Replaying Sonic the Hedgehog reveals it was kind of bad

This isn't being reflected in my post because it's hard for to describe being able to get past something on my first time because as a kid, I already memorized it, but still manage to say,"well, that's dumb." Like in Marble Zone. There's a section where you ride the block to the other side, go in the secret wall and get the 1 up. There is no spring conveniently placed right next to the 1 up box to continue. Nope. Gotta go on the block and ride it to the other end, and ride it AGAIN to the other opposite end to make the jump. It's poorly designed, slow, plodding. and just because I was able to stomach it as a kid doesn't make it good as an adult. That design decision was patent trash.

Wait. Are you talking about Marble Zone 2's secret 1up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E9Mv0UMgGss#t=192

Maybe you are just bad at the game?

I think the problem is that you memorized a way to solve that part, and never questioned that there were better ways, and now are blaming the game as "bad" and "full of trial and error".
 
Why is this topic brought up every time there's Sonic-related news? Some people like it, some don't, the same points are brought up over and over again.

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thread is patent trash

3D Blast is tedious as heck, it's like a whole game of marble zones!

Time for my obligatory "Sonic 1 Master System is best Sonic 1 post".

i always forget if that's the same as the GG one? i did so love that one, need to play more of the other SMS ones though

I'm all in favor of a "Sonic sucks!" OT.

maybe to keep all the garbage is one place, like the 9-11 conspiracy thread in OT
 
I've been replaying it for 20 years OP. I don't see how you could come to that conclusion OP. Its a sidescroller about platforming and speed, i'm not sure what else you want.

THis historical revisionism in regards to established sentiments is really annoying. "Sonic was never good!" Next people will be saying Mario never set the standard for platforming, or Super Mario Bros wasn't good to begin with
 
Well I'm upto Labyrinth Zone, let's see if my eyes open from this point forward and it all falls apart here.

It's less about "opinions change", it's more than no one really argues that Sonic 1 is a amazing game anyway (most people place it at the bottom of the totem pole of the classic gen) and the idea that it betrayed some sort of memory you had of it and would lead you to fear replaying Sonic 2 (the GOAT) incase it does the same thing just seems silly.

Sonic 1 was never a particularly amazing game, and most of the fandom would likely agree with that. Sonic 2, CD and S3&K were all winners for different reasons, and stand the test of time.

When people speak highly of Sonic, it's almost always about 2, 3&K and CD. If anything you just sort of came around to the general public consensus.

Hell I would place Sonic 3D Blast (both Saturn AND Genesis versions) above Sonic 1.

Sonic 1 is an amazing game and one of my favourite platformers, I think the fandom has shown it loves the game but not as much as it's sequels.
 
Sonic 1 has awful pacing problems. You can blast through Green Hill Zone in about 2 minutes ish. And it's great! Fun, high speed platforming, nice sense of flow, etc. Then that all comes to a grinding halt with Marble Zone. It's slow paced and requires precision platforming, which given the way Sonic handles (a lot of momentum, hard to influence direction once a jump has been made) can be very difficult. It is overall the antithesis of Green Hill. Spring Yard Zone is a step in the right direction, but suffers from its own problems. You can go fast, but as a result you may get pinball'd all over the place, which can get frustrating/hold you up, or be blindsided by awkwardly placed enemies. Labyrinth Zone is everything awful about Marble Zone times 10, thanks to slow underwater movement. It isn't until Starlight Zone where the game regains its sense of speed, and even then the level design can be irritating with tons of bottomless pits and occasionally confusing level layout. The game feels like one set of really great levels designed around the game's physics and controls, and then a ton of basic platforming stuff. Sonic 1 has a lot of problems that keep it from being a great experience.

Sonic 2 and 3&K, on the other hand, are great games that fix a lot of 1's problems. Sonic 2 manages to nail down pacing, with every game in the zone having a solid sense of speed. Sonic 3&K make the levels feel more expansive without breaking up the flow. It has these massive levels with tons of different paths that weave in-and-out of each other, allowing you to switch from path to path easily without bringing the game to a crawl. 2 and 3&K feel like they are design around you going fast, and have levels that are designed in such a way that speed is a reward for fast reflexes and using the environment around you to your advantage.

