Obscuritas
Member
Perceived price/value ratio by consumers is far more important than power alone, and that probably will still be in Sony's favour for the next years.
PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
All this scorpio vs neo talk, imo it all comes down to price. Console market is very price sensetive. Hardcore/early adopters will buy regardless, but to hit high sales numbers the price have to be right. Neo is set to be much cheaper when the scorpio is launched, with a lower day one price and a potential price reduction after a year on the market. Scorpio will be expensive, anyone dreaming of a price point off 400-500$ will be very dissapointed. Phil has said its premium product with a premium price. Who knows, maybe Sony will do a MS at next years E3 to counter Scorpio introducing Playstation Project 4k. Anyways competition is good, because console will get more power at a faster rate. I just hope developers can keep up, because when we sit at home with our very powerful consoles we want games to push that hardware.
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
of course this isn't gonna be anywhere near a scorpio in terms of performance but it will be coming out much sooner and much cheaper than scorpio.
i'll be getting a Neo for sure. If i want to play games at a higher resolution framerate i'll just use my PC which is already more powerful than what scorpio will be.
i'll be getting a Neo for sure. If i want to play games at a higher resolution framerate i'll just use my PC which is already more powerful than what scorpio will be.
At the end of the day Sony is on a better position to have PS4 revision and a new true new gen one year before than MS.
dead monkey uk
Member
The specs in this document are the same as what was reported by Eurogamer/Giantbomb two months ago. The amount of people surprised/disappointed by the specs in this thread is a little strange.
Well in every thread post-Scorpio everyone was throwing around the 5.5TF figure like it was semi-confirmed, I'm not surprised at people reacting like this now.
Looking forward to an official announcement of this and seeing some new games on this hardware. New hardware is fun.
FF Seraphim
Member
I will be more surprised if the specs actually stay the same in everything that has leaked so far.
Considering the sources though and this is true with no real changes, I guess we will see something at TGS! Hopefully...
Yep, seems to line up with the more believable rumours that have been bouncing around.
I know that some were talking about it pretty much being a PlayStation 5 in all but name, but the earlier rumours of it being an expanded PlayStation 4 which could improve current games and that they'd position it almost as a replacement to the now traditional Slim iteration, appears to be what's happening here.
That doesn't mean that there won't also be a Slim variation at some point, but if there is and it isn't this, all PS4 variations will very much occupy the same PS4 space.
Although I see it almost as an iteration of the slim tradition, I'd much rather they maintained the size, reduced the noise and made it a far hardier machine. I hated the Xbox One design when it was first shown but I've really grown to love the build quality of the console.
The only disappointment for me is the HDD in the Neo, it seems that we won't get all benefits of using an SSD in this iteration of the console.
I'm very happy with everything else to do with this revision though, hopefully they'll be sensible with the price.
I know that some were talking about it pretty much being a PlayStation 5 in all but name, but the earlier rumours of it being an expanded PlayStation 4 which could improve current games and that they'd position it almost as a replacement to the now traditional Slim iteration, appears to be what's happening here.
That doesn't mean that there won't also be a Slim variation at some point, but if there is and it isn't this, all PS4 variations will very much occupy the same PS4 space.
Although I see it almost as an iteration of the slim tradition, I'd much rather they maintained the size, reduced the noise and made it a far hardier machine. I hated the Xbox One design when it was first shown but I've really grown to love the build quality of the console.
The only disappointment for me is the HDD in the Neo, it seems that we won't get all benefits of using an SSD in this iteration of the console.
I'm very happy with everything else to do with this revision though, hopefully they'll be sensible with the price.
people were throwing around the 5.5 because that's what the rx480 was going to be "up to" it was misguided hope that the neo would have the same chip without a downclock when the stock ps4 had a downclocked part. The consoles are closer to laptops than desktops as they have a limited TDP they jsut have the advantage of having a looser power limit due to being plugged into the wall.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
A mid gen upgrade that gives you over 200% performance boost is disappointing? This is not PS5, what where you expecting?
itslikely the neo will come in at the original launch price of the PS4 and the stock model will be further discounted.
Obscuritas
Member
That won't happen anytime soon, they both can coexist on the market as basic/premium skus.
wapplew
Member
These leaks are more like expectation management.
