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[gerg]

I was with you until the last paragraph. Globalization has reduced wealth inequality on global scale, even if it has exacerbated on rich countries. It has taken millions out of poverty, and increased cooperation of nations and citizens. And it also goes against your second paragraph. It makes no sense to stop globalization, even more if you take into account the imminent automation of many jobs.

I'm not saying that globalization has not created problems, mostly for people who were left out, but we're better trying to fix those problems instead of trying to stop progress.

Regarding the bolded, I think there is a difference between internationalism, which ultimately seeks to reduce the nation state, and globalisation, which is dependent upon it.

Certainly, globalisation has done a lot to increase to wealth on a global scale - even if life (or death, as it too often is) in an Indian garment factory isn't perfect, it does (ideally) give those working there a chance to accrue a material wealth they would not necessarily have and escape the poverty they might otherwise face.

However, the wealth inequality between India and the UK isn't a bug, but a feature, of globalisation. After all, the process by which it can be economical to provide those jobs to India (and so aid the poor there) is dependent upon it being cheaper to do so than other countries; as soon as that difference is reduced, why continue investing in any particular location over another? At that point, it would make more sense to return to a more localised model of production, given that the profit made from reduced labour costs would no longer outweigh the extra money spent on transportation.

As such, I am pessimistic that globalisation will ever be able to fix the "problem" of wealth inequality, because it is that inequality that enables it to function.

Racism really makes people vote against their own self-interests (see Brexit as another example of this)

I think the Brexit vote is a complicated example that really underscore the differences between the "winners" and "losers" of globalisation. Certainly, it would not be a good thing if the UK economy were to crash in a turn of events that saw it lose access to the common market and so a flight of its service-based industries to other, EU-based countries; on the other hand, I do not think it would necessarily be such a bad thing if those events precedented a recognition of the "service-based" economy as a myth and a reconstructing of the UK's manufacturing sector.

 

[mnz]

Only 35% of them were Syrians:

You're right, my mistake.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Don't worry, as capitalism inevitably collapses as resources dry up, and people even struggle to get clean drinking water, the far-right of today will seem both civil and welcoming in comparison.

.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-turning-away-and-deporting-more-migrants/a-19461521

Seems like Europe just needs to enforce its existing laws more effectively, rather than scramble elsewhere for solutions. Rejected applicants should be swiftly sent back home, but in a humane way. We shouldn't go full Australia and essentially endorse the rape and torture of migrants. I have no problem with paying for people who are in genuine need and aren't assholes.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

I was with you until the last paragraph. Globalization has reduced wealth inequality on global scale, even if it has exacerbated on rich countries. It has taken millions out of poverty, and increased cooperation of nations and citizens. And it also goes against your second paragraph. It makes no sense to stop globalization, even more if you take into account the imminent automation of many jobs.

I'm not saying that globalization has not created problems, mostly for people who were left out, but we're better trying to fix those problems instead of trying to stop progress.

Wealth redistribution in the developed world will never happen as long as globalization is still going.
Governments cannot redestribute wealth when most of it flows overseas.

 

[Jacobi]

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-turning-away-and-deporting-more-migrants/a-19461521

Seems like Europe just needs to enforce its existing laws more effectively, rather than scramble elsewhere for solutions. Rejected applicants should be swiftly sent back home, but in a humane way. We shouldn't go full Australia and essentially endorse the rape and torture of migrants.

Percentages aren't saying much. This says we deported 13k of migrants this year (which is already deemed inhumane). But 336k of migrants already came in this year.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Percentages aren't saying much. This says we deported 13k of migrants this year (which is already deemed inhumane). But 336k of migrants already came in this year.

It shows governments are hearing and listening to the concerns though and are tightening the process up somewhat.

 

[Good Job Bob]

The first thing to do is to immediately start bashing everyone to the left of you politically.

 

[mnz]

Percentages aren't saying much. This says we deported 13k of migrants this year (which is already deemed inhumane). But 336k of migrants already came in this year.

What's often misunderstood as well is that deportation is basically the last straw. The majority leaves without the need for it.

 

[Jacobi]

What's often misunderstood as well is that deportation is basically the last straw. The majority leaves without the need for it.

If you leave voluntarily, you get a couple thousands, so that's not too bad either.
But the numbers of people leaving like this, aren't too high either...

