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[nelsonroyale]

That site has an article saying as Marxists we should resist Pokemon Go.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/pokemon-go-pokestops-game-situationist-play-children/

That doesn't really help the image of hard-Left living in a reality bubble.

How about this then? LSE and actual empirical research.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/Mainstream-Media-Representations-of-Jeremy-Corbyn.aspx

I mean being from the UK, you would have to be literally living in a bubble not to recognise the absolute hatchet job the press has been doing on Corbyn.

 

[Par Score]

I am loathe to link to Guido, but this is a fairly stock summary of Owen Smith's shocking dog whistle homophobia.

I’m glad you think I’m normal. I am normal. I grew up in a normal household. I’ve got a wife and three children. My wife is a primary school teacher.

When your opponents include a childless lesbian woman, this can't be taken as anything other than coded homophobia. It is frankly disgraceful and should hopefully end any hopes of Smith becoming Labour leader.

It's the sort of campaigning the Tories used against Portillo and it should have no place in our party. I am legit shook, and increasingly pissed off, that this could happen.

 

[kmag]

How about this then? LSE and actual empirical research.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/Mainstream-Media-Representations-of-Jeremy-Corbyn.aspx

I mean being from the UK, you would have to be literally living in a bubble not to recognise the absolute hatchet job the press has been doing on Corbyn.

And? If it's worse than what Brown and Red Ed got that's because he's pissed off almost all of his colleagues and all of the natural friends he'd have in the media (except Vice News and even that was disastrous for him) via his approach of media disengagement.

Right wing press hate Labour leader shocker. They might hate this Labour leader more than previous ones but he's hardly helped matters. He's only really got the one topic to bang on about, doesn't do media, is abjectly awful at PMQ's, and as you'd expect for an opposition at this point in the cycle no real policies.

Without any sort of control or look at the coverage other Labour leaders got it's hard to make any conclusions about just how hard Corbyn's got it. I mean I think it's noticeable that Guardian hasn't been on board, and the Mirror has been lukewarm in their support, but the Guardian basically turned to the Lib Dems during the Brown years.

Ultimately a Labour leader needs to find a way to cut through the negative media.

 

[PJV3]

I am loathe to link to Guido, but this is a fairly stock summary of Owen Smith's shocking dog whistle homophobia.


When your opponents include a childless lesbian woman, this can't be taken as anything other than coded homophobia. It is frankly disgraceful and should hopefully end any hopes of Smith becoming Labour leader.

It's the sort of campaigning the Tories used against Portillo and it should have no place in our party. I am legit shook, and increasingly pissed off, that this could happen.

I just think he means unremarkable unless primary school teacher has a hidden meaning I'm unaware of.

I could be wrong, but I don't know his history in that area.

 

[Par Score]

I just think he means unremarkable unless primary school teacher has a hidden meaning I'm unaware of.

I could be wrong, but I don't know his history in that area.

If you haven't watched the video, I think it's pretty damning.

Striking similarity to Leadsom's comments about her motherhood as a comparator to May's childlessness, but with just a sprinkling of homophobia.

Bringing up your "normal" "ordinary" "wife and three children" in a contest against someone who just happens to be a childless lesbian woman is at best tactless, but this is a disappointingly common line of subtle attack against LGBT politicians the world over.

It's the American style of "Family Values" coded homophobia, and it should have no place in Labour.

 

[PJV3]

If you haven't watched the video, I think it's pretty damning.

Striking similarity to Leadsom's comments about her motherhood as a comparator to May's childlessness, but with just a sprinkling of homophobia.

Bringing up your "normal" "ordinary" "wife and three children" in a contest against someone who just happens to be a childless lesbian woman is at best tactless, but this is a disappointingly common line of subtle attack against LGBT politicians the world over.

It's the American style of "Family Values" coded homophobia, and it should have no place in Labour.

Maybe, I watched the video, he was also talking about his various jobs and growing up in the patch he represents etc.

