Support NeoGAF

[NYCmetsfan]

That's pretty sad if that's your only response to relevant, factual, statistical information. Defecting much? Why don't you prove to me the opposite is true? Because you can't. It doesn't matter what source you try to pull from, because these are the statistics.

I mean you can frantically avoid my two posts or you can respond to the fact these graphs dont reflect the stats as they are

 

[SparkleMotion]

People arguing against gun control, I'll see you in the next mass shooting news thread.

 

[LizardKing]

I mean you can frantically avoid my two posts or you can respond to the fact these graphs dont reflect the stats as they are

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/historical-crime-data

Knock yourself out. First two links. They are .xls but show homicide rate in first column through history. If you look at 97-15 and just compare those two years, you get a current homicide rate of 73% compared to 97. In the US over the same time it's 77%. Not exactly statistically significant ( if we go back to 2013 for example we get 76% compared to 77% for the US.)

For people who want to ban guns, show me it works. Show me a gun ban significantly reduced crimes in those already very safe countries. Show me it would work here. For people wanting to change the law, the onus is on them to show why it would be effective. You can't just create policy based off emotion and assumption. I've read the studies and looked at the numbers. They aren't convincing to me, and I would think many would draw the same conclusion.

 

[Mael]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/historical-crime-data

Knock yourself out. First two links. They are .xls but show homicide rate in first column through history.

If that's not GIsh Gallop I don't know what that is.
"Here's all the stats in the world, when you've analyzed them all you'll see how right I was".

Cite a giant wall of text, or a three hour long [Y]ou[T]ube video, and then claim it as irrefutable proof.

When they ask for the relevant excerpt, whine about how it's not your job to do the research for them.

When they go through the video and start explaining why the video is wrong, accuse them of cherry picking [...] because they aren't addressing the "important" arguments.

When they ask you what the important arguments are, insist that it's not your job to do the research for them.
And... repeat.

 

[LizardKing]

If that's not GIsh Gallop I don't know what that is.
"Here's all the stats in the world, when you've analyzed them all you'll see how right I was".

I told people specifically where to click. It would take about 60 seconds to view all data.

 

[Diffense]

When someone goes crazy and kills people with legally obtainwd firearms ismt that like the perfect time to talk about amending gun laws? As ot proves they once again clearly dont work?

My issue with people that want to turn this into an issue of ideology is iideology isn't what people take into clubs or churches to kill people with. It's guns. Until people just straight up abandon ideological religions that promote radicalism attacks of this nature will happen.

So what does it make sense to focus on. Restricting the ability of people to get guns or talking about how radical islam is bad?

OK, so you were not being truthful when you said we can talk about both.
Good to know.

Where people don't have guns they have used suicide bombs or IEDs made out of pressure-cookers....fucking planes.
Gun control is no silver bullet and I refuse to be "shut up" by people with a hard on for this legislation to the exclusion of all other considerations.

 

[LizardKing]

There was a small increase in knife crime then that shit began to fall heavily. I am on my phone but I'll look into the other stats.

And really, are you going to say this is a statistically meaningful change?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Here is why that graph is misleading.

Take a look at the range from Protestant which is 62% versus the evangelist horriblly scary 28%. Just like the horrific video I posted , if you expect a person with Christian background to commit these act it wouldn't be shocking that it be in that 62% percent of evangalist who do not support homosexuality as per that chart.

But here is that comparison failure. Why aren't Muslim breakdown among its donomination? Are we to assume all Muslim have no such diversity? Of course there are same equal breakdown in Muslims from Sunni /Shia / Sufi or even school of thoughts like salafi, Wahhabism etc. then we can truly compare and see what percentage of conservative Muslim approve of homosexuality versus evangalist and vise Versa with liberal muslims

Firstly, the breakdown doesn't exist for that because it's not a big enough demographic to need it. It's why the split for Christians exists.

Secondly, if you were following my posts, the point was that there was plenty of liberalism among Muslims, and Muslims have grown more liberal in recent years. Namely, to illustrate the difference between Muslims in the US and Muslims in the Middle East and why the Middle East's religious tyranny is a bludgeon of a bigger problem rather than the main problem. If you took Islam out of the Middle East, the leadership would find another reason to commit atrocities.

