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[chubigans]

Please enlighten me.

In the context of all of the other components and R&D my point is that $15 is small fries. Many of us would have made different choices on where to cut corners. Sony did it with the drive.

It's not unreasonable for me to have an opinion based on admitted rough estimation that does respect my understanding of other costs on things like retooling manufacturing line and availability of components in the supply chain. People seemed to want an idea on what the cost was so I did my best. Sorry if my opinion bothered you.

I'm referring to this:

In the context of major components it is a small part. I realize $15 spread over millions of consoles isn't insignificant. But then why did they bother to spend more on a better wifi chip? Or spend the R&D on a new case when they could have saved millions using a special color and keeping the old design plus better cooling.

I mean, the whole system is bigger for a reason. It is heaver for a reason. You cannot slam these internals into a PS4 and hope for the best. Everything is designed for precision, whether its a PS4 or an XB1 or any kind of mass manufactured electronic item.

$15 is a massive sum of money across multiple consoles. Microsoft dropped the Kinect port off the XB1 S. They then offered free adapters to Kinect owners who were upgrading to the S. Why would they do this? To save, I dunno, maybe a buck?

Sony dropped the audio optical port off the PS4 slim. They also removed the touch sensitive buttons. How much do you think they saved there? Pennies? Possibly so, given how old optical ports are.

Even if $15 is spot on accurate, which is definitely isn't, it would be a huge savings for something that they have actual data on whether consumers would actually utilize it or not.

It would have been nice if they included it, but it's more of a sign of how the UHD market is doing that they felt its omission would benefit them more than including it would have.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Lol. Horizon looks boring too.

Nope.

 

[Toki767]

Dude, "trolling" seriously? It's a major feature and if it's on the oldest, cheapest 4K console you'd expect it to be on the newest, most expensive one too.

The Wii and Wii U were newer than the PS3 and 360. It didn't even play DVDs.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

It is $50 cheaper for the 1tb one s, and it has 1/3 the grunt.. Do you not see how yoir distortion and concern for how sony looks come off as trolling?

So a customer walking into a store can see this "grunt" you speak of, but not that one is a 4K Blu-Ray player for $50 less?

Yeah. Ok. Now that's distortion.

 

[MazeHaze]

September 7 2016.

The day when, suddenly, 4K Blu-ray player became the most decisive factor for the choice of your gaming system.

Eh, if the perspective of watching Game of Thrones in 4K is more important than playing this, go for it, gamers, express your anger by keeping your wallet closed. You'll be missed.

But this isn't really true. For those of us that 4K blu- ray was a must have feature, it's been a decisive factor since this system first leaked. It's just a big deal now because everyone assumed it would have it, and it's kind of surprising and ridiculous that it doesn't. Plenty of people on here were planning on buying this for 4k blu ray support, most of us double dipping from standard ps4s.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

What a dumbasses they are still tyed to the masses... Great chance to move up the business a bit and how they blow it.. They really mixed all they're focus and demographic target.. This console is all over the place... A premium wannabe... An half assed console.. If the OG PS4 will have enabled via firmwere and the slim have also HDR capabilities the only thing that differentiates the pro is the 2x GPU power! Pathetic.. The value offered to buy this thing for a person already with a PS4 is... little more than zero!!

 

[QaaQer]

Maybe data showed them no one used the PS4 blu ray player but they didnt realise the reason no one uses the PS4 as a BR player is because its loud as fuck when spinning a disc on top of normal PS4 loudness.


I still use my PS3 as my regular BR player.

Me too. Ps3 is still a great br player, 4 has always sucked.

 

[goldenpp72]

And you care about Sony's profit per console why? They are already jacking up PS+ in 2 weeks as it is for a nice little money cusion

This is a consumer complaint, obviously they did it to make more money per unit

Due to not being close minded, a company is a set of people who make decisions people would make. I don't look at them like some kind of overlords who toss crumbs to the peasants, so I rationalize all sides. Otherwise i'd be mad they don't charge 200 instead of 400, because i'm a consumer and that would be nice. I understand how things work and make my decisions based on what I think is fair as a consumer.

