I wasn't speaking for the entirety of humanity, I was just generalizing a bit to say that BLM can and does support other causes outside of the black community and vice versa, white people have come together with BLM despite not being, well black.
Black Lives Matter activists chain themselves to road at Heathrow Airport, UK
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I wasn't speaking for the entirety of humanity, I was just generalizing a bit to say that BLM can and does support other causes outside of the black community and vice versa, white people have come together with BLM despite not being, well black.
Whites being killed are equal to blacks being killed, that's why they support.
This is mostly in the US, where police violence is higher mind, but can be applicable elsewhere..
I'm talking about UK because I live here and this is about UK BLM.
Which I remain unconvinced is needed in the way it's acting thus. I appreciate the ideal but I'm not sure it's helping.
In US I have no idea other than being of the view US needs a lot of work in this area and is in a much worse situation than UK with regards racism and Black equality
Because the central focus of the movement is the inequal treatment, opportunities, and valuation of black lives worldwide.
This of course branches off into topics that affect white people. Police injustice, while primarily focused on black people, latinos, and native americans, can occur to white people due to the power complex often involved in those matters separate to the discrimination. That jogger for example would be an instance, or the woman who was punched in the face repeatedly by a police officer.
It's much as how feminism is primarily focused on the inequality of women, but often branches off into how this inequality affects men without losing the central issue.
I'm fine with supporting. I'm saying why is it called BLACK Lives Matter if the focus on killing across the spectrum... does that make sense? Maybe I'm not saying it properly.
Spring-Loaded
Member
If you literally don't know anything about the movement beyond its name, then sure.
"Batman" is about a man wielding a baseball bat. "The Honeymooners" is about people working in honey farms on the moon
However, if you do know a modicum of information about the situation the movement began in, then the sentiment is clear. That's how language works: context
Showing that "black lives matter" can be applied elsewhere seems more worhtwhile than achieving a particular level of specificity of language in order to appease people who would find ways to dismiss the movement regardless.
MilkyJoe
Member
I think people are misunderstanding. There is inherent strength and meaning found in a movement's name. If your movement is to primarily focus on black people then BLM makes sense. Anything outside of that and you're just stretching yourself too wide and diluting your organization's message and strength.
These are some of the worst examples I've seen.
Blacks as currently seen as lesser in the eyes of many, especially in the US where the movement is routed.
It's to bring blacks up to the point of being equal amongst others.
CelticKnight
Member
If they have legit grievances with something I think they might have been better off not using the BLM banner to stage this protest under.
As it is the average person is just going to assume it's a bunch of students who have seen what's happening in the US, wanted to be a part of it, and started doing it over here just for sake of it despite the UK not really having problem with coppers killing black people willy nilly.
As it is the average person is just going to assume it's a bunch of students who have seen what's happening in the US, wanted to be a part of it, and started doing it over here just for sake of it despite the UK not really having problem with coppers killing black people willy nilly.
Lol are you serious? What is this counter factual history? You really think that Isis was inevitable and not because of the destabilization of the region caused by western wars? Isis people are the product of ruin and loss of stability after the wars.
"The voices of blacks should be heard, but not if it ruins people's vacation plans" - Martin Luther King Jr.
Sounds loud and clear to me guys.
Sounds like they want a twitter hashtag to raise awareness on twitter and to possibly get others to participate in protests as well.
ClosingADoor
Member
But they are linking to police brutality and killings. I think in the UK that issue is different then in the US and just copying the same message might then not reach the best result and even dismissal from people who would otherwise agree with the message of equality and anti-racism.
They're getting their voices heard, sure, but rather than empathizing with the movement people will just get angry.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Being in prison isn't the only form of being in "police custody"
And you still started out and finished with flat percentages of the police killings, as if that proves some kind of a point. There are more white people in the UK, so there will be more white people killed, but that doesn't mean anything in a discussion about problems being proportionately greater for minority populations. Can't think of a more simple way to put it.
You still don't get what's being discussed, and I'm sorry I can't elucidate for you.
You said you don't understand how Black Lives Matter would protest of a wrongful killing of a white person by police, asking "why would they be called BLM?"
Right?
If it still affects black people in the UK at higher rates, then what's the issue?
I really don't feel it is diluting the message. I mean, look right now, before this thread, did you ever reflect on how many white people BLM is protesting for? Likely not, because the central focus is still on the plethora of black cases. It is not really stretching to have a local sector say "Hey, this case of white on white police violence isn't acceptable, and reflects the unfortunate power play that affects black people in higher amounts." Still related to the message.
Also, do you all really think when MLK was marching on the streets of Washington or Birmingham, there weren't people merely trying to drive down to Florida for a vacation?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Holding up a table. Inefficient servers.
At some point, we just need to be okay that protest is disruptive, inconvenient. Protests work where reason has failed. Protests are fertilized by our apathy.
CyberPunked
Member
Isis is the product of religion. Like I said, those wars may have sparked it's formation, but ultimately the true cause lies within the ideology it's based on, religion.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Heathrow is everyone?
had a discussion with a guy over facebook about this and he started talking some deep seated racist shit.
they said Russia making BLM as a recognised terrorist group was good for the following reason:
they they linked to this:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/image...670c3b670610dcdc6b8072668e43379f5b5f55224.png
and started using the argument of black on black and black on white crime to dismiss the way authorities treat minorities.
and they finished up with using genetics to explain that black people are more violent:
So yeah Racism is very much alive in this country.
they said Russia making BLM as a recognised terrorist group was good for the following reason:
they they linked to this:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/image...670c3b670610dcdc6b8072668e43379f5b5f55224.png
and started using the argument of black on black and black on white crime to dismiss the way authorities treat minorities.
and they finished up with using genetics to explain that black people are more violent:
So yeah Racism is very much alive in this country.
