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[le-seb]

That also never happens in college where wearing the veil was never an issue.

It's not an issue with most people, fortunately.

Universities deal with grown-ups, not children or teens, though.
I suppose their legal responsibilities aren't the same for this reason, hence the differences regarding political and religious matters.

I can bet you could have a male student expelled for wearing a skirt,

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Mael]

It's stupid and scary as fuck - but let's not distort the truth. No one got pepper sprayed.

In that case three armed officers pointed a pepper spray canister in the 34-year-old's face and told her she was in breach of a new rule outlawing swimming costumes that cover the entire body.

Next best thing.
They're actually using violence against innocent bystanders.

To be fair I'm in the UK now (but essentially same thing with BBC) .

You can have controls to make sure you're not dodging that tax.
It's also BS because it finance the radio too and that's something that really need funding.

I think it's an awful idea personally and goes against separation of church and state. But anyway.

As long as they provide the same service and are not disciminating there's no reason they should be excluded.
If you're at these schools and pay the fees to enter you can refuse to attend the religious services.
After all catholic schools had muslims students coming their ways because the students could wear veils there. I'm pretty sure they didn't have to attend a mass.

Not in both of the high school I went to. I just asked to three French friends and the situation was the same for them. But who knows - maybe my region, but I'm skeptical. And again - vampire or not vampire - what is a priest doing on the school ground? Drug trafficking for me happened exclusively right out of the gate (but not inside ) - everyone knew about it of course but it was a hamsterdam type situation: as long as the schools could pretend they had nothing to do with it they were ok not doing shit about it (and tbh - they couldn't )

A priest could make a speech as part of the community or something if it has an interest for the students. As long as they're not pushing their stuffs on school ground there shouldn't be an issue.
And drug trafficking is the joke that keeps on giving, the authorities handles this issue like they handle the whole system, counterproductively and with the worst possible outcomes.they do not understand how it works and they care little to see if what they propose will work as long as they give the impression that they're doing something.
Politicians are the worst thing to happen to schools these last 30 years.

It's not an issue with most people, fortunately.

Universities deal with grown-ups, not children or teens, though.
I suppose their legal responsibilities aren't the same for this reason, hence the differences regarding political and religious matters.

I could see this being an issue in middle school or elementary school (although what would a little kid wear a veil is another question).
For high school, attendance is not mandatory, expell the idiots and be done with it.

Maybe. Maybe not.

You could probably be dressed like a soviet priest and no one would care at these events.
For regular occurences I doubt it.

This veil thing is pissing me off, if we have people harrassing old people for wearing a scarf over their heads because they have theirs so far up their asses, there will be a reconning.

 

[Breakage]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

"Mademoiselle , where is your butt floss?! C'mon and show us!"

 

[JP_]

That's the stupidest thing I read: you think a person in a wetsuit will be splashing about on the beach?

.....what?

 

[harriet the spy]

Next best thing.
They're actually using violence against innocent bystanders.

the main witness said the cop had its hand on the spray, not that he was pointing it.

As long as they provide the same service and are not disciminating there's no reason they should be excluded.
If you're at these schools and pay the fees to enter you can refuse to attend the religious services.
After all catholic schools had muslims students coming their ways because the students could wear veils there. I'm pretty sure they didn't have to attend a mass.

I didn't say any of that, but fact of the matter is - the state is indirectly contributing to religious education, seeing as many of these schools wouldn't be able to provide that religious education if it weren't for the side benefit of not having to pay for almost any teacher expenses. And looking at Averroes - it's potentially bad look for the state to contribute to schools which may or may not be breeding ground for religious intolerance.

A priest could make a speech as part of the community or something if it has an interest for the students. As long as they're not pushing their stuffs on school ground there shouldn't be an issue.

Sure thing (in which case they don't need to come dressed as priests) - but my point was that it was not common. I have definitely not heard of these 'common priest visits' in school grounds.

 

[Mael]

the main witness said the cop had its hand on the spray, not that he was pointing it.

That is still unacceptable.
She wasn't disturbing the peace or anything, she was just at the beach enjoying the sun.
Which is apparently now something that muslims are no longer allowed to do.
Because that is the message this is sending.

I didn't say any of that, but fact of the matter is - the state is indirectly contributing to religious education, seeing as many of these schools wouldn't be able to provide that religious education if it weren't for the side benefit of not having to pay for almost any teacher expenses. And looking at Averroes - it's potentially bad look for the state to contribute to schools which may or may not be breeding ground for religious intolerance.