Thirdly, you talk about how it's practiced, and yet in your comparison between Muslims and Christians, you compare what I assume is Muslims worldwide to Muslims in America. If you look at Christian-majority African countries, you are going to find a lot of countries who consider the Bible absolute word of God. So if we made a comparison between Christians and Muslims in the US, it would have to be noted that despite the assertion that Muslims are strictly adherent to the Quran, nearly half of all Muslims do not adhere to the Quran as it relates to homosexuality.

 

[AnathemicOne]

I would like to remind people that

it is about fucking guns

the recent mass shootings we had tend to be ideologically motivated, yes, however mass shootings aren't just the only tragedies we should be focusing on; mass shootings aren't the only instance where people die on routine in this country. Again, 3 days ago, in the same fucking city of Orlando, we had single-target shooting, absent of any hate towards minority groups or radical religion.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yeah, seriously. I see people talking about how others are forcing the narrative away from Islam, but there are actual powerful organizations on top of regular people trying to block any discussion about gun control.

 

[geardo]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

These shootings are happening almost literally everyday now.

 

[Lakitu]

I would like to remind people that

it is about fucking guns

the recent mass shootings we had tend to be ideologically motivated, yes, however mass shootings aren't just the only tragedies we should be focusing on; mass shootings aren't the only instance where people die on routine in this country. Again, 3 days ago, in the same fucking city of Orlando, we had single-target shooting, absent of any hate towards minority groups or radical religion.

Fucking horrifying. Did he survive?

 

[Jag]

it is about fucking guns

The thing that's crazy is that normal, family oriented people think gun control would have no affect on these types of crimes. The argument I get into is that they will just get illegal guns or they will make homemade bombs instead.

If you can't reason with normal people, you realize why real gun control will never happen here.

 

[beast786]

Are you sure? Last time I looked at homosexuality laws in Islamic majority countries, I noticed a trend that suggested so called islamic countries had laws from the time of the British empire. Which explains why Turkey from its inception never had homosexuality as a crime on its books.

edit: And from memory, jordan and mali, like Turkey, are similarly independent of British law. But hopefully someone can correct me on this.

Ah turkey the true single hope for secular Islam

2015 - For the first time, Turkish authorities banned the annual Gay pride parade. The police used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons against the marchers.

"Homophobia remains deeply rooted among parts of the conservative country’s population. While homosexuality is not illegal in Turkey, in 2010, the then Prime Minister Erdogan’s Minister for Family and Women labelled it a “disease” that “needs to be treated"

http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/28/...-riot-police-rubber-bullets-and-water-cannon/


While you observing the trend of British colonies , you should have also notice that British colonies that are many non Muslim like USA , Canada , Australia etc actually somehow changed lbgt policies , while some Muslim countries didn't just retain the criminal aspect of lbgt but actually upgraded to death penalty After the independence.... Interesting trend indeed

 

[smurfx]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

These shootings are happening almost literally everyday now.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/42-people-shot-7-killed-in-chicago-weekend-violence/1383393/

just look at what's happening in chicago every weekend.

 

[stufte]

The thing that's crazy is that normal, family oriented people think gun control would have no affect on these types of crimes. The argument I get into is that they will just get illegal guns or they will make homemade bombs instead.

If you can't reason with normal people, you realize why real gun control will never happen here.

Talking about reasonable gun laws needs to happen, but they're not wrong. Guns are just a tool used by someone with the motivation to use them. If guns weren't easily available, then they'd find some other method of creating mass harm. Gun use in crimes are a symptom of a problem, not the cause.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Fucking horrifying. Did he survive?

No

 

[captive]

It amazes me how people are so willing to jump to banning guns and anti-muslim arguments instead of just targeting the largest elephant in the run: anti-lgbt rhethoric.

so how does targeting anti lgbt rherthoric help the victims of Charleston? The victims of San Bernidino? Both Fort Hood shootings? The Colorado theater shooting?

Yes we should try to educate people why their hate is ridiculous whether its racism, bigotry or whatever, however the common theme between all of those events is that guns are far too prevalent and far too easy to get.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Fucking horrifying. Did he survive?

No, no one in the bathroom made it out alive.

Talking about reasonable gun laws needs to happen, but they're not wrong. Guns are just a tool used by someone with the motivation to use them. If guns weren't easily available, then they'd find some other method of creating mass harm. Gun use in crimes are a symptom of a problem, not the cause.

If guns weren't easily available or were banned outright then the required avenues to get them illegally would be increased thus increasing the likelihood to get caught. Again, we had a shooting incident within the same city just 2 days prior to the mass shooting here. Yes religious extremism is bad, yes LGBT-hate is bad, however unlike the other two, nothing has been done on gun control in this country for 2 fucking decades.