Sony need a wow factor when they finally announce it, could be the price, could be how the games look on it, could be a spec bump. Whatever it is, they hope to make you want to buy it immediately with the rumor Apple's "announce and release" strategy.
Sony need a wow factor when they finally announce it, could be the price, could be how the games look on it, could be a spec bump. Whatever it is, they hope to make you want to buy it immediately with the rumor Apple's "announce and release" strategy.
MilkyJoe
Member
Maybe from their business perspective, but from a customer perspective I know what one I'd rather have.
dead monkey uk
Member
Andrew House said recently in an interview both PS4 and Neo will continue to be produced and sold. He also said the Neo will be a premium PS4, so expect it to be more expensive.
I expect the PS4 to drop to $299 and still sell like hot cakes, with the Neo selling for $450/$499 and selling like warm cakes.
Actually the disappointing part stemmed from that Andrew House interview where he laughed his ass of when the interviewee told him that based on rumors Neo is really lacking in performance compared to Scorpio.
So yeah... normally, I expected more.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think that is how it went. Either AMD had a 14nm die shrink of Jaguar ready or the cost of it was minor compared to porting a huge power hungry GPU like the one Sony had.
Hilarious, but mandated that they release a day one neo patch. Will they up the res to 1080p and not do anything else? Yes. But at least it'll be a stable 1080p/30.
BossDarkseid
Member
got a link?
dead monkey uk
Member
4.2TF but as these documents are a few months old they are not final retail specs.
Original PS4: 8 cores at 1.6 GHz
NEO: 8 cores at 2.1 GHz (1.3x faster)

GPU:
Original PS4: 18 CUs at 800 MHz
NEO: 36 CUs at 911 MHz (2.3x FLOPs)

Memory:
Original PS4: 176 GB/s
NEO: 218 GB/s (1.24x)
Bitch Pudding
Member
We saw at the start of the XBOX360 generation how important a head start can be (if you don't screw it up, that is).
And a 2TF power advantage comes at a price - literally. They can't target the premium customers alone, they'll have to match the PS5's price tag as well. Big question is: Is this one year enough to be able to deliver a much more powerful console at the same price? And if so, will it make up for Sony's head start?
If MS thinks that the answer to both questions is "no", they might as well introduce a new gen at the very same time, matching PS5's price and power this time and getting their shit together during the introduction. No one stops them from delivering another premium SKU later on. But without a mass market compatible SKU, they are in deep trouble.
Hard to believe that kind of reaction from Andrew House. Link?
Regarding the NEO, I don't see myself buying it but seeing how the PC "world" is at the vanguard + PSVR about to be released, it makes sense.
MilkyJoe
Member
The flaw in that is that with the future consoles, well MS at least, being forward / back compatible, there is no hard reset at the beginning of a new generation. There is no need to go head to head. The console war has gone cold, my friend. It's a different game now.
edit, unless one of them really fucks it up somehow
wapplew
Member
I thought it was Jim Ryan.
Yes my bad on that, Jim Ryan is the correct name.
Osiris said Sony aimed at $399, with option for $499 box if they elect to use stronger hardware.
Officially, it will cost more than current PS4s [which are now $349].
dead monkey uk
Member
Yeah it was Jim, also after seeing Jim in a few interviews, I cannot imagine him laughing his ass off
Trust in Andrew House the great businessman lol
irrotational
Member
From Microsoft's point of view it's probably a shame that the transition from consumers being being locked in to hardware, to locked into the store, is happening now. (After they lost a big lead to PS).
I won't buy a Scorpio because it's more powerful than a neo, I'll buy it because I already have a ton of Xbox games.
Similarly when it comes out a lot of PS owners will stick with neo because that's where all their games are.
Essentially I think the console market has got very sticky, as consumers will have a lot to lose if they switch brands (stores).
So my point is, that if ms want the Scorpio to convince PS owners to switch, it's going to have to be a very "cheap" price. That may not be their strategy however, they may just want to retain their existing customers and make another round of money out of them.
I'd love to see the numbers on this. Scorpio may be their last chance to significantly shift the needle and coax people to get "stuck" in their store. So how much is that worth?