I don't see that dog whistle working much as a strategy in a labour party full of leftie momentum types and a very liberal PLP, i could be wrong but I think he was just playing with Labour being about its working class roots and normal ordinary people blah, blah, blah.

If he is being homophobic then fuck him.

 

[D4Danger]

If you haven't watched the video, I think it's pretty damning.

Striking similarity to Leadsom's comments about her motherhood as a comparator to May's childlessness, but with just a sprinkling of homophobia.

Bringing up your "normal" "ordinary" "wife and three children" in a contest against someone who just happens to be a childless lesbian woman is at best tactless, but this is a disappointingly common line of subtle attack against LGBT politicians the world over.

It's the American style of "Family Values" coded homophobia, and it should have no place in Labour.

I want to believe it's not as vindictive as that but the wording is definitely dated. "Normal" is such a bullshit word to use these days.

 

[And_Gignac]

I am loathe to link to Guido, but this is a fairly stock summary of Owen Smith's shocking dog whistle homophobia.


When your opponents include a childless lesbian woman, this can't be taken as anything other than coded homophobia. It is frankly disgraceful and should hopefully end any hopes of Smith becoming Labour leader.

It's the sort of campaigning the Tories used against Portillo and it should have no place in our party. I am legit shook, and increasingly pissed off, that this could happen.

Wow. This is their main guy against Corbyn? Really gross.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The back benchers currently tearing Jeremy and the front bench to shreds every time one of the nutters is allowed to speak.
They are literally doing the Tories job for them.
Keep that for private conversation, don't air that shit in public. You're burning down your own party.

 

[Hazzuh]

The back benchers currently tearing Jeremy and the front bench to shreds every time one of the nutters is allowed to speak.
They are literally doing the Tories job for them.
Keep that for private conversation, don't air that shit in public. You're burning down your own party.

Corbyn is the one who is ignoring the decision of the shadow cabinet and the manifesto on which he was elected. I didn't see his statement but he apparently refused to set out the position of the party which he had previously promised to.

 

[kirblar]

The back benchers currently tearing Jeremy and the front bench to shreds every time one of the nutters is allowed to speak.
They are literally doing the Tories job for them.
Keep that for private conversation, don't air that shit in public. You're burning down your own party.

Corbin lost a NC vote, that was only nonbinding because the rulemakers never imagined someone could be so much enough of a self-centered asshole to ignore it.

 

[Audioboxer]

Who are these people that dislike Corbyn? I am yet to find a personthat I've personally talked to that dislikes him.

Corbyn is a very principled and moral man.

That's not good enough in the modern political world. People want cuthroat, loud and nefarious cunts to offer a cunting good cunt-attack at whoever the current cunt Tory leader is.

In other words our country is a mess and morals, kindness and principles are pushed aside for a leader popularity contest based around who is the most bad ass. Corbyn is the smart, rather quiet geeky school kid. Hey, ain't nobody hanging around that kid, they're all clambering over the cool dude saying the craziest shit the loudest.

Rich posh popular twats gonna twat the UK out of Europe and into a further economic mess paid for by the tears of the poor, disabled and ethnic.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

If Corbyn wins this leadership contest, then these MPs have torpedoed their own party. Like I said, you keep this crap private. They're like kids having public tantrums.
Corbyn shouldn't be leader IMO, but there's a time and place. A Labour MP should not be calling their leader incompetent in the house of commons while being cheered by the Tories. What the hell are they even thinking?

 

[kmag]

The back benchers currently tearing Jeremy and the front bench to shreds every time one of the nutters is allowed to speak.
They are literally doing the Tories job for them.
Keep that for private conversation, don't air that shit in public. You're burning down your own party.

The Labour parties position on Trident is reasonably clear it was in their manifesto and passed both their internal policy making body and their conference post election. As much I want rid of Trident. The leader can't bring himself to support the parties stated position he shouldn't be leader.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Corbyn is a very principled and moral man.

That's not good enough in the modern political world. People want cuthroat, loud and nefarious cunts to offer a cunting good cunt-attack at whoever the current cunt Tory leader is.

