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[Figboy79]

Horrible.

This is not the way. I understand the anger and frustration and desire to lash out, I feel that way too, but this is not the way. Behavior like this only reinforces the fear and hatred that leads to the deaths we are trying to prevent in the first place.

Sigh. We have to be better than them. We don't have the luxury of expressing anger, let alone acting like fools and shooting them in an "eye for an eye" act of revenge. We can't afford to behave like this, as the actions of a few will be used to demonize all of us. Now the real issue is going to be buried under this shit.

RIP to the deceased officers. This is not the way. It's so frustrating. We want to be heard, but not like this.

 

[Sanjuro]

just a thought, but a remote controled robot would less likely to kill a person since the police officer doesn't have to fear for their own life

Are we absolutely certain this suspect provided no element of danger?

 

[redlegs87]

Warning very graphic

WTF man. some crazy stuff. When will this stuff just end please.

 

[googleplex]

I don't understand why you think even if police caught the dude he would tell them where the bombs were he had bombs on him he needed to be removed. It's better a robot blows up than 2 or 3 more officers getting shot. Why is this so hard for you to understand

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

 

[Bearjewpiter]

Robots are cheaper than human lives. Its why drones are used.

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

 

[akira28]

til: bomb disposal robots are actually bomb robots.

 

[wesleyshark]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

Sounds similar to a drone strike on the surface, but not entirely similar.

 

[Bubba T]

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

I think you read that post wrong.

 

[Mahonay]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

Please don't try and equate that to this right now. Wrong place wrong time.

 

[metalslimer]

I kind of wish I could become numb to this eventually. It happens often enough that I should be, but I'm sick every time.

I always end up with the same questions. When's the next mass shooting? When's the next act of police brutality? (The answer to both these things is always: probably pretty soon.) Why won't anyone do anything on a fundamental level to stop these things?

I also worry that this is going to set back the national conversation that needs to happen by years. People are going to become more defensive and entrenched and there won't be any middle left to discuss. We're heading into worse times, I fear.

It's really easy to fall into despair, but it's important to remember that we're living in some of the most peaceful times in the history our species. There are horrific acts occuring on a daily basis and we are long way from solving some of the institutional problems as a country, but that day will certainly come.

 

[Gattsu25]

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

He's(?) saying the opposite of what you think he's saying.

 

[Foggy]

Are we absolutely certain this suspect provided no element of danger?

From what I remember from the press conference: shooter was pinned down, negotiations took place, negotiations broke down, gunfire exchanged, robo-bomb. I don't think there was any reason to believe he posed no danger and every reason to believe he did.

 

[Nerd_Incognito]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

To clarify: they couldn't subdue him with flashbangs, or tear gas, or some other device?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

You didn't ask me, but I think for most people the problem with drone strikes isn't that they're "drones" doing it, it's that they tend to happen with little in the way of meaningful intelligence and as a politically sanitary way of conducting warfare around the world. None of those things really apply here, the only similarity is that the method of death was delivered via something being controlled remotely.

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

He said literally the opposite to what you think he said.

 

[wesleyshark]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

Stop.

 

[Mahonay]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

He was shooting at them.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

He was firing at them?

Why didn't they shoot the gun out of his hands?

 

[gamechanger87]

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

?????

I specifically stated that robots are cheaper than human lives. Its why they are used in drones and bomb defusal situations if necessary. I mean I couldn't be any clearer?

 

[Hip Hop]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude?

Because it was impossible to do so?

 

[The Albatross]

If human lives were cheaper then why was a robot used here, why not just send droves of cheap cops to take the guy out? Why do we use drones to bomb people and not just send a mob of cheap ass humans?

Maybe I've missed the point but unless you're making a philosophical statement about how little we value human life I'm gonna say robots and drones are still damn expensive and business owners don't generally throw away money if they don't have to.

Why would you try to intentionally misinterpret that person's otherwise innocuous point into something so ridiculous?

In his case, cheaper != "less money," he means it in "less costly to human life" or "less risky" or "less dangerous." E.g., it's less risky to human life to use a robot when confronting a homicidal maniac than it is to put more human lives in danger.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

Lets make this perfectly clear:

Drones = rockets made to take out buildings and vehicles (and everything close to them)

vs

EODbot = small precise charges made to destroy bombs and avoid destroying anything else

 

[Cyriades]

They want us to hate each other, Violence is never the answer. Violence doesn't stop violence! God Bless all those who lost their lives, Black and white, Cops and Civilians all alike. Four days of hell.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

You didn't ask me, but I think for most people the problem with drone strikes isn't that they're "drones" doing it, it's that they tend to happen with little in the way of meaningful intelligence and as a politically sanitary way of conducting warfare around the world. None of those things really apply here, the only similarity is that the method of death was delivered via something being controlled remotely.