Fake edit - I'm including the ever greater switch to digital in my assumptions.
I won't buy a Scorpio because it's more powerful than a neo, I'll buy it because I already have a ton of Xbox games.
Similarly when it comes out a lot of PS owners will stick with neo because that's where all their games are.
Essentially I think the console market has got very sticky, as consumers will have a lot to lose if they switch brands (stores).
So my point is, that if ms want the Scorpio to convince PS owners to switch, it's going to have to be a very "cheap" price. That may not be their strategy however, they may just want to retain their existing customers and make another round of money out of them.
I'd love to see the numbers on this. Scorpio may be their last chance to significantly shift the needle and coax people to get "stuck" in their store. So how much is that worth?
Fake edit - I'm including the ever greater switch to digital in my assumptions.
TLZ
Banned
Did you read the slides?
Risk Breaker
Member
1080p Ultra will be pretty sweet though.
This is what I think will happen sooner rather than later. Neo is a "reverse slim" in the sense that it has added features. There is no need to redesign the current PS4 into a real slim version.
The only worry Sony should have is that third parties leverage Scorpio's advantages, but a lot of consoles will have been sold by then and it's time to start thinking and talking about PS5 - meaning it might be too late if MS considers Scorpio to be part of this generation. As for the fidelity of first party software I don't worry at all. I think the banner PS4 games will be able to compete with whatever MS cooks up on Scorpio.
Bitch Pudding
Member
True, and I wonder how the two will deal with this forward compatibility in the future.
Will every PS5 /XBOX 4 game really run on PS4 Neo / Scorpio? Or will there be true next-gen games which are - to put in market phrase - unprecedented and not possible on the old ones?
As much as the first option makes sense from a business point of view (as in: not a fresh start from scratch), it's hard to promote this one. Upgraded (hence more expensive) SKUs for premium customers, I get it. But introducing a complete new generation to the masses (!) out there and telling them "well, all the new games actually also work on your old consoles" is not a super convincing proposition.
MilkyJoe
Member
Two ways of looking at it though. People can jump in whenever they are ready and devs know they have a massive customer base to sell to and may play things less safe.
As already posted by many others in this thread; this document seems to be the same source as other news outlets reported on 3-ish months ago. Nothing is set in stone until Sony says so. PS4 had a very last minute boost to ‎8 GBs of GDDR5 ram; suprising many developers who were present at the PS4 announcement. For now, the only thing we know are the 'baseline' specs.
No, this isn't the same one. This is the documentation that came after the initial announcement of the neo. That one came with documentation about mandated 1080p and whatnot.
The slides regarding 'Thank you for telling is your findings' indicates that this is the second or maybe the third document. Probably the second, though.
Ah, ok; I've been a bit out of the loop
Has the actual age of this document been verified?Ah, ok; I've been a bit out of the loop
16th of April, I believe. It IS weird that GB reported on the 18th about the Neo, so you might think that they used this document. However, they have different information specifically about resolution, bugs that occur during neo or base mode, exclusive content for either base or neo, forward patching not allowed for neo titles and more.
So it's different, but I do admit it's weird that they reported on an earlier document in the same month.
Dead_Pixel
Banned
Must have been nervous laughter!
Cheers for that.
Not sure what the checkerboard rendering technique is and how that will help the Neo achieve 4K,
Probably alternating squares of the previous frame and next frame.
dead monkey uk
Member
If you want to read about checkerboard rendering, google checkerboard rendering rainbow 6 siege presentation.
Edit: here is a link http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022990/Rendering-Rainbow-Six-Siege
Caayn
Member
It's similar to the technique Killzone Shadowfalls uses in multiplayer.
But instead of rendering even/uneven pixels every other frame you render in a checkerboard pattern like a chess grid for example. In frame A you render all pixels in a white field on the chess grid and in frame B you render all pixels in a black spot on the chess grid.
So in frame A you render all white fields and the black fields are based on the previous frame and current frame's neighbouring pixels. For frame B you do the same but this time you render the black fields and base the white fields on previous frame and current frame neighbouring pixels.
This essentially renders the image in half the normal resolution and reconstructs it before outputting the image. Rainbow Six Siege and Quantum Break are games that currently uses this technique (afaik).