We see companies like Nintendo remove features that cost a dollar to them on a per console basis, because over 50 million sales, that can be 50 million to your bottom line. If the feature is one of low demand but will cost you hundreds of millions of dollars, then I can rationalize why they did it. Personally, this does impact me. I plan to buy a 4K TV next year, and desire a 4K player. I currently own something like 500 Blu Rays and was hoping to continue that with 4K, and will not be doing so on this platform. As a consumer, this means i'll just use the platform that does. If Sony did the math and determined I'm not the kind of customer they are gunning for, I can understand it and will do what a rational person should do, go with the option that fits you best

Gamers are an entitled bunch that's for sure, these companies don't care about anything but their bottom line, I treat them as a product provider, run by other humans trying to make money, something I also do. If the product is great I will go for it, in this case, it's not so great and I will maybe pick it up much further down the line. If Scorpio also gains superior multiplatform games I'll also shift my focus from PS4 as a platform to Xbox, again that's the nature of competition unless you hold some kind of unhealthy relationship with the company.

 

[Justice_Bolt]

Apparently you have never watched a true Uhd disk vs. compressed streaming Uhd.

Exactly. Some people don't understand i think.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

Who cares about Blu rays the future is digital

Seriously, I know people are ingrained in their "but the superior format" beliefs, but the writing is on the wall. Physical format sales are continuing to decline. Heck, the blu-Ray was never even able to make the dvd fully obsolete since it never overtook it in the market share.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

But not 4K UHD. The adoption rate for 4K tvs isn't forcasted to hit 33% until 2019, while at the same time physical movie sales continue to see double digital declines on an annual basis. Combine the two and you a niche market combining with a declining one.

Sony has access to market data, and decided that it wasn't worth the $15. That should tell you something.

Double dipping on a $400 console revision is a niche market in a declining market (dedicated video game hardware).

The type of person (me) who would buy a PS4 Pro wants to check every box. I intended to have a Bone S under one 4K HDR TV and a PS4 Pro under the other but that's out the window now.

The Wii and Wii U were newer than the PS3 and 360. It didn't even play DVDs.

No one expected the Wii U to do anything well, and it flopped

Maybe Sony should take the headphone jack off their revised controllers too

 

[dano1]

Considering this generation will last another 3-4 years many will have a 4k tv befire the end. So having a player would be great to have for when they buy that tv. I can't imagine buying a 4k and not having a UHD bluray player to make use of it. Streaming is not going to cut it for 4k HDR.

If UHD disc take off guess what wil be available in 3-4 years ?

Also

But you'll find much more of this material on streaming video services. Companies such as Amazon and Netflix have been moving quickly to add to their rosters of 4K movies and TV shows. Many of these programs also support high dynamic range, or HDR, a technology that allows for more contrast between bright and dark areas of the picture. That brings greater realism, detail, and vibrancy to many scenes.

 

[The_Dama]

Doesn't Sony own the rights to BR anyway with some other companies? They would save money on royalty fees.

 

[dragonbane]

They should have included it, but then again it won't be used for games, so it would be purely so a niche can playback 4K discs. Maybe those $15 would have put them into the loss territory and they wanted to stick with 399 at all costs.

 

[MindGamingMantis]

It's a big fucking mistake. A lot of people wanted 4k players that aren't an xbox. A 4k player that also plays their favorite games...

You apologists are hilarious. This will bite them in the ass. To what extent, not sure.

Also, it's shit like this that is resulting in 4k not taking off. Where's the fucking support?

 

[JustenP88]

Exactly. Some people don't understand i think.

Nah, it's just a lot of us are fine with settling for the convenience. If Netflix has something streaming in 4K, I'm going to roll with that instead of going out and trying to acquire that Blu-ray through a purchase or rental. I'm fine with that trade off and I'm sure that Sony is betting on a lot of people being in the same boat.

 

[grizzelye]

Mark Cerny was thinking "boy, my Xbox one s already has a UHD drive. I can forego the UHD drive in the pro. As I don't need TWO UHD bluray players"

 

[SURGEdude]

If they believe the 4K market is going to be niche enough till the PS5 then they'll probably think most will just buy a standalone player. Anyone buying an XB1 is likely to be a gamer and if you are a serious gamer right now Sony know they have a lot of the spotlight there. Meaning I think a reasonable amount of gamers who have XB1s also have PS4s.

Either way I don't think they see everything riding on the PS division. It already does gangbusters due to gaming. 4K if its not to die a death like 3D or progress at a pace that isn't a crawl needs more than a PS4. It needs the mass market to give a shit and not all just rely on Netflix and ordinary much cheaper blu rays.