"The figures show that some 3,322 Iraqis and 2,305 Afghans left the country voluntarily with government support."

 

[mnz]

I don't think that's the same thing. I'm talking about rejected asylum seekers. You usually don't get anything, not sure what your stat refers to. Deportations are also done by the states in Germany, so there's a lot of variation between methods.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

If you really want to stop economic migrants wanting a better life, their own countries should be made better places to live. The future migrant crisis caused by global warming will make a million refugees seem like nothing. In some ways it is understandable, I think, to want to come to the West and live there. Education isn't really common in poor countries so they have no hope of coming to Europe legally with a work permit.

 

[quackamole]

Your outrage isn't going to indefinitely fund social services, or fix the disaster of Muslim integration into Western Europe, or keep people safe from ISIS groups deliberately hiding among refugees.

The left has lost in Western Europe because their solution to all of these problems is "shut up and deal with it". And the people responded, "No."

Good point. I seem to recall the French president basically telling people something like "This is how you are going to live and deal with from now on." after the Nice attack. No shit people aren't going to like it.

 

[Lucumo]

Only 35% of them were Syrians:

Good thing this was already mentioned (no idea where OP got his "war refugees" from - I guess he isn't from Europe or he should know better). Apart from that, there is not an unsubstantial number claiming they are from Syria while in reality they are from somewhere else.

 

[JimmyRustler]

How is anyone actually surprised by this? I've seen this coming a long, long time ago and I guarantee you the movement to the right would have happened regardless of the refugee crisis and ISIS - these thing just accelerated it. The problem with difficult integration of Muslims into Western culture has always been there and it was bound to get hairy sooner or later as Muslim communities are flourishing while the classic white Western European community is stagnating or even dimishing (if polls are to be believed). I've litereally seen whole neighbourhoods in my hometown slowly turning Muslim only in the past decade or two. A friends girlfriend works as teacher and speaks of difficult to teach classes because there are sometine up 70% Muslim children of the entire class. Did anyone actually not expect this to cause a clash sooner or later?

This whole thing is only to get a lot uglier in the coming decade and the only ones to blame are the goodwill leftists who made you look like a racists if you even questioned there might be a problem and, of course, the media.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Not like Afghanistan and Iraq are safe places. Eritrea is also known as the North Korea of Africa or something so those groups still have plenty of justification for asylum.

 

[faridmon]

This is terrible, I am truly sorry. If it makes you feel any better I'd be happy to host you and any other Muslim that wants to visit my neck of the world. I know a lot of other people feel the same way, so try not to forget that and lose hope. We're stronger together and that will never change.

Awww, man thanks, really appreciate the sentiment

People like you, and to be fair the general public are like that as well, is what makes me more optimistic about my daily life.

 

[Lime]

I appreciate the candid replies, but it's weird that the thread was meant to discuss how people have turned to the far right but instead it's turned into refugees and immigrants from the Middle East and what to do about them and what's wrong with them, and finally even the "West vs Islam" false dichotomy. I understand the connection and my OP mentions it, but it just seems weird that it turned into defending immigrants and refugees instead of addressing the rise of far right and anti-humanistic ideology.

Also, I think we need to talk about the "the Left is to blame! The Left made me a racist and forced me to vote for a racist, fascist party!!", but that's for another thread.

 

[Linkyn]

You're not alone. The thing is, part of me feels like it might be good for them to win a few elections, just so people can see that there's no substance there, only empty promises and anger.

Edit: Though the other part tends to be a bit judgemental of countries with stronger nationalistic movements. We Europeans should know how dangerous populism of any kind is.

 

[Calm waterfall]

I appreciate the candid replies, but it's weird that the thread was meant to discuss how people have turned to the far right but instead it's turned into refugees and immigrants from the Middle East and what to do about them and what's wrong with them, and finally even the "West vs Islam" false dichotomy. I understand the connection and my OP mentions it, but it just seems weird that it turned into defending immigrants and refugees instead of addressing the rise of far right and anti-humanistic ideology.

Also, I think we need to talk about the "the Left is to blame! The Left made me a racist and forced me to vote for a racist, fascist party!!", but that's for another thread.

Because there is a connection between people become more far right and immigration from the ME.

