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[RobotNinjaHornets]

For everyone saying that you don't agree with their methods, what would you suggest?

Because to be honest, saying that a protest about black people getting killed by the police shouldn't disrupt people from getting to Heathrow is kind of fucked

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Do you guys keep lists of acceptable white people? Are southern Europeans good now?

As with all things, it's whichever groups are seen as 'unintelligent, violent, leeches' etc... and that for us right now is poor (or stereotypically Eastern) Europeans. I really do think the perception of a country as poor or underdeveloped has a lot to do with it. People freaked the fuck out about Romania and Bulgaria when they joined the EU to the point of news outlets waiting at the airport and interviewing new migrants. I think they actually only got one guy from Romania on that day though...

Aside from those dastardly whites, we were horrible about Syrians and then saw that dead kid and were like 'oh fuck, these are actually other human beings' and we cared for a while but it's middling out now and we'll be back to hating them soon, I'm sure.

 

[Hazzuh]

On racism and policing in the UK I think there are a few important points to make which makes the situation different from the USA. One is that the London police are an exceptional case, they seem to be much more violent than other police forces and there seems to be a larger demographic mismatch between them and the people they police. The second is that are major right-wing party isn't in total denial about racism in the police. Theresa May when she was Home Secretary went after the London Met for being "too white" and she attacked them for disproportionally stopping and search black men.

 

[Audioboxer]

For everyone saying that you don't agree with their methods, what would you suggest?

Because to be honest, saying that a protest about black people getting killed by the police shouldn't disrupt people from getting to Heathrow is kind of fucked

Well for everyone mentioning Brexit they could have done more during Brexit rather than in it's aftermath. Protesting Farage public speaking appearances would have been one thing. Heck anyone from the leave campaign for that matter. Protesting outside of Westminster as well.

For everyone thinking disrupting an airport is a good thing I personally think the onus is on you to explain why it's good. If your answer is just causing the most disruption to the most people possible is the best move, then, you have to accept you're going to attract some attention which isn't positive towards your movement as the net is that wide it will piss off innocent bystanders.

Not to mention in recent times airports have been the subject of a lot of nervousness. If you want a potentially bad outcome from an accident it's causing disruption or acting suspicious around a damn airport. Quite honestly I just don't think any sort of protest or disruption around or near an airport is a wise move. To me that is largely based on safety concerns and common sense in a world of fear around terror attacks at airports (even if some of that fear is blown out of proportion).

 

[jem0208]

i think the fella is trying to make the point that all lives matter.

If that’s the case then fair enough. That probably should have been specified though because it kinda looks like they’re trying to spin the stats in their favour. I mean it was a Black Lives Matter video and everything else focused on issues faced by black people.


That stat is especially misleading considering from Crab’s post it appears black and minorities are actually underrepresented in deaths in police custody.

 

[CyberPunked]

They're in the UK now? Fuck sake.

 

[Showaddy]

That also means 10% of those deaths were ethnic minorities whereas ethnic minorities are 14% of the UK population, so minorities are actually underrepresented. That said London has a big problem with disproportionate targeting of stop and search, so there is definitely room for a pro-justice movement.

Stop & Search has dropped massively though, now to the point that knife crime has shot up in London so peoples concerns are already being taken into account.

 

[Acosta]

You are not going to earn any sympathy making people lose their flights.

The access to Heathrow is usually a chaos, so this is a good way to put your movement in a negative light.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Can someone explain to me the point of this?
Is police brutality against black people a major problem in the UK as well?

 

[ghst]

If that’s the case then fair enough. That probably should have been specified though because it kinda looks like they’re trying to spin the stats in their favour. I mean it was a Black Lives Matter video and everything else focused on issues faced by black people.

maybe they should change their hashtag?

 

[zpiders]

Disrupting normal people of all races and class from going about there normal business is not the way to protest, all it does is make normal people pissed off.

They should be protesting outside Westminster or Downing Street.

 

[Fat4all]

They're in the UK now? Fuck sake.

black people are everywhere

 

[CyberPunked]

black people are everywhere

Lol, nice.

 

[Tecnniqe]

For everyone saying that you don't agree with their methods, what would you suggest?

Because to be honest, saying that a protest about black people getting killed by the police shouldn't disrupt people from getting to Heathrow is kind of fucked

Honestly, why is it ok to disrupt people who had nothing to do with it? Delay and cause frustration on innocent people trying to get to work or get to their plane in time for vacation or whatever?

As far as I know the police in the UK is far from as bad as US when it comes to killing minorities, but justifying disruptive actions and calling it a shutdown on people who just want to go about their daily lives is not right either.

You should have spoken up during the massive immigrant talk due to brexit and made attention to it that way. Demonstrate in parks, in malls or something, not lay down on a highway and cause blockage.

