine capacity, and potentially prohibited AR-15's from our streets.

But fine, deflect away from guns and place this squarely on ISIS and radicalism. What would you have us do? Go on, I'll wait.
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I would have people begin a discussion on why people are willing to kill other people.

Short circuit the logic to how something happened, while not focusing on the why this is happening, is avoiding the issue.

When someone breaks up with someone, we focus on the why not the how. When someone dies in the hospital, we don't focus on how they died (respitory failure) we focus on why (respitory failure due to pulmonary embolism etc). When a person kills someone, we should focus on WHY they killed, not what tool was used.

We solve nothing to avoid the real issue of why people kill.

Gun, knife, gasoline, pressure cooker, homemade bomb, beatings etc. There are a 1000 ways how, but it is easier for people to avoid and discuss the why.
 
cyberheater said:
I should have said that I think all guns should be banned.
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Yah, go for that one, the one statement that the vast majority do not support. I doubt you'll find a handful of senators or representatives that think there should be a ban on all guns.

tfur said:
I would have people begin a discussion on why people are willing to kill other people.

Short circuit the logic to how something happened, while not focusing on the why this is happening, is avoiding the issue.

When someone breaks up with someone, we focus on the why not the how. When someone dies in the hospital, we don't focus on how they died (respitory failure) we focus on why (respitory failure due to pulmonary embolism etc). When a person kills someone, we should focus on WHY they killed, not what tool was used.

We solve nothing to avoid the real issue of why people kill.

Gun, knife, gasoline, pressure cooker, homemade bomb, beatings etc. There are a 1000 ways how, but it is easier for people to avoid and discuss the why.
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People kill because they want to for whatever reason, I would like to make it a bit more difficult for them to do so. You aren't going to stop radicalism or extremists, it isn't going to happen.
 
Freezie KO said:
Both liberals and conservatives deserve to take some blame for this one.

Many conservatives reject gun control, despite all statistics showing that getting rid of guns drastically reduces murder rates and gun fatalities.

And many liberals have coddled the illiberal aspects of Islam (like anti-gay, anti-woman, etc.) and hid behind criticisms of xenophobia, Islamophobia, or foreign policy debates.

And in all these debates, let's not forget that the shooter was the one with the most agency. He made the choice to become a killer.
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Agency does not exist in the way you believe it does http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/what-neuroscience-says-about-free-will/
This man seemed to be hateful and abusive far before he was radicalized according to his ex-wife. One does not simply make the choice to become a killer though its a nice safe comfort to think only the mentally ill or psychopaths (the former who are victims much more often and the later not even being well understood or common at all) can kill. We are all animals at the core, we are all capable of this, and we can all work together to empathize and educate the limits of human "choice" and stop hateful, emotional acts like this one.
 
BobLoblaw said:
Do you think the founding fathers would've envisioned assault rifles along with whatever crappy shit passed for "arms" back then? Even still, we limit exactly what an "arm" is. You can't just got to a store and buy a gatling gun or an rpg. We put limits on shit like that. Somehow, we've convinced ourselves that automatic weapons capable of killing dozens in seconds is the same thing as a glock handgun used to defend oneself or their family.
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Exactly. Our founding fathers did the best they could for their time. Also, a right to bear arms in case of tyranny goes out the door in this age when our government has drones up the wazoo.
 
Dreamwriter said:
No, to my knowledge ISIS has not claimed responsibility, the shooter called 911 and pledged support to ISIS, and mentioned the Boston Marathon bombers. It's very possible that he was BSing, or even if he was a sympathizer did it all on his own.
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Isis has taken credit of the attacks through an Isis affiliated Syrian news agency.

According to RT, which is a banned source. But they're source is directly from the Syrian news agency in this account.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/******...461886a298b457b/amp?client=ms-android-att-us#
 
Robot Pants said:
I don't even want to think about how much worse this has to get before something is done about guns in this country.
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Even shooting up a nursery wouldn't get anything done. The only thing that I can think of that would remotely get people's attention is something on the hill in DC. And those places are defended like fort knox, so the answer is nothing.
 
PatzCU said:
ISIS will claim responsibility for anything terrible that happens on this planet. It doesn't mean they were actively communicating with this shithead and helping him devise a plan. That is just sensationalist headline trolling by ISIS.
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Not to mention it makes them look bigger and far reaching than they really are. These fuckers try to claim anything.
 