 

[gerg]

I appreciate the candid replies, but it's weird that the thread was meant to discuss how people have turned to the far right but instead it's turned into refugees and immigrants from the Middle East and what to do about them and what's wrong with them, and finally even the "West vs Islam" false dichotomy. I understand the connection and my OP mentions it, but it just seems weird that it turned into defending immigrants and refugees instead of addressing the rise of far right and anti-humanistic ideology.

I don't think you can have a discussion about the rise of the far-right without a discussion of migration pressures.

Also, I think we need to talk about the "the Left is to blame! The Left made me a racist and forced me to vote for a racist, fascist party!!", but that's for another thread.

It is precisely the left's failure to advocate an alternative for current mainstream economics that enables the rise of the right, however. You see this in the UK, where the implementation of neoliberalism under New Labour, and a subsequent lack of articulation of alternative policy under Milliband and Corbyn, has reduced Labour's foothold in its historic heartlands. In the US, Clinton is lucky that her competitor has decided to be so outrageous that she is looking increasingly certain to win election, despite the fervour for Bernie's more leftwing politics against her establishment credentials. (Relatedly, the strength of support for Trump as it is rests on similar anti-establishement sentiment.)

 

[petran79]

How is anyone actually surprised by this? I've seen this coming a long, long time ago and I guarantee you the movement to the right would have happened regardless of the refugee crisis and ISIS - these thing just accelerated it. The problem with difficult integration of Muslims into Western culture has always been there and it was bound to get hairy sooner or later as Muslim communities are flourishing while the classic white Western European community is stagnating or even dimishing (if polls are to be believed). I've litereally seen whole neighbourhoods in my hometown slowly turning Muslim only in the past decade or two. A friends girlfriend works as teacher and speaks of difficult to teach classes because there are sometine up 70% Muslim children of the entire class. Did anyone actually not expect this to cause a clash sooner or later?

This whole thing is only to get a lot uglier in the coming decade and the only ones to blame are the goodwill leftists who made you look like a racists if you even questioned there might be a problem and, of course, the media.

The problem is not that they are Muslim but rather that they are not European.
Albanians and people from Bosnia-Herzegovina have a significant amount of Muslims.
Excluding some difficulties in the early 90s that Albanians faced with immigration, racism
and discrimination, most have managed to integrate in the countries they emigrated to. Because they lived in a secular state that mostly persecuted religion.

Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and nearby countries are also secular. Problem stems from the countries that failed to impose secularism.

The collapse of socialist states and the Yugoslavian war marked the first wave of mass immigration to Europe after WWII.
Now the war in the Middle East marks the second wave. It is fortunate that Egypt did not go into civil war. It was on the brink, had the military not intervened.

 

[gutter_trash]

lots of Putin money flowing to many of these extremist parties

Putin's end goal is to weaken the EU and NATO

but these dumb Far-Right nationalists in Western Europe are too blind and dense to see that they are being played by Russia

 

[King Tubby]

The left needs to take issues of job loss to automation/globalization, national security, and immigration/assimilation more seriously. They also need to listen and respond in some way to concerns of people who are marginalized or not so educated in these matters in a way that actually is listening rather than condescending. Otherwise more jobs will continue to be lost, more attacks will continue to happen, and the general populace will drift further and further into the arms of the right-wing who they believe will provide the security that the left can't or won't.

I appreciate the candid replies, but it's weird that the thread was meant to discuss how people have turned to the far right but instead it's turned into refugees and immigrants from the Middle East and what to do about them and what's wrong with them, and finally even the "West vs Islam" false dichotomy. I understand the connection and my OP mentions it, but it just seems weird that it turned into defending immigrants and refugees instead of addressing the rise of far right and anti-humanistic ideology.

These questions are almost inextricable from each other. It'd be almost like discussing the American Civil War without talking about slavery.

 

[bionic77]

I feel like the trend towards the right goes even beyond Europe and the US. Didn't the Philippines just elect a crazy right wing president?

This seems to be a worldwide trend. I do not really understand why people are moving towards facism again.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I'm worried about the far-left as much as the far-right. They're very aggressive here in Europe, causing loads of trouble, even killing people. Both being socialistic movements, they're very dangerous. Communism or nazism, same shit.

Also: before both World War's the far-left and far-right got huge following and divided people. It's happening now and history tends to repeat itself. Just an observation.

