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UK Labour Leadership Crisis: Corbyn retained as leader by strong margin

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Maledict

Member
I agree with Freddie. I think the least bad plausible future is that Corbyn just leads into a general election to face not so glorious defeat, and that'll damage enough of his appeal.

The problem is that unlike Howard Corbyn has a very activist base that is openly planning to deselect sitting MPs, and the boundary changes will help that. corbyn might lose another 100 seats at the next election - but the remaining Labour MPs will have been flipped to hard left, Corbyn supporting candidates who won't take him down. Or if they do, they'll replace him with someone equally as bad.

I honestly cannot believe we're back in the 80s again, but here we are.
 

kmag

Member
Attempting to save the party from losing an election by deliberately loosing elections seems....odd? to me

They wouldn't have to deliberately lose to be fair, the voters would take care of that for them. But you can self select the bleeding rather than wait for a GE to gut the PLP.
 

Nicktendo86

Member
I agree with Freddie. I think the least bad plausible future is that Corbyn just leads into a general election to face not so glorious defeat, and that'll damage enough of his appeal.

The problem with that least worst course though it that it wouldn't lead to a just not so glorious defeat, it would lead to a near Lib Dem style wipeout.

People say that Corbyn in a good, principled man. I personally don't agree, he may be charming and have firm held views but I don't think he is a particularly good person. His utter inability to stop the blatant anti-Semitism and intimidation by his momentum thugs coupled with support of the fucking Venezuelan regime and being happy to stand next to portraits of Stalin tell a lot. I mean, if anyone from the right attending a rally where people held pictures of Hitler, what would be the reaction?

All of this is irrelevant, anyway. I may be wrong, the sun may well shine out of his arse, the real problem is that he is completely incapable of running the party machine. He is an incompetent leader, simple as that. The party can't even get press releases out to counter or scrutinise the government, how on earth is he going to lead a general election campaign? Where are the party's policies going to come from? The NEC come up with policy I believe, but would that policy (such as with trident) be supported by the leader? How is anyone meant to vote Labour knowing that they could potentially help with installing a PM who is clearly not qualified to run a bath, let alone the country?

So, the only way forward is a split. The new SDP or whatever they call themselves will have the numbers to be the new opposition but need to set up a new brand, new offices, new party machine, new voter database etc etc etc. Corbyn keeps the Labour name, brand and party machine. What happens then? Again, both side will be wiped out virtually, especially if the new SDP take a pro EU stance and try to sell that to Labour heartlands that voted 70% in favour of brexit.

The long and short of it is that Labour are fucked, and I think there is a strong chance they will be consigned to the dustbin of history. Which is a sad state of affairs and terrible for our democracy, but no party has a right to exist. A new centre left party will need to emerge, which is what I think will happen. A sort of coalition of the Lib Dems, Greens, ex Labour.

But who knows, so much can change in politics.
 

Xun

Member
While I agree a split is likely, I can't see that the Lib Dem membership would be terribly interested in joining a party made up of the centrist authoritarian PLP.

The Lib Dems are, y'know, socially liberal. Unlike the PLP. This new party would find itself broken in half just as much as the Labour party is.
Pretty much.

It would essentially be like the coalition government again under one roof and it would be a mess.

His utter inability to stop the blatant anti-Semitism
I wasn't entirely in the loop with it all, but was it really anti-Semitism? I only personally ever saw criticism of Israel.
 

Hazzuh

Member
Another example of what people mean when they talk about Corbyn being incompetent. Lilian Greenwood on how Corbyn undermined her when she was Shadow Transport Minister.

Some people have asked me for examples of why that was the case, and I wanted to explain tonight what’s happened over the last nine months as fully as I can.

Rail fares go up once a year on 2 January. It's the perfect opportunity to show that this Tory Government aren't on the side of working people. Commuters who've seen their season tickets go up by more than 26% since 2010. Some of whom are paying more for their rail fares than their mortgage. Four, five even six thousand pounds a year. People who live in Essex and on the Kent coast, in suburbs and small towns, in marginal seats. Many of them are not Labour voters, but they are the people we need to win over.