So yeah, Sonic 1 doesn't really hold up the best. But I don't think you have much to fear with how well 2 and 3&K hold up.

Agreed in full.

Looking forward to 2 now.
 
Sonic 3D was a curio at best. It doesn't rank against any other Mega Drive Sonic game at all. The only thing it has going for it is the special stage in the Saturn version.
 
Do people suddenly lose their fine motor skills when playing Sonic, or something?

I don't understand how people in these threads always seem to be horrifically bad at the games.
 
I'd take 3D Blast over CD any day tbh.

man, i wish i could get into 3D blast like some of ya'll...it's just not even the same kinda game, and feels like i'm doing the same stuff..looking for enemies, losing my rings, finding the goal etc in some of the same looking maps. i do love the saturn's OST for it though
 
i always forget if that's the same as the GG one? i did so love that one, need to play more of the other SMS ones though

It is, just with better visibility.

As for the other MS/GG ones, Triple Trouble and Chaos are decent enough, Sonic Blast (not to be confused with 3D Blast) is truly dreadful.
 
Well I'm upto Labyrinth Zone, let's see if my eyes open from this point forward and it all falls apart here.



Sonic 1 is an amazing game and one of my favourite platformers, I think the fandom has shown it loves the game but not as much as it's sequels.

Yeah. I think the people who identify themselves as Sonic fans tend to prefer the later games more. Personally, I identify more as a "platformer fan", so I tend to slide more towards Sonic 1 and Sonic CD.
 
Nah for real though the WORST zone in any Sonic game has to be Marble Garden Zone from Sonic 3, feels like it's a zone just designed to screw you over, I nicknamed it Dick Move Zone, and the boss, ugh, one of the worst.
 
The < 20 demographic on GAF is painful. Nothing can ever be different to their tastes, it's just bad. Lol ok. And if you're an adult, SMH for not realising that and still posting.
 
Wait. Are you talking about Marble Zone 2's secret 1up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E9Mv0UMgGss#t=192

Maybe you are just bad at the game?

I think the problem is that you memorized a way to solve that part, and never questioned that there were better ways, and now are blaming the game as "bad" and "full of trial and error".

Because I used the block instead of jumping on the platforms that means I'm bad at the game?

Doesn't "bad at the game" usually mean "you die a lot"?

This is what I mentioned earlier. What you posted doesn't require much in actual skill. The only difference is that the person decided to platform instead of using the block. Usually, when playing more difficult games, being bad at the game usually means you need to learn to get better. This is just a gap in game knowledge. It's not a true test in skill.

But I'm glad you're good at knowing you can just use the platforms instead of using blocks. True test of skill, ElFly.
 
Nah for real though the WORST zone in any Sonic game has to be Marble Garden Zone from Sonic 3, feels like it's a zone just designed to screw you over, I nicknamed it Dick Move Zone, and the boss, ugh, one of the worst.

Totally agree. Great rest of the game, but Marble Garden Zone is the worst out of any of the Genesis games imo. I dread playing through it every time.
 
Do people suddenly lose their fine motor skills when playing Sonic, or something?

I don't understand how people in these threads always seem to be horrifically bad at the games.

Sounds like perception problems. Comes in 3 varieties.

1. "Oh a cute animal platformer! This will be a fun relaxing game!" - In other words some people who can play hard games but due to a form of mental dissonance were not expecting to put in the correct levels of mental effort or were not prepared for any form of difficulty. Kind of the same problems Ecco the dolphin faced with perception that some people assumed it was a an aquatic sealife simulator where you play with fish and shit.

2. "Wah it's too fast!/Not fast enough! - People who just can't get the "Sonic should be fast!!!11" idea out of their heads. They just continually play the game wrong because the assume the goal is to just move as fast as you can while holding right. These people always have problems with the game but can't accept the issue is with the player and not the game. If they adapt to what the game is instead of trying to play it like a different game they would be a lot happier.

They always seem to assume if they can't go really fast all the time then it's bad game design because an enemy popped up or there were slower platforming sections. Oddly enough the same people would complain the games had no variety if all you did was hold right. Mind boggling how some people can be so bad at it though.