 

[typist]

It worries me too. The solution is to vote for moderates and educate other people on why it's better to vote for moderates. Donate to your preferred political party, subscribe to your preferred YouTube channels and like and share their videos. Argue for your position in debates online, even if you don't convince your opponent you may very well persuade onlookers that your perspective is the correct one.

Convincing an extreme right-winger that their positions are flawed can be rather difficult, they often fail to acknowledge or understand the logical contradictions in their positions. In my experience the Socratic method of asking armour piercing questions seems to work best, cast some doubt onto flawed positions and they won't be able to spread their idealogy as successfully.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

I'm worried about the far-left as much as the far-right. They're very aggressive here in Europe, causing loads of trouble, even killing people. Both being socialistic movements, they're very dangerous. Communism or nazism, same shit.

Also: before both World War's the far-left and far-right got huge following and divided people. It's happening now and history tends to repeat itself. Just an observation.

I remember you posting in an older thread about the far right, where you revealed that you're from Finland. As I'm from Finland too, I shall ask: where in this country is there violence from the far left? I've only heard of a Swedish violent far left group (Revolutionary Front), but no Finnish ones.

Meanwhile, Soldiers of Odin has a bad track record so far as its founder has been charged for assault once and another time three of its members beat up two men. The victims weren't immigrants but it doesn't make the crime any less violent. SoO is connected to SVL ("Finnish Resistance") which was behind the stabbing of a professor. I have heard of nothing like this from the "far left".

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Maybe we're now too far removed from the horrors of WW1 & WW2. The memories of how nationalism and hatred cost millions of lives now too distant.

Which is a shame. And terrifying.

Far removed? The majority of the idiots who voted Brexit are of the age that they either took part in WW2 or are the children of people who served in it.
They should know better.

 

[Audioboxer]

No thanks, gun laws, mass consumption, pollution, no healthcare, slave-like working conditions, corporate plutonomy, imperialistic foreign policies, drone strikes, prison industrial complex, CO2 emissions, highest military budget in the world, white supremacy, low social mobility, hating the poor, acceptance of torture, boot straps rhetoric, NSA surveillance, death penalty, supporting Israel, militarized police force, denial of man-made global warming, Christian nutjobs, for-profit education, all make me not want to move to the US.

Bit of a drive by from me but I just wanted to say Lime, holy shit, lol. Well played.

I mean I live in the UK, so, fuck my country right now, but the above is just savage.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I remember you posting in an older thread about the far right, where you revealed that you're from Finland. As I'm from Finland too, I shall ask: where in this country is there violence from the far left? I've only heard of a Swedish violent far left group (Revolutionary Front), but no Finnish ones.

In Sweden some AFA people stabbed an immigrant to death. In Germany they are basically going full fascism and attacking everyone who even remotely looks like a "nazi". Also ANTIFA is threatening music venues if they let som ebands to play who they think have some kind of far-right contact (it can be that the band uses runes in their artwork). Just yesterday far-left in Kallio, Finland attacked police who were trying to stop an illegal rap concert which was causing disturbance in the area. And so forth and so forth. Most of the violence in demonstrations in Finland have been caused by these AFA/anarchist types. They're scum just like far-right.

Meanwhile, Soldiers of Odin has a bad track record so far as its founder has been charged for assault once and another time three of its members beat up two men. The victims weren't immigrants but it doesn't make the crime any less violent. SoO is connected to SVL ("Finnish Resistance") which was behind the stabbing of a professor. I have heard of nothing like this from the "far left".

SoO is scum just like far-left. This is what I was talking about: far-right and far-left will divide countries, just like before both World Wars.

Both are harmful, both follow socialism. Puppets of the oligarchs. Idiots.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

people have legitimate concerns, the goverments burying their heads in the sand have pushed the voters to the right.

 

[norinrad]

This fact beings me a lot of comfort. In a few decades, a very large portion of the far-right supporters won't be around anymore which will hopefully give progressives an incredible opportunity. Now we just hope that the far-right doesn't do too much to harm social rights in the meantime.

The damage would have already been done by the time they are gone. Don't forget how certain policies literally destroys communities for decades.

 

[Liha]

people have legitimate concerns, the goverments burying their heads in the sand have pushed the voters to the right.