 

[Theanine3D]

It's not surprising actually. Despite recent gains in LBGT rights on paper, a sizable chunk of Americas still hate LBGT people. Pointing at Islam ALONE gives a convenient scrape goat that allow the public to ignore the part of Islam/culture the shooter acted on: homophobia.

People don't want to talk about homophobia in America, because many Americans still agree with it across all races, subcultures, and religions/beliefs. It's taboo because so much of "reasoning" for homophobia is allowed to hide behind religion.

America needs to deal with it own homophobic beliefs.

This is what I've been saying.

I grew up in one of the most liberal states of the country. Most of my classmates in high school were and still are homophobes. I had classmates who often joked about killing gay people.

All of these people followed various denomination of Christianity, or no religion at all.

People who think Omar Mateen was unique in his homophobia, or homophobic purely because of Islam, are either unaware of reality, or blatantly refusing to look in a mirror. We may have marriage rights now but the culture of homophobia still hasn't gone away in the U.S.. I would likely still get followed home and assaulted if I held hands with another man in public. It will take decades for our culture to "catch up" to the progressive changes our laws have made, and even then, there will still be homophobia. Consider that racism is still alive and well half a century after the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Oh snap

lol @ people butthurt about that comment, even though it's actually pretty true. LGBT aren't a protected class, and guns have more powerful lobbies advocating for them and are more protected than LGBT people are, as pathetic as it sounds.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I agree. Being LGBT myself, I do think that it's a trifling thing to fight ideologies. It is a valuable fight, but gun control is important to a great variety of rights.

I just wish people weren't doing so much to obfuscate the point that this was an anti-LGBT hate crime.

 

[3N16MA]

The problem is that she is just one person that got affected. Sure it was direct in that it's one of them, but again it's just one. As horrible as it sounds, I think legislators would only be pushed enough if someone went in a spree on capital hill and caused some serious damage. If they saw that even in their little sanctum they were not safe they would have an actual discussion on what to do about it because they saw that they were just as targetable as the masses, something they wouldn't like. Until something like that happens, the issue of gun control in the US will keep getting pushed aside hiding behind antiquated 2nd amendment rights that have no bearings in a modern world.

At this point that may not make a difference. I have no clue what is needed before something is done. Honestly I don't like thinking about it since enough innocent people have been murdered by idiots with guns. I don't want another tragedy to happen in order for some change to take place.

I thought the Sandy Hook shooting would have been the breaking point and something would have happend. The most vulnerable members of society were victims and yet nothing of significance happend.

 

[MulderYuffie]

This is so awful that's 50 too many dead RIP

 

[Team Alucard]

The thing that's crazy is that normal, family oriented people think gun control would have no affect on these types of crimes. The argument I get into is that they will just get illegal guns or they will make homemade bombs instead.

If you can't reason with normal people, you realize why real gun control will never happen here.

Yup.

7 out of 10 Americans are against banning handguns

56% think that concealed-carry makes us safer.

Public opinion is not trending in the direction the left would like, either.

The left lost the battle on guns a long time ago. They're more than welcome to try banning them, but they would destroy their party in the process.

 

[captive]

Talking about reasonable gun laws needs to happen, but they're not wrong. Guns are just a tool used by someone with the motivation to use them. If guns weren't easily available, then they'd find some other method of creating mass harm. Gun use in crimes are a symptom of a problem, not the cause.

this is asinine. Because you and i both know nothing is going to happen to "treat the symptom" as you call it.

furthermore as i and others have said and even linked to statistics, making guns harder to get decreases gun violence, full stop, end of story. Saying "they'll just find another way to cause harm" great, if they try knives they wont get near as far as killing 50 people. If they try to make a bomb they could A) get caught buying the materials B) blow themselves up trying to make it C) potentially be successful. If they try to buy a black market gun, they better have a ton of cash because they aren't cheap and you risk getting caught by LEO in a sting operation.

 

[Jag]

I just wish people weren't doing so much to obfuscate the point that this was an anti-LGBT hate crime.

Unfortunately people cling to the narrative that fits their own worldview. It's worse when you have such a confluence of hot button items like this tragedy.

 

[stufte]

I agree. Being LGBT myself, I do think that it's a trifling thing to fight ideologies. It is a valuable fight, but gun control is important to a great variety of rights.

I just wish people weren't doing so much to obfuscate the point that this was an anti-LGBT hate crime.

