Black Lives Matter activists chain themselves to road at Heathrow Airport, UK
- Thread starter Napoleonthechimp
- Start date
- Status
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
BLM does a lot of things that aren't just about the justice system, though. There's still disproportionate stop and search targeting in London and some specific black minority groups are still relatively more likely to be poorer; there's still room for progress. Plus a lot of the BLM movement in the UK has become an umbrella group now, they also campaign against e.g. Islamophobia and anti-Arabism. I was in the Nottingham LGBT+ Pride March the other day, that had a big BLM contingent.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I'm now aware that there's a UK BLM movement, so at the very least it's raised some awareness for their group.
Still I'm a bit confused at the use of the BLM banner here, I had a look at their twitter and all but I'm not 100% sure what the main focus of their protesting is here. Need to do more research I suppose.
EDIT: I guess it's a police brutality thing here also...
Still I'm a bit confused at the use of the BLM banner here, I had a look at their twitter and all but I'm not 100% sure what the main focus of their protesting is here. Need to do more research I suppose.
EDIT: I guess it's a police brutality thing here also...
IdreamofHIME
Member
Heathrow at a standstill? All those Tories suddenly supporting BLM.
andythinkpad
Member
Any tactic that blocks traffic to airport (not a city central street mind you) is as bad as PETA IMO.
Protests and strikes are made to disrupt, if nothing is disrupted then who will notice your action? Telling peaceful protestors to not use tactics because they would disrupt the lives of individuals that aren't supposedly the target of their protests is both naive and an incredibly privileged position to take. Trying to cut off many effective potential tactics that peaceful protestors can use because it could be unpleasant for others only takes away these peoples voices for your convenience. Making change isn't done only through informing others, there always has to be action. If no action is made in consideration to who it might displease, then no change will be made.
ClosingADoor
Member
I talked about the video earlier in the thread. It is a confused message all around, and suddenly drags in the refugee crisis also, which is totally unrelated.
The name is linked in peoples mind to American police brutality. So if you protest against other things in the UK, I'd pick a different name and make the message more clear to avoid confusion and dismissal by people.
ExtremePopcorn
Member
The campaign and name isn't particularly relevant to the increased incidents of racism post-Brexit, the incidents aren't specifically against Black people. In fact they seem to be aimed more at eastern Europeans and other minorities. I don't see how a 'Black Lives Matter' protest does anything to increase the awareness of this.
People will associate 'Black Lives Matter' with the American movement, it's gained so much coverage in the media and on social media that most people understand what it is and what the movement is about.
You're right that UK doesn't have the issues that America suffers from and people know this, which is why using a name that is so heavily associated with it destroys any message they may have because people will discount it due to the name.
John Kowalski
Banned
How do you chain yourself to a road?
nah, just go and sit in this "protest zone" we set up for you.
Ya know what, that' actually damn good question...
Lot's of glue?
Spring-Loaded
Member
There's a video on their Twitter account.
Black Lives Matter movement isn't just anti-police brutality. Just take the name in the most literal way, and know that it's being said in response to practices/actions/policies that more-or-less state "black lives don't matter."
"Your comfort is my silence"
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
We really should start a list on successful protests that don't inconvenience people.
Sitting and waiting to pay at a restaurant.
Honestly, I really don't think the sort of protests that happen in the US make sense here. I can't think of anything recent that would spark this.
How do you protest inequality in this sense? A minority area that is under funded, such as Croydon is even less funded than the vast majority of other English cities.
If this isn't an anti-austerity protest, what are they asking for? We have anti-racism laws in place. What is Heathrow going to do?
How do you protest inequality in this sense? A minority area that is under funded, such as Croydon is even less funded than the vast majority of other English cities.
If this isn't an anti-austerity protest, what are they asking for? We have anti-racism laws in place. What is Heathrow going to do?
Audioboxer
Member
But what is protesting at an airport going to actually change? Airports are not a source of a problem for the UK.
Protesting Brexit before it happened would... target Brexit. Protesting outside Westminster may target the Governments policies/attitudes.