This seems like a good take on the situation.

Projections are hypotheticals and I'm in the camp that says this wasn't worth cutting. Sony, on the other hand feels this was a good place to save in component costs. Short of it being a massive failure because of any 4k owners (very unlikely) or a Kinect like launch bonanza (unlikely) we won't really be able to say for sure which path would have been the better choice from the standpoint of their balance sheet.

 

[Aenima]

You apologists are hilarious. This will bite them in the ass. To what extent, not sure.

It will bite them as much as last gen bitted the X360 for not having a Blu Ray player... probably, much less than that

PS4 Pro will sell like hot cookies at that price, and 95% of the owners will not be even using a 4k TV.

 

[Boss Man]

The Wii and Wii U were newer than the PS3 and 360. It didn't even play DVDs.

It's more like the 360 not playing HD discs until they did the HD-DVD add-on. People want to play the new HD discs in the new "HD" consoles and they also want to play the new 4k discs in the new "4K" consoles. Difference that makes it more offensive is the Xbox S is already out and it's cheaper than the PS4 Pro which won't have it.

Also, yeah Nintendo makes more money off of their hardware good for them. I'm more concerned with what I get not what Sony gets.

 

[teiresias]

I mean, I can understand that people that are fine with subpar, low bitrate, and low quality audio 4k Netflix internet streaming might also be impressed with the fake 4k graphics rendering trickery being done to try and effectively market this console, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to lower our standards just because we might be fans of Sony and their previous console output.

I'm going to call a spade a spade despite the fact that i'm pretty much a Sony fanboy, and this decision is one of the stupidest damn spades I've seen happen in this industry in a long time.

 

[Vinc]

Seriously, I know people are ingrained in their "but the superior format" beliefs, but the writing is on the wall. Physical format sales are continuing to decline. Heck, the blu-Ray was never even able to make the dvd fully obsolete since it never overtook it in the market share.

People who buy 4K TVs currently care about it, because that's where you get the ONLY content that currently truly takes advantage of new 4K TVs.

This machine is aimed at enthusiasts, and enthusiasts care about this stuff.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Physical media is like cable. Just because you see a lot of people talking about cord cutting and all that it doesn't mean it's on the way out any time soon. DVD/Bluray software revenue is at 6 Billion with the big holiday months still to come. It's probably not 2004's revenue but it's still far from death rattle money.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm noticing this trend where as soon as a console manufacturer gets the number one market position they turn into retards and piss away all of that good will.

I hope Microsoft really take it up to Sony with the Scorpio.

Well this is a games console, it's not a movie box. Sony have always maintained its #4theplayers not #4themoviebuffs.

Multifunctionality has been a major component of the Playstation brand ever since the beginning. You think the PS2 would have been a behemoth if it didn't support DVD's?

 

[Toki767]

Physical media is like cable. Just because you see a lot of people talking about cord cutting and all that it doesn't mean it's on the way out any time soon. DVD/Bluray software revenue is at 6 Billion with the big holiday months still to come. It's probably not 2004's revenue but it's still far from death rattle money.

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The PS4 Pro will still play DVDs and regular blu-rays. The formats that sell the most and make the most money.

 

[Omnii-chan]

Who cares about Blu rays the future is digital

Because I can't stream 4k movies on my internet connection...

Streaming quality isn't as nice either.

Did you ever consider that they're passing the savings onto you by ignoring movies and television? It's 4 the Players and not 4 the Watchers, you fucking ingrates.

Whoa lol, calm down buddy.

It's an extra $15 for them, they could just ask for an extra $30 from us for it or something. I'd pay a little bit extra for it. Its an enthusiast machine.

 

[Neander]

It will bite them as much as last gen bitted the X360 for not having a Blu Ray player... probably, much less than that

The 360 got away with it because it came out before Bluray players were a thing and there wasn't a format standard until a few years down the line. Different scenarios.

 

[CrazedProfessional]

Who cares about Blu rays the future is digital

Who cares about other countries. I agree FUCK THEM!

lmao

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

If we set up a poll right now,irregardless of whether you intent to buy the Pro, how many people would actually care about the blu ray player vs $399

 

[Narpas Sword0]

People who buy 4K TVs currently care about it, because that's where you get the ONLY content that currently truly takes advantage of new 4K TVs.

This machine is aimed at enthusiasts, and enthusiasts care about this stuff.