I 100% agree, that's why (for me) the constant boiling down of this tragedy to a gun rights issue kinda pisses me off.

 

[HyperionX]

Yup.

7 out of 10 Americans are against banning handguns

56% think that more people carrying guns will make us safer.

The left lost the battle on guns a long time ago. They're more than welcome to try banning guns, but they would destroy their party in the process.

There's been polls showing all sorts of things were once very unpopular: voting for a woman as President, interracial marriage, gay marriage, etc. These things don't mean a thing in the long-term.

There are overwhelmingly good reasons to ban handguns and most firearms. The only thing holding it all back is social inertia, which isn't going to last forever.

 

[trembli0s]

Firstly, the breakdown doesn't exist for that because it's not a big enough demographic to need it. It's why the split for Christians exists.

Secondly, if you were following my posts, the point was that there was plenty of liberalism among Muslims, and Muslims have grown more liberal in recent years. Namely, to illustrate the difference between Muslims in the US and Muslims in the Middle East and why the Middle East's religious tyranny is a bludgeon of a bigger problem rather than the main problem. If you took Islam out of the Middle East, the leadership would find another reason to commit atrocities.

Thirdly, you talk about how it's practiced, and yet in your comparison between Muslims and Christians, you compare what I assume is Muslims worldwide to Muslims in America. If you look at Christian-majority African countries, you are going to find a lot of countries who consider the Bible absolute word of God. So if we made a comparison between Christians and Muslims in the US, it would have to be noted that despite the assertion that Muslims are strictly adherent to the Quran, nearly half of all Muslims do not adhere to the Quran as it relates to homosexuality.

From my understanding, this does not at all seem to be the case.

Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Iran, etc. All of those countries are not at all liberalizing. A dutch woman in Qatar was arrested AFTER SHE WAS RAPED.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/middleeast/qatar-dutch-woman-rape-report-jail/

To be fair to your point, those are Middle Eastern, with the exception of Egypt which should be classified on its own based on history.

But then again look at Indonesia which has implemented Sharia law recently. IIRC a non-Muslim was caned for breaking the law earlier this year. Nigeria is in the middle of a huge fight with increasingly radicalized Muslims. Turkey is becoming increasingly radicalized by fuck wit Islamist while secularism is increasingly disfavored. Sharia laws were recently passed in Malaysia.

I don't quite buy the liberalization argument.

 

[Team Alucard]

There's been polls showing all sorts of things were once very unpopular: voting for a woman as President, interracial marriage, gay marriage, etc. These things don't mean a thing in the long-term.

There are overwhelmingly good reasons to ban handguns and most firearms. The only thing holding it all back is social inertia, which isn't going to last forever.

Like I said, they're more than welcome to try.

But they would get utterly annihilated in the following election and the next administration would undue whatever laws they passed.

 

[Astral Dog]

This is what I've been saying.

I grew up in one of the most liberal states of the country. Most of my classmates in high school were and still are homophobes. I had classmates who often joked about killing gay people.

All of these people followed various denomination of Christianity, or no religion at all.

People who think Omar Mateen was unique in his homophobia, or homophobic purely because of Islam, are either unaware of reality, or blatantly refusing to look in a mirror. We may have marriage rights now but the culture of homophobia still hasn't gone away in the U.S.. I would likely still get followed home and assaulted if I held hands with another man in public. It will take decades for our culture to "catch up" to the progressive changes our laws have made, and even then, there will still be homophobia. Consider that racism is still alive and well half a century after the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Its not only in the USA, but other parts of the world as well. 😢

But, at least things have been getting better, this is a huge hit because i thought USA had one of the most accepting communities.

 

[TCKaos]

Do we know what weapon was actually used? I keep seeing people post about AR-15s but, I mean, that's a large rifle. You're not exactly sneaking that shit into a club.

 

[HyperionX]

Like I said, they're more than welcome to try.

But they would get utterly annihilated in the following election and the next administration would undue whatever laws they passed.

I think those days of gun rights being totally untouchable are long past, and will go the way of interracial marriage bans or refusing to vote for a female president. Look at how the pro-gun guys here on Neogaf are totally marginalized and ignored these days. I expect a similar trajectory for gun rights.

 

[trembli0s]

I think those days of gun rights being totally untouchable are long past, and will go the way of interracial marriage bans or refusing to vote for a female president. Look at how the pro-gun guys here on Neogaf are totally marginalized and ignored these days. I expect a similar trajectory for gun rights.

NeoGAF is not AT ALL representative of general public opinion. Alucard presented opinion polls showing you just that.

 

[beast786]

Firstly, the breakdown doesn't exist for that because it's not a big enough demographic to need it. It's why the split for Christians exists.

Wait ... 3.3 million is not big enough? So then ignore the diversity to clump everyone somehow makes it right ? No. It's not comparable. It's make it equal standing or provide better data

Secondly, if you were following my posts, the point was that there was plenty of liberalism among Muslims, and Muslims have grown more liberal in recent years. Namely, to illustrate the difference between Muslims in the US and Muslims in the Middle East and why the Middle East's religious tyranny is a bludgeon of a bigger problem rather than the main problem. If you took Islam out of the Middle East, the leadership would find another reason to commit atrocities.

Of course Muslims will be more liberal overall in USA , we actually have laws contradict sharia law which radical/ conservative Muslims wants to live in. If you are conservative Muslim and wear a hijab , would you live in France ?

What does commit atrocities have to do with Islamic law?you have democratic Muslim government where homosexuality is illegal or punish by death

Thirdly, you talk about how it's practiced, and yet in your comparison between Muslims and Christians, you compare what I assume is Muslims worldwide to Muslims in America. If you look at Christian-majority African countries, you are going to find a lot of countries who consider the Bible absolute word of God. So if we made a comparison between Christians and Muslims in the US, it would have to be noted that despite the assertion that Muslims are strictly adherent to the Quran, nearly half of all Muslims do not adhere to the Quran as it relates to homosexuality.

Are you saying that the way majority of Christians around the world see exactly the same as Muslims about there book being direct word of God ? Because it's factually just not true

Islam =\= Muslims . In USA we have laws to protect against extreme ideologies , going back To my first point. So obviously radical / sharia wanting won't be highly represent here. Some even believe Quran actually doesn't say homosexuality is illegal as they prefer new moderate interpretation istead of classic tasfir. That is why I try not to confuse debate between scripture and broad stoke all Muslims under one graph like the one you posted

.,.,.,,,

 

[Team Alucard]

I think those days of gun rights being totally untouchable are long past, and will go the way of interracial marriage bans or refusing to vote for a female president. Look at how the pro-gun guys here on Neogaf are totally marginalized and ignored these days. I expect a similar trajectory for gun rights.

Support for stricter gun laws is down 10% from the year 2000, and over 20% from 1990. Public opinion is not trending in the direction that would support your argument.

And did you really compare a video game forum to the public at large? Step outside of the echo-chamber.

No major democrat advocates for outright banning guns, even though the vast majority of them would like too, because they know that doing so would end their political career.

 

[HyperionX]

NeoGAF is not AT ALL representative of general public opinion. Alucard presented opinion polls showing you just that.

And like interracial marriage bans, these things will change. NeoGAF use to be pretty pro-gun rights. Now that position is nearly dead. If discuss it here only leads to more and more people demand a ban on guns, then it's pretty reasonable to believe that this will happen in the general public, once people serious discuss the issue.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

Do we know what weapon was actually used? I keep seeing people post about AR-15s but, I mean, that's a large rifle. You're not exactly sneaking that shit into a club.

AR 15's can have shortened folded stocks. It is the civilian semi auto version of the M-16/M4 Carbine.

 

[A Link to the Past]

From my understanding, this does not at all seem to be the case.

Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Iran, etc. All of those countries are not at all liberalizing. A dutch woman in Qatar was arrested AFTER SHE WAS RAPED.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/middleeast/qatar-dutch-woman-rape-report-jail/

To be fair to your point, those are Middle Eastern, with the exception of Egypt which should be classified on its own based on history.

But then again look at Indonesia which has implemented Sharia law recently. IIRC a non-Muslim was caned for breaking the law earlier this year. Nigeria is in the middle of a huge fight with increasingly radicalized Muslims. Turkey is becoming increasingly radicalized by fuck wit Islamist while secularism is increasingly disfavored. Sharia laws were recently passed in Malaysia.

I don't quite buy the liberalization argument.

The best counter to this is THAT your argument rests its laurels on citing almost exclusively Asian countries and Egypt. We are discussing Muslims in America, who are objectively speaking becoming markedly more liberal. For your argument, you need to be able to establish that Islam is a greater problem in the Middle East than the geographical situation in the Middle East.

 

[Laevateinn]

Yup.