 

[Volimar]

black people are everywhere

In my neighborhood? It's more likely than you think!

Honestly, why is it ok to disrupt people who had nothing to do with it? Delay and cause frustration on innocent people try to get to work or get to their plane in time for vacation or whatever?

As far as I know the police in the UK is far from as bad as US when it comes to killing minorities, but justifying disruptive actions and calling it a shutdown on people who just want to go about their daily lives is not right either.

You should have spoken up during the massive immigrant talk due to brexit and made attention to it that way. Demonstrate in parks, in malls or something, not lay down on a highway and cause blockage.

They're not trying to punish people, they're desperately trying to not be handwaved away by the powers that be and tryin to get people to realize that there's an actual problem. And if it's between being ignored like they've been for decades or being disruptive of "innocent people's" lives, then they'll be disruptive.

 

[BokehKing]

Disrupting normal people of all races and class from going about there normal business is not the way to protest, all it does is make normal people pissed off.

They should be protesting outside Westminster or Downing Street.

Exactly!
It's effecting what? Maybe 5-10% of their target audience, and pissing the hell off everyone else who is using the airport (which surprise surprise, is not just the white devils)

 

[Infinite]

Stop & Search has dropped massively though, now to the point that knife crime has shot up in London so peoples concerns are already being taken into account.

This made me laugh because the same thing was said about Stop & Frisk in New York City. Of course crime actually went down here despite the fear mongering.

 

[Fat4all]

Lol, nice.

 

[Aaronology]

No, no, no. You've done it again. We're talking about policing here and I detailed how the policing is light years ahead. We can have a discussion about citizenry if you want but I have only really discussed policing or people's reactions to policing.

I think you're confused. Policing is not what was being discussed and was not what I replied to when I brought up Brexit, so I am not sure why you quoted me and segued to that from the claim that the UK is significantly less racist than the US.

This is becoming a digression and we don't appear to be in disagreement so let's move on, eh?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Stop & Search has dropped massively though, now to the point that knife crime has shot up in London so peoples concerns are already being taken into account.

I think the point is not the frequency of stop and search but the proportion of people targeted by it, but yeah, there has been an improvement the last 3 years.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

You are not going to earn any sympathy making people lose their flights.

The access to Heathrow is usually a chaos, so this is a good way to put your movement in a negative light.

If "gumming up travel" is all it takes for someone to see this movement in a negative light, they weren't going to support this cause regardless.

Just FYI: If people's ease of travel being affected makes you stop caring, then you are equating "convenience" and what these people are protesting against, if not outright saying the former is more significant than the latter. In that case, you are part of the problem and part of what they're protesting.

Exactly!
It's effecting what? Maybe 5-10% of their target audience, and pissing the hell off everyone else who is using the airport (which surprise surprise, is not just the white devils)

Consider yourself lucky that you and your dad can't fathom why this protest is worthwhile — it'd be blissful to be so out of touch to not be able to see how bad things really are.

And none of these Black Lives Matter protests are meant to "target" only the "white devils" (seriously?).

 

[Infinite]

Exactly!
It's effecting what? Maybe 5-10% of their target audience, and pissing the hell off everyone else who is using the airport (which surprise surprise, is not just the white devils)

You somehow seem to think they are aiming to simply spite white people with this protest.

 

[BocoDragon]

I saw a black guy on Doctor Who once so I don't even think this is necessary in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I saw a black guy on Doctor Who once so I don't even think this is necessary in the UK.

Until there is a black Doctor, racism will never truly be vanquished.

Spoiler

plz Chiwetel

 

[Volimar]

I saw a black guy on Doctor Who once so I don't even think this is necessary in the UK.

There was even a black companion!

 

[Messofanego]

Good. People need to be shaken out of their apathy. That involves inconvenience. An important cause shouldn't be easily ignored. It's already started a discussion and destroying myths like there's no racism in the UK or that Brits are somehow more civilised towards minorities. They've already succeeded.

Always relevant about moderates:

 

[ExtremePopcorn]

For everyone saying that you don't agree with their methods, what would you suggest?

Because to be honest, saying that a protest about black people getting killed by the police shouldn't disrupt people from getting to Heathrow is kind of fucked

It's not so much their methods but their message, using 'Black Lives Matter' instantly makes people associate with the movement in American and what it's centered around.

While we are no means perfect and racism is still a major issue our police aren't gunning down innocent black people day after day so most people will discount them and their message without a second thought because their associate the name with the American movement and problem.

It doesn't help that their facts and figures can be picked apart pretty quickly and found to be exaggerated to suit their message.

I also think a young black person in the UK has far more in common with a young white working class person in terms of inequality than they do with an American black person.

 

[cm osi]

#shutdown borders?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I saw a black guy on Doctor Who once so I don't even think this is necessary in the UK.