It is a huge date in the political calendar every year. We had the opportunity not just to criticise the Government, but to show we had a real Labour alternative. Our flagship policy. One that unites our party.

My staff spent weeks preparing briefing materials for MPs and constituency parties across the country. Trawling through mountains of rail fare information to provide examples of the season tickets that had risen the most and that cost the most. Examples for every MP and CLP. Like Nottingham to Derby – where the cost of an annual season ticket has risen by almost 30% since 2010.

And over the Christmas period we were listening in to Network Rail conference calls, monitoring the engineering works. Several calls every day including Christmas Day and Boxing Day, even New Years Eve.

On 4 January – a cold dark Monday morning – I was at Kings Cross at 7am doing Radio 5 and BBC TV. Standing with Jeremy and the Rail Union General Secretaries for the media photocall. It was a crucial day in the Party’s media grid. And all across the country local party activists were outside railway stations in the cold and the dark, leafleting commuters with the materials we’d prepared. Armed with the briefings and statistics.

Incredibly, Jeremy launched a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle on the same day. This was the reshuffle that had been talked about since the Syria vote a month earlier. A vote where I supported Jeremy’s position. The reshuffle that meant all our staff spent Christmas not knowing whether they'd have a job by the New Year. By mid-afternoon the press were camped outside the Leader's office. They were there for the next 3 days.

It knocked all the coverage of the rail fare rise and our public ownership policy off every news channel and every front page. I respect completely Jeremy’s right to reshuffle his top team. But why then? It was unnecessary and it was incompetent.

It let me down, it let my staff down but most of all it let down the Labour campaigners and trade union members, people like you, who had given up their time to go out campaigning for us that morning.

Now I’d ask you to imagine how you would you feel if you agreed something with your boss but he then did something completely different. Something that undermined you. Something they hadn't even had the courtesy to tell you about.

HS2 has always been controversial, including in our Party, but it is something that I believe is vital for the future of our country.

It has the support of all the rail unions. It has the support of Labour leaders in the great cities like Birmingham and Manchester and Leeds and Nottingham. It is important for jobs and skills in Derby and Doncaster and across the country and it is our official policy to support it, as agreed by the Shadow Cabinet and our National Policy Forum.

I’ve been one of HS2’s strongest supporters so I when I took up the job in Jeremy’s Shadow Cabinet I wanted to be absolutely sure we were on the same page.

I met his Director of Policy to talk it through. We talked about the most difficult parts of the project, the impact at Euston in London. I'd been working with Councillor Sarah Hayward and her colleagues at Camden for more than 2 years to try and help them get what they wanted for their local residents.

It had been very difficult. I'd been to visit several times, meeting residents and businesses and dealing with some hostile media. But we secured real concessions – changes that will make a difference to local residents. It didn’t matter that it was in a nominally safe seat. It was the right thing to do.

Despite our agreed policy, despite Jeremy's Director of Policy and I agreeing our position, without saying anything to me, Jeremy gave a press interview in which he suggested he could drop Labour’s support for HS2 altogether. He told a journalist on a local Camden newspaper that perhaps the HS2 line shouldn’t go to Euston at all but stop at Old Oak Common in West London – but he never discussed any of this with the Shadow Cabinet, or me, beforehand. I felt totally undermined on a really difficult issue.

And when 2 frontbenchers voted against the 3 line whip at 3rd Reading in March he did nothing. Telling one of them “well I've done it enough times myself”.

Breaking the principles of collective responsibility and discipline without which effective Parliamentary opposition is not possible. When I raised my concerns it was simply shrugged off. It undermined me in front of colleagues and made me look weak.It made me feel like I was wasting my time. That my opinion didn't matter. And it made me miserable.

I'd discuss it with my political adviser, a Labour Party member of staff and activist from Nottingham who has also lost his job in all this, and we'd agree to go on because the policy mattered. Because we wanted to keep holding the Government to account. Because we love the Labour Party.

This didn't happen once or twice.

It happened time and time again.

The EU 4th Rail Package is a bit complex to explain here and now, but it had the potential to make it difficult to implement our new rail policy.

