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[Greddleok]

To me it looks like the cops feel very awkward doing this.

Yup, every time I see an image of this, the police look like they would rather be doing literally anything else.

Such a waste of time and money.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Man, this image really makes my blood boil. I don't know how any who claims they are progressive or cares about woman's rights can look at this and think this is ok. For 4 fucking police man, to harass a woman enjoying herself on a beach and force her to undress. This is absolutely disgusting.

Cops in France are by group in order to avoid having one gettig cornered and having to use their weapons.
France is also in state of Emergency following all the terror attack...

 

[JP_]

Let's assume the teenage girl was being radicalized. How does forcing her to remove her long skirt help unradicalize her...? Is it a magical skirt?

 

[Koren]

Let's assume the teenage girl was being radicalized. How does forcing her to remove her long skirt help unradicalize her...? Is it a magical skirt?

I feel this case is stupid, but the goal of such a ban will never be unradicalizing the people involved.

In this case, it's most probably:
- earning voters for the next elections
- avoid any bad publicity for a touristical town during the high season, because it's easier to ban people wearing muslim clothes than banning racists


In a nicer world, it could be to protect muslim people that decide not to wear the veil from the social pressure of a growing number of people around wearing it and looking at you for not doing the same (because it's a growing issue).


I'm concerned by the last situation, because beside racists, there's also a lot of moderate muslims suffering from muslims that stick to stronger rules and think every muslim should.

Maybe because it's not a muslim-only issue, there's plently of cases where I've been annoyed my critics of rigid catholics about the "rules". Most of the time, there's nothing of the like in public (mostly because of the kind of rules involved) and the number of rigid catholics is dwindling, though, not on the rise.

 

[Clay Davis]

Let's assume the teenage girl was being radicalized. How does forcing her to remove her long skirt help unradicalize her...? Is it a magical skirt?

Doesn't it feel like a power move? One side believes she is being forced to wear that garment and so they decide they will use their power to make those who are forcing her to wear it feel impotent.

Anyone wearing one is a bystander caught in a larger battle between a state that wants to pander to the masses who believe their culture is being eroded/believe she has no say in how she dresses and a group of people who either believe in modesty or want to retain some of their cultural roots, be it through clothing, books, food.

 

[Koren]

I think it's a far too black & white representation of the issue...

But...

or want to retain some of their cultural roots

for a 12-years old garment...

 

[Baki]

Cops in France are by group in order to avoid having one gettig cornered and having to use their weapons.
France is also in state of Emergency following all the terror attack...

From the terror of women being "overdressed" it seems.

I think it's a far too black & white representation of the issue...

But...

for a 12-years old garment...

It's a black and white issue. Any argument of this being a "grey" area is just people trying to mask their own xenophobia.

Any progressive society should enable citizens to freely chose how they want to dress.

If you aren't offering this basic freedom, then you are violating fundamental human rights here.

 

[freeofgreed]

Cops in France are by group in order to avoid having one gettig cornered and having to use their weapons.
France is also in state of Emergency following all the terror attack...

Which makes it even more weird that they'd waste 4 officers' time policing beachs to make sure woman show enough skin.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Which makes it even more weird that they'd waste 4 officers' time policing beachs to make sure woman show enough skin.

Well local politician still can decide what they are doing: putting fine to fill is common.
I think that there even was some scandal about quota to fill.

Obviously police should be doing more important thing but the security Theater is in full effect.

 

[freeofgreed]

Well local politician still can decide what they are doing: putting fine to fill is common.
I think that there even was some scandal about quota to fill.

Obviously police should be doing more important thing but the security Theater is in full effect.

As it should be, but not this way.

 

[The Doc]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Deceptive images. None is forcing this woman to remove her clothes.
The fucking habeas corpus still stands in france , indeed the measure imposes a 40$ fine.

 

[Llyranor]

True. They only held pepper spray, it wasn't even a gun. And no one was pinning her to the ground or choking her. Disgusting propaganda pictures.

 

[Reeks]

Deceptive images. None is forcing this woman to remove her clothes.
The fucking habeas corpus still stands in france , indeed the measure imposes a 40$ fine.

Here we go again..... How are these images deceptive?

 

[MistakenMobius]

As it should be, but not this way.

No security theater is a waste of money , plan vigil irate has been running for 15 years and stop like no real terrorist attack....
The US TSA is not really better.

 

[freeofgreed]

No security theater is a waste of money , plan vigil irate has been running for 15 years and stop like no real terrorist attack....
The US TSA is not really better.