Yeah, no.
Again if it was a problem we would have closed all these catholic schools long ago.
the religious teaching is rarely expensive, I'm pretty sure we didn't pay anything to get that religious teaching and we weren't in a private school either.
If people don't have a problem with Civitas and others preaching to kids anywhere Averroes shouldn't raise any special flag.

Sure thing (in which case they don't need to come dressed as priests) - but my point was that it was not common. I have definitely not heard of these 'common priest visits' in school grounds.

It never striked as something deeply problematic or special either.
If you ask me the political presence in colleges and all are a far bigger problem.

 

[JackDT]

Do the French realize how ridiculous they look? As absurd and vile as Basiji thugs who harass women for wearing bad hijab in Tehran.

Every religious enforcer in Muslim world will say, "See? You're not free to dress how you like in France, either!" And they'll be right!

https://twitter.com/borzou/status/768237506026274816

 

[dabig2]

https://twitter.com/borzou/status/768237506026274816

Extremist terrorist groups like ISIS and such love this shit. It's the major reason they do attacks against the West. They know they're not going to truly defeat large, developed, secular countries with isolated attacks here and there; but what they can do is foment enough distrust and bad blood between the peoples to create an environment where all of a sudden they look like the intrepid hero fighting and struggling for the rights of their peoples against oppression. One of the oldest tricks in the book.

 

[JackDT]

Extremist terrorist groups like ISIS and such love this shit. It's the major reason they do attacks against the West. They know they're not going to truly defeat large, developed, secular countries with isolated attacks here and there; but what they can do is foment enough distrust and bad blood between the peoples to create an environment where all of a sudden they look like the intrepid hero fighting and struggling for the rights of their peoples against oppression. One of the oldest tricks in the book.

Yeah, you can imagine them using this image all the time now. "See, you aren't free to be Muslim in those countries, that's why we fight."

 

[Baki]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Anyone defending this can go fuck themselves.

How is this anything but institutionalised xenophobia.

France can be such a backwards country sometimes.

 

[King Gilga]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

lmao what a shithole.

 

[Lamel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37168192

Holy shit this is the exact type of atmosphere most muslims feared, racists out in force and the Police are now fining for wearing hijabs. What did the Mayor think would happen? He portrayed their clothing as antagonistic to others, the fault is not with peoples ignorance but minorities and their clothing. What will the children of Siam think? The town is picking on their mother for no reason, do you honestly think with treatment like this they grow up to feel as if their part of the community or build distrust for being mistreated? This is pure discrimination. I hope she builds a case and takes them to court.

This is exactly what I said; the burkini is effectively a hijab on the beach, and they have banned it.

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Lol that's amazing, not even a "burkini" but more like a classic salwar kameez outfit from south asia.

Ex:

But I guess her hair covered up and tied is maybe too extreme of a look so the top had to go.

Anyone defending this is out of their minds.

 

[JP_]

While ago I posted this

I'm not a fan of parents indoctrinating kids into their religion but yeah it's a pretty universal thing and I think the only way to reduce it is to be more inclusive. Let's say this ban goes through -- what do we expect the outcome to be? You think muslim women will just wear a regular bikini? My bet is they'll just stop going to the beach. Now you've further isolated them, which is simply counter-productive.

Integrated, modern societies are the best way to reduce religiousness and increase secularism. Europe has done a poor job integrating their muslim populations -- they end up with what are basically ghettos that are highly segregated and often have high poverty rates. When you segregate communities and a lack of support allows poverty to decimate livelihoods and socioeconomic mobility, it creates problems -- this goes for all races and religions.

Now FiveThirtyEight has some new data to back the idea up. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...e-making-america-less-religious/?ex_cid=538fb

 

[Laughing Banana]

If someone is caucasian or asian, it is likely they aren't muslim. Do you think that's wrong?

What is this goddamn stupidity?

The country with the LARGEST Islamic population in the world is in Asia, for God's sake!

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Nah. It's the bush argument for vouchers and it's a stupid one. There is a public system - if you don't want to use it, you are on your own. I don't have kids or a tv and yet my taxes pay for schools and public television.

So don't ban muslims girl from public school for wearing hijab.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

Secularism saved !

That was a close one.

/s

What next really ? Banning long skirt in schools ? Oh... All right.

 

[Shadowheart]

lmao what a shithole.

France is a shithole?

That's even more hilarious than your avy.

 

[Maz]

Secularism saved !

That was a close one.

/s

What next really ? Banning long skirt in schools ? Oh... All right.

Not allowing a girl to attend school for a long skirt is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard a school doing.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Not allowing a girl to attend school for a long skirt is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard a school doing.

I think my fav part is where they basically admit if anyone else was wearimg it'd be fine it's just cause she's muslim...

