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[Chaplain]

Also they aren't saying whether the suspect pledged allegiance to ISIS on a 911 call.

I heard on the radio that he left a 911 recording pledging his allegiance to head of ISIS.

 

[FyreWulff]

So no one wants to question why a guy who was suspected of radicalism twice could still purchase a high powered weapon? I understand not wanting to put an agenda on something but this is ridiculous, he should be put in Gitmo for less but he can still buy a weapon?

Because the NRA will stop at nothing to ensure another sale for gun manufacturers.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Not the resignation part, the RIT point. Say it Obama.

Why does he have to say that phrase? He called this an act of terror, terrorism, etc. It's a term the GOP use as constant drum beat to link terrorism to Islam. There's no reason the president should amplify that signal, and it would be counterproductive for him to do so.

But he already has before. It's a stupid canned phrase the GOP keeps changing to try and portray him as someone that doesn't care about protecting americans.

It's great we have a President that doesn't take the easy way out of stoking embers.

This.

 

[thenight11]

Stewart Moore ‏@Stewartmoore 16s16 seconds ago
Both guns were purchased legally by the shooter in the last few days. - ATF

Orlando Police ‏@OrlandoPolice 10s11 seconds ago Orlando, FL
ATF: The gunman legally purchased the firearms within the last week. In Florida.

 

[Kinyou]

I mean, after Paris it feels like even strict gun laws can't 100% prevent this, but that also doesn't mean that you basically have to hand the killers their weapons.

 

[Toxi]

...In fact, I'd say it's too conveniently true.

Going to make some phonecalls to some individuals. Want to get to the bottom of this and see if Trump had any hand in this as a false-flag attack to boost his campaign.

It's more probable than you think. This guy IS the second-coming of Hitler afterall.

Please don't spout bullshit conspiracy theories in a thread about the murders of 50 people.

 

[FStubbs]

For what it's worth, back in April here's an imam in Orlando saying gays should be killed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I know it doesn't apply here but in a lot of mass shootings the killer relies on the gun to kill themselves. Killing yourself with a gun is a lot easier than a knife or whatever. Would as many people be prepared to go through with the killings if they didn't have an easy exit lined up at the end of it?

 

[Monocle]

I'd just like to chime in and say that owning a gun is a right. Dismissing it as a hobby is disgusting. It's a fundamental American right and until we start there, no one from 'the right' is going to have a conversation with you.

This is not a guns right case, this is a Muslim / terrorist issue.

You don't need the ability to maim or kill people in an instant. This fundamental American right directly contributes to a death rate that makes any other developed country look like a pacifistic utopia.

All of the statistics are against you here. Owning guns make you more likely to be injured or killed by guns. Less likely to keep a cool head in dangerous circumstances. More likely to make a dumb mistake, escalate a situation, and bring harm to yourself or other people.

So many gun advocates want to believe they're one of those mythical Responsible Gun Owners, but guess what? Unless you've had extensive training to offset the errors of judgment and unconscious reactions that most humans are subject to, your confidence in yourself is misplaced. Personally, I'd guess most of the people who go on about their right to own guns have an inflated sense of their own competence, a secret relish for power, and a childish longing to be a righteous badass.

The average civilian shouldn't have access to guns. The great success other countries have had in reducing gun violence by sensibly limiting gun ownership simply can't be denied by any thinking person. Our country will be better off as soon as we join the rest of the civilized world and stop treating tools that kill like they're toys. And by better off I mean fewer people will be fucking murdered, or accidentally blast someone's brains out, or indeed purposely blast their own brains out.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I know people only read certain posts and take it entirely out of context, but I am for sound and reasonable gun laws.

I'm not a nutter that want everything to be completely unregulated.

Welcome to the majority position, not sure why you didn't just say that upfront instead of obfuscating the issue for 100 posts.

 

[Oriel]

Suspect purchased two guns in the last few days.

 

[Memento]

Jesus Christ, so sad.

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

 

[DOWN]

He legally got two of the weapons in the past week. Amazing.

 

[Blader]

My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

Stopping some massacres seems like a pretty good improvement though, no? A couple less shootings are a few dozen more people who aren't killed.

 

[Patapwn]

Why?

Because that was the cause of this event?

 

[Fuzzery]

Reporters asking how in the heck was he able to get a gun legally if he'd been investigated for terrorism.

Lol, I remember Obama saying in a speech that there were people on the no fly list as a known ISIS sympathizer who were able to buy guns easy peasy.

 

[SparkleMotion]

I know it doesn't apply here but in a lot of mass shootings the killer relies on the gun to kill themselves. Killing yourself with a gun is a lot easier than a knife or whatever. Would as many people be prepared to go through with the killings if they didn't have an easy exit lined up at the end of it?

Possibly not. No way to know. Also, arguing that if they can't buy a gun, they would just make a bomb isn't necessarily quantifiable.

 

[geomon]

Jesus Christ, so sad.

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

Both

 

[Ominym]

Not the resignation part, the RIT point. Say it Obama.

Can you please tell me why you think Obama hasn't addressed, or said the words, "Radical Islamic Terrorism"?

 

[ParChor]

Jesus Christ, so sad.

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

That is not mutually exclusive.

 

[Oriel]

I heard on the radio that he left a 911 recording pledging his allegiance to head of ISIS.

That's been the claim so far but the Fed's aren't saying if that is true or not just yet.

 

[Joni]

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

Indeed. But stopping 90% of them is better than stopping 0%.

 

[jellies_two]

If this is the worst Islamic terrorist attack then there is no solution because the fbi checked this guy and just saw a loner with (what we now can certainly guess) mental issues.

So we either imprison all loners with mental issues, lest they listen to voices from isis, or other voices (Virginia tech), or we do something about guns so when they go berserk it's just local news.

 

[Syder]

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

What's the difference? 50 people shot dead in any context is terrorism.

 

[Monocle]

Jesus Christ, so sad.

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

whynotboth.gif

Also, let's not forget the religious element. Which should shock no one.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

LEGALLY PURCHASED

 

[Lead]

Welcome to the majority position, not sure why you didn't just say that upfront instead of obfuscating the issue for 100 posts.

I've said it numerous times, I'd attach it as my signature if I could.

 

[CertifiedFP]

Please don't spout bullshit conspiracy theories in a thread about the murders of 50 people.

It's fucking Trump. This right here is damn near literally his Reichstag Fire moment. We're talking an event that could propel him to the White House for god's sake.

 

[Kinsei]

Jesus Christ, so sad.

What was it? Terrorist attack or just homophobic cunts?

Both (although I'd argue that it was terrorism even if he was jut a homophobic prick). The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS before the shooting, but the shooters father suspects that he was motivated by homophobia.

 

[everyday math]

Reporters asking how in the heck was he able to get a gun legally if he'd been investigated for terrorism.

Cause it's not against the law

 

[Doc Holliday]

I know people only read certain posts and take it entirely out of context, but I am for sound and reasonable gun laws.

I'm not a nutter that want everything to be completely unregulated.

Ok I feel better now.

 

[Gnome Scat]

That's horrible, RIP. This fucking country, man.

 

[Holmes]

Not the resignation part, the RIT point. Say it Obama.

No, it singles out a whole religion and blames them for the actions of few. Respect your fellow Muslim Americans.

 

[NHarmonic.]

You don't need the ability to maim or kill people in an instant. This fundamental American right directly contributes to a death rate that makes any other developed country look like a pacifistic utopia.

All of the statistics are against you here. Owning guns make you more likely to be injured or killed by guns. Less likely to keep a cool head in dangerous circumstances. More likely to make a dumb mistake, escalate a situation, and bring harm to yourself or other people.

So many gun advocates want to believe they're one of those mythical Responsible Gun Owners, but guess what? Unless you've had extensive training to offset the errors of judgment and unconscious reactions that most humans are subject to, your confidence in yourself is misplaced. Personally, I'd guess most of the people who go on about their right to own guns have an inflated sense of their own competence, a secret relish for power, and a childish longing to be a righteous badass.

The average civilian shouldn't have access to guns. The great success other countries have had in reducing gun violence by sensibly limiting gun ownership simply can't be denied by any thinking person. Our country will be better off as soon as we join the rest of the civilized world and stop treating tools that kill like they're toys. And by better off I mean fewer people will be fucking murdered, or accidentally blast someone's brains out, or indeed purposely blast their own brains out.