In other words our country is a mess and morals, kindness and principles are pushed aside for a leader popularity contest based around who is the most bad ass.

This feels like a bit of a strawman considering he seems pretty incompetent behind the scenes as well, and not just because of "Blairites hate him! One Neat Trick To Take Over The Labour Party."

 

[Jackpot]

The back benchers currently tearing Jeremy and the front bench to shreds every time one of the nutters is allowed to speak.
They are literally doing the Tories job for them.
Keep that for private conversation, don't air that shit in public. You're burning down your own party.

I agree in part, but you have to remember that the official party platform for Labour is pro-Trident. They are following the party line.

 

[Audioboxer]

This feels like a bit of a strawman considering he seems pretty incompetent behind the scenes as well, and not just because of "Blairites hate him! One Neat Trick To Take Over The Labour Party."

It is largely because Labour had turned into Tory-lite. Corbyn inherited that shit stain of a party.

Unless he had the power to sack every single Labour MP who is a tory in disguise and start over, it was always going to be this big a mess. Sure a large chunk of them have resigned now, but they've spent years creating an unsolvable mess and fighting about everything.

Labour will have it's way, Corbyn will probably be gone soon enough and you can welcome in your Tory-lite leader 2.0.

 

[kmag]

If Corbyn wins this leadership contest, then these MPs have torpedoed their own party. Like I said, you keep this crap private. They're like kids having public tantrums.
Corbyn shouldn't be leader IMO, but there's a time and place. A Labour MP should not be calling their leader incompetent in the house of commons while being cheered by the Tories. What the hell are they even thinking?

They're standing up for their parties stated position. Corbyn is the one who despite standing up as leader of the opposition is presenting his own position not the position of the party. Regardless of peoples position on Trident or the ongoing split in Labour, the MP's are quite entitled to stand up for their parties official position.

 

[Quixzlizx]

It is largely because Labour had turned into Tory-lite. Corbyn inherited that shit stain of a party.

Unless he had the power to sack every single Labour MP who is a tory in disguise and start over, it was always going to be this big a mess. Sure a large chunk of them have resigned now, but they've spent years creating an unsolvable mess.

Labour will have it's way, Corbyn will probably be gone soon enough and you can welcome in your Tory-lite leader 2.0.

You kind of ignored the second half of my post, but I guess if you are going by the assumption that anyone to the left right of Momentum is "Tory-lite," you're going to be salty about it regardless.

 

[Audioboxer]

You kind of ignored the second half of my post, but I guess if you are going by the assumption that anyone to the left of Momentum is "Tory-lite," you're going to be salty about it regardless.

I guess so, but it's not for me to worry about at the end of the day. Hopefully soon enough Scotland will be away on our own and we won't really have to care about the state of English politics.

I like Corbyn and cared about the policies and things he stands for, and that is what is important to me in a leader. Not a popularity contest. Although I'll admit if you can't have your party voting largely in unison either you need to join another party, or create a new party altogether.

So I'll happily admit he's doomed, but sure by your reckoning you can say I'm salty that the party who has a chance to oppose the Tories while we are currently the UK might as well just merge with the Tories.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Owen Smith comes across as very naive here. After Leadsom got destroyed by her "I'm a mum" comments, any leadership candidate has got to avoid being baited with an interviewer saying, "Perhaps your being 'normal' is an asset".
Owen Smith not only fell into that trap but doubled down on it by bringing his wife and kids into it.

I'm going to go with Hanlon's Razor on this one, but he only get to make that mistake once. If he brings up his wife and kids again (while running against Eagle), it's a clear dogwhistle.

I'm also getting confused by some media commentators worrying that Owen/Eagle will split the vote and cause Corbyn to win.
Just checking I'm not insane and that the Labour leader vote uses AV voting, making a split vote impossible.
Voters for 'Anyone but Corbyn' will give Eagle/Owen their first two preferences, so Corbyn is defeated unless he gets >50% of the vote.