 

[nilbog21]

lmao what a shithole.

great post

 

[spekkeh]

Is that even ostentatious religious clothing, or just bad by association?

It does work though, she doesn't leave as some people argued. Emancipation!

 

[Chuckie]

What is this goddamn stupidity?

The country with the LARGEST Islamic population in the world is in Asia, for God's sake!

The only real Asians are Chinese, Japanese and Koreans... didn't you know!

 

[orochi91]

Is that even ostentatious religious clothing, or just bad by association?

It does work though, she doesn't leave as some people argued. Emancipation!

From the BBC article covering the same story:

"Because of people who have nothing to do with my religion have killed, I no longer have the right to go to the beach!"
Siam said she thought hard before going public about the incident, which happened on 16 August, but "could not let it go in our country".
"Today we are forbidden from the beach. Tomorrow, the street?"

I don't think she's returning to that beach.

 

[le-seb]

Not allowing a girl to attend school for a long skirt is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard a school doing.

You should be careful about these sensationalist news, they rarely tell the whole story.
Here's the one from the other side of the gun:

Lorsque l'équipe éducative remarque le changement de style vestimentaire de cette lycéenne en classe de première, à savoir une longue robe noire, elle décide de discuter avec elle afin d'en connaître la raison. «Il faut savoir que sa mère avait signalé des soupçons de radicalisation et demandé un suivi, ce qui a accru la vigilance du corps enseignant», précise l'académie de Créteil au Figaro. Lundi dernier, la CPE la convoque afin de discuter. Un échange houleux auquel la jeune fille a mis fin prématurément d'après la proviseure adjointe, témoin de la scène. La proviseure la convoque alors à son tour mais là aussi, l'échange est difficile.

«Ce n'est pas la tenue mais l'attitude qui a poussé le corps enseignant à lui refuser l'accès à l'établissement, nous affirme l'académie de Créteil. Le dialogue n'était pas serein et la pression s'est accrue. Une forme de défiance a été ressentie, notamment en raison du fait qu'elle a enregistré l'échange avec la proviseure et l'a ensuite fait écouter autour d'elle. À aucun moment il n'a été question d'exclusion et le dialogue avec la mère n'a été interrompu. Nous l'avons contactée à deux reprises mardi matin et en fin d'après-midi.»

Et pour cause: depuis mercredi, la jeune fille suit normalement ses cours mais «dans une tenue différente» d'après une information du commissariat. «Notre priorité est que les élèves suivent normalement leur cursus scolaire, poursuit l'académie. Une robe longue et noire n'est bien entendu par un motif d'exclusion et n'est pas interdite.»

 

[Maz]

You should be careful about these sensationalist news, they rarely tell the whole story.
Here's the one from the other side of the gun:

I cant read french and google translate is hard to understand.

From what I get:

1- mom reported her to school fearing that her daughter is being radicalized

2- school gets in a heated discussion about the way shes dressed (long black skirt). Where I assume the teenager told them to fuck off, she will dress however she wants to. She does remove the hijab before entering school, she was following the law.

3. School suspends her for dressing in the black skirt

4. They talk some more, she is forced to change from the long muslim radicalized skirt to anything else so she can attend classes.

So basically a fuck you just becsuse your muslim, another student wearing a skirt wont be addressed this way (they admitted it). Your source isnt helping your cause of this being s reasonable response to a teenage girl wearing a skirt

 

[nilbog21]

I cant read french and google translate is hard to understand.

It says her mother had suspicions that she was being radicalized and had asked that she be followed. Additionally, it was her attitude and defiance that led her from being restricted in the building and not the dress, claims the school..

 

[excelsiorlef]

I cant read french and google translate is hard to understand.

Mother thought her kid was radicalized, that turned out not to be the case.

They claim the kid's bad attitude was the real reason they denied her entry.

Last part says skirt is a reason for exclusion but also not prohibited which is a weird sentence.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

I cant read french and google translate is hard to understand.

Her mother suspected she might be getting radicalized and asked for her to be followed in the first place.

The principal claims that the punishment was not because of what she was wearing but because of how she was acting. Notably, the principal contacted her but their discussion was ended early because of the student's behavior. Afterward, the girl showed her discussion with the principal around (she had recorded it). The girl is not getting kicked out either (she still attends class, just in a different outfit), and dialogue with her mother has not been interrupted or anything.

 

[Maz]

It says her mother had suspicions that she was being radicalized and had asked that she be followed. Additionally, it was her attitude and defiance that led her from being restricted in the building and not the dress, claims the school..