I'd been working with MEPs to ensure it was amended or blocked for the last 3 years. We felt we could live with the final draft issued in April but it was a very sensitive issue. ASLEF and the RMT were on the Leave side in the referendum because of their concerns.

So when Jeremy talked about it in a speech, in very Euro-sceptic terms, without giving me any warning let alone discussing it with me, I was concerned and asked to meet him.

Our frontbenchers were being challenged on the issue in the media, but there was no common position. I asked and asked. After my staff chasing virtually every day for a month, we got a meeting.

We put together a briefing paper in advance. We drafted some lines to take in any press interviews for us to give to all Labour MPs. We discussed the lines with his Policy staff and made some changes in response to comments.

We agreed a final version. We sat down together and discussed what was in the 4th Rail Package, how we were ensuring it didn't stop our policy, how we'd been working with our MEPs and the Socialist Group and we agreed the lines to take.

The lines were circulated to all frontbenchers, to all MPs, to ensure they knew what our policy was and how to deal with difficult questions.

But Jeremy went on SkyNews and took a completely different, eurosceptic line. Not what we'd agreed. With the potential to make us look divided. It undermined me, my staff and his staff. I wondered why I was bothering to put in the hard work.

You’ve all heard stories about pro-European speeches being downgraded, events, being cancelled, and Jeremy and his staff privately subscribing to Eurosceptic views.

And I felt that I was watching my leader deliberately sabotage the campaign on an issue on which he and I had a personal agreement.

How would you feel if your boss undermined your work and when you complained he listened and then did nothing different?

How would you feel if you were part of a team and you knew that not only was your boss undermining you but that this was happening to other colleagues?

You can agree or disagree about whether Jeremy was half hearted about the Labour In campaign.

You can agree or disagree about whether it's Ok to take 5 days holiday 3 weeks before the most important vote in my lifetime.

But I sat at the Regional Count with Glenis Willmott the Leader of the European Parliamentary Labour Party, my friend, a fellow trade unionist from the East Midlands doing media duty for our Party.

And as we left at 5am, defeated and in despair, we finally got sent lines to take from the Leader's office. Acknowledging Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart for their work in the Leave campaign. Their work in direct opposition to Labour Party policy.

And shortly after we heard Jeremy calling for the immediate triggering of Article 50. Without any discussion with the Shadow Cabinet or the Leader of the European Parliamentary Labour Party.

Think about that. The country had just voted to leave the EU after more than 40 years and Jeremy made a major announcement on the Party’s position without waiting to discuss it with the Shadow Cabinet, without even consulting the leader of our MEPs in Europe.

How can that be right?
 

Par Score

Member
I wasn't entirely in the loop with it all, but was it really anti-Semitism? I only personally ever saw criticism of Israel.

No, people just like to try and tar the Left with the anti-semetism label if they dare do anything other than sing the praises of Israel (ideally while condemning the Palestinians for even daring to exist).

Any vaguely nuanced position on Israel-Palestine relations is derided as gross anti-semetism, and if you go as far as actually supporting the Palestinians (or criticising Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians) then you might as well be Hitler, Goebels and Mussolini rolled into one.
 

Maledict

Member
He is a terrible leader and actually quite an unpleasant person. Numerous, numerous stories all saying the same thing have been coming out over the past month. Thangsim Debonaaires experience was basically the same:

Here is my experience.

Mr Corbyn appointed me and press released this without my knowledge or consent whilst I was in the middle of cancer treatment. He then sacked me the next day when he realized he had given away part of someone else's role. But didn't bother to tell me that either. By then my office had been besieged by press and the story was out that I was Shadow Minister. I decided to make the best of it and to serve. I worked on his Arts policy whilst I was still having treatment but in Bristol..

When I went back to Westminster, I discovered that he had sacked me but hadn't told me and did not have any ideas for how I was supposed to explain it to Bristol West members or constituents. I was then faced with the choice of telling the truth - that he had made a series of errors, and inevitably thereby face a pile of criticism from his supporters - or say I had changed my mind about accepting the role - and thereby face a pile of criticism from.his supporters. And I knew the pile would arrive because I had seen how it went for others who had resigned. And because Corbyn supporters had already piled into me for disloyalty when I had had to miss votes for cancer treatment.