Corbyn seems like a shoo-in though. I think we just have to resign ourselves to 9 years of Tory dominance and no real opposition (4 years of Corbyn, 5 years of massive Tory majority).
When May beats Corbyn by a landslide, his support will fall away and we might get someone useful. Maybe Jarvis will go for it once his kids are grown up. Maybe Sadiq Khan can get a parliamentary seat at the end of his mayoral period, like Boris did.

I think Corbyn will have to be shown to fail before his supporters will abandon him. Currently, his supporters actually think he speaks for the 'traditional labour voter' and think he'll somehow get them all voting, and that they vastly outnumber the middle-class centrists that flip-floped between Major/Blair/Cameron.
My biggest worry is that the left becomes a permanent squabble between Old Labour, New Labour, the Liberals, the Greens and the SNP.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Corbin lost a NC vote, that was only nonbinding because the rulemakers never imagined someone could be so much enough of a self-centered asshole to ignore it.

If they had anyone even half reasonable in the running to take the position, you'd have a good point.

But given the competition they were able to drudge up to challenge Corbyn, fuck it, might as well let him keep the job

 

[Baybars]

Corbyn is a very principled and moral man.

That's not good enough in the modern political world. People want cuthroat, loud and nefarious cunts to offer a cunting good cunt-attack at whoever the current cunt Tory leader is.

In other words our country is a mess and morals, kindness and principles are pushed aside for a leader popularity contest based around who is the most bad ass. Corbyn is the smart, rather quiet geeky school kid. Hey, ain't nobody hanging around that kid, they're all clambering over the cool dude saying the craziest shit the loudest.

Rich posh popular twats gonna twat the UK out of Europe and into a further economic mess paid for by the tears of the poor, disabled and ethnic.

Principled men do not stand and watch one of his own jewish MPs get attacked by loonies from momentum

 

[Giant Panda]

Corbyn is a very principled and moral man.

That's not good enough in the modern political world. People want cuthroat, loud and nefarious cunts to offer a cunting good cunt-attack at whoever the current cunt Tory leader is.

In other words our country is a mess and morals, kindness and principles are pushed aside for a leader popularity contest based around who is the most bad ass. Corbyn is the smart, rather quiet geeky school kid. Hey, ain't nobody hanging around that kid, they're all clambering over the cool dude saying the craziest shit the loudest.

Rich posh popular twats gonna twat the UK out of Europe and into a further economic mess paid for by the tears of the poor, disabled and ethnic.

Corbyn is principled, but that doesn't make his principles good. I'm sure he sincerely believes in all of his stupid ideas.

 

[Coriolanus]

They're standing up for their parties stated position. Corbyn is the one who despite standing up as leader of the opposition is presenting his own position not the position of the party. Regardless of peoples position on Trident or the ongoing split in Labour, the MP's are quite entitled to stand up for their parties official position.

This argument is a bit redundant. Sure, you can argue that it is the party's position and they're justified in their conduct, but it is just as easy to argue that the members voted in massive numbers for a leader that was against it, thus, the will of the party changed, and the other MP's are unwilling to reflect that.

Obv there's no excuse for not trying to change the party's position as soon as he got the job.

fair enuff, thanks cykerab

 

[CyclopsRock]

This argument is a bit redundant. Sure, you can argue that it is the party's position and they're justified in their conduct, but it is just as easy to argue that the members voted in massive numbers for a leader that was against it, thus, the will of the party changed, and the other MP's are unwilling to reflect that.

Obv there's no excuse for not trying to change the party's position as soon as he got the job.

The vote at the party conference was after his election.

 

[Beefy]

@bbclaurak
Meeting of Smith supporting MPs just broken up, seemed about 30 or so, all off to nominate him.

@bbclaurak
I'm told no talk of a deal in the meeting but lots of MPs expecting there to be some kind of agreement tmrw.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I agree in part, but you have to remember that the official party platform for Labour is pro-Trident. They are following the party line.

But you can vote against the leader without resorting to insulting him and calling him names in the Commons.