I think some of you should watch that video from last September, four policemen who tried to stop around 350 refugees at the Austrian/Slovenian border and were pushed aside by these "refugees". That was the day in Austria, which ended our "Willkommenskultur".

 

[Jacobi]

The damage would have already been done by the time they are gone. Don't forget how certain policies literally destroys communities for decades.

Are you talking about left policies or far right policies?

 

[AlphaDump]

it is scary. what can we do? acknowledge that facts should be facts, and that logic needs to be sensical and scalable outside of your head. I am sick and tired of letting the wolf in the hens house because we all got to play by the rules. Even shit like The Young Turks is toxic and dangerous to the political discourse. It should be banned as a valid news source. Bu-bu-censorship! It's amazing how our own purity tests have been used to cannibalize our need to a real discussion.

I've been watching it slowly take over gaf, too. It's infuriating because they use our social accomodations against us. Everyone is too fucking polite, and we can't call it for what it is. We get banned, they will always come back. Some of this shit is even foreign state run, and much more orchestrated than imagined.

Anyone against Hillary at this point is my enemy, and i really dont give a shit anymore.

 

[Man God]

I appreciate the candid replies, but it's weird that the thread was meant to discuss how people have turned to the far right but instead it's turned into refugees and immigrants from the Middle East and what to do about them and what's wrong with them, and finally even the "West vs Islam" false dichotomy. I understand the connection and my OP mentions it, but it just seems weird that it turned into defending immigrants and refugees instead of addressing the rise of far right and anti-humanistic ideology.

Also, I think we need to talk about the "the Left is to blame! The Left made me a racist and forced me to vote for a racist, fascist party!!", but that's for another thread.

It comes down to one simple, very powerful argument.

If you tell someone who is stuck economically that someone else is getting "a free ride" they almost always get rowdy. It pretty much always works. People don't care about the larger picture.

 

[Jisgsaw]

You're not alone. The thing is, part of me feels like it might be good for them to win a few elections, just so people can see that there's no substance there, only empty promises and anger..

That wouldn't work.
In France, several cities/circonscriptions where the FN won the elections are left in some serious financial troubles; FN MEP do absolutely nothing in the EU. I don't think that cost the FN a single vote.

Though to be fair, France has a serious problem ion the absence of any politician worth anything. We had to choose between Hollande and Sarkozy last time, it won't be much better this time...

 

[Saucycarpdog]

No thanks, gun laws, mass consumption, pollution, no healthcare, slave-like working conditions, corporate plutonomy, imperialistic foreign policies, drone strikes, prison industrial complex, CO2 emissions, highest military budget in the world, white supremacy, low social mobility, hating the poor, acceptance of torture, boot straps rhetoric, NSA surveillance, death penalty, supporting Israel, militarized police force, denial of man-made global warming, Christian nutjobs, for-profit education, all make me not want to move to the US.

Don't forget about too many Air conditioners.

 

[freeofgreed]

Again, if your answer is "There is no refugee problem, get fucked", you're not going to win any elections that way.



There is less of a culture clash for migrants coming from other regions. There is factually more in common with say, a US, UK, or Canadian citizen moving to Germany than (for example), a person born and raised in Egypt or Syria. It is not racist to realize this. There are things that the West has grown accustomed to (women in all levels of education and employment, women in scant clothing, pre-marital sex, freedom of speech that includes blasphemy, apostasy) that some people are simply not prepared to deal with when they are transplanted thousands of miles away.



I blame the left for ignoring the evidence that the refugee situation was unsustainable (no safety net can exist in perpetuity fully funded, after all), and for trying to sweep instances of minorities abusing their status as a protected class under the rug for the sake of a false peace.

These things backfired, and they backfired hard.



I don't think you're going to win over any voters by telling them that Nice wasn't a big deal.

Then what is your solution to the refugee crisis? If it's too limit the amount of refugees who enter Europe then that is a pipe dream. Under international Law you cannot deny asylum to someone who seeks it once they step foot into your country, without the assurance that sending them back will absolutely not result in their deaths.

Also people really need to stop conflating refugees with economic migrants. Refugees come for political reasons and with the expectation that they'll go back once whatever crisis they face is over. Yes many refugees do eventually become migrants. But trying to conflate the two from the start is a dangerous game.

 

[Liha]

Then what is your solution to the refugee crisis? If it's too limit the amount of refugees who enter Europe then that is a pipe dream. Under international Law you cannot deny asylum to someone who seeks it once they step foot into your country, without the assurance that sending them back will absolutely not result in their deaths.

You can send them back to the first safe third country (Greece, Turkey, Italy) where they have entered Europe. No one will come to Europe for a life in Greece or Bulgaria.

 

[mnz]

You can send them back to the first safe third country (Greece, Turkey, Italy) where they have entered Europe. No one will come to Europe for a life in Greece or Bulgaria.

Great solidarity

 

[KurtSloane]

This is all the left's fault.

The left gave a huge opening to the far right by refusing to admit: unfettered immigration might actually cause problems, terrorists will enter Europe while posing as refugees, Europe's wealth isn't unlimited, integration will be difficult, etc. etc.

First thing the left should do is: stop digging and admit there is a problem.

I'll never understand why immigration is the hill the European left decided to die on.

Great post.

 

[Liha]

Great solidarity

Welcome to reality? 60% of all refugees are illegal immigrants and the political parties in Europe have 2 options:

1: sending them back to Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey
2: becoming irrelevant --> rise of the far-right

There are around 50.000 illegal immigrants from last year who are in my country right now and it's almost impossible to send them back to Afghanistan, Morocco and Algeria while the crime rate is increasing.

 

[Lime]

Because there is a connection between people become more far right and immigration from the ME.

I don't think you can have a discussion about the rise of the far-right without a discussion of migration pressures.

These questions are almost inextricable from each other. It'd be almost like discussing the American Civil War without talking about slavery.

Right, but the point I was making is that the conversation turns into a attack or a defense of immigrants and refugees from the Middle East (note: not from the US, Canada, Japan, etc.), when the conversation could focus on the reasons why people are turning into far-right parties. It's not like these people just automatically buy into racist, anti-humanitarian values just because brown immigrants and refugees are coming into the country, there is something more than that that's going on.

If you tell someone who is stuck economically that someone else is getting "a free ride" they almost always get rowdy. It pretty much always works. People don't care about the larger picture.

But no one is getting a free ride, at least not moreso than other people receiving welfare benefits. Then these same people would also be against welfare benefits for the disabled, for the unemployed, for the sick, etc.

Don't forget about too many Air conditioners.

That's under the "mass consumption" umbrella. If you were being snarky and still don't get why it's a sign of wealth, then try to read up on how other countries don't have the wealth and access to have air conditioners in their cars, their stores, their buildings, and their homes like so many US citizens have.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Funny how when it comes to the 'left', European members have a far different attitude than users from other countries. I didn't know leftists were in power post 2008

 

[Captain Tuttle]

These dumbasses need to pick up a textbook and draw some obvious parallels to the early 20th century and today.

They probably have and they think they've got all figured out THIS time. They'll kill all the dirty Jews but they won't invade Russia

 

[mnz]

They probably have and they think they've got all figured out THIS time. They'll kill all the dirty Jews but they won't invade Russia

The new far right is atleast very pro-Israel. This time it's muslims.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

This is all the left's fault.

The left gave a huge opening to the far right by refusing to admit: unfettered immigration might actually cause problems, terrorists will enter Europe while posing as refugees, Europe's wealth isn't unlimited, integration will be difficult, etc. etc.

First thing the left should do is: stop digging and admit there is a problem.

I'll never understand why immigration is the hill the European left decided to die on.

This post reminds me of a Sam Harris clip I recently listened to:

Sam Harris: How political correctness, religion, lying are complicit in the rise of Donald Trump

I'm not well-informed enough to take a stance on this yet, but he does seem to make some sense. I made a thread regarding Harris' views on Islam recently, and I'm trying to learn more before I reply to some of the comments.

 

[Replicant]

I mean, if you're going to enter another country, I don't think it's unfair to take up many local customs and act according to societal norms in that country.

It's a fact that women are often mistreated in Middle Eastern societies at this point - should that suddenly be allowed in European countries too?

Exactly. Gays are prosecuted in Islamic countries and some people from those countries still harbour the same belief. Unless they are willing to integrate to western way of life, I don't want them in my life. I moved to more a liberal country because I share the same belief as the people whose country I'm moving into. If you don't then why even move to that country and expect the people in it to change and accomodate you instead. Fuck that.