Bernie Sanders demands Democratic Party reforms
- Thread starter chadskin
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Because they would lose large swaths of constituency if they were and would become even less competitive in the more conservative states than they already are leading to even more Republican domination at the state and local level than there already is.
Despite the demographic changes, bleeding college educated white voters who are no where near as progressive from an economic sense will lose them the election. Dem share of that demographic hovers at c.45%, 30% on non-college educated whites.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Comparative history, public policy, and political science are the best way to understand these discussions. This does not mean that you copy another country, it means that you reflect on issues through the lens of experiences across history and contemporary cases. If you want to tell non-Americans to keep their nose out of your business, fine, but don't pretend you're actually interested in improving your institutions or your quality of life.
sucks for you, maybe it will give you time to become more educated on the voting process.
No, I just found that non-Americans, when speaking about the American political system, essentially make the bizarro versions of all the flaws you were attributing to Americans.
Not really, these are still reasonable things regardless of whether or not you think caucasus are also bad.
Wafflecakes
Member
whyamihere
Banned
I think it's better for the party in general to have more semi-open primaries where Republicans are excluded and more liberal-leaning Independents are brought into the process. That also means the elimination of caucuses so more people can vote.
The DNC can't do anything about same-day voter registration. They can put it in their platform. They should, but ultimately that's up to states.
Getting rid of DWS is whatever. She sucks, but that's also weirdly vindictive in the same way that going after Barney Frank and Dan Malloy is weirdly vindictive.
The DNC can't do anything about same-day voter registration. They can put it in their platform. They should, but ultimately that's up to states.
Getting rid of DWS is whatever. She sucks, but that's also weirdly vindictive in the same way that going after Barney Frank and Dan Malloy is weirdly vindictive.
Exactly. You can argue over the chairperson, but these seem like reasonable requests.
As for Superdelegates, you may prevent a Trump, but you also prevent anyone that isn't a corporatist, establishment candidate from gaining traction.
These requests only seem crazy if you are a party zealot.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I've been caught
I'm actually a secret republican
where do I cash my check
I'm actually a secret republican
where do I cash my check
I agree, but it does gives his impression that his demands are more born from saltiness over his loss than genuine concern over how the DNC operates. The issue is that this is how most party related complaints are done and painting any concern about party protocol as loser whining allows the valid arguments to be swept under the table.
I don't believe a candidate with Bernie's platform and Hillary's experience would lose against today's opposition.
They are really talking about is McGovern.
Frankly if a politician can't win the voters over they don't deserve the White House and the ability to use its political power.
None of the other GOP candidates deserved to win compared to Trump. He was able to control the public narrative the way a politician must in order to implement change.
Replace "playing here for a week" with bronze/silver players and you get 95 percent of Reddit complaints.
Davey Cakes
Member
I love how people jump to mock the guy just because "he's the loser."
Whether or not he comes off as bitter is moot. He's not wrong about the need for reform, period.
Whether or not he comes off as bitter is moot. He's not wrong about the need for reform, period.
Who is this mythical candidate?
whyamihere
Banned
The DNC has no power over the states's voter registration laws. And people are, rightfully, annoyed that his call for open primaries does not at all mention the elimination of caucuses, which are much more undemocratic than closed primaries.
if you remove 1, which is a wash because she's gone anyway. and we take this slippery slope fallacy and throw it into the garbage to quit arguing 2, then you are left with a magical 4 and primary changes. Changes in which the DNC doesn't have sway over, so, sure I guess you need to be a party zealot to understand how a primary actually functions, this is pretty evident from Bernie's request and people throwing BS out there about the DNC needs to change primaries.
Already Torn
Banned
His way of reforming things are wrong though comma just look at how he wants to leave in caucuses period
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I live in America, I have a master's degree in comparative political science and public policy, I teach undergraduate political science, and I am a tech lead on a major national project that is used by newspapers, bloggers, and researchers-country wide to characterize political ideology of elected politicians in America and polarization between the political parties. I am sorry that this does not qualify me to assess American political institutions.
Because the Democratic Party wants to win elections. Like it or not progressive change in this country has always been slow because people are afraid of change/taxes. This country is founded on a hatred of taxes with be Boston tea party.
Aztechnology
Member
Honestly these are all good things in my book, regardless of my current outlook to him with his campaign. These are things that I think need to happen. Along with ridding ourselves of the electoral college and gerrymandering. Some day we'll get there, but not without people in the government pushing for it as well.
To be fair, there are a lot of poor arguments made in this manner that ignore the institutional problems unique to each country. In my experience lots of left wing people are willing to discount "reformist" approaches to lots of issues because they view things exclusively through this lens.
There is no legitimate justification for this. Trump was what Republican voters wanted! I actually like kirkblar's post on it, because at least it doesn't pull any punches:
This shows ignorance of the system. Primary elections are not the general election. The loser, if they get a significant amount of primary votes, absolutely does get to influence the party platform and perhaps rules. Unless you don't want the 11 million Sanders voters to come along in November?
Are there limits to what Bernie should get? Absolutely! The DNC denied Barnie Frank's removal as chair, for instance. He shouldn't get a blank check. He did lose. But Bernie's supporters are important to the party's future.