I then, contrary to the story he keeps giving on TV, found it near on impossible to get to talk to him about this problem

Eventually I did get to meet him and he had nothing to say. No idea what to do. It took my boss Maria Eagle to explain to him that as he was leader he could re appoint me if that was what he wanted.

I then worked hard for him on his Arts policy, loyally didn't go to the press about the above, got stuck in and worked. And yes, I enjoyed the role, it is one of my dream jobs in parliament and I believe I did Corbyn and the Labour Party a great service, as millions of people work in the arts and culture sectors and they valued being involved in policy-making. So it was never my intention to resign.

However, I kept hearing from other colleagues on the front bench just how difficult or impossible it was to get a decision out of him on important policy issues - the very thing Corbyn is supposed to be good on. I also noticed that the policy making process through the National Policy Forum was being slowed down by lack of decisions from Corbyn's office.

But then he was missing in action during the EU referendum, including going on a week's holiday three weeks before the day. I found that unforgivable. I had re-started campaigning in this campaign, phone-canvassing to conserve my energy, and kept hearing Labour voters saying 'but your leader wants out, doesn't he?' His team didn't send anyone to the EU Campaign meetings in Westminster and his lack of enthusiasm showed.

On the day after the referendum he asked for an early Brexit. My constituents want exactly the opposite and were telling me so in their hundreds, and voted 85% to remain.

That was the tipping point for me - it is not allowed to remain on the front bench whilst taking an opposing view to the leader in something so important.

I therefore had to resign.

The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.

Since then he has stated publicly that he isn't prioritizing winning elections. How can I support a Labour leader who doesn't want to form a Labour government above everything? When working people, the old, the young, the poor, the country, need a Labour government above everything?

I want a Labour government more than anything, because that is how we change the world and how we help millions of people, just as the 1997-2010 Labour government helped millions of people, my own family included.

I profoundly wished I never had to say all this publicly, but people keep asking, and I believe they have a right to know the truth about what Corbyn's leadership is like.

We cannot win general elections with a leader who is unable and unwilling to learn how to communicate with, listen to and persuade people with whom he doesn't already agree - we need to convince swing voters who voted Tory last year in Southern seats to vote Labour next time and we need Labour voters in Wales and the North to continue to vote Labour - without this we can't win a general election.

all that is what's at stake. Not having a Labour government again is unbearable. I will do anything I can to help to ensure this. It's the constitutional duty of all Labour MPs, especially the leader, to try to secure a better life for working class people through parliamentary means. And that's what I will continue to do.

I hope that's clear.

He cannot run the party. He is not a "principled character with good intentions". He's a political bully who refuses to even work with the people who support him. The fact that the PLP is at loggerheads with the membership is the saddest thing of all - the party is broken, and to write off every MPs experience and judgement because they are "tories" is disgusting.
 

Maledict

Member
No, people just like to try and tar the Left with the anti-semetism label if they dare do anything other than sing the praises of Israel (ideally while condemning the Palestinians for even daring to exist).

Any vaguely nuanced position on Israel-Palestine relations is derided as gross anti-semetism, and if you go as far as actually supporting the Palestinians (or criticising Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians) then you might as well be Hitler, Goebels and Mussolini rolled into one.

Meh, it was more complicated than that. There is certainly *something* about Israel that angers parts of the far left in a way nothing else does. To this day I don't understand why out of every injustice and every broken regime on the planet, the far left is so utterly obsessed with Israel. It unsettles me to be frank to find out my local branch of Unison is campaigning on the issue, when there are so many other issues to be addressed.

And the criticisms weren't in any way like you are outlining - that's a complete strawman. There absoluteley *has* been some bouts of anti-semitism in the party. It's not widely spread or wholesale, and the party itself isn't anti-semitic - but it travels closely to people who are, and needs to take a stronger stance against them. It's very possible to take a balanced and nuanced view on Israel without Ken bloody Livingstones obsession with Hitler.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Just to put it all in 1 post.

