heliosRAzi
Banned
And he always have to have a Fosters in his hand.
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[SPOILER THREAD] Suicide Squad
- Thread starter George Oscar Bluth II
- Start date
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And he always have to have a Fosters in his hand.
JStein0222
Member
Okay, so the flick has some obvious flaws, but they didn't detract too much from what I thought was a pretty solid and visually distinctive flick.
I love the common language all the criminals speak in. There's a street-criminal verbiage that all the characters are fluent in. Makes them stand out in a cool way against the heroes we're used to. I thought that language was consistent with the pop/dirty grunge aesthetic.
Most of Harley's, Joker's, and Deadshot's scenes were gold. One shot early in the film, calls back to that Alex Ross painting of Joker and Harley. It looks so damn good. They impressed me with the care that was put into getting those moments right. I really support Leto's take on Joker and making him the wildly unstable, abusive boyfriend, which totally fits the street-crime vibes of the characters/movie. I also thought this take on Harley was effective because, as an audience member, I wondered where she stood on the line between crazy and in love. Her moments of clarity and flashbacks were great.
Now, the bad: While the flimakers clearly care about the characters, the plot was ill-conceived with one of the weakest third acts I've seen in a long time. It's exceptionally frustrating when a similar film, the animated Assault on Arkham, follows a similar structure but is better in MOST ways.
It seems obvious to me that you have to start this movie with Enchantress' origin story. Commit the time to her finding the totem and becoming the monster. Make us feel bad that they have to take her down and you can make the brother thing a little more supplemental or just toss it entirely. I didn't really care for Flagg, either. Maybe letting their love story emerge more naturally would yield better results.
Katana needed a moment earlier in the film to establish her usefulness. I didn't appreciate her backdoor origin story three quarters of the way into the movie. Similarly, I felt Boomerang was a throwaway. All-around, there needed to be some inter-squad play before just going out to save the world. Giving Boomerang the opportunity to butt heads with other members might have helped him out.
So yeah, while the plot was weak, the film succeeded in getting me intersted in these versions of the (main) characters. Joker has a couple of scenes that I would like to watch a few more times just to catalog the nuisance in his acting. I'm confused as to how Ayer could let the DIRECTION be so good, the script have some solid moments (laugh out loud), yet the three act structure is just a complete wreck.
Still thinking about it all, but those are my initial thoughts
I love the common language all the criminals speak in. There's a street-criminal verbiage that all the characters are fluent in. Makes them stand out in a cool way against the heroes we're used to. I thought that language was consistent with the pop/dirty grunge aesthetic.
Most of Harley's, Joker's, and Deadshot's scenes were gold. One shot early in the film, calls back to that Alex Ross painting of Joker and Harley. It looks so damn good. They impressed me with the care that was put into getting those moments right. I really support Leto's take on Joker and making him the wildly unstable, abusive boyfriend, which totally fits the street-crime vibes of the characters/movie. I also thought this take on Harley was effective because, as an audience member, I wondered where she stood on the line between crazy and in love. Her moments of clarity and flashbacks were great.
Now, the bad: While the flimakers clearly care about the characters, the plot was ill-conceived with one of the weakest third acts I've seen in a long time. It's exceptionally frustrating when a similar film, the animated Assault on Arkham, follows a similar structure but is better in MOST ways.
It seems obvious to me that you have to start this movie with Enchantress' origin story. Commit the time to her finding the totem and becoming the monster. Make us feel bad that they have to take her down and you can make the brother thing a little more supplemental or just toss it entirely. I didn't really care for Flagg, either. Maybe letting their love story emerge more naturally would yield better results.
Katana needed a moment earlier in the film to establish her usefulness. I didn't appreciate her backdoor origin story three quarters of the way into the movie. Similarly, I felt Boomerang was a throwaway. All-around, there needed to be some inter-squad play before just going out to save the world. Giving Boomerang the opportunity to butt heads with other members might have helped him out.
So yeah, while the plot was weak, the film succeeded in getting me intersted in these versions of the (main) characters. Joker has a couple of scenes that I would like to watch a few more times just to catalog the nuisance in his acting. I'm confused as to how Ayer could let the DIRECTION be so good, the script have some solid moments (laugh out loud), yet the three act structure is just a complete wreck.
Still thinking about it all, but those are my initial thoughts
BassForever
Member
Joker's subplot was completely pointless and could have been cut and not changed anything in the film, its not even like the disabled bomb comes into play I kept expecting encantress to threaten to blow up anyone who came close OR for HQ to walk away and Waller to be unable to do anything, instead they just forgot it was disarmed or Harley intentionally decided to go back to jail for no reason.