It's stunning to see the sentiment shared here — completely straight-faced — that this isn't an issue in the UK, or Germany, or just about anywhere else in the world. People have a really narrow idea of the problem elsewhere, and considering how often there are people like this:

Same here. Are they protesting about the situation in the US or here? We aren't perfect, but we don't have anywhere near the same kind of issues with police shootings, so I assume its about the former.

who can't even fathom that these problems exist in their homeland, this protest is especially important.

 

[Izuna]

In the UK?

...

Right so. Why?

 

[Coxy100]

god nothing against peaceful protests - but not blockading airports. That's not fair on the holidaymakers who need to get to their flights. You work hard and save for a holiday and then this. It's an easy way for causes to lose support by blocking there.

I read that an ambulance got delayed too in Birmingham - that's just sick.

 

[Fat4all]

In the UK?

...

Right so. Why?

inequality exists everywhere

 

[deli2000]

It's funny that for all the appeals to disenfranchised white brexit voters, who caused long term social & economic damage to this country, no one is even trying to empathize here because there was a 30 minute delay to get to an airport.

"Stop calling leave voters racist!" people said while turning a blind eye to the actual victims of post brexit racism. Now this protest happens and suddenly there's no sympathy.

 

[Izuna]

inequality exists everywhere

Yes but BLM's mission is to put a stop to police brutality isn't it?

 

[Lime]

the same sentiment of saying racism and anti-blackness is a US problem and not a European/UK one is also expressed elsewhere and actually pretty common. Total biscuit usually says shit like this and I've seen Dutch posters here on GAF who thought racism and police profiling were nonexistent in the Netherlands

Im glad people are taking action. I hope other people join in or support

 

[Audioboxer]

It's not so much their methods but their message, using 'Black Lives Matter' instantly makes people associate with the movement in American and what it's centered around.

While we are no means perfect and racism is still a major issue our police aren't gunning down innocent black people day after day so most people will discount them and their message without a second thought because their associate the name with the American movement and problem.

It doesn't help that their facts and figures can be picked apart pretty quickly and found to be exaggerated to suit their message.

I also think a young black person in the UK has far more in common with a young white working class person in terms of inequality than they do with an American black person.

I can't agree with this. As much as I've argued about the method of protest in here the actual campaign and name is more relevant than ever in the UK in the wake of Brexit. We have the facts and media coverage to show many racists feel more comfortable than ever now being public in the UK.

Wrongful association to America will largely come from Americans now asking if the UK suffers from the same core issues as them. What matters is UK citizens know we don't and issues we have here are UK based and not simply a replica of America. Americans making false assumptions can just be corrected by us Brits. Especially around police forces where we are light years ahead.

 

[Lime]

Yes but BLM's mission is to put a stop to police brutality isn't it?

It's against anti-blackness and white supremacy. It's not just police brutality

 

[zpiders]

Good. People need to be shaken out of their apathy. That involves inconvenience. An important cause shouldn't be easily ignored. It's already started a discussion and destroying myths like there's no racism in the UK or that Brits are somehow more civilised towards minorities. They've already succeeded.

Always relevant about moderates:

Sorry but I disagree, the UK are civilised towards minorities. Of course its not perfect but as a minority myself, I have never felt it was a roadblock for me in achieving anything. Hell we even have an Asian Muslim guy as the mayor of our capital city!

 

[Kenshin001]

Nothing draws sympathy and support for your cause like making people miss their flight. This will probably have the opposite effect and just make people think BLMUK are fucking idiots.

 

[Volimar]

I read that an ambulance got delayed too in Birmingham - that's just sick.

Nana Ruth!

Ambulances get rerouted all the time because of traffic jams and the like. If there was any kind of significant delay, that's on the dispatch personnel.

Sorry but I disagree, the UK are civilised towards minorities. Of course its not perfect but as a minority myself, I have never felt it was a roadblock for me in achieving anything. Hell we even have an Asian Muslim guy as the mayor of our capital city!

Oh I totally agree. I mean, racism has been non existent here in the US since we got us a black president.

 

[Zaphrynn]

Good. People need to be shaken out of their apathy. That involves inconvenience. An important cause shouldn't be easily ignored. It's already started a discussion and destroying myths like there's no racism in the UK or that Brits are somehow more civilised towards minorities. They've already succeeded.

Always relevant about moderates:

Can't be posted enough. Civil Rights era wasn't peaceful.

Nothing draws sympathy and support for your cause like making people miss their flight. This will probably have the opposite effect and just make people think BLMUK are fucking idiots.

People have been saying this for well over a year but seems to me BLM is getting more traction, so...

 

[Spring-Loaded]

It's not so much their methods but their message, using 'Black Lives Matter' instantly makes people associate with the movement in American and what it's centered around.

While we are no means perfect and racism is still a major issue our police aren't gunning down innocent black people day after day so most people will discount them and their message without a second thought because their associate the name with the American movement and problem.