7 out of 10 Americans are against banning handguns

56% think that concealed-carry makes us safer.

Public opinion is not trending in the direction the left would like, either.

The left lost the battle on guns a long time ago. They're more than welcome to try banning them, but they would destroy their party in the process.

Unless I'm color blind, your graph says the opposite of your words. Things are trending towards laws should be more strict. Kept as they are now has dropped from 43 to 33 since 2012 while more strict has risen from 44 to 55.

I guess if you go back to the 90s public opinion has dropped but things are swinging back and it has always been around 50 % or higher? I don't see that as a threat to the Democratic party should they begin to more forcefully push that kind of agenda.

Edit: the percentage of Americans who own a gun has dramatically declined as well. Gun sales may be rising but it's mostly because a smaller number of unhinged Americans are buying more and more.

 

[Omegasquash]

...making guns harder to get decreases gun violence, full stop, end of story.

This is the part that blows my mind. Simple, common sense action can go a long way in prevention. That folks don't want to see that happen because "muh guns" says lots about them.

 

[AnathemicOne]

NeoGAF is not AT ALL representative of general public opinion. Alucard presented opinion polls showing you just that.

Whenever there's an anecdote of some Southern or MidWestern user about his positive experience with guns I imagine the negative experiences plenty others had with guns; I imagine the piling corpses of the dead; I imagine the bloodied faces of elementary school children; I imagine the panic and terror of victims soon to die.

Yeah I'm a bit mad, still am. But I think it's a rational anger considering, again, 2 decades of this shit and nothing has happened. I don't give a fucking shit about your hobby.

 

[stufte]

And like interracial marriage bans, these things will change. NeoGAF use to be pretty pro-gun rights. Now that position is nearly dead. If discuss it here only leads to more and more people demand a ban on guns, then it's pretty reasonable to believe that this will happen in the general public, once people serious discuss the issue.

NeoGAF is hardly representative of the rest of the country.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Its not only in the USA, but other parts of the world as well. 😢

But, at least things have been getting better, this is a huge hit because i thought USA had one of the most accepting communities.

Are you serious with this?

 

[beast786]

I agree. Being LGBT myself, I do think that it's a trifling thing to fight ideologies. It is a valuable fight, but gun control is important to a great variety of rights.

I just wish people weren't doing so much to obfuscate the point that this was an anti-LGBT hate crime.

Both matters. Hate crime is at its Orgin an ideolog crime. Black people were being lynched because of ideology not because rope was available . Sure gun makes it easy and more destructive . But, being apologetic for obvious hate ideology is just cancer that needs to be eradicated . And to do it we need to talk about issues and put political pressure. Just the way we handle civil rights

 

[HyperionX]

Support for stricter gun laws is down 10% from the year 2000, and over 20% from 1990. Public opinion is not trending in the direction that would support your argument.

And did you really compare a video game forum to the public at large? Step outside of the echo-chamber.

No major democrat advocates for outright banning guns, even though the vast majority of them would like too, because they know that doing so would end their political career.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

It's going back up again, and about 11% higher since 2011. I suspect further increases, not further reductions.

They will eventually. Obama didn't even mention gun control in 2008, and now he's one of the biggest gun control advocates. Things are rapidly moving against pro-gun positions, if you are willing to see it.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Are you saying that the way majority of Christians around the world see exactly the same as Muslims about there book being direct word of God ? Because it's factually just not true

What exactly are you suggesting is the alternative? Because I've attended church all my life from Protestant to Baptist to Non-denominational and the Holy Bible = the word of God is pretty much a central tenant for pastor and deacon.

 

[Henkka]

It doesn't have to be about either banning or not banning guns. There are ways to drastically limit mass shootings with other regulations, imo. One is Japan-style regulations, where you have to pass multiple tests and get a license etc.

Why should civilians be able to have guns that carry more than, say, five bullets? Why do they have to fire as fast as you can pull the trigger? Why shouldn't all guns be "smart guns", that can be fired only when wielded by the owner?

Americans will probably think this is me calling for a nanny state. But I disagree. We all already agree the government should limit what kind of weapons civilians should be able to own. You can't plant mines in your yard. You can't own a tank. You can't own a Predator drone. Why should you be able to own an AR-15 as long as you don't have a criminal record? I can't think of a reason.

Think about that. Mines are a no-no, but a gun that can be used to shoot 100 people in a crowded space with ease is "freedom". What a fucking joke.

 

[Morrigan Stark]