As I've said more intelligent battles can be picked rather than just going for causing the most disruption when said disruption doesn't appear to actually be aimed at anything? That's the difference compared to many historic causes of disruption that actually not only caused said disruption, but the disruption itself had some tie to a problem (Rosa Parks on the bus being a historic example... there was a massive racist issue towards segregating blacks and whites in all public places/transport/etc).
An airport is like one of the most diverse places possible.
I understand the logic behind such concerns, I just feel the movement itself and the people of the UK could pull through and push aside much of the misguided finger-pointing coming from Americans (at say UK police) or coming from UKers thinking BLM can only be tied to America.
Said it better than I did.
A good portion still dont
Edit: Also how many times do we have to tell people that protests are supposed to annoy, inconvenience and disturb your daily routine. That's the entire point otherwise most will just sleep walk past the issues and think because they aren't actively racist or fucking over minorities that they're one of the good guys and on the right side of history. No sorry, you're just as much a part of the problem as anyone else and these protests are often a rude wake up call, the pitcher of water thrown in your face to wake you up when you've overslept in the morning.
In my experience, people who say that some minor thing "destroys" the message don't actually give a shit about the message in the first place.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Seems like it's about how various problems (from employment, education, sentencing, police brutality/killing) are disproportionately affecting black people around the world. It's not saying those are problems exclusive for people who are black. Xenophobia has been strong there, and has been more evident following Brexit — xenophobia and racism is related to the issues this UK Black Lives Matter movement are protesting. Seems relatively appropriate here.
What is confusing about the message, and what would you consider to be "focused" and "clear" messaging for this movement?
Still completely missing the point though
MarkMclovin
Member
Where are they getting their stats from in their video? They just don't seem to be right. Eye opener if true though.
I don't see how doing something like this here isn't going to put them in more of a negative light that a positive one. What was that guy that said you can make a difference buy taking your money out of the banks? I thought that suggestion was far better.
EDIT - Oh this is in regards to Mark Duggan being shot 5 years ago? Yeesh, that ain't gonna go down well.
I don't see how doing something like this here isn't going to put them in more of a negative light that a positive one. What was that guy that said you can make a difference buy taking your money out of the banks? I thought that suggestion was far better.
EDIT - Oh this is in regards to Mark Duggan being shot 5 years ago? Yeesh, that ain't gonna go down well.
K, it took me a long time and a couple of bans to figure out that US != UK, but I don't really support this idea or at least am entirely oblivious to the purpose of this protest here.
At the very least, don't call it Black Lives Matter when economic inequality is affecting other minorities to a drastic extent.
--
I really want to say I fear that race relations with be worsened by this. We don't need to give people who have never met a non-white person more reason to want to vote UKIP.
At the very least, don't call it Black Lives Matter when economic inequality is affecting other minorities to a drastic extent.
--
I really want to say I fear that race relations with be worsened by this. We don't need to give people who have never met a non-white person more reason to want to vote UKIP.
Snarfington
Member
I want to support these folks as the UK could definitely do with some level of protest on this stuff (especially in educational institutions where I've sat in on staff meetings with extreme prejudice on display) but they're just throwing out hyperbolic NUS-tier statements and it just comes off as silly in places even when their overall approach is very good and I agree with them. I wouldn't be surprised if the NUS had a big part of this, in fact.
Kenshin001
Member
I really question their chances of successfully achieving their aims by making people miss their flights. Like the average person is not going to say well now that I've missed my flight and my vacation is ruined I will endeavour to strive against the oppression of black people.
It's about trying to stay ahead of the curve so they have an excuse to not do anything good when asked "nicely."
I mean, the US and UK are pretty vast when it comes to the treatment of blacks. That is more the issue with the US and the stigma it carries along with it (for good reason), but it still carries its message or race equality across borders.
Disenfranchised blacks are everywhere, and usually in larger proportions than their white counterparts by a decent bit.
Indeed.
Dusk Soldier
Member
The problem though is that whenever people bring up the other issues effecting black lives, (Gun violence within the black community for instance is the largest cause of black deaths in the US), BLM always gives responses like: "Our movement is focused on police brutality, there are other groups already that deal with those issues."