He said literally the opposite to what you think he said.

He's(?) saying the opposite of what you think he's saying.

I think you read that post wrong.

?????

I specifically stated that robots are cheaper than human lives. Its why they are used in drones and bomb defusal situations if necessary. I mean I couldn't be any clearer?

Why would you try to intentionally misinterpret that person's otherwise innocuous point into something so ridiculous?

Wow I'm dumb. I got it now

 

[BokehKing]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

There are no innocents around but the target, totally different.

 

[ColdPizza]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

To clarify: they couldn't subdue him with flashbangs, or tear gas, or some other device?

Because he claimed to have explosives? What good would any of these magical devices have done?

 

[Gattsu25]

?????

I specifically stated that robots are cheaper than human lives. Its why they are used in drones and bomb defusal situations if necessary. I mean I couldn't be any clearer?

Nah, you were fine. We all read your post correctly.

Wow I'm dumb. I got it now

It happens. That's why God invented espresso shots.

 

[doctorblurg]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

Firing at officers after a four hour negotiation after you have already killed and shot at several people doesn't really give you a lot of chance to get out of situation alive.

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

Drone strikes usually involve the possibility of innocent people getting hurt. This guy was holed up by himself in a parking garage by himself, no civilians were around. Entirely different situation.

 

[Tagyhag]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

To clarify: they couldn't subdue him with flashbangs, or tear gas, or some other device?

You know a flashbang or tear gas doesn't knock you out like in video games right? He'd still be able to fire wildly.

And again, this guy was apparently ex-military, he probably knew what to do in that situation.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

There are no innocents around but the target, totally different.

So they don't use drones on single targets not surrounded by people?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Mistaken Dallas shooting "suspect" describes ordeal

damn

Mess.

 

[Foggy]

Why couldn't they apprehend this dude? Why did they have to kill him?

To clarify: they couldn't subdue him with flashbangs, or tear gas, or some other device?

Their robot with the blowdarts was on robot vacation

 

[Palculator]

Weird question. Do you see this in a different light then a drone strike?

It's extremely similar, but as I understand it, bomb defusal robots are completely remote controlled. Modern drones are partially autonomous because they are AI controlled. Might seem like a minor point, but since the defusal robot can't act on its own it's easy to view it as a tool/weapon for whoever officer is controlling it, whereas a drone is basically an autonomous killing machine we send into the field where responsibility becomes more muddy.

 

[Meier]

They just said his name on CNN. Micah Xavier Johnson, 25, from Mesquite, TX.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Dangerous path?

The guy shot dead 5 people, attempted to kill more and threatened law enforcement with explosives whilst refusing to stand down, despite negotiations.

The path was already bloody dangerous.

I not saying they shouldn't have used lethal force, if they shot him with their grenade launchers of all things I wouldn't have a problem. Again deciding to purposefully use the EOD bot as lethal force isn't something that I'll take comfort in especially with drone warfare being a thing. After all stuff like this:

Mistaken Dallas shooting "suspect" describes ordeal

damn

Is still the reason those protesters were out there last night. So I'm definitely not OK with giving the police go-aheads to use drones as lethal force.

 

[BokehKing]

So they don't use drones on single targets not surrounded by people?

What are we getting at here? It was either risk losing more lives or ending it right then and there

 

[Africanus]

While I might have preferred a more non-lethal method of taking down the suspect, and the use of a robot is certainly unorthodox, people must realize that this man A. Had no intention of surrendering peacefully. B. Was shooting and attempting to harm innocent officers to his last breath. C. Was said to have explosives.

 

[Mahonay]

So they don't use drones on single targets not surrounded by people?

A bomb disposal robot is closer to an RC car than a military drone.

While I might have preferred a more non-lethal method of taking down the suspect, and the use of a robot is certainly unorthodox, people must realize that this man A. Had no intention of surrendering peacefully. B. Was shooting and attempting to harm innocent officers to his last breath. C. Was said to have explosives.

My exact sentiment on this.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I feel people are looking for a "gotcha" on killing the shooter, but come on guys. The guy had killed four cops (and fatally wounded another one), and had shown he was pretty good at using a rifle.

This is definetly a special case.

 

[ColdPizza]

Is still the reason those protesters were out there last night. So I'm definitely not OK with giving the police go-ahaeds to use drones as lethal force.

I don't think this will become the norm.