 

[CyclopsRock]

But you can vote against the leader without resorting to insulting him and calling him names in the Commons.

I don't understand why you have this idea that they're somehow being childish though. They clearly don't want him as their leader - most MPs, far more than most voters and even members, have given their whole lives to the party in the pursuit of electoral success and they don't want to sit back and watch someone they disagree with crash the party.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Owen Smith comes across as very naive here. After Leadsom got destroyed by her "I'm a mum" comments, any leadership candidate has got to avoid being baited with an interviewer saying, "Perhaps your being 'normal' is an asset".
Owen Smith not only fell into that trap but doubled down on it by bringing his wife and kids into it.

I'm going to go with Hanlon's Razor on this one, but he only get to make that mistake once. If he brings up his wife and kids again (while running against Eagle), it's a clear dogwhistle.

Yeah, I agree. I think he just didn't realise the potential implications, he was basically baited into it by the interviewer. I mean, that in itself is... not good, considering being Prime Minister is 50% not being baited in interviews/the Commons, but I don't think it was an intended jab at Eagle.

I'm also getting confused by some media commentators worrying that Owen/Eagle will split the vote and cause Corbyn to win.
Just checking I'm not insane and that the Labour leader vote uses AV voting, making a split vote impossible.
Voters for 'Anyone but Corbyn' will give Eagle/Owen their first two preferences, so Corbyn is defeated unless he gets >50% of the vote.

I think it's more a matter of "splitting attention" than splitting votes. If Eagle and Smith have to dedicate half their time to explaining why they're better than the other one, that's that much time less explaining why they're better than Corbyn. As an analogy, look at the RNC race in America: if there had been a single not-Trump candidate, Trump probably wouldn't have won, but none of Bush/Kasich/Rubio/etc. could co-ordinate on who it was supposed to be and they spent most of their time critically wounding each other in debates in an attempt to establish themselves as the definitive anti-Trump candidate. Trump himself was often barely targeted in the debates as a result, allowing him to go virtually unchallenged.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The vote at the party conference was after his election.

The vote was by CLP delegates, who aren't really selected on the basis of their views, though - it's usually a de facto seniority thing. I think it's quite plausible that among the wider Labour membership, anti-renewal would win. Not seen any polling to know eitherw ay, but just pointing out that the conference being against it =/= the party (in the wider sense incl. the membership) is against it.

Labour is in a weird stage of democratizing internally at the moment, and the avenues for grassroots participation are actually more strongly controlled by the establishment than the upper echelons.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/755155521418715141

YouGov polling of eligible Labour party members shows Corbyn absolutely crushing Eagle and Smith - 56-34 against Smith and 58-34 against Eagle. Both are within the MoE of each other so it isn't clear who would be the stronger challenger... but it doesn't seem to matter.

Interestingly, until the end of last month, a narrow majority of Labour members wanted Corbyn to go... but it seems that the prospect of the unity candidates flipped that. I think that backs my theory earlier that there's not actually much personal support for Corbyn, people just hate all the others more.

Bear in mind a 2 month campaign could change all this, but... I think the Labour Party is going to split. Pretty confident now.

 

[pigeon]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/755155521418715141

YouGov polling of eligible Labour party members shows Corbyn absolutely crushing Eagle and Smith - 56-34 against Smith and 58-34 against Eagle. Both are within the MoE of each other so it isn't clear who would be the stronger challenger... but it doesn't seem to matter.

Interestingly, until the end of last month, a narrow majority of Labour members wanted Corbyn to go... but it seems that the prospect of the unity candidates flipped that. I think that backs my theory earlier that there's not actually much personal support for Corbyn, people just hate all the others more.

Bear in mind a 2 month campaign could change all this, but... I think the Labour Party is going to split. Pretty confident now.

Honestly, it seems like it probably should.

Existing Labour MPs jump ship, join up with the Lib Dems, come up with a new name, and form a clearly pro-EU, pro-globalization, probably anti-austerity party. Unfortunately all the good party names have apparently been taken by fascists but I'm sure they can come up with something. I'm not sure whether they get pro-EU Tories after May's recent work but who knows, they might.

Leave the rest of Labour to be the rump, serious socialist minor party that people want Labour to be. If the demand is there they can prove it by winning.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Labour party would be mad to split to then form a pro-EU party. Again, outside London, 87.1% of Labour seats voted remain. Inside London, Labour are safe as houses regardless. There's no win that decision. Given that the EU vote was really just a particular manifestation of anti-globalization sentiments, a pro-globalization split would also just kill off the careers of whoever did that. I actually think a Corbyn-led Labour Party would do better than the, I don't know, "Social Democrats mk.II" in a general election - who is the base of this new party? Because I can't spot them.

That said, they're just mad enough to do something that politically stupid, so who knows?

 

[kmag]

Labour party would be mad to split to then form a pro-EU party. Again, outside London, 87.1% of Labour seats voted remain. Inside London, Labour are safe as houses regardless. There's no win that decision. Given that the EU vote was really just a particular manifestation of anti-globalization sentiments, a pro-globalization split would also just kill off the careers of whoever did that. I actually think a Corbyn-led Labour Party would do better than the, I don't know, "Social Democrats mk.II" in a general election - who is the base of this new party? Because I can't spot them.

That said, they're just mad enough to do something that politically stupid, so who knows?

It's funny while I don't think the PLP have been particularly smart about their coup, I do think there is some political logic to it, if you know you're heading towards absolute annihilation under one leader then pretty much any change should be better. Of course you've got be able to push through that change. Having said that I do think probably a majority of the PLP aren't actually plotters, they just were terribly angry about the EU ref result, Corbyn (rightfully) was a target and all the other resentment was enough to push almost all of them over the edge. By all accounts, Corbyn's leadership has been dysfunctional even when the majority of the PLP was attempting to make a proper go of it.

 

[travisbickle]

That site has an article saying as Marxists we should resist Pokemon Go.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/07/pokemon-go-pokestops-game-situationist-play-children/

That doesn't really help the image of hard-Left living in a reality bubble.

Thanks for this. Any article that mentions the Situationists is a good article. And I like how you don't understand the irony of using the phrase "reality bubble".

 

[CyclopsRock]

The vote was by CLP delegates, who aren't really selected on the basis of their views, though - it's usually a de facto seniority thing. I think it's quite plausible that among the wider Labour membership, anti-renewal would win. Not seen any polling to know eitherw ay, but just pointing out that the conference being against it =/= the party (in the wider sense incl. the membership) is against it.

Labour is in a weird stage of democratizing internally at the moment, and the avenues for grassroots participation are actually more strongly controlled by the establishment than the upper echelons.

Sure, but that vote *is* a functioning part of how they define their platform, right?

 

[PJV3]

Seeing the mood of the membership I think I prefer a quick divorce and the party dying.

Corbyn is useless, the PLP is clueless.

 

[Mindwipe]

Honestly, it seems like it probably should.

Existing Labour MPs jump ship, join up with the Lib Dems, come up with a new name, and form a clearly pro-EU, pro-globalization, probably anti-austerity party. Unfortunately all the good party names have apparently been taken by fascists but I'm sure they can come up with something. I'm not sure whether they get pro-EU Tories after May's recent work but who knows, they might.

Leave the rest of Labour to be the rump, serious socialist minor party that people want Labour to be. If the demand is there they can prove it by winning.

While I agree a split is likely, I can't see that the Lib Dem membership would be terribly interested in joining a party made up of the centrist authoritarian PLP.

The Lib Dems are, y'know, socially liberal. Unlike the PLP. This new party would find itself broken in half just as much as the Labour party is.

Labour party would be mad to split to then form a pro-EU party. Again, outside London, 87.1% of Labour seats voted remain. Inside London, Labour are safe as houses regardless. There's no win that decision. Given that the EU vote was really just a particular manifestation of anti-globalization sentiments, a pro-globalization split would also just kill off the careers of whoever did that. I actually think a Corbyn-led Labour Party would do better than the, I don't know, "Social Democrats mk.II" in a general election - who is the base of this new party? Because I can't spot them.