Also katana, boomerang, and croc were completely pointless and barely did anything in the movie. The idea that boomerang leaving and coming back for the final joke is completely laughable either its the worst written/shot/edited joke in film history or its the worst attempt by a dc fan to excuse another dccu mess since "no the martha twist is clever".
It is the best dccu film for what its worth, as low of a bar to climb as that is.
Also katana, boomerang, and croc were completely pointless and barely did anything in the movie. The idea that boomerang leaving and coming back for the final joke is completely laughable either its the worst written/shot/edited joke in film history or its the worst attempt by a dc fan to excuse another dccu mess since "no the martha twist is clever".
It is the best dccu film for what its worth, as low of a bar to climb as that is.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Your typo is my opinion. So disappointing
The growling...eww
vv(fucking)vv
They cut it out. Whats there to debate or argue? Its a lame thing to focus on.
Fucking
andythinkpad
Member
How is it a fucking lame complaint? It's a perfectly valid complaint. How about WB cut out that 1 second where he gets up and leaves the bar immediately so the it doesn't create a continuity error?
Of course, that requires WB watch the movie themselves after they cut it into pieces.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I'm not attempting to excuse anything except what I (and probably tons of people) took out of it, which isn't much. "Dude came back like a boomerang" isn't a cardinal sin worthy of fake-ignorance (but whyyyyy did he come back? I simply must know!) or even cinematic outrage (worst edited joke in the history of jokes, also worst joke that broke a character). But, opinions and all, so have at it if you like.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Slipknot is more important in this movie than the Joker is.
I'd put this below BvS only because BvS has the warehouse scene in it. Suicide Squad doesn't have awesome action scenes.
Oh, it's this.
neurosisxeno
Member
I think the plot suffers from having no clearly defined event that leads to this entire story and the necessity of Suicide Squad. They keep claiming they are needed to defend people from Metahumans, but it's entirely because they assembled the team (and screwed with Enchantress) that everything in Midway City even happened. Rather than have random scenes that show Harley Quinn and Deadshot in prison before hey are properly introduced, why not use that time to have a 5 minute scene showing a terrorist attack by a Metahuman and then introduce Waller and have her use that as a justification for assembling the Suicide Squad in the wake of Superman's death.
Plus, they basically established that Flash is already active and Argus knows about him, as well as that Batman is still active. Where the hell were they? On top of that, some of the characters for the actual Squad really don't make sense. Does Harley Quinn really have any reason for being there? She's just a crazy murderer who was close to The Joker. Margot Robbie did great but the movie made no real effort to explain why she was important. Deadshot, Diablo, Killer Croc, and Katana all make sense, and Rick Flagg to be their leader also makes sense. Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, and Slipknot are just thrown in there.
Plus, they basically established that Flash is already active and Argus knows about him, as well as that Batman is still active. Where the hell were they? On top of that, some of the characters for the actual Squad really don't make sense. Does Harley Quinn really have any reason for being there? She's just a crazy murderer who was close to The Joker. Margot Robbie did great but the movie made no real effort to explain why she was important. Deadshot, Diablo, Killer Croc, and Katana all make sense, and Rick Flagg to be their leader also makes sense. Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, and Slipknot are just thrown in there.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Harley's bomb was armed again. You can see it on the screen. They never explain how it got armed again though.
It's an especially dumb oversight considering she gets broken out of jail one scene later.
The Martha thing isn't a twist! It's the basis for a character turning point.
(and it was good dammit)
Spring-Loaded
Member
but that's what boomerangs do
dont bring Prince into Leto's gathering of the juggalos trash. let the man rest.
Really feels like it could have used Assault on Arkham's structure. In that the squad is gathered to go after the Riddler in Arkham for something I forget, and eventually lands tangled up with the Joker who provides the bigger threat, though the Riddler does end up playing a part for most of the story too.
This time, switch the Joker with the Riddler. Have the squad formed to go after the Joker for something, which would explain why the'd bother with Harley, as she could either be used to quickly get close or at least be used under the assumption he wouldn't kill her. This gives them a reason for existing that makes more sense, especially given that most of the team aren't metas. End this mission around act 1, have Enchantress go rogue, rest of the movie is them playing catch up with the occasional interference from Joker. This would mean they all have at least one moment to bond over, give that hokey "family" stuff some build up, and even could know Enchantress a little bit to give having to fight her some weight.
I mean, that's really what a lot of Suicide Squad stories are. Gather for a more minor story / threat, something goes wrong, second story becomes the focal point with either higher stakes in general or at least higher personal ones.