 

[Gattsu25]

Mistaken Dallas shooting "suspect" describes ordeal

damn

I missed the start of this yesterday this morning, thanks for posting.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's extremely similar, but as I understand it, bomb defusal robots are completely remote controlled. Modern drones are partially autonomous because they are AI controlled. Might seem like a minor point, but since the defusal robot can't act on its own it's easy to view it as a tool/weapon for whoever officer is controlling it, whereas a drone is basically an autonomous killing machine we send into the field where responsibility becomes more muddy.

Really nothing about them is autonomous other than maintaining a stable flight circle. The fire commands are all done by humans. And even re: the flying, it's sort of an arbitrary distinction between automated drone patterns, auto-pilot on commercial planes, fly-by-wire on fighter jets etc. Essentially it's doing what a human wants it to do at all times, it's not making decisions.

 

[Nerd_Incognito]

I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm genuinely upset by everything and wanted this guy and whomever he was working with apprehended and brought to justice. I wanted him / them to answer for their crimes.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Mistaken Dallas shooting "suspect" describes ordeal

damn

Holy shit, they tried to get him by saying they had video of him shooting. WTF at this system.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

I not saying they shouldn't have used lethal force, if theyshot him with their grade launchers of all things I wouldn't have a problem. Again deciding to purposefully use the EOD bot as lethal force isn't something that I'll take comfort in especially with drone warfare being a thing.

He claimed to have explosives on him. Police don't defuse bombs, they detonate them with EOD bots that have small amounts of explosives on them.

This being used after an hour of failed negotiations and him shooting at them the entire time.

 

[Staf]

The only bad thing about using a robot to blow the scumbag up is the quick death as far as im concerned.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

So kblowing up the guy who knows where he planted bombs is the safest and most appropriate approach?

You sound vindictive in the last sentence of your first paragraph. You shouldn't let emotion get in the way of doing what is right. Setting off a bomb is dangerous regardless of who does it.

Yes, it was.

They had been negotiating with this individual for hours, where everything broke down at the end after the entire time this same individual was firing while this was all taking place.

This was an enclosed, as-close-to-fortified structure one could have in a public space. Thick concrete walls with thick columns of concrete and clear and conveniant lines of sight on the inside. Couple that with what looks like a copious amount of ammunition available and a stated bomb presence, whether a reality or bluff, the shooter could continue to operate and dictate the situation through force despite being cornered.

Cops couldn't approach the suspect from a different angle. There's no way to blow out any walls. People are continuing to get hurt, and now a bomb is in play.

Tear gas and concussion devices still allow time for a device to be triggered, and no idea if the suspectsuspect was prepared for either. There's no magical instant knock out gas or a robot that zaps people unconscious. So now there's either rush in with a bomb likely to be triggered as well as who knows how many more shot, or find another way to neutralize the threat. Thus, Chips the EOD bot. Who/It I may add wasn't some bomb ladden bot.

We have other avenues of finding explosives if need be. Most aren't made by mustache twirling villains where they have a timer that must be stopped within a second away from detonation to where time was a massive factor.

The reality of the situation made that the only course to stop the loss of innocent lives. And yes, that does include the cops at the scene.

 

[TheOctodad]

I don't get people that are super upset about this robot being used.

The police apprehended 3 of the 4 shooters alive and they tried for hours to talk this 4th one down - that's pretty impressive self-control. After how many cops got shot, I am surprised any of these shooters came out alive.

Was it the exact right thing to do? I have no idea. Was it understandable, justifiable, and smart? Absolutely. They were in a nightmare scenario and did the best they could IMO.

I have plenty of critiques of officers and am pissed beyond belief for the blatant murder here in Minneapolis of a young black man by cop. But everything I've seen in Dallas was police officers doing their best to be peaceful and supportive to the very end.

 

[maquiladora]

Any reason why they couldn't have at least tried to incapacitate him with a gas?

Extremely dangerous criminals have been detained numerous times without the police having to resort to using a robot with a bomb.

 

[AusRoachman]

Why do people care how they killed the guy , he was going to go down one way or another , why should cops put more lives on the line to save this scum?

If anything they showed restraint in negotiating with him for 4 hours .

 

[Leatherface]

While I might have preferred a more non-lethal method of taking down the suspect, and the use of a robot is certainly unorthodox, people must realize that this man A. Had no intention of surrendering peacefully. B. Was shooting and attempting to harm innocent officers to his last breath. C. Was said to have explosives.

There are a lot of instances that I would argue that there was no need for lethal force but this was not one of them. The police did what they had to do and took no chances. Enough people had already died and to risk more lives to take this dude alive is not worth the cost.

Why do people care how they killed the guy , he was going to go down one way or another , why should cops put more lives on the line to save this scum?

If anything they showed restraint in negotiating with him for 4 hours .

Exactly.