You're either being hilariously defensive or not understanding.
Edit: Even though this is a huge waste of time and your next response will probably just be about how you're actually the shadow President behind the throne, so how dare I question your credentials:
Your post was mocking the flaws of Americans who are participating about their own political system, and then mocking them with the strawman that they're claiming that the problem was foreigners and their god-danged analysis.
Foreigners are often just as ignorant, if not moreso, given that they actually have no experience inside said system and are coming from the opposite "bias" from American exceptionalism, as in Americans are different, and worse because they are different (which you engaged in yourself with your statement about conforming to OECD standards, but I was using a rhetorical device rather than calling you and only you out, so you don't need to PM me your CV).
Already Torn
Banned
But is it an Ivy League University or like some community college?
I was just about to say this lmao. Y'all loved him like a month ago.
He isn't saying these things because he's a loser, he's the only candidate who cared about changing shit.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but would you take the chance against today's opposition?
googleplex
Member
This implies that there is some huge difference between Bernie's and Hillary's platforms.
Spoiler: There isn't much difference at all.
Primaries, caucuses, and delegates have no place in real democracy. They were invented by government power brokers to protect their political cabal. It's why we only have two options in this country. The consolidation of power and political money/influence in the hands of two conservatively opposed non-profit organizations.
Work on your reading comprehension. I'm explaining that a leftward shock to the Democratic party wouldn't magically ensure GOP victories nationwide. Americans are much less ideological than we like to think. Sanders and Trump both prove that unthinkable policies can be well-received by many Americans.
This is a pretty disingenuous post. Universal higher education, single-payer healthcare, and higher minimum wage weren't in Clinton's agenda until Sanders ran. Hell, even her plans for finance regulation didn't come up until Bernie began discussing the danger of capitalist speculation.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Four is already a thing
One will probably happen anyway
Two is destructive and a terrible idea. Minority parties would basically be silenced in states they are outnumbered (think Democrats in the South, Republicans in New York). There's a reason closed primaries exist, and it's not to ensure Bernie doesn't win the nomination (Hillary won more open primaries)
Three is whatever. Doesn't really matter either way.
One will probably happen anyway
Two is destructive and a terrible idea. Minority parties would basically be silenced in states they are outnumbered (think Democrats in the South, Republicans in New York). There's a reason closed primaries exist, and it's not to ensure Bernie doesn't win the nomination (Hillary won more open primaries)
Three is whatever. Doesn't really matter either way.
Netherscourge
Banned
Can't he make these demands as a Senator?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I like how his petulant one-sided spat with DWS keep showing up. He even supports her nutjob opponent.
I'm on board with replacing her with Barney Frank tho, for maximum salt.
For Superdelegates, why shouldn't someone running for a party's position not be able to build consensus?
As far a platform, the people voted for the person they want to represent the platform.
Caucuses lol.
I'm on board with replacing her with Barney Frank tho, for maximum salt.
For Superdelegates, why shouldn't someone running for a party's position not be able to build consensus?
As far a platform, the people voted for the person they want to represent the platform.
Caucuses lol.
An proposal being incomplete doesn't mean it won't be an improvement.
Eh, little bit of column A, little lit of column B.
He can fuck off w/ the closed primaries nonsense. It's not so much to ask people to check a box to join an organization before voting on who should represent that organization. DWS is terrible, and if superdelegates aren't going to ever throw out the primary results they are useless anyway. No problem w/ making the platform more progessive -- there is always room for improvement
cpp_is_king
Member
Bern After Reading
His proposal is incomplete but he got time to be salty about DWS, come on son.
gutter_trash
Banned
Euro mythology.
Center-Left parties in Europe that you describe as ''social democrat'' are Establishment parties, Bourgeois and corporatists.
Many parties in European countries are named ''Socialist Party'' LOL in name only. They with the decades are Establishmently part of Politics as Usual corporatism
So the Euro myth is just that
Imperfected
Member
Most people aren't making fun of him because he's the loser.
They're making fun of him because he didn't start talking terms as soon as it became abundantly clear that he was the loser, but rather continued to devalue his endorsement and alienate his base from the party with a futile campaign and divisive rhetoric.
He could have conceded weeks ago, at which point he would have been in a good position to talk terms and help guide the Democrat platform. Instead, he chose to be childish and throw away all of his political capital on some blind hope of an eleventh hour win by technicality on a Clinton indictment or complete change in the primary process. His castle's been sacked and his army is dead, and now he's decided to come out and talk terms.
I think asking for non-closed primaries is asking for a political system that doesn't exist. The power has been consolidated. It's Bernie's attempt to break down the power of the democrats. I guess I understand why they would want to make it more difficult for certain types of people from voting. Enfranchisement as a goal only really matters for voting blocs that are favorable and amenable to traditional establishment goals.
I can give you multiple,
1) plularity is not majority ideally you want additional ballots where ppl drop off revote on new ballot etc
2) it's a party and you're well within your rights to go as an independent
3) the whole concept of why we just do votes on any legislation as a general populace vote
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