It doesn't help that their facts and figures can be picked apart pretty quickly and found to be exaggerated to suit their message.

I also think a young black person in the UK has far more in common with a young white working class person in terms of inequality than they do with an American black person.

It's not an American problem. There are fewer guns in the UK, but issues related to racism toward black people exists in your countries. This protest is acknowledging that, and actually listening to what they have to say (or, at the very least, actually comprehending what the words "black lives matter" means in context, and how that isn't intrinsically tied to anything American) would be a good idea for you and anyone else who thinks is merely an American issue that doesn't apply here.

the same sentiment of saying racism and anti-blackness is a US problem and not a European/UK one is also expressed elsewhere and actually pretty common. Total biscuit usually says shit like this and I've seen Dutch posters here on GAF who thought racism and police profiling were nonexistent in the Netherlands

Im glad people are taking action. I hope other people join in or support

Yeah, over the past few months, the lack awareness from certain members has been eye-opening to say the least.

 

[BokehKing]

It's against anti-blackness and white supremacy. It's not just police brutality

I think people want to see ceasefire be as passionately supported as black lives matter in the mainstream.

 

[Fat4all]

Yes but BLM's mission is to put a stop to police brutality isn't it?

and police brutality does exist in the UK. Not quite to the extent of the US (the gold medal winners in that category), but still to an extent.

but that's besides the point, as it's not just about blacks being treated equal amongst the police force, but amongst everyone as a whole in the end.

It's a fight that will last a long time, and in numerous places.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's stunning to see the sentiment shared here — completely straight-faced — that this isn't an issue in the UK, or Germany, or just about anywhere else in the world. People have a really narrow idea of the problem elsewhere, and considering how often there are people like this:



who can't even fathom that these problems exist in their homeland, this protest is especially important.

A white guy I knew from Germany confided in me that he used to use the n-word back home on the regular, and blatantly out-grouped black people. Didn't even learn about co-existence and tolerance till he came to Canada. Yikes. He was pretty repentant, to his credit.

But yeah, though he might have been some kinda fringe ... Can't deny there's some underground racism there, as in most places.

 

[Bleepey]

I'm black and I can't take UK BLM seriously. It's nowhere near the same level as the US and honestly I think it's kinda insulting. I have no problem marching in solidarity but I can't take that shit seriously if someone argued it's anywhere near the same level. I get the feeling an African American would tell me to go fuck myself if I acted it's anywhere in the same level. For comparison in the UK:

www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/fatal-police-shootings

US comparison:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mljsp0013st.pdf
I can't be bothered to compare the per 100,000 people to raw numbers but from the few i looked at it ain't even close to the same level

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...un/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

1146 in the US last year. Sit your ass down, if you want to talk about disproportionate arrests despite drug use being less prevalent. Or harsher sentencing for the same crime. I can support it.But I can't take UK BLM too seriously IMO.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It's not an American problem. There are fewer guns in the UK, but issues related to racism toward black people exists in your countries. This protest is acknowledging that, and actually listening to what they have to say (or, at the very least, actually comprehending what the words "black lives matter" means in context, and how that isn't intrinsically tied to anything American) would be a good idea for you and anyone else who thinks is merely an American issue that doesn't apply here.

I don't think people can be faulted for thinking Black Lives Matters = against police violence towards black people. That has been the main thing surrounding it and what is getting in the news in Europe.

So when you have protests here under that banner and simply maybe a few shootings a year - most non-lethal -, then of course people are confused.

 

[Aaronology]

Honestly, why is it ok to disrupt people who had nothing to do with it?

Every citizen in a society that allows through apathy or passivity the continued existence of racial injustice and inequality has something to do with it. And for that injustice and inequality to persist in democracies is indicative of not enough people giving a shit. We can argue back and forth about the effectiveness of disruptive protests but I think the last year has shown the naysayers of BLM's tactics to be largely on the wrong side here. And I would know, as I was one of them.

 

[correojon]

I think using the Black Lives Matter slogan might have backfired on them. Most people, as seen in this topic, think that slogan is about police brutality against black people, so when seeing this protest they will ask themselves if this is a problem also in UK. Some of them might automatically discard it, others will investigate further to find it isn´t. Some of these will then discard the issue, while an even smaller fraction will push on to learn that the BLM slogan is being used to signifiy racism. Take into account the pissed people being directly affected by the protests, those might give 2 damns about the issue and will just get angry at the protesters without looking into the issue.

The message is expressed in a very clumsy way, this was not planned very well.

That said, all my suppor to their cause.

 

[Fat4all]

I know it can be easy to view BLM as "against American Police" or even "against police" in general, but that's just been because of circumstance mostly. There's been a lot to fight against in the USA when it comes to police and blacks.

But BLM is about the improvement of blacks in general, across all borders.