That said, they're just mad enough to do something that politically stupid, so who knows?

The PLP ignored the fact they'd alienated their entire membership base until everything collapsed around them before. I genuinely think they just believe they have a right to be a serious political party and don't grasp that they need grassroots support to continue to exist.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The Lib Dems are, y'know, socially liberal. Unlike the PLP. This new party would find itself broken in half just as much as the Labour party is.

This is a fair comment. What would actually happen would be a special conference where we'd agree on terms of an alliance, rather than forming some super-party immediately.

Plus having a liberal wing is a lot better than a Trotskyite wing. I think most Labour MPs would see it as a good thing. At least until they are sitting next to a Lib Dem and the issue of electoral reform comes up.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Sure, but that vote *is* a functioning part of how they define their platform, right?

Absolutely! I'm just saying there's plausible room for Corbyn to defend his position as supporting the views of the membership against the false grip of the establishment, and for that to be a plausible statement.

 

[travisbickle]

This is a fair comment. What would actually happen would be a special conference where we'd agree on terms of an alliance, rather than forming some super-party immediately.

Plus having a liberal wing is a lot better than a Trotskyite wing. I think most Labour MPs would see it as a good thing. At least until they are sitting next to a Lib Dem and the issue of electoral reform comes up.

You mean a Labour movement wing? Labour's going to gut itself of any pretence to stand for labourers and people think it will succeed.

 

[Crispy75]

New polling of party members

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/jeremy-corbyn-support-rises-among-party-members/

 

[kmag]

New polling of party members

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/jeremy-corbyn-support-rises-among-party-members/

The tables are interesting. It's post September 2015 'members' who are pro Corbyn, overwhelmingly so.

This really is a takeover.

 

[Camp Freddie]

I can't really see a party split because who would vote for the PLP-rebels. They'd split the Labour vote and lose their seats. They need to either take control of Labour or leave.
As someone said above, I don't know what the Labour rebels would stand for. The socially 'meh' and the economically not-quite-socialists?

While a lot of regular labour members are against Corbyn, I don't think they're pro-splitting, so the rebels won't take much of their support with them.

I think most Labour MPs are far too socialist and authoritarian to fit into a Liberal Alliance Mk2. I don't know much about Owen Smith, but he does seem like a proper Labour man rather than a left liberal playing lip-service to socialism.

I think the coup will fail and many rebel MPs will find themselves being deselected. Some on the socially liberal side of the party might defect to the Lib Dems or attempt an independent challenge, but most will be stranded.

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, but I just don't see a way out at the moment - except to allow Corbyn to become the left wing equivalent of Michael Howard and get kicked out once it's really obvious that the public vote won't support him.

A centrist alliance seems like a pipe dream, unless May takes a really hard right isolationist/authoritarian turn and Davis is allowed to proceed with a maximum Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I agree with Freddie. I think the least bad plausible future is that Corbyn just leads into a general election to face not so glorious defeat, and that'll damage enough of his appeal.

 

[kmag]

I agree with Freddie. I think the least bad plausible future is that Corbyn just leads into a general election to face not so glorious defeat, and that'll damage enough of his appeal.

A couple of brave Labour MP's in marginals could probably stop it getting to that point by becoming Crown Stewards for the day.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

A couple of brave Labour MP's in marginals could probably stop it getting to that point.

What do you mean?

 

[kmag]

What do you mean?

Resign. Force a series of byelections which Labour would lose. That should sharpen the minds of the membership somewhat although I'm sure they'd try to rationalise it. No one could blame any Labour MP for wanting out.

 

[Morat]

Resign. Force a series of byelections which Labour would lose. That should sharpen the minds of the membership somewhat although I'm sure they'd try to rationalise it. No one could blame any Labour MP for wanting out.

Attempting to save the party from losing an election by deliberately loosing elections seems....odd? to me