This time, switch the Joker with the Riddler. Have the squad formed to go after the Joker for something, which would explain why the'd bother with Harley, as she could either be used to quickly get close or at least be used under the assumption he wouldn't kill her. This gives them a reason for existing that makes more sense, especially given that most of the team aren't metas. End this mission around act 1, have Enchantress go rogue, rest of the movie is them playing catch up with the occasional interference from Joker. This would mean they all have at least one moment to bond over, give that hokey "family" stuff some build up, and even could know Enchantress a little bit to give having to fight her some weight.
I mean, that's really what a lot of Suicide Squad stories are. Gather for a more minor story / threat, something goes wrong, second story becomes the focal point with either higher stakes in general or at least higher personal ones.
You're kidding, right? This is a a fantasy universe you've constructed, and not only that, it's a fantasy universe built around a dumb joke executed in such a way that nobody will ever understand or get it while watching the movie.
Boomerang came back because the movie is terribly written. They wrote the joke about him running away because it was somewhat funny and just didn't bother to explain why he is still in the rest of the movie, just like the million other things in the movie that they didn't bother to explain because the script is a piece of shit.
heliosRAzi
Banned
No, no, you're wrong. Boomerang came back because he's a boomerang. Katana drank with the bad guys because she loves bad guys. They're just a big family now.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Sure, whatever you say.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I really doubt the main intention of boomerang returning is suppose to be a reference to his name. The SS movie crew cant be that stupid. Its really just a joke on him being that sly one that wants to escape throughout the movie. But they couldnt find an explanation to insert him back for the climax, so they just forgo the explanation
whatsinaname
Member
So did I not see things clearly or does Harley immediately look at her neck in the mirror during the Boomerang cutting out scene? Wasn't her implant disabled already by that point?
What did he mean by this?
Member
Yall trying too hard to make a meme
Anyways, the single biggest stupidest scene in the movie isssss....
Harleys dream sequence. Showing untransformed Joker so uneventfully and undeservedly is so glaring and CHEAP! First they cut out most his scenes, then pull the magic away from his appearance by showing normal ass Jared Leto! Wow! Heath maintained the mystery, Nicolson had an origin story, but they left Leto out to dry!
No one was on set to say "Holy shit what the hell are you doing? Put them in back in costume! Give that baby green hair and a knife right now!!". Geoff Johns (or anyone that watched a single episode of BTAS) where were you? Also, screw the instantaneous muddying of Harleys motivation by making her want to change the Joker and herself back to normal. Like, how are you working towards that at all?
Anyways, the single biggest stupidest scene in the movie isssss....
Harleys dream sequence. Showing untransformed Joker so uneventfully and undeservedly is so glaring and CHEAP! First they cut out most his scenes, then pull the magic away from his appearance by showing normal ass Jared Leto! Wow! Heath maintained the mystery, Nicolson had an origin story, but they left Leto out to dry!
No one was on set to say "Holy shit what the hell are you doing? Put them in back in costume! Give that baby green hair and a knife right now!!". Geoff Johns (or anyone that watched a single episode of BTAS) where were you? Also, screw the instantaneous muddying of Harleys motivation by making her want to change the Joker and herself back to normal. Like, how are you working towards that at all?
I think the opening 30 or so minutes is where you most feel the presence of WB in the editing room. All the licensed music and weird neon flash graphics definitely didn't feel like they came from Ayer.
I'd be interested to know what was cut and changed from what Ayer intended. There was a lot in the movie that I felt could have been great if it went deeper. I don't know how much of that is Ayer not having a plan for it, or WB dicking around with the movie. Like, to go with the current topic, I feel like there could be a good explanation for Capt. Boomerang coming back. But idk if Ayer just didn't write it, or if WB cut it. Either way, it's a shame.
I'd be interested to know what was cut and changed from what Ayer intended. There was a lot in the movie that I felt could have been great if it went deeper. I don't know how much of that is Ayer not having a plan for it, or WB dicking around with the movie. Like, to go with the current topic, I feel like there could be a good explanation for Capt. Boomerang coming back. But idk if Ayer just didn't write it, or if WB cut it. Either way, it's a shame.
andythinkpad
Member
One more question, early in the movie a guy in a cosina was taken to see Joker? Who is he and does he come back to the movie? Is he the rope guy?
That's the guard that was poking fun of Deadshot, hitting on Harley, etc.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I don't think the Joker would be a good member for the Suicide Squad
BFIB
Member
I know people are not happy with the screen time we got with Joker. I personally like that Leto took a different approach. Not creepy, but maniacal.
Also, isn't the standalone Batman supposed to lift heavily from Assault on Arkham? We're gonna get a lot of Joker then. This was a smart choice to bring this version into the universe now.
Also, isn't the standalone Batman supposed to lift heavily from Assault on Arkham? We're gonna get a lot of Joker then. This was a smart choice to bring this version into the universe now.
I kept forgetting Katana was in the movie, then remembering, then wondering why she was in the movie. The non-flashback Joker bits felt unnecessary and out of place. The battles against the b-tier Silent Hill enemies were dull as all get out, Enchantress was pretty damn terrible. El Diablo was alright.
I can't tell if I like Leto as Joker yet, all I got from this movie was he's a bit growl-y.
I can't tell if I like Leto as Joker yet, all I got from this movie was he's a bit growl-y.
Killer Queen
Banned
Hasn't he been on the squad in the comics?
I thought they were going to be to attempting to track him down instead of a 5000 year old witch.
Nope. The Joker is generally the last person people call to be on any kind of team.
Killer Queen
Banned
Yeah I also thought that would be the case which would've made for a better movie.
ThePackman
Member
I hated this especially when they come out of the dreams and Deadshot says he killed the bat and she says "I want that" . Getting Joker and Harley wrong is bad enough but their relationship too. There is a point where it stops being an interpretation and just starts being new characters.
Kibbles
Member
He does alright in pure-villainy teams, he has plot-sword for batman's plot-armor.
Plus he can help remove members that writers want to kill off without needing to explain much.
Shadow_Lord
Member
One thing I didn't understand was why were the Squad angry with Flagg after learning the "truth"? What even was the truth? I thought they already knew that Enchantress was behind all this.
How so?
ThePackman
Member
Same here and why did Kitana seem upset about it too?
She's Harley because he's the Joker. If he one day decided to retire the clown stuff you bet Harley would too. She's just a girl in love, not a clown at heart.
Weren't they going to get blamed for what was essentially Waller's mess?
Probably thought she was on a more straight-forward "fight evil" mission and not "please clean up our mess that caused a shit ton of death."
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Just want to check.
Waller's comment about Bruce "working nights" is a nod to her comic book and animated series counterpart knowing Bruce is Batman correct?
Waller's comment about Bruce "working nights" is a nod to her comic book and animated series counterpart knowing Bruce is Batman correct?
What did he mean by this?
Member
So she loves the man under the makeup she's never met? Or does she love the damn Joker?
I've always assumed she loves the man, not the Joker. Well, the man is the Joker, but her clown persona is just a response to his clown persona.
neurosisxeno
Member
That was always going to be the case. Waller outright says at the Pentagon that they would have full deniability if things went sideways.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I don't know much about the whole Joker/Harley relationship, but that dream of hers seemed OOC. Harley didn't have any kind of desire to be normal.
It's just implying this version knows it.
Incendiary
Banned
I enjoyed the movie a lot. Definitely more enjoyable than BvS. Not a top tier movie, but I'll still buy it on Blu-Ray when it comes out and watch it again every now and then.
Two things that were not great - Leto's 1940's gangster Joker being completely extraneous and unnecessary to the plot. And having Enchantress move like a glitchy video game stripper. What the fuck was up with that?
No, they were told there were terrorists and only that they were rescuing an important person (Waller). They didn't know about Enchantress (and the fact that the government had been controlling/using her and this was entirely their fuck-up) until Deadshot found the top secret stuff.
Two things that were not great - Leto's 1940's gangster Joker being completely extraneous and unnecessary to the plot. And having Enchantress move like a glitchy video game stripper. What the fuck was up with that?
No, they were told there were terrorists and only that they were rescuing an important person (Waller). They didn't know about Enchantress (and the fact that the government had been controlling/using her and this was entirely their fuck-up) until Deadshot found the top secret stuff.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Just watched it and I kind of enjoyed it but mostly because of the character interactions. The movie's editing is a mess and really brings it down. Though the action is pretty competent, it lacks any real standout moments or set pieces. I liked what Leto was doing with the Joker, but I don't think the script allows you to really get a grip on him or how this version thinks.
This is one of the bigger fundamental flaws with it. The villain is too high stakes. You're left wondering why no heroes showed up to this event that's apparently been going on for 3 days. The villain itself is too powerful for this group (minus Diablo) to really take on without having to suspend a lot of disbelief (it's the only reason Enchantress does the sword fight which is pointless). Something a little more low stakes like the Assault on Arkham plot would have been a way more appropriate use of the team on the action front at least. Plus it would have been a more interesting plot than the usual "Gotta stop the world ending light in the sky".
This is one of the bigger fundamental flaws with it. The villain is too high stakes. You're left wondering why no heroes showed up to this event that's apparently been going on for 3 days. The villain itself is too powerful for this group (minus Diablo) to really take on without having to suspend a lot of disbelief (it's the only reason Enchantress does the sword fight which is pointless). Something a little more low stakes like the Assault on Arkham plot would have been a way more appropriate use of the team on the action front at least. Plus it would have been a more interesting plot than the usual "Gotta stop the world ending light in the sky".
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