3. "Sonic sucks now! And it's cool to hate on Sonic! So Sonic must have always sucked!!" - Normally younger gamers without a clue jumping on bandwagons they don't understand. Like when 12 year old GameFAQ posters say that Cloud from FFVII is the best character ever even though they've never played the game and certainly no where near it's release. It's a sort of appeal to perceived seniority in a hope of being accepted into the "cool" faction and being recognized as "one of us!"
 
Sonic wasn't always bad but it was never really top tier either. As a whole? Mostly bad.

See ya can't just count the 4 main Genesis ones an ignore all others. The Mastersystem/GameGear Sonics were largely really poor. CD was bad. Chaotix was unfinished. Then theres the non-main Genesis ones. Mean Bean Machine? Asshole AI. Spinball? Crap. 3D Blast? Had its heart in the right place but still failed. Both cartoons at the time were really bad, as was that ova/movie which made lil to no sense!

As for the main ones?

Sonic - great art/graphics/music, some fun stages, loads of jerk enemy/trap placements
Sonic 2 - pretty much the same as the first except its longer which sucks since many stages don't hold up or feel like padding
Sonic 3 - the best! special stages are finally fun, the stage transitions added alot to the game, is just the right length, has less of the enemy/trap downsides though some remain
S&K - I never even cared for when it was new. levels felt really long an not as fun. some reallllly dragged. plus the weird difficulty curve when ya played 3 & this locked-on!
 
What? I've made my positions clear. You just have disagreed or ignored them. Sonic 1 is a bad game and I've articulated why I think that is the case.

I made as much effort in my argument as you have, especially with you admitting that you can't explain it previously and you're relying on your feelings. I've seen these types of threads too many times and each time the OP is pressed for more of an explanation, they squirm and squirm like you're doing until they double down or exit stage left. It's absolutely tiring, and it's a technique that's older than Sonic 1 is.
 
Because I used the block instead of jumping on the platforms that means I'm bad at the game?

Doesn't "bad at the game" usually mean "you die a lot"?

This is what I mentioned earlier. What you posted doesn't require much in actual skill. The only difference is that the person decided to platform instead of using the block. Usually, when playing more difficult games, being bad at the game usually means you need to learn to get better. This is just a gap in game knowledge. It's not a true test in skill.

But I'm glad you're good at knowing you can just use the platforms instead of using blocks. True test of skill, ElFly.

This is getting silly. You had to have passed the platforms on the way to the 1up. You knew they were there. You can also see where you need to go above on the way to the 1up, too. You just never thought to use the platforms to get up there, even though you saw the route. That's on the player, not the game, especially if you were already knowledgeable enough about the game to even know the 1up is there in the first place. (If you don't know the 1up is there, this whole thing is a nonissue, since you can just take the upper route on the first block.)
 
I wonder if I'm the only one that likes every single zone of every single Genesis Sonic game. I think they're all pretty cool beans, man.

you're not, its you me & history itself man

I made as much effort in my argument as you have, especially with you admitting that you can't explain it previously and you're relying on your feelings. I've seen these types of threads too many times and each time the OP is pressed for more of an explanation, they squirm and squirm like you're doing until they double down or exit stage left. It's absolutely tiring, and it's a technique that's older than Sonic 1 is.

goddamn
glad someone else has been seeing this pattern too, though

This is getting silly. You had to have passed the platforms on the way to the 1up. You knew they were there. You can also see where you need to go above on the way to the 1up, too. You just never thought to use the platforms to get up there, even though you saw the route. That's on the player, not the game, especially if you were already knowledgeable enough about the game to even know the 1up is there in the first place. (If you don't know the 1up is there, this whole thing is a nonissue, since you can just take the upper route on the first block.)

exactly this
 
I love these threads.

And Egoraptor.
I think it was one of his recent episodes on the Black Knight where he talks about why Sonic is a sucky design, game wise. He's right in as much as he was designed merely as a corporate competition to Mario and Sega's crap mismanagement, but it didn't quite make sense to me.
 
you're not, its you me & history itself man

There's plenty more room on board this 16-bit love train.

I think of Sonic as like...well, Mario. Some stages might be more fun than others, but the game is such a joy to play and control and move around in that even the 'lesser' stages are still enjoyable.
 