And? Because the TSA is shit, that makes France being shit okay? And this is clearly a waste of time. If you think telling women to undress at the beach will help curb terrorist attacks in France than your'e not living in reality.

 

[MistakenMobius]

I just said that security theater was bullshit and was politician trying to appear useful.
I don't see where u see me validating these actions.

 

[freeofgreed]

I just said that security theater was bullshit and was politician trying to appear useful.
I don't see where u see me validating these actions.

Sorry your wording threw me off.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Does the burkini cover the burgina?

 

[The Doc]

Here we go again..... How are these images deceptive?

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

 

[sangreal]

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

"Do it or we will ticket you" sounds like force to me

 

[LuciusAxelrod]

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

What would they have had to do for it to be force for you? Pulled a weapon? Physically rip it off her?
Why do they need four officers to hand out a ticket?

 

[Jumeira]

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

LOL, read what you just said. Her moderate clothing was a crime! Where in the western world does this happen ?

 

[Lamel]

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

Let me ask you this, do you honestly think that dress is too radical or extreme?

 

[The Doc]

"Do it or we will ticket you" sounds like force to me

Nope. And this is a cornerstone in democracy.
Please notice the moderation of the punishment too, another fundamental acheivement of any civilized legal system (those which don't have death penalty e.g.)

Let me ask you this, do you honestly think that dress is too radical or extreme?

No , not that specific dress.

 

[Llyranor]

Because they make it seem like she was being forced to take off her dress.
If she had refused , the cops would have given her just a ticket.

The photos SEEM to paint the picture that she was forced? The pictures just are, they do not suggest anything. Maybe it's because you acknowledge the intimidation factor of having 4 cops present for a measly ticket?

But nope, she wasn't 'forced'. She wasn't forced off the beach either. She was only bullied by 4 cops who were cheered on by other beachgoers telling her to go home. She wasn't banned from the beach. If she feels unwelcome and doesn't return to the beach, that's 100% on her. At no point was there any gunpoint involved, so it was her conscious decision to comply with the intimidation tactics.

 

[Mael]

Une robe longue et noire n'est bien entendu par un motif d'exclusion et n'est pas interdite.»

For the story about the student expelled for her clothing.
The other side of the story says that "Of course the long black dress is NOT a reason to exclude and is not forbiddent"
The student was targetted because the mother raised an alert.

I completely agree with this - I'm just saying there is no need to distort or amplify the truth. It just adds to the old right wing canard that social issues are frequently distorted or made up.
The story is bad enough as it is.

We're 1 story away from someone getting tear gassed already, the difference between someone being threatened of being sprayed and actual spraying is not that big that it changes much for this discussion (although the difference is enormous for the individual).
We must hold the police force to high standards and this is shameful of them.
Right wing can say what they want they're more frequently distorting and literally inventing stuffs.
There's a reason Lepen is all about freedom to post whatever the hell you want on the internet.

I'm not sure what you are going on about. Did we grow up in the same country ? You should not have received *any* religious teaching in school. Are you from
Alsace or something ? If you mean catechism that has nothing to do with the government. If you mean history of religion then it's nothing like religious school.

And of course people should have a problem with both civitas and Averroes (if those allegations are true).

I am talking about private schools which are not under any kind of scrutiny unless it's something to do with Islam for some reason (or some of these usual cults).
On top of that, organization like Civitas are worse than Muslim brotherhood and far less compatible with the Republic's values but they're just catholics so who gives a shit.
My point is fuck St Eloi.

I dont think political presence is supposed to happen either but I could be wrong.

I would like to see someone pull that in a high school for the hilarious reactions of the students who couldn't give less of a shit if they tried.
No my issue is with the shit that goes on in Universities, elected students barely attending mandatory meetings, pushing for protests for personal gains...
And I'm not talking only about the PS's revolving door the UNEF, I mean pretty much everything about UNI.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Nope. And this is a cornerstone in democracy.
Please notice the moderation of the punishment too, another fundamental acheivement of any civilized legal system (those which don't have death penalty e.g.)



No , not that specific dress.

I am impressed how you spin this bigotry into a fundamental achievement of western culture and society, well done.

Moderation of punishment...while laying on a beach...not naked enough. Oh my.

 

[RustyNails]

Nope. And this is a cornerstone in democracy.
Please notice the moderation of the punishment too, another fundamental acheivement of any civilized legal system (those which don't have death penalty e.g.)

Lol, you do not sound like a colonialist right now. Nope, not at all. Our CIVILIZED system does not yield to barbaric savages and their clothes while laying on a beach!