We are getting off topic here but people don't do war solely out because of ideology but because of contributing economic, material, infrastructural, and institutional factors that make people do terrible things.
Iraq and Afghanistan would've looked wildly different if it wasn't for the UK and the US doing imperialistic shit.
Damn he hit all the racist fuck bag bullet points
God damn.
Any disruptive protest will be met with some anger by people, that's just reality. If you protest in a way to avoid any possible resentment towards your movement then you wouldn't be protesting.
ThatStupidLion
Member
I'm all for protesting and voicing your concerns to bring light to issues, but don't waste other peoples time and money
ClosingADoor
Member
Because it is importing the issue from the US to the UK as if the problems are the same. They aren't.
What are the numbers for black people being killed? Because for all minorities it is pretty much in line with the population from what I've looked up. Don't know if there is more data about that.
But it just seems to me the movement wouldn't get as much dismissal if it wasn't grouped together with the American one, simply because the issues in the UK are not a one-on-one copy of the American ones.
That's not on BLM UK to teach people just because of some name. It's on people refusing to understand how racist and antiblack the UK is if they are deterred from misunderstanding a name.
http://socialistreview.org.uk/351/growing-racism-britain
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom
This concern trolling about the name is just ridiculous
Aaronology
Member
That's glaringly obvious. This thread has been an interesting glimpse into how in denial some are regarding this fact, despite everything that's happened in the UK over the last several months. The very exact arguments that were employed to death in critique of BLM in the US are getting a fresh lease on life here, too, with a coating of dismissiveness on top for extra flavor.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Impressive that BLM has grown so much it's becoming an international force. They have a great track record of success so it would be interesting to see if they could branch out into different countries minorities rights issues though they might need a name change in some of the locations to help specify they are protesting minority rights issues not just black rights.
I could imagine there's an interesting cross-over between posts who are against 'immigrants' (aka 'brown people') and Islam in other threads, and posts who are either denying racism exists in the UK or who thinks this is an inappropriate way to protest.
What about wasting other people's lives?
How does that rationale work? "Protest away! wait wait no, don't inconvenience me in any way when you do it, protest somewhere else"
I don't like the Tories but that really isn't fair. This is actually an area where Theresa May deserves credit. Here's an article from awhile ago but I think it demonstrates her relationship with the police pretty well:
DragonSworne
Banned
That's because they were angry and frustrated about the roads being closed and buses not running.
If they didn't inconvenience all those white people then maybe black people would have won their civil rights back then.
The thing about people coming out against Black Lives Matter is, at this point, it's pretty clear how history is going to look at that group. They're one of the most prominent voices of the new civil rights era, and in 50 years, many of the people involved will be looked at as our generation's MLK or Rosa Parks. And to those of you with your arms crossed acting all hot and bothered, your grandchildren will read about this in class, and ask you if you marched, if you protested, if you supported Black Lives Matter.
And you'll scrunch up your nose a bit, look off into the distance, and lie, "Yeah, of course."
And you'll scrunch up your nose a bit, look off into the distance, and lie, "Yeah, of course."
Spring-Loaded
Member
I won't comment on how much dismissal it would receive in the UK, but I can't count the number of comments finding ways to criticize Black Lives Matter methods of protesting in the U.S. and of criticism of actions of unarmed people who got shot. Those people aren't worth appeasing, full stop. People who are incapable of empathy won't suddenly become empathetic through slightly more precise and formal marketing strategies.
Again, there's net benefit to sharing the movement name. It may not be perfect, but it is not harmful. The scrutiny is best directed elsewhere in this circumstances e.g. scrutinize American police practices rather than the people protesting the wrongful killings.
Kenshin001
Member
I remember that other famous MLK quote, "The only way the white man will show empathy and solidarity with the black man is by making him miss his flight." Actually, I imagine MLK knew what would be counter productive and what wouldn't which is why he never blocked access to New York International Airport.
Spring-Loaded
Member
The March on Washington was originally intended to be a complete shutdown of the city, iirc.
He was also arrested a few times
iirc
Though surely that must have been because he was being too unobtrusive. Or for his own safety
yeah
The most interesting thing about the BLMUK video is how much they focus on the immigration issues, and how they say that it's Britain's fault all those African and Syrian refugees are drowning. That's a different perspective.
I highly doubt it. For better or worse, BLM isn't centralized, which means that it can't have rallying leaders. That alone significantly distances it from the civil rights movement of the '60s, which was highly organized (why we remember Rosa Parks—because she was specifically chosen to be the face of Montgomery discrimination.) The Black Panthers aren't universally loved in retrospect, so it seems like "right side of history" isn't a pretty clear line.
I highly doubt it. For better or worse, BLM isn't centralized, which means that it can't have rallying leaders. That alone significantly distances it from the civil rights movement of the '60s, which was highly organized (why we remember Rosa Parks—because she was specifically chosen to be the face of Montgomery discrimination.) The Black Panthers aren't universally loved in retrospect, so it seems like "right side of history" isn't a pretty clear line.
Yup.
I'm very thankful for BLM and it's actually one of the positive things to see in a world that's going in the wrong direction (historic inequality, climate change, rise of fascism, etc)
This has got to be some kind of joke, right? There's nobody involved in this movement that even comes close to MLK Jr. or Rosa Parks.
What do you mean? I don't see why anyone would be against BLM's ideals and ambitions. In fact, I think more people should join and support the groups that strive towards dismantling white supremacy.
I'm sure you would have been against the Civil Rights Movement, too.
There are always going to be people on the wrong side of history. I suppose you're one of them.
Spring-Loaded
Member
You mean there's no one who's names and actions are remembered 60 years after these late 2010s protests?
well damn, I guess you're right!
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