You don't even really need to cite another country to state that gun control = less crime. People seem to forget that the U.S. banned automatic weapons for a reason, and it dramatically lowered gun deaths and crime.
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Mass shooting at Orlando gay nightclub [50 dead, 53 injured]
- Thread starter dc89
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You don't even really need to cite another country to state that gun control = less crime. People seem to forget that the U.S. banned automatic weapons for a reason, and it dramatically lowered gun deaths and crime.
So no gun deaths should happen then? Such a poor argument. Looking at the average number of gun death per 100,000 is more relevant at least:
Sadly, Canada only ranks so high because America's disease is spreading across our borders.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2743764/w...ton-more-guns-are-being-seized-at-the-border/
Except they only want to focus on this for about ten minutes after a shooting. Then they could give fuck all for the mentally ill. Just check most state legislatures where medicaid and healthcare services are often one of the first thrown up to the chopping block when budgets are introduced or deficits need to be closed.
Or better yet, re-visit Obamacare.
Rudelord
Member
Royal_Phalanx
Member
What if I like replica guns like airguns and airsoft? If anything it means less people feeling the need to own real firearms if they have an reasonably safe outlet for an interest in guns. A lot of Canadians, Germans, Swedes, etc. own them, with no significant impact on public safety. So yep, I stand by the authoritarian nanny state comment.
partyphone
Banned
not just gun control. institutionalized racism, healthcare, income inequality, reproductive rights, and on and on and on. basically everything Republicans are fighting to maintain.
timetokill
Banned
Okay, I don't understand why this is in response to me in particular, but sure. We agree a gun ban isn't logical. It's pure fantasy right now.
I personally think the 2nd is still relevant, especially as people argue for the government to have ever more authoritarian powers on both sides of the aisle. I haven't seen a compelling argument for its elimination. But I know not everyone agrees with me.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Wtf, I just heard that the FBI had him on their watch list (known before), and that he had some contact with some dude who wound up being a suicide bomber in Syria, but they concluded he wasn't going to go down the path of being a terrorist?
???
???
Night Angel
Member
Lol ok
Whether foreign or domestic, our gun problem enables them both equally.
Sorry but this is ridiculous. No one asks for a discussion for radical whites in any of the previous shooting events. No one asked for a discussion on radical blacks after the DC Sniper.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I do not disagree. We absolutely need to create a society that encourages Muslim citizens to move further left (and to their credit, it is absolutely happening), and we need to do way better for the mentally ill in our society.
However, I think gun reforms are the most tangible thing we can implement right now (except for maybe mental health reforms). We should be talking about all of these things, but one is something that is the easiest to reform.
Your guns aren't stopping the military. In a hypothetical authoritarian takeover, based on common trends, its the people clinging to their guns that seem to be the most interested in instilling an authoritarian regime in the first place. So there is also that.
The Second amendment is outdated and all of the rest of the first world has gotten by just fine without such broad rights to guns. Empirically speaking it has made us less safe then safe.
The problem I have is that anytime you mention the words gun and control, the NRA goes off and starts spouting the "they're going to take your guns" BS and refuses to even engage in discussions.
It's hard to try to implement something when one group won't even listen (and if there's going to be any sensible gun control implemented, the NRA and their supports will be involved in it).
LimitedTimeGamer
Member
Seriously, america needs to get their guns under control.
To those that have got a gun in america, can you just walk in and buy one? Or do you need to get a licence first? Curious.
To those that have got a gun in america, can you just walk in and buy one? Or do you need to get a licence first? Curious.
You people are like stuck record. Guns are a killing tool. They do not MOTIVATE people to kill. There are multiple issues at play here not one or the other.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yeah, I think the whole "protection from the government" thing is moot now. The government is powerful enough that it could rather effectively quell any dissidence without much trouble.
Should be banned everywhere.
I'm just pointing out that America's shitty gun laws have a terrible impact on their global image. I don't see what's self righteous about that. My own country is also known for some pretty shameful things and it makes me fucking furious.
It's the truth though.
The World is staring at your inaction in shocked disbelief, once again.
Pretty sure there's a loophole allowing the 2nd. Isn't it buying at gunshows or flea markets or something?
neurosisxeno
Member
It varies from state to state. In my state (VT) I could go in, they run a background check, and I believe 72 hours later I can have a gun. Although I just double checked and it turns out I could just go on Armslist or something like that, find someone in the state selling one, and pick it up in person on the spot.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Australia took very heavy measures to not only remove access to guns but to decrease gun glorification, especially amongst the items described. And guess what? It worked
shinra-bansho
Member
It's a discussion, and not every response has to be disagreement? Besides my posts are for the good of all.
As for the second amendment, for one thing it's pointless, no citizen militia or whatever is going to be able to stop the US government and army from imposing anything. It's fanciful nonsense. Secondly, at it's most basic, enshrining the right to own an item is stupid, particularly a weapon; it makes no more sense than enshrining the right to own a kettle. Except a kettle can't be used to murder 50 people easily.
Whether it's Islamic terrism, or mental illness, or racial hatred, or homophobia, or just random psychopathy, or whatever other stupid motivation underscores someone going into a room and killing a bunch of people, the common binding thread is that they were able to so easily kill a bunch of people because they had easy access to a device designed for killing.
Even if one pretends that these things are brought up in earnest to try and create a discussion on them, which I highly doubt they are - the right wing suddenly cares about reducing mental illness? It's all well and good to talk about society's ills as a whole leading to a murderer murdering people. And to attempt to correct those problems as well. But at the end of the day, this person couldn't have so easily killed so many people if he couldn't easily get hold of something to kill people with.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
We are so fucked. We cannot have the government having access to 'authoritarian' powers that could stop shit like this, because of X, and we cannot limit peoples access to weapons that allow them to massively cause carnage.
All we can do is magically talk about stopping extremism without any way to do it, cause 'authoritarian' powers. God bless the land of the free.
You should note that is after a continued discussion on the issue and me trying to toss a bone. Or are you trying to say that this is the state of Islam?
Private sells, owner to seller allow a transfer of funds and a photo ID to make sure you are of age. It is effectively just as easy for me to purchase a 6 pack as it is an AR-15.
All we can do is magically talk about stopping extremism without any way to do it, cause 'authoritarian' powers. God bless the land of the free.
You should note that is after a continued discussion on the issue and me trying to toss a bone. Or are you trying to say that this is the state of Islam?
Private sells, owner to seller allow a transfer of funds and a photo ID to make sure you are of age. It is effectively just as easy for me to purchase a 6 pack as it is an AR-15.
timetokill
Banned
That's exactly why I said politics defining what is on the table is bad.
Mental illness is a serious problem and connected to a lot of these tragedies but the left doesn't want to talk about it because the right talks about it instead of guns.
It's stupid. We can and should tackle all the issues at play, not just the red meat for each party's base.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Why?
AnathemicOne
Banned
It's true however, what modern country looks at America atm and goes, "Yeah gun rights!" Hell in times where this doesn't happen does such a statement ever happen?
You generalize that Americans dont want anything to change. Most do want gun control.
I live 10 minutes from a Wal-Mart. I can go down there, buy one, wait the required days for the background check and after that is done, walk out with my gun.
That's it.
There's no licensing for guns in America. There's a conceal carry license in some(liberal) areas, but that doesn't prevent you from owning a gun, just having it in public. You're only allowed to license things that aren't "rights" in the U.S., like driving.
I still find it insane that you don't have to do anything at all to buy a gun really while you need to take tests for driving.
Several. Gunshows, private sellers, gifts.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDbGyv6SIQ
What do you want to do with this guy? Or what should we do about right-wing news orgs that rile up their fanatics on the issue of abortion, even parading a disgustingly bogus video around as if it were legit? They may not be imports, but let's not act like extremism isn't everywhere, even in our more mainstream outlets, always a mouse click away.
What we do with this?
A Link to the Past
Banned
I mean to be fair, a lot of people in the US don't know that most want it, so I would expect the loudest and most powerful side of the matter to be reflective of what our society wants.
everyday math
Banned
I'm sorry. Not much I can say, but I'm sorry.
How many? Because racial hatred or radical jihadism or gang violence or crimes of passion are rarely a function of mental illness.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Yet they're legal in Canada, Sweden, Germany, France, etc. I see no major problems in allowing people to have them. Those places are also very safe countries. Might as well ban video games with guns in them if you want to stop 'gun glorification'.
I'd hazard around half of America could really care less about what the rest of the world thinks. So no, we don't care.
Didnt Obama go after the gunshow loophole?
Sam Bee did a solid breakdown on the gunshow loopholes and how obscenely easy it is to purchase guns in America without any checks at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usgOsNhkKVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usgOsNhkKVE
This is the best argument for banning guns. I mean of course shootings will still happen but I'm sure the frequency of shootings can be significantly reduced.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Stop equating guns with video games, Video games don't directly kill people nor are they made for the purpose to.
Hmmm... You just listed a bunch of nations with very very heavy gun control. Odd.
I'm not sure of the specifics. I don't own guns myself, just know people who do. Oddly enough most of them are in favor of gun control but at the same time they're deathly afraid that any type of gun control will later be expanded and used to ban guns later. So they're essentially part of the problem.
A Link to the Past
Banned
IIRC, Phalanx isn't against gun control, just gun bans, though I may be mistaken
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I was talking about replicas, not actual firearms. Read my past posts here, I'm not against gun control.
Sorry to hear that, my condolences to you and their families.
everyday math
Banned
Most Americans want stricter gun laws.
Number of "Join the NRA" ads I'm getting when visiting this thread is sort of disconcerting.
I guess this is already a distressing thread but that just made me a bit sick.
neurosisxeno
Member
Except the Sandy Hook killer (Adam Lanza) didn't legally purchase the guns he used. They were legally purchased by his mother, kept in a place he had access to, and she "responsibly" trained him in the use and maintenance of said firearms.
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