And Egoraptor.
I think it was one of his recent episodes on the Black Knight where he talks about why Sonic is a sucky design, game wise. He's right in as much as he was designed merely as a corporate competition to Mario and Sega's crap mismanagement, but it didn't quite make sense to me.

If that's his only reason for disliking sonic, then his argument falls apart. That same reason can be used to make a good game. The idea of Sonic came about when the designer was playing Mario by trying to complete the stage as quickly as possible.
 
I wonder if I'm the only one that likes every single zone of every single Genesis Sonic game. I think they're all pretty cool beans, man.
I almost agree. I wish Sonic 1 didn't have 4 acts of Labyrinth as that really outstayed it's welcome. I always wished there was a proper Scrap Brain Act 3.

Oh and Sky Chase was cute first time round but I find it pretty dull on replays.
 
Sonic 1's big problem is that despite having rock-solid and interesting gameplay mechanics the level design often doesn't take advantage of and sometimes even outright ignores it. Levels like Marble Zone and Labyrinth Zone seem to have been designed for a straightforward platformer without the weird Sonic momentum.

Sonic 2 and 3&K actually have levels designed around the gameplay and they're great games. Especially 3&K.
 
I've never really liked Sonic 1. Just never clicked with me at all.

On the other hand, 2 and 3&K are just as fun as they were two decades ago.
 
I'm not very fond of the first game and rarely make it past Marble Zone.

I'd rank the series like so.

S&K>>S2>>SCD/S3>>S1.

Sonic 1 has the most deadly speed traps. Sonic 2 has some towards the end, and it gets a bit long in the tooth.
 
There's plenty more room on board this 16-bit love train.

I think of Sonic as like...well, Mario. Some stages might be more fun than others, but the game is such a joy to play and control and move around in that even the 'lesser' stages are still enjoyable.

Agreed, kinda. I harp on a few of the 'lesser' levels sometimes (Even did so in regards to Sonic 2 in this very thread!) but the core mechanics more than make up for it more often than not.
 
I've been trying to get through CD but it's a fucking mess. Every zone looks nearly identical, it's littered with bullshit traps that totally destroy the forward momentum, and the music is just terrible.

Sonic 1 is a solid platformer.
Sonic 2 expands on what Sonic 1 started.
Sonic 3 & K perfects it.
 
Just finished two thirds of Labyrinth Zone.

This zone is like, a lot tamer than I remembered it to be. I lost rings and there was one badnik who was really hard to avoid but so far Marble Zone and Springyard Zone gave me more challenge.

Yeah. I think the people who identify themselves as Sonic fans tend to prefer the later games more. Personally, I identify more as a "platformer fan", so I tend to slide more towards Sonic 1 and Sonic CD.

It also explains why people who like Sonic 2 onwards dislike the game from Mystic Cave Zone onwards, personally, I think that's when the game starts hitting the right notes and I feel like a skilled vetern, but then I'm a massive fan of Revenge of Shinobi so more tricky platforming is right up my alley :P
 
I've been trying to get through CD but it's a fucking mess. Every zone looks nearly identical, it's littered with bullshit traps that totally destroy the forward momentum, and the music is just terrible.

Sonic 1 is a solid platformer.
Sonic 2 expands on what Sonic 1 started.
Sonic 3 & K perfects it.

Sonic CD has terrible music?

What
 
Because I used the block instead of jumping on the platforms that means I'm bad at the game?

Doesn't "bad at the game" usually mean "you die a lot"?

This is what I mentioned earlier. What you posted doesn't require much in actual skill. The only difference is that the person decided to platform instead of using the block. Usually, when playing more difficult games, being bad at the game usually means you need to learn to get better. This is just a gap in game knowledge. It's not a true test in skill.

You are complaining that this is bad game design because the game forces you to ride back and forth in the blocks three times. I quote

This isn't being reflected in my post because it's hard for to describe being able to get past something on my first time because as a kid, I already memorized it, but still manage to say,"well, that's dumb." Like in Marble Zone. There's a section where you ride the block to the other side, go in the secret wall and get the 1 up. There is no spring conveniently placed right next to the 1 up box to continue. Nope. Gotta go on the block and ride it to the other end, and ride it AGAIN to the other opposite end to make the jump. It's poorly designed, slow, plodding. and just because I was able to stomach it as a kid doesn't make it good as an adult. That design decision was patent trash.

The design decision you are calling "patent trash" is just the designers letting people who aren't good, figure out an easy way to get the 1up and then get back in the main route. But people who have a _basic_ understanding of platforming mechanics can do the jump.

Here, bad at the game means "I didn't know there was a better way of doing things". Not necessarily just dying?

This couple of jumps aren't some super timed speed-running secret. There's no gap in knowledge here.

Or are you telling me that you didn't know that Sonic jumped farther the faster he goes? Where exactly is the gap in knowledge. What it is the mechanic you didn't know that didn't let you make that jump? The game is even generous enough to give you rings there so you can try and fall into the lava without dying.

You wanted them to put a spring there but that actually would have taken _no_ skill of the player to quickly get back into the main path. The way it is done, people scared of the jump can ride back and forth, punished by the slowness, but people who dare trying to jump, discover an easy way of doing the area. A spring would instead punish the decent players, by making their ability to make that jump slower than just taking the spring. Normally in game design, letting people skilled take less time and people who are bad just take a safer, slower route is good design...not "patent trash".
 
Sonic 1 remains the best Sonic game.

The real "this was always bad" Sonic game is Sonic 3. Baffles me that anyone likes that game, let alone the regular showings of love it received here. It and S&K are terrible, terrible games. Put me off Sonic games for years.
 
The < 20 demographic on GAF is painful. Nothing can ever be different to their tastes, it's just bad. Lol ok. And if you're an adult, SMH for not realising that and still posting.

Please don't make generalizing statements about a certain demographic that you're not part of. Thanks.
 
Sonic CD has terrible music?

What

Yep. Every song is not only compressed in a garbled, muted state, but nearly every song inhabits some poor imitation of 90's hip-hop, and they're all very same-y. It is by far the worst soundtrack of the original series. At least Sonic R's soundtrack was so bizarre that it became a meme, Sonic CD's music is infinitely forgettable, like the game it's attached to.
 
Because I used the block instead of jumping on the platforms that means I'm bad at the game?

Doesn't "bad at the game" usually mean "you die a lot"?

This is what I mentioned earlier. What you posted doesn't require much in actual skill. The only difference is that the person decided to platform instead of using the block. Usually, when playing more difficult games, being bad at the game usually means you need to learn to get better. This is just a gap in game knowledge. It's not a true test in skill.

But I'm glad you're good at knowing you can just use the platforms instead of using blocks. True test of skill, ElFly.

Knowledge of the game helps you get better at it, no? And knowledge of the game is definitely one of the ways you get better at Sonic, especially when it comes to getting better times.
 
Playing Sonic 2 and on Casino Night. Don't find it very interesting so far but Mystic Cave is next if I remember. Kind of bored.

Nope, Hill Top Zone is next. Then Mystic Cave.

Maybe you don't like the games anymore? Your tastes changed. It happens. Doesn't mean the games are bad.
 
Nope, Hill Top Zone is next. Then Mystic Cave.

Maybe you don't like the games anymore? Your tastes changed. It happens. Doesn't mean the games are bad.

Yup, this has nothing to do with Sonic being bad, maybe you just dont like that kind of gameplay anymore? I play through sonic 1-3&k every few months and I'd like to think ive been having fun this whole time.
 
Nope, Hill Top Zone is next. Then Mystic Cave.

Maybe you don't like the games anymore? Your tastes changed. It happens. Doesn't mean the games are bad.

yeah, if one cannot find joy in Casino Night...pack it up, this excellent series is not for you
 
Yep. Every song is not only compressed in a garbled, muted state, but nearly every song inhabits some poor imitation of 90's hip-hop, and they're all very same-y. It is by far the worst soundtrack of the original series. At least Sonic R's soundtrack was so bizarre that it became a meme, Sonic CD's music is infinitely forgettable, like the game it's attached to.
...US Soundtrack or JP Soundtrack? Cause the REAL (JP) Soundtrack has a lot of House music influence and hardly any hip hop, I mean how can yopu listen to tracks like this and think hip hop?
https://youtu.be/7U9Ci6J_y9I
 
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