Support NeoGAF

[Fortuneelsewhere]

I mean, I can understand that people that are fine with subpar, low bitrate, and low quality audio 4k Netflix internet streaming might also be impressed with the fake 4k graphics rendering trickery being done to try and effectively market this console, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to lower our standards just because we might be fans of Sony and their previous console output.

But my friend unfortunlly we have to as the console games business is really not for us... I was hopping Pro would be the changing point were they did finally understood that there are a target willing to spend a bit more to have a premium experience... But no,Pro is pretty much still a console for the average consumer with average standards...

 

[dreamer3kx]

Wait Xbox One S has one and not the ps4 pro, joking, not the scorpia, we're talking about the one s.

 

[ultrazilla]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

Dat first post.

I own an Xbox One but wasn't planning on buying any further iteration of the hardware.

I own all three major consoles-Wii U, Xbox One and Sony Playstation 4. The PS4 and Wii U get more play than the Xbox One simply because there's really not much I care for that MS offers besides the Halo and Forza series atm.

Hopefully I'll be in the position within the upcoming 12 months to get a nice new 4K television as prices seem to be coming down. I had planned on Sony giving us a *KILLER* new powerful iteration of the PS4 with one of the main points being 4K Blu Ray playback.

The fact that the PS4 "Pro" can only stream 4K content and can't play 4K blu ray discs is a huge deal breaker for me and imo an idiotic move by Sony that burns the goodwill they generated over the initital Xbox One always online fiasco.

Hell at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the Nintendo NX has 4k Blu Ray support.

Spoiler

relax...I know it most likely won't!

So Sony's idiotic pivot has lead me right into Microsoft's arms with a system that will be nice and powerful AND play 4K blu ray discs.

I always have one dominant system that is the base of my home theater/entertainment hub. It's the one I put Netflix, WWE Network, etc on. The PS4 has been that system.

Now that the PS4 Pro will not be supporting 4K blu ray discs, I'll be looking for Microsoft and their systems to make my primary home entertainment system.

Trust me, there's a bunch of us out there who feel like this.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

It's a big fucking mistake. A lot of people wanted 4k players that aren't an xbox. A 4k player that also plays their favorite games...

You apologists are hilarious. This will bite them in the ass. To what extent, not sure.

Also, it's shit like this that is resulting in 4k not taking off. Where's the fucking support?

 

[RoKKeR]

Disappointing and incredibly bewildering if true.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The PS4 Pro will still play DVDs and regular blu-rays. The formats that sell the most and make the most money.

How many people have 4K tvs? Didn't stop them from pimping how amazing 4k and HDR is for most of the conference.

 

[MrBenchmark]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

Savage and my feelings as well. I don't know what the hell is going on at Sony.

 

[quest]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

Well the reason the Xb1 was so poorly received was not the media functions. It was people thought the console performance suffered because of those functions. If the XB1 had similar power to the PS4 it would of been a lot different. On the pro people just see no UHD as being just cheap and money grabbing.

 

[rtcn63]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

Sony doesn't care about one person. They care about the thousands plus who'd buy it at $400 sans UHD, but according to their own research, likely wouldn't at $415 with UHD. (Probably closer to $450 considering UHD is still fairly new to the market)

 

[SURGEdude]

I'm referring to this:



I mean, the whole system is bigger for a reason. It is heaver for a reason. You cannot slam these internals into a PS4 and hope for the best. Everything is designed for precision, whether its a PS4 or an XB1 or any kind of mass manufactured electronic item.

$15 is a massive sum of money across multiple consoles. Microsoft dropped the Kinect port off the XB1 S. They then offered free adapters to Kinect owners who were upgrading to the S. Why would they do this? To save, I dunno, maybe a buck?

Sony dropped the audio optical port off the PS4 slim. They also removed the touch sensitive buttons. How much do you think they saved there? Pennies? Possibly so, given how old optical ports are.

Even if $15 is spot on accurate, which is definitely isn't, it would be a huge savings for something that they have actual data on whether consumers would actually utilize it or not.

It would have been nice if they included it, but it's more of a sign of how the UHD market is doing that they felt its omission would benefit them more than including it would have.

I wasn't trying to imply they could just drop the slim in the current box and call it a day. But adapting the enclosure as opposed to totally starting from scratch would save costs. How much? I don't know. I was trying to draw attention to different ways you can save money through prioritization. They figured that making it look distinct would attract more sales than not. And in that case I am certain they are right.

I mean hell I'd take a console in a Laserdisc sized box if it saved me $20 and lowered the likelihood of heat related failure. Nearly nobody else agrees with me, so they