If its only the atitude then why was she only allowed back after she changed how she dressed herself? This info is curtisy of google translate so I might have a few details wrong

 

[Maz]

Her mother suspected she might be getting radicalized and asked for her to be followed in the first place.

The principal claims that the punishment was not because of what she was wearing but because of how she was acting. Notably, the principal contacted her but their discussion was ended early because of the student's behavior. Afterward, the girl showed her discussion with the principal around (she had recorded it). The girl is not getting kicked out either (she still attends class, just in a different outfit), and dialogue with her mother has not been interrupted or anything.

Well that's not a good idea.

I never ment to say she was expelled my bad, more like suspended till she changes her dress. Just put yourself in her shoes and youll understand why shes upset over the whole thing.
1- mom thinks and told your school your a radical
2- school telling you that only you are not allowed to wear this kind of skirt
3- Being a teenager

 

[Mr Waluigi]

If its only the atitude then why was she only allowed back after she changed how she dressed herself? This info is curtisy of google translate so I might have a few details wrong

Her mother alerted the school staff claiming she might be getting radicalized, so they had low tolerance for anything that might imply so - which is both her wearing the long skirt, and her disobeying the staff. Which is why they're not letting her wear the skirt at school, although she still attends class.

Well that's not a good idea.

I never ment to say she was expelled my bad, more like suspended till she changes her dress. Just put yourself in her shoes and youll understand why shes upset over the whole thing.
1- mom thinks and told your school your a radical
2- school telling you that only you are not allowed to wear this kind of skirt
3- Being a teenager

When you are suspected of getting radicalized and your principal wants to discuss it with you, the last thing you want to do is to tell them to piss off (and recording the discussion to show it around, on top of that). Being a teenager is not an excuse. I am not saying she is radicalized, but I can see why she would get punished in one way or another.

 

[spekkeh]

Yeah sure she's upset, she's a teenager. She also should listen to her mom and not flirt with radical Islam.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah sure she's upset, she's a teenager. She also should listen to her mom and not flirt with radical Islam.

Did they find amy substantiated proof that she has?

She converted but they didn't find radicalism.

 

[Kurtofan]

Did they find amy substantiated proof that she has?

She converted but they didn't find radicalism.

Yeah I'm sure the white teen convert to islam isn't radical...

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah I'm sure the white teen convert to islam isn't radical...

You have proof?

The School didn't.

 

[Maz]

Yeah sure she's upset, she's a teenager. She also should listen to her mom and not flirt with radical Islam.

If changing the way you dress to a long skirt and wearing hijab makes you a suspect of radicalization then you can go ahead and label the majority of muslim women as suspects and be done with it.
Who wouldnt feel targeted after what shes gone through, recording the conversation was a bad move but when you feel like your being backed in a corner you act irrationaly and lash out.

Its hard to really judge what happened without knowing exactly how the school approached the whole situation. As punishments go forbidding the skirt is ridiculus, some kind of extra work or detention style punishment for her behaivor is more appropriate and sends the right msg

Yeah I'm sure the white teen convert to islam isn't radical...

I dont even know how to respond to this.....

 

[foxuzamaki]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach





This is violent religious oppression

I think what gets me most about this is that nobody cared what she was wearing until the police came and harassed her

 

[Jacobi]

What is this goddamn stupidity?

The country with the LARGEST Islamic population in the world is in Asia, for God's sake!

You call me stupid? I said it is LIKELY. Do yo know the meaning of the word and how population in Asia is distributed?

Again: Do you guys know the meaning of the word likely?
I know Indonesians, I visited Malaysia, I still know that there's more non-muslim Asians than Muslims

edit: it's also really easy to take the post out of context, all I was talking about was the article about the burkini online shop, but I guess it's easier to drop by and write a quick reply than to check the context

 

[Kurtofan]

You have proof?

The School didn't.

general trends... government advises to report people who become suddenly religious and wear religious garb/covering garb. they are considered as potential radicals.

A report considers "clean" white converts with a clean sheet as facilitators between terror cells.

 

[excelsiorlef]

general trends... government advises to report people who become suddenly religious and wear religious garb/covering garb. they are considered as potential radicals.

School found she wasn't soooooo.....

Proof?

 

[le-seb]

If changing the way you dress to a long skirt and wearing hijab makes you a suspect of radicalization then you can go ahead and label the majority of muslim women as suspects and be done with it.

Are you missing the point that it's her own mother who alerted the staff that she might be getting radicalized?

A sudden change in outfit probably rang a bell, and they wanted to discuss it with her.
This didn't go well and escalated to the principal, who waited for her arrival on the next day.
She probably told the principal to go fuck herself, recorded the discussion and bragged about it with her friends.
Which is certainly the reason why she was sent back home that day, until a discussion was had with her mother.