Thangam Debbonaire, ex-Shadow Culture Minister
https://www.facebook.com/thangam.debbonaire/posts/10157204442320083

Mr Corbyn appointed me and press released this without my knowledge or consent whilst I was in the middle of cancer treatment. He then sacked me the next day when he realized he had given away part of someone else's role. But didn't bother to tell me that either. By then my office had been besieged by press and the story was out that I was Shadow Minister. I decided to make the best of it and to serve. I worked on his Arts policy whilst I was still having treatment but in Bristol..

When I went back to Westminster, I discovered that he had sacked me but hadn't told me and did not have any ideas for how I was supposed to explain it to Bristol West members or constituents.

Lilian Greenwood, ex-Shadow Transport Minister
http://www.liliangreenwood.co.uk/lilian_s_speech_to_nottingham_south_labour_party_members

Incredibly, Jeremy launched a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle on the same day. This was the reshuffle that had been talked about since the Syria vote a month earlier. A vote where I supported Jeremy’s position. The reshuffle that meant all our staff spent Christmas not knowing whether they'd have a job by the New Year. By mid-afternoon the press were camped outside the Leader's office. They were there for the next 3 days.

It knocked all the coverage of the rail fare rise and our public ownership policy off every news channel and every front page. I respect completely Jeremy’s right to reshuffle his top team. But why then? It was unnecessary and it was incompetent.

Despite our agreed policy, despite Jeremy's Director of Policy and I agreeing our position, without saying anything to me, Jeremy gave a press interview in which he suggested he could drop Labour’s support for HS2 altogether. He told a journalist on a local Camden newspaper that perhaps the HS2 line shouldn’t go to Euston at all but stop at Old Oak Common in West London – but he never discussed any of this with the Shadow Cabinet, or me, beforehand. I felt totally undermined on a really difficult issue.

Richard Murphy, creator of Corbynomics
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/17/the-rise-and-fall-of-corbyns-economics/

I had the opportunity to see what was happening inside the PLP. The leadership wasn’t confusing as much as just silent. There was no policy direction, no messaging, no direction, no co-ordination, no nothing. Shadow ministers appeared to have been left with no direction as to what to do. It was shambolic. The leadership usually couldn’t even get a press release out on time to meet print media deadlines and then complained they got no coverage.

Stewart Owadally, Welsh Remain Campaign Director
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36651135

The letter, written by both Mr Owadally, who is a Labour member, and Wales Stronger In Europe's head of press Alex Kalinik, said: "We were consistently given short shrift when we requested visits from Labour figures via the Labour Party in London.

"Our political champions from the Labour Party were often unable to get hold of research or rebuttal materials from Labour HQ to help make their case.

"In the end we often coordinated press for Labour figures because the Labour Party was not willing to do so - but these were less powerful because they were not from the official party infrastructure.

"Most strikingly felt of all was the complete disinterest from Jeremy Corbyn.

"As leader of our party, he should have thrown the full weight of his resources - as leader, as the leader's office, and as the steward of the party itself - into the Labour campaign for a Remain vote, but this did not happen.

I think there was another EU referendum one about how people were left hanging by the leadership and had to do everything themselves.
 
Resign. Force a series of byelections which Labour would lose. That should sharpen the minds of the membership somewhat although I'm sure they'd try to rationalise it. No one could blame any Labour MP for wanting out.

I don't think MPs resigning is realistic, but a series of byelection defeats in the next 2-3 years the might force Corbyn to resign before the next general election. Especially since any new candidates are likely to be highly pro-Corbyn, so any defeat can't be blamed on "Blairites".
I think I'll consider that my optimistic outlook.

Those reports about Corbyn as a leader are chilling. It's okay to avoid being part of the elite bubble in the Westminster media-circus. It's not okay to be utterly disorganised and have "wing it" as your media strategy.
Sometime I think Corbyn is the left's BoJo. He makes the right noises, but seems deathly afraid of doing the actual work that being a leader requires.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
No, people just like to try and tar the Left with the anti-semetism label if they dare do anything other than sing the praises of Israel (ideally while condemning the Palestinians for even daring to exist).