People associate BLM with police brutality because it's the main issue the group was founded on, and rallied around. And the most prominent issue it focuses on.
To be honest, I think the fact that it's a leaderless organization is really hurting it.
It needs a clear definable objective that people can point to and work towards.
Messofanego
Banned
People might wanna read the Guardian article about the specific injustices and this being timed with the anniversary of Mark Duggan's death.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-matter-protest-sparks-heathrow-traffic-chaos
Do not use Sadiq Khan as a token that bigotry doesn't exist. Did you suddenly forget Zac Goldsmith's smear racist campaign against him?
Did you forget the rise in hate crimes post-Brexit or after any terrorist attack towards innocent civilians? Muslim women being assaulted and shoved towards trains?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-matter-protest-sparks-heathrow-traffic-chaos
Natasha Nkonde, a UKBLM activist, said: [Duggan] represents another death in police custody with no consequences. Black people are overrepresented in these cases. In the past year weve had Mzee Mohammed, Sarah Reed, Jermaine Baker we are in a crisis about the brutality being inflicted on black people. Sarah Reed had mental health issues and was beaten up by the police and found dead.
Were upset about the 3,0000 deaths in the Mediterranean this year and of course post-Brexit we know theres been a 57% increase in hate crimes. We are seeing people talking about how they are being attacked, abused in the streets.
...Were upset about the 3,0000 deaths in the Mediterranean this year and of course post-Brexit we know theres been a 57% increase in hate crimes. We are seeing people talking about how they are being attacked, abused in the streets.
Other forms of protests have been exhausted and so the disruption today is bringing back to the mainstream discussions around black lives and the racist structures and inequalities we know about.
Nkonde said: The delays for people on their way to holidays are regrettable but were talking about injustices, 1,500 families [whose relatives have died in police custody], who have been given no justice, no convictions.
...Nkonde said: The delays for people on their way to holidays are regrettable but were talking about injustices, 1,500 families [whose relatives have died in police custody], who have been given no justice, no convictions.
Calling for Fridays protests, the group highlighted that black people are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested, convicted, die in police custody and receive harsher sentencing. It also said that black people are more likely to be unemployed than white people, more likely to be permanently excluded from school and referenced the increase in reported racist hate crimes since the Brexit vote.
Do not use Sadiq Khan as a token that bigotry doesn't exist. Did you suddenly forget Zac Goldsmith's smear racist campaign against him?
Did you forget the rise in hate crimes post-Brexit or after any terrorist attack towards innocent civilians? Muslim women being assaulted and shoved towards trains?
Well I think of the treatment of my own family and friends, and I have no anecdotes, not even media exposure to what could warrant this.
ExtremePopcorn
Member
It's an admirable wish but in a country where people struggle to accept and understand information about a situation that will directly affect them (Brexit), do you think they will back a movement they completely disassociate from themselves?
I'd hardly call the name of the movement a minor thing, why would people care about the message when they instantly associate the name with a movement and issue in a different country and society?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think they're actually right re: minorities being over represented as far as police deaths go. I'm looking at the stats from the ONS and they're actually mildly underrepresented. That said, all the rest is true.
I feel for you in this regard. But in the end it comes down to your own willingness to fight against your own personal oppressions. Blacks in the UK are fighting for their own, because they feel it matters to them, and their future generations.
And in the US, shit. It's a fight to survive first.
You don't need to always be physically protesting at places that are the direct targets of the movement. Blocking highways is a tactic largely meant for a large amount of disruption, these actions raise general awareness. If they chanted with signs outside of a government building then we wouldn't be talking about the UK BLM. Besides, if their target is general racism then there aren't many focal points to protest at, they would need to protest for awareness.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Depends on what you want to make the line for responsibility. Syria, as a country, with its current borders and sectarian structure, was a product of the British and French division and colonisation of the Middle East. Insofar as the conflict has anti-Alawite sentiment, the UK played a fair part in that.
Sentiment like yours is far more stupid to have than doing this.