SexyFish said:
I mean even if he wasn't why would they not claim it?
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There are a few things they haven't claimed that we've blamed them for anyway. The recent EgyptAir crash for instance. They don't claim everything and when then do, they usually aren't bullshitting.
 
PatzCU said:
ISIS will claim responsibility for anything terrible that happens on this planet. It doesn't mean they were actively communicating with this shithead and helping him devise a plan. That is just sensationalist headline trolling by ISIS.
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Terror is how they stay in power.

People need to get into their heads that "making the west hate Muslims so they have nowhere to go but our Caliphate" is in their cardinal rules. It's their god damn slogan.
 
Alright guys guys

1) gun issue point . The guy worked security for some contractor who even worked on federal building . So yeah it would obviously easier for him to get a gun . How the fuck did this guy have that clearance .

2) religious angle being downplayed due to wife . Wife was 2009 . 7 years ago . He was on the FBI a radar in 2013 14 not directly but as someone whose name came up . So yes this is a religious angle .

Let's not be bigoted against Muslims but let's also try and take the facts as they come the questions we should e asking is how the fuck did he have clearance to work for a security firm and how the FBI missed on him and didn't follow further .
 
The Technomancer said:
They "claimed responsibility", but the dude's own wife describes him as barely religious
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It could have gone fast. But ISIS is both a religious issue (about interpretation of the texts) and a political one. ISIS is the biggest counterrevolution of our time, it has an ideological agenda and a worldwide plan to create its perfect society. Lots of dudes from Europe and other countries who went to Iraq and Syria or attacked people in Europe did it partly because they agree with everything that ISIS stands for ideologically (building an ultra-conservative society around Islam, getting rid of neoliberalism and everything that is "western". We shouldn't forget that. This isn't just about Islam, that's the version that ISIS and the far-right (including Trump) share.

That guy could have joined a far-right movement during the 20th century or an anarchist one before, that are just as political and promote violence to get their ideas in place. (but I don't place them on the same level of course)
 
tfur said:
I would have people begin a discussion on why people are willing to kill other people.

Short circuit the logic to how something happened, while not focusing on the why this is happening, is avoiding the issue.

When someone breaks up with someone, we focus on the why not the how. When someone dies in the hospital, we don't focus on how they died (respitory failure) we focus on why (respitory failure due to pulmonary embolism etc). When a person kills someone, we should focus on WHY they killed, not what tool was used.

We solve nothing to avoid the real issue of why people kill.

Gun, knife, gasoline, pressure cooker, homemade bomb, beatings etc. There are a 1000 ways how, but it is easier for people to avoid and discuss the why.
Click to expand...
We don't have countries where millions die a year from pressure cookers though. If violence didn't go down after stricter gun control you'd have a point, but right now even studies to see if gun control does anything are banned.
 
Guns are going to stay in the US, getting a constitutional amendment passed nowadays to ban guns would be an impossibility. And for Republicans, it is political suicide to vote on anti gun legislation in Congress which is Republican controlled. This latest massacre is also of a group that the Republican constituents despise, so I bet many are thinking this is God's punishment for being gay instead of having sympathy for the family's of the deceased and wanting to do something about the gun issue.
 
Sai-kun said:
please answer the question of how this isn't a gun issue despite 50 people having been killed because of it
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The deadliest terrorist attacks on American soil have all been committed with explosives of one kind or the other.

Because of the fact that you can make explosives from common household items (that we can't ban because we actually need them to function as a society) there will always be the possibility of explosives used for attacks like this.

I agree guns make it more easy, because it does take some effort and dedication to craft explosives.

But this is never going away, as long as we're free humans, someone will violate that trust.
 
Sai-kun said:
please answer the question of how this isn't a gun issue despite 50 people having been killed because of it
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A man decided to kill as many people as he could because of his intolerant religion. We can start here and work our way into the tools he used. Thank God he didn't have a pilot's license.
 
condolences :(

of course ISIS will claim responsibilities, but you can't trust ISIS on anything. Need proper investigation.

Also, I feel the problem is that it's too easy to go get guns if you need one in the US. I mean in my country, I don't feel that anyone I meet may have a gun, but I'm not American so idk :\
 
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