Yes

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The PS4 Pro will still play DVDs and regular blu-rays. The formats that sell the most and make the most money.

They are targeting this console at 4K TV owners. The Slim is for the people who like DVDs and Blu Rays

 

[Adam Tyner]

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The format's only been around for 6 months, and there are fewer than 100 titles on the market. Comparing it to one format that's 19 years old and another that's been around for 10 years doesn't really prove anything. DVD's market share in its first 6 months was no great shakes either. I mean, it's hard to imagine this ever becoming a craze, but it's way too early to fret about market share.

 

[Boss Man]

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The PS4 Pro will still play DVDs and regular blu-rays. The formats that sell the most and make the most money.

But they're not the formats that take advantage of the technology that the PS4 Pro is aiming to take advantage of.

 

[Art Vandilay]

If we set up a poll right now,irregardless of whether you intent to buy the Pro, how many people would actually care about the blu ray player?

I'm sure you'll get accurate results from this "poll".

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Well, aside from the fact that it does.

Maybe downloaded and streamed content. Games will barely get 30fps if it even hits the full 4k spec. The devs might "cheat"

 

[vpance]

People who buy 4K TVs currently care about it, because that's where you get the ONLY content that currently truly takes advantage of new 4K TVs.

This machine is aimed at enthusiasts, and enthusiasts care about this stuff.

They may have said so in the past, but I don't think it really is. At these specs and price, it's clearly aimed somewhere below enthusiast but above casual.

Feels like a bit of weird product TBH. I'll likely get a standalone player sometime next year when more movies come out.

 

[outunderthestars]

People who buy 4K TVs currently care about it, because that's where you get the ONLY content that currently truly takes advantage of new 4K TVs.

This machine is aimed at enthusiasts, and enthusiasts care about this stuff.

edit: strike that.


PC gaming is targeted at enthusiasts. Console gaming is a more casual market. UHD movies are not that same market.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

 

[Brutalitops]

Who cares about Blu rays the future is digital

I didn't know Adam Orth posted here

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

That 18 dollars machine cost would add at least another 40-50 to the price tag. I remember discussion during the sega cd era that a chip with expanded color pallate would have cost Sega another 5-10 dollars which in turn would have raised the price of the Sega CD another 50 dollars. I wonder if that scenario applies here too?

 

[Shiggy]

Maybe they assumed everyone is streaming these days? How are sales of Blu-ray movies faring?

 

[QaaQer]

People who buy 4K TVs currently care about it, because that's where you get the ONLY content that currently truly takes advantage of new 4K TVs.

This machine is aimed at enthusiasts, and enthusiasts care about this stuff.

Enthusiasts have $1000 Nvidia cards and stand alone players with proper remote controls. Consoles are as mass market as mass market gets.

 

[Brutalitops]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

I don't remember MS excluding video games from their system?

 

[Boss Man]

They may have said so in the past, but I don't think it really is. At these specs and price, it's clearly aimed somewhere below enthusiast but above casual.

Which seems like a bad place, IMHO.

A $199 PS4 Slim seems smarter than jumping half-assedly into 4K.

 

[ForkNetwork]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

Killer

 

[BocoDragon]

All I know is that I have zero faith in UHD Blu-Ray as a major format after today.

It's a Sony format that even Sony isn't trojan horsing into their game hardware?

Laserdisc 2016.

 

[shira]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

savage as fuck first post

 

[Toki767]

All I know is that I have zero faith in UHD Blu-Ray as a major format after today.

It's a Sony format that even Sony isn't trojan horsing into their game hardware?

Laserdisc 2016.

Poor minidisc

 

[outunderthestars]

Maybe they assumed everyone is streaming these days? How are sales of Blu-ray movies faring?

down 13% last year and continuing to decline at an increasing rate.

 

[spwolf]

So a customer walking into a store can see this "grunt" you speak of, but not that one is a 4K Blu-Ray player for $50 less?

Yeah. Ok. Now that's distortion.

lol... well those same customers did not see the value in XB1 having Kinect and supposedly being a TV box or whatever it was for a while.

Instead they purchased more powerful but same priced console - PS4, in this case PS4 Slim.

Thinking people are stupid and that they will not realize PS4 Pro is 3x more powerful is just patronizing the customer and just what MS has been trying to do all along and it did not work.

 

[Celcius]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

GOLDEN ahaha