MilkyJoe
Member
Apparently they are protesting here. Looks like a bunch of student wannabes to me. They are citing 1562 killed in police custody with no convictions, since 1993.
1562 is the total of the all races. The actual number of black people that died is 156
http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/bame-deaths-in-police-custody
Edit The actual number of black people that died is 156 is incorrect this is ALL of the non white population.
Iraq? Afghanistan? And how those wars helped spawn ISIS??
The key there is someone. Not everyone.
Shit like this is super counter productive.
Spring-Loaded
Member
That's such a weird takeaway. I mean, you may be right that the average person doesn't care about anyone else they don't know personally, but there are also people out there that are unaware of (the extent of) these issues, and can still ultimately sympathize with this movement/protest.
It's like the "we have a [insert minority] leader here, so racism isn't a problem!" notion still isn't a played out joke over there. Or maybe it's more like "I have a _____ friend, so I'm obviously not racist."
It's like going back in time
How does that number compare proportionately against other groups
What's the purpose of protest?
ClosingADoor
Member
For starters, I would change the name to avoid the link between the American issues of police brutality and especially shootings. Because that is the first thing people think of and might easily dismiss as a non-issue in most of Europe.
The post-Brexit racism has been targeted also largely at Eastern Europeans and Muslims I think. So putting them together in a Black Lives Matter movement is a bit confusing already.
The strength of Black Lives Matters and why it gained traction seemed to me because there was this clear and now - due to more cameras and internet - visible problem of police brutality. You can show the stats, you can show the images.
Once you add a dozen different issues to that message, it gets unclear, even if those are real issues - because racism in Europe is certainly not something that has been solved, and in some areas is even worse then in the US.
For protests like this, I'd pick one part of the problem - for example the unemployment or education issue - and hammer that down peoples heads so they can't ignore it. I have no problem with protests or disrupting something for a bit. But if people can't see why it is done, then the message is lost. And that's a shame, because European countries have their issues with this that should not be ignored.
+- 13% of the UK seems to be non-white. So pretty much in line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_the_United_Kingdom
However, I don't see a breakdown of black people in that police number.
Audioboxer
Member
Fair point, but I'd argue that starting a completely new movement and trying to gain traction with it is not an easy task.
You then ironically possibly have people saying why didn't they protest under the already established BLM movement? Splinter groups that have common goals can just dilute the waters too much at times.
I'd still ask why target an airport/airport traffic? Okay I'll accept you have to protest somewhere, but again I'll say an airport is one of the most diverse places in the UK, has tons of innocent families traveling, ironically many immigrants (possibly not even UK residents but visitors)/non-white and lastly I'll put forward the concern around security in/around airports.
Overall I just find an airport/airport traffic to be one of the least effective places that could be disrupted for the reasons above and others people have suggested already. It comes across more like a publicity stunt which the movement doesn't necessarily need at this point. It already has global traction and is known is households, so what it needs now is focused protest towards areas of potential issue, whether it be schools/government buildings and public areas where diversity may be lacking.
Some of y'all really need to read Letter from a Birmingham Jail.
"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. "
- MLK, Jr
Crisis. Tension.
Yep, sounds like some quiet, non-annoying, out-of-the-way protesting to me.
I mean that's a bit of a stretch really isn't it. It's much more viable to say that Assad/Russia/ISIS/Iraq/Iran/USA/Rebels/Arab Spring are the root cause.
It's a globalised world so everyone has a hand in everything going back hundreds of years, but to say the UK caused the Syrian civil war? Come on now.
I also feel like the fact that deaths in custody of BAME people are lower than those of white people in the UK somewhat dilute parts of their message, which is a shame because they have some good points - and one's that aren't controversial.
Our PM, a white person and a Tory, slammed the police for institutional racism (especially the Met in London) for years so it isn't really a surprise, but something that we all need to be more pissed off about.
Trying to find more shit to stick on a wall when you have cement already isn't a good look.
I'm a white male and understand my privilege in this discussion, but think my arguments hold up despite this.
Carry signs in a corner somewhere, far away from the eyes of the pubic.
That corner will learn the meaning of the word "oppressed".
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked