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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin
- Thread starter Hazzuh
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List of people who nominated Smith for those who are interested.
Ed Miliband and Margaret Beckett (who nominated Corbyn lol) stand out. Also for the person calling him a homophobe, a see a number of gay MPs, Stephen Twigg, Gerald Jones, Chris Bryant.
Ed Miliband and Margaret Beckett (who nominated Corbyn lol) stand out. Also for the person calling him a homophobe, a see a number of gay MPs, Stephen Twigg, Gerald Jones, Chris Bryant.
What policies there's haven't actually been any. He's upped the rhetoric but it's still largely Milibandian policies. Since the fiscal charter u-turn they've been very careful not to put anything down on paper.
And again I'd refer to the YouGov poll of Labour members, new members are extremely pro Corbyn but long term members not so much
whyamihere
Banned
I think something a lot of Professional Leftists don't really understand is leadership and management skills are paramount to any party leader. Controlling your caucus and leading your caucus effectively is a necessary skill, and one that we don't tend to value when we pick our leaders. The PLP hasn't helped by some trying to undermine Corbyn from the get go, but watch the Professional Left now claim Thangsim Debonaaires is a dirty Blairite. Or something.
In the end, the PLPs biggest problem with this is that they kicked up a fuss far too soon. Corbyn is popular with the membership and unfortunately, as a result of the pretty powerful early opposition Corbyn had as leader within the own party from the PLP, the membership has dismissed the PLP's opinion on the matter.
They could have not spent the last twenty years shitting on their base so they found they had no underlying support when this inevitably happened.
They could have used the time they were in power to make meaningful parliamentary reform instead of laughing about how everything about our broken electoral system was hunky dory, because they were in charge!
They could have not serially fucked up on a number of issues of basic competence in reading legislation.
They could have had a talent development strategy designed to get good MPs in to positions of professional competence so they might be ready instead of a combination of loudmouth gobshites and clique-ish pals.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I updated the title to reflect that Eagle dropped out, unfortunately we have pretty limited title space. I would say that when the candidates for leadership and the vote date for the leadership review is finalized and we have a good idea of what's going on it might be worth making a new thread.
I'd rather have a Labour party that wasn't a pale imitation of the Tory party...
Without power the Labour Party can't actually help people. Placards and erudite Twitter posts are no substitute for being in government.
Jezbollah
Member
I suspect you may get that sooner than you think (without 170 odd MPs)...
Great, meanwhile the Tories tear the country apart. They've already taken us out of Europe.
totally agree but nothing about this situation is going to help labour get into government
peanutbutterlatte
Member
So politicians and parties need to abandon core principles if they want to maintain power. Yay.
It will be interesting to see how people react to Owen Smith, listening to him talk he's definitely got a lot more about him than anyone else that's been up against Corbyn and he's claiming to be as radical as him as well.
If it does play out that way it will be very interesting to see any arguments for sticking with Corbyn.
If it does play out that way it will be very interesting to see any arguments for sticking with Corbyn.
whyamihere
Banned
Well, no, there's a balance between core principles and governing that every party needs to meet in order to be effective governing bodies.
You have to be willing to moderate your message and compromise in policy if need be. That's is the reality of politics and why elections are won from the centre ground, that doesn't mean you have to stay there permanently. It was a Conservative PM who brought in gay marriage for god's sake.
The only radical thing about Smith is that he's the first Labour leadership contender who has supported, or perhaps still supports, a privatised NHS.
whyamihere
Banned
It's not even moving to the center. It's also about being able to deliver your core principles and articulate them in a way that makes them seem mainstream, something the left in general is pretty bad at.
He's further left than the majority of the plp but hasn't been a backbencher to vote with what he says.
Example abstaining with the rest of the plp on the social security bills, despite saying he's against it etc etc.
I imagine that position is about to be nuked from orbit, if it hasn't already been.
Graphics Horse
Member
To be fair we have an extra £350m a week to spend on the NHS now so privatization is no longer a priority
They don't need to abandon their core principles, they need to be intellectually flexible, something Corbyn in incapable of.
Also, many of the things that Corbyn stands for aren't even "Labour principles", despite what Corbyn supporters would tell you. For example, unilateral nuclear disarmament has been official policy for 8 years total in Labour party history (1961-62, 1982-89) but listening to some people you'd think renewing trident was a betrayal of the Labour party's roots.
Jezbollah
Member
He could support the televised genocide of kittens and still do better at the next Election than Jezza.
gutter_trash
Banned
ideological purity is a dead end
I'm looking at you from a Canadian point of view, mind you and I find that your Conservatives have a tighter grip on the electorate than your two other major parties.
to win, you need a champion but not only for your party but for your entire country
ideological purity sitting in eternity on the opposition bench advances nothing in society; that's' my opinion
Is that supposed to be an indictment of Corbyn, or of the truly dire state of British politics?
Jezbollah
Member
Both.
PJV3
Member
Labour aren't sniffing power without our seats (scotland). They'll never get the shires or areas Blair was able to get into.
Doesn't matter if they are credible or not the direction of England and Wales is rightwards and unless the snp fuck up like scottish labour did they'll never even get close to power.
I expect the tories to make gains into the north after the eu vote, killing the last bastion of labour safe seats.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The impression I got from Stephen Harper was that he was very right wing and rather un-Canadian. Yet he still won several elections. Canada isn't really as liberal as I thought. Though the balance has been restored after the Conservatives in Canada got beaten, badly. Corbyn won't rest until he's destroyed the centre-left in this country for many, many years. Fuck him and his selfishness.
PJV3
Member
We went through this during the NEC meeting, if it succeeds now we have gone beyond comedy.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Lmao @ Angela Eagle.
Drops out after all this noise and unrest.
What a joke.
Drops out after all this noise and unrest.
What a joke.
She's a nothing and hugely unlikeable.
Yeah, wait, I thought we'd already settled this?
If Corbyn isn't automatically on the ballot after all that...it'll be open civil war in the Labour Party Conference, won't it?
Damn, makes me want to pony up the £64 entry fee just to watch the fireworks in person.
Coriolanus
Banned
YouGov ran a poll on jezza x jarvis not one month ago. JC had a 17 point advantage.
Internal polling is most likely the reason jarvis is staying well the fuck away from this.
It was always going to court whichever way the NEC voted.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
If Corbyn wins again I honestly feel like tearing up my Labour membership and joining the Lib Dems.
but why
Dan Jarvis had a kid last year which is why he isn't interested, at least that's what I've heard.
freeofgreed
Member
IIRC what happened, was that Canada has 2 major left wing parties and only 1 major right wing party. So the liberal vote got split while all the conservatives were able to unify under a single party which was how Harper won. Ironically it was Canada being too liberal that let Harper win.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Corbyn has at least a 17 point advantage over basically everyone, though - see Corbyn's 22 point lead over Smith or 24 over Eagle. The Labour Party is now totally polarized into Corbynites and not-Corbynites.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Only place for me to go as a centre leftist.
Bye.
Oh, yeah, those centre leftists who propped up a Tory government for 5 years. You'll fit right in.
Hey, do you wanna buy this bridge?
Woah, woah, hold on a minute now, because I've lost track all that's happened over the last few days. Let me get this straight, If foster wins this case, would this mean that, legally, it would be possible for Corbyn to not stand for the leadership contest due to a lack of numbers, endorsement wise?
PJV3
Member
We need PR so we can have an amicable divorce, I'm more to the Corbyn side but there's no point getting 15% in an election and no seats, on the other hand the PLP pretending the left doesn't exist is pretty shitty.
Corbyn can't run anything that isn't about him, so sadly he has to go.
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