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

 

[Gutek]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Angelus Errare]

So they're forcing women to take their clothes off…and they don't see the issue with that? Wow

 

[Camp Freddie]

Nope. And this is a cornerstone in democracy.
Please notice the moderation of the punishment too, another fundamental acheivement of any civilized legal system (those which don't have death penalty e.g.)

To (mis)quote Anatole France:

La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit le chrétien comme le musulman de porter de longues robes et foulards à la plage.

 

[Skii]

Don't be so disingenuous. This is not about fashion, but people being scared of Muslims and the bombs they hide under their clothing.

How is a comment allowed like this on Gaf? Fucking hell. This statement is literally calling all muslims terrorists and yet it somehow provides constructive discussion on the topic?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

 

[The Doc]

To (mis)quote Anatole France:

La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit le chrétien comme le musulman de porter de longues robes et foulards à la plage.

i'm totally ok with extending the ban to the nuns' coverings too.
They certainly aren't less misogynistic than the hijab.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

How is a comment allowed like this on Gaf? Fucking hell. This statement is literally calling all muslims terrorists and yet it somehow provides constructive discussion on the topic?

I don't even know what to say anymore.

There were several like those on the thread, i think the off-section is not very moderated.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

i'm totally ok with extending the ban to the nuns' coverings too.
They certainly aren't less misogynistic than the hijab.

So we should ban what everybody, but the women wearing it, consider misogynistic ? Or just you ?

 

[Mael]

So we should ban what everybody, but the women wearing it, misogynistic ? Or just you ?

Clothes of any kind to be banned from beaches.
After all we all know that people are forced to wear clothes anyway.
I mean the bible clearly says that covering nudity is because of some apple shit or something so clothes are religious garments by default.
EVERYONE IN THE NUDE!

 

[Seik]

How about they just leave people wearing whatever the hell they want.

Only thing I can judge her for is how uncomfortable and hot it must be wearing this on the beach on a hot day. Other than that it's hard to give a shit, it's fascinating how some have a thin skin about this stuff.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

There's a ‘Wear What You Want’ beach party protest at the French Embassy tomorrow
in UK.

 

[FStop7]

Can we please ban fat old Italian and French men from wearing Speedos on the beach, too?

 

[Mael]

Can we please ban fat old Italian and French men from wearing Speedos on the beach, too?

Not before we ban Germans with socks in their open shoes!

e: better idea yet, ban everyone from the coastline and leave that to the wildlife.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Not before we ban Germans with socks in their open shoes!

e: better idea yet, ban everyone from the coastline and leave that to the wildlife.

It's pretty useful against mosquitoes bites though...

 

[Mael]

It's pretty useful against mosquitoes bites though...

If anyone gave a shit about that they wouldn't try banning burkinis.

 

[Indicate]

disgusting.

 

[shinobi602]

"Take your damn clothes off!" That beach photo is making my blood boil. What the fucking shit are you doing France?

Meanwhile in Scotland...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34203011

 

[potatohead]

No it's not. The resultant harm of crashing a motorcycle without a helmet if demonstrably worse than that which occurs with one. The government can make laws which restrict behavior when it can be shown that it is actually in the interest of the greater good. A motorcycle helmet's primary purpose is as a piece of safety equipment, not a fashion item. The hypothetical harm caused by wearing a burkini is just that, hypothetical. You can't restrict rights based on assumptions.

Yep.

These bans are wrong. But for better or worse attitudes across the atlantic are very different when it comes to these kinds of freedoms.

Similar bans failed heavily in US and Canada. Attitudes towards pluralism are just way different.

"Take your damn clothes off!" That beach photo is making my blood boil. What the fucking shit are you doing France?

Meanwhile in Scotland...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34203011

Hijab also approved for use in Canada's RCMP.

Turbans have been allowed for RCMP for many years already.

 

[Baybars]

"Take your damn clothes off!" That beach photo is making my blood boil. What the fucking shit are you doing France?

Meanwhile in Scotland...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34203011

Interesting. Didn't realise there is a concerted effort to get muslim women to join the Police force in scotland.

 

[Htown]

Nope. And this is a cornerstone in democracy.
Please notice the moderation of the punishment too, another fundamental acheivement of any civilized legal system (those which don't have death penalty e.g.)

You sound like you learned everything you know about democracy from Kim Jong Un.

 

[Walpurgis]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Unbelievable. This is state sanctioned sexual harassment. France is a terrible place to live.

 

[Ravensmash]

I can't stand some of the comments on news articles about this.

Apparently this was a great job by the police, and if she wants to wear that she can piss off back to the Middle East.

Great to know that the British public is as tolerant as ever.