We don't (and probably never will) know all the details about this affair, but there's obviously more to it than a simple "Muslim girl sent home by school in France over long skirt" news header.

 

[harriet the spy]

That is still unacceptable.
She wasn't disturbing the peace or anything, she was just at the beach enjoying the sun.
Which is apparently now something that muslims are no longer allowed to do.
Because that is the message this is sending.

I completely agree with this - I'm just saying there is no need to distort or amplify the truth. It just adds to the old right wing canard that social issues are frequently distorted or made up.
The story is bad enough as it is.

Yeah, no.
Again if it was a problem we would have closed all these catholic schools long ago.
the religious teaching is rarely expensive, I'm pretty sure we didn't pay anything to get that religious teaching and we weren't in a private school either.
If people don't have a problem with Civitas and others preaching to kids anywhere Averroes shouldn't raise any special flag.

I'm not sure what you are going on about. Did we grow up in the same country ? You should not have received *any* religious teaching in school. Are you from
Alsace or something ? If you mean catechism that has nothing to do with the government. If you mean history of religion then it's nothing like religious school.

And of course people should have a problem with both civitas and Averroes (if those allegations are true).

It never striked as something deeply problematic or special either.
If you ask me the political presence in colleges and all are a far bigger problem.

I dont think political presence is supposed to happen either but I could be wrong.

 

[Maz]

Are you missing the point that it's her own mother who alerted the staff that she might be getting radicalized?

A sudden change in outfit probably rang a bell, and they wanted to discuss it with her.
This didn't go well and escalated to the principal, who waited for her arrival on the next day.
She probably told the principal to go fuck herself, recorded the discussion and bragged about it with her friends.
Which is certainly the reason why she was sent back home that day, until a discussion was had with her mother.

We don't (and probably never will) know all the details about this affair, but there's obviously more to it than a simple "Muslim girl sent home by school in France over long skirt" news header.

You do realize that dressing more modestly is a very strong belief in islam, so any new converts will probably do that. So let me change my comment to putting all new converts who decide to dress modestly to radicalization/terror watchlist.
The fact that the accusation came from the mother is the saddest part of the whole story, this topic is depressing me so I'll just take a break.

 

[eizarus]

Yeah I'm sure the white teen convert to islam isn't radical...

Based on your comments in this thread and the other one, I have to ask something. Son, is there a confederate flag in your bedroom?

 

[Kurtofan]

Based on your comments in this thread and the other one, I have to ask something. Son, is there a confederate flag in your bedroom?

I don't think what I said is so controversial... it was the plot of an episode of Little Mosque on the Prairie too. But I apologize to non radical converts, even if I think the whole concept of dressing modestly to be outdated in 2016.

I didn't mean to say they were all terrorists.

edit: the "teen" part was important, I thinks teens can be manipulated quite easily.

 

[Chuckie]

You call me stupid? I said it is LIKELY. Do yo know the meaning of the word and how population in Asia is distributed?

About 33% of the Asian population is muslim. So yeah it is pretty likely an Asian is a muslim. You however probably mean Asians from the 'far east'.

 

[freeofgreed]

four policemen to make sure this women shows skin! Good job France!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...front-French-woman-wearing-burkini-on-a-beach



This is violent religious oppression

Man, this image really makes my blood boil. I don't know how any who claims they are progressive or cares about woman's rights can look at this and think this is ok. For 4 fucking police man, to harass a woman enjoying herself on a beach and force her to undress. This is absolutely disgusting.

 

[nilbog21]

I think what gets me most about this is that nobody cared what she was wearing until the police came and harassed her

Except it was probably someone on that beach that felt uncomfortable and notified the police. No need to blame the police for this. They're just doing their job. This is a very sensitive issue in France atm and those cops probably consulted with their supervisor before intervening. There is much less abuse by police in France compared to the US. To me it looks like the cops feel very awkward doing this.

 

[Derwind]

Man, this image really makes my blood boil. I don't know how any who claims they are progressive or cares about woman's rights can look at this and think this is ok. For 4 fucking police man, to harass a woman enjoying herself on a beach and force her to undress. This is absolutely disgusting.

No need to be alarmed, we know what's best for her.

She's being liberated from her own oppression.

Plus we're fighting terrorism at the same time.

Or as they say getting two birds stoned at once.

...freedom!

 

[Mistouze]

No need to be alarmed, we know what's best for her.

She's being liberated from her own oppression.

Plus we're fighting terrorism at the same time.

Or as they say getting two birds stoned at once.

...freedom!

AMERIC-huh-FRANCE!