Any vaguely nuanced position on Israel-Palestine relations is derided as gross anti-semetism, and if you go as far as actually supporting the Palestinians (or criticising Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians) then you might as well be Hitler, Goebels and Mussolini rolled into one.

Yep, you certainly represent the far-left's "nuanced" view of the Israeli-Palestinian situation alright.
 

kmag

Member
corbyn just has to bring up owen smith wanted to privatize the nhs to crush him, well he will anyway.

Does it really matter? The Labour party is completely finished. If the polling is right then there's now a massive split between long time members and the johnny come lately's and frankly neither side of that split seems to be able to present a vision that the wider public find compelling.
 

Real Hero

Member
Does it really matter? The Labour party is completely finished. If the polling is right then there's now a massive split between long time members and the johnny come lately's and frankly neither side of that split seems to be able to present a vision that the wider public find compelling.

true, I blame the PLP mostly because losing the next election with corbyn would have been preferable to self destruction.
 

Mindwipe

Member
To be honest Eagle's supporters were like a who's who of people I think are dislikable in the PLP.

I await my MP's rapid U-turn after she's spent all morning spamming my Twitter timeline about how Eagle was definitely the best candidate to how she was only kidding and Smith is brilliant honest.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
EagleCrying.bmp
 

Real Hero

Member
I don't blame them as much. Unseating an unpopular and completely incompetent leader is a must. Failing to do so however...

well yes, if they came forward with someone worthwhile and they were sure would be popular then it wouldn't an issue, but they have fucked up massively
 

Hazzuh

Member
Something is wrong when people are enthusiastically voting for Owen Smith as leader of the Labour party but these are the times we live in...
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Something is wrong when people are enthusiastically voting for Owen Smith as leader of the Labour party but these are the times we live in...

people who are getting behind Owen Smith as the saviour need to take a step back and ask themselves why they're even in the Labour party. Tory lite thirst is real.
 

Maledict

Member
true, I blame the PLP mostly because losing the next election with corbyn would have been preferable to self destruction.

Corbyn was threatening them with eradication. Not only would over a half of them lose their jobs, but the rest are being targeted for deselection by momentum under the boundary change.s They've had to act because they simply won't be here in 4 years time if they don't.
 
None of the tops dogs of the party want any of this, because they know winnjng this leadership election is slitting yiur own throat. So now we have this nutjob homophobe going up against Jezza. Shambles.
 

pigeon

Banned
Labour party would be mad to split to then form a pro-EU party. Again, outside London, 87.1% of Labour seats voted remain. Inside London, Labour are safe as houses regardless. There's no win that decision. Given that the EU vote was really just a particular manifestation of anti-globalization sentiments, a pro-globalization split would also just kill off the careers of whoever did that. I actually think a Corbyn-led Labour Party would do better than the, I don't know, "Social Democrats mk.II" in a general election - who is the base of this new party? Because I can't spot them.

That said, they're just mad enough to do something that politically stupid, so who knows?

So maybe I don't understand your response here. The base of the new party is the 48% of British people who don't want to leave the EU -- because Corbyn has already asked for immediately triggering article 50! The fact that a bunch of Labour seats want to remain makes that party stronger, not weaker, because that makes them that much more likely to switch to a party that's strongly pro-Remain and emphasizes that as the preeminent political question it has clearly become in the UK. I feel like your whole argument just showcases why such a party would be strong.
 

PJV3

Member
people who are getting behind Owen Smith as the saviour need to take a step back and ask themselves why they're even in the Labour party. Tory lite thirst is real.

He's not the saviour, but Corbyn is now a dead man walking, if it isn't sorted we are looking at another 10 years of full fat Tory rule.
 

kmag

Member
people who are getting behind Owen Smith as the saviour need to take a step back and ask themselves why they're even in the Labour party. Tory lite thirst is real.

People getting behind Corbyn need to ask themselves to they want to be a shitty 'social' (media mostly I presume) protest 'movement' or a proper functional political party.
 