What an amazing post. Sublime.

The bolded though, even with facts presented people decide to look away because they want to keep their fucking toys.

 

[Tarkus]

Why?

There's a gun problem, sure. But the ideology caused this massacre. Why can't we stop downplaying it? We are in a war against Islamic terrorism and guns. He needs to address both instead of just the latter.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

It's fucking Trump. This right here is damn near literally his Reichstag Fire moment. We're talking an event that could propel him to the White House for god's sake.

I don't see how really. Shootings like this really common in the USA do people even really care about them any more?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Both. The guy pledged allegiance to ISIS before the shooting, but the shooters father suspects that he was motivated by homophobia.

the father just sounds like he's in denial. Homophobia doesn't drive someone to this scale of murder.

 

[FyreWulff]

My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

I'm not going to go into a detailed position post, but the general idea behind gun and weapon control is that you slim down the massive fucking river-flow of guns and weapons through the country. When you reduce the ability to opportunistically acquire a gun, the attacks and so on go down. As the ATF just revealed, this is exactly what this attacker did.

Also, every mass shooting in the US so far has been done with legal guns. "but they'll be able to get them anyway!" isn't holding water when they're used in crimes after all being bought legally.

 

[entremet]

LEGALLY PURCHASED

Of course, just like most US mass shootings.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

LEGALLY PURCHASED

To the shock of no one.

 

[Parch]

Why can't we have both arguments? Why does focusing on religious extremism mean we don't have to touch gun laws at all?

Deflection. To diminish gun control discussion, some would rather focus on this guy being an ISIS terrorist instead of an american born homophobic.
Terrorist enemy instead of american nutter is a better POV for gun activists.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Of course, just like most US mass shootings.

To the shock of no one.

I just wanted to emphasize it for those in the back who don't think we have a gun problem.

 

[Ominym]

There's a gun problem, sure. But the ideology caused this massacre. Why can't we stop downplaying it? We are in a war against Islamic terrorism and guns. He needs to address both instead of just the latter.

What do you consider, "a gun problem"?

 

[dream]

Why does he have to say that phrase? He called this an act of terror, terrorism, etc. It's a term the GOP use as constant drum beat to link terrorism to Islam. There's no reason the president should amplify that signal, and it would be counterproductive for him to do so.

But by most accounts, this is an act of terror that IS linked to radical Islamic ideology. Why not be specific in calling it what it is?

 

[Jackpot]

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

We just want to get rid of guns, not every every horrific event.

I'm sorry to inform you that's never going to happen.

Actually I'm not, but I'm sure you know that.

Jesus.

 

[Intheflorsh]

ISIS didn't do shit for this guy. Them claiming responsibility is laughable.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

My point is that the acts of mass murder with the highest bodycounts was committed with explosives that was illegal to manufacture.

You can't stop said attacks because the items used in explosives are something modern society can't do without.

Imposing strict gun laws and banning certain types of firearms will stop some massacres, but can never stop them all.

There's nothing more to it than that.

nobody's talking about stopping all massacres and all killings
but significantly reducing them (yes, period, unless you'd like to trot out all that tenuous 'people will kill with whatever' shit again), through the enactment of stricter gun laws?
all for it

 

[Veldin]

Stewart Moore ‏@Stewartmoore 16s16 seconds ago
Both guns were purchased legally by the shooter in the last few days. - ATF

Orlando Police ‏@OrlandoPolice 10s11 seconds ago Orlando, FL
ATF: The gunman legally purchased the firearms within the last week. In Florida.

What a sick joke. Our country has such pitiful gun laws.

 

[GhaleonEB]

There's a gun problem, sure. But the ideology caused this massacre. Why can't we stop downplaying it? We are in a war against Islamic terrorism and guns. He needs to address both instead of just the latter.

Did you watch his statement? He did NOT downplay it. He's just not amplifying that particular phrase, for good reason.

 

[Chaplain]

That's been the claim so far but the Fed's aren't saying if that is true or not just yet.

Heard the same thing on the Radio. That they aren't saying anything for certain until all facts are checked.