Uzzy

Member
So when Smith loses what will the PLP do then? Attack Corbyn some more during PMQ's and in the press? Or actually show some guts and split?
 

Pandy

Member
Corbyn was threatening them with eradication. Not only would over a half of them lose their jobs, but the rest are being targeted for deselection by momentum under the boundary change.s They've had to act because they simply won't be here in 4 years time if they don't.

They've had to act... by bravely leaping onto the self-destruct button themselves?
 
When she was asked "Would she drop out if someone else seemed more likely to win" she sidestepped the question and said Labour was ready for it's first female leader. Ain't happening now.

As an aside, this new guy? He's a dickhead?
 

Hazzuh

Member
None of the tops dogs of the party want any of this, because they know winnjng this leadership election is slitting yiur own throat. So now we have this nutjob homophobe going up against Jezza. Shambles.

The "normal" thing was tactless but it's bizarre to so quickly escalate that in to him being a "nutjob homophobe", any other evidence of this nutjob homophobia?
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
People getting behind Corbyn need to ask themselves to they want to be a shitty 'social' (media mostly I presume) protest 'movement' or a proper functional political party.

100% agree. It feels like the Labour party has been hijacked but the PLP has done just as much damage with their inability to challenge Corbyn. Their handling of this failed coup has been an embarrassment and inspires no confidence. If Corbyn was to leave right now nobody comes out of it looking good. It doesn't go back to business as usual.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
The thing is that 'soft' privatisation of the NHS, at least in the form of a two-tier system, is now moving closer and closer towards being an acceptable, even sensible, 'centrist' position in parliament. Cameron lay the seeds by talking about (though not directly proposing) charges to visit your GP. I have no doubt that by 2025 that will be a reality. Owen Smith wont be the last Labour politician to openly support it.
 

kmag

Member
100% agree. It feels like the Labour party has been hijacked but the PLP has down just as much damage with their inability to challenge Corbyn. Their handling of this failed coup has been an embarrassment and inspires no confidence. If Corbyn was to leave right now nobody comes out of it looking good.

What can they do? Any other political leader in UK history would have fucked off realising you can't lead a political party in a parliamentary democracy without the support of parliamentary party. Corbyn didn't, Miliband's lax rules means Jeremy's rent a mob will keep him in power in a move which will tear the party apart. Short of going proper Soviet there's nowt more they could have done, they could have looked better doing what they've done and it's been cacked handed because of it.
 
What can they do? Any other political leader in UK history would have fucked off realising you can't lead a political party in a parliamentary democracy without the support of parliamentary party. Corbyn didn't, Miliband's lax rules means Jeremy's rent a mob will keep him in power in a move which will tear the party apart. Short of going proper Soviet there's nowt more they could have done, they could have looked better doing what they've done and it's been cacked handed because of it.

They could have put forward a proper candidate instead of Smith and Eagle?
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
What can they do? Any other political leader in UK history would have fucked off realising you can't lead a political party in a parliamentary democracy without the support of parliamentary party. Corbyn didn't, Miliband's lax rules means Jeremy's rent a mob will keep him in power in a move which will tear the party apart. Short of going proper Soviet there's nowt more they could have done, they could have looked better doing what they've done and it's been cacked handed because of it.

Corbyn didn't win because of the £3 vote though. He's probably going to win with these new rules too so that blows that theory out.

I don't know what the answer is. It's not Owen Smith that's for sure.
 

mr-paul

Member
People getting behind Corbyn need to ask themselves to they want to be a shitty 'social' (media mostly I presume) protest 'movement' or a proper functional political party.

It's all well and good saying it will be more of a functional political party if Corbyn is removed. The problem is the membership is more behind the actual politics of Corbyn compared to those of Owen Smith.

And I really don't see Smith being a great leader, either.
 

kmag

Member
Corbyn didn't win because of the £3 vote though. He's probably going to win with these new rules too so that blows that theory out.

I don't know what the answer is. It's not Owen Smith that's for sure.

That's not what the current polling indicates. It's indicating long term members have had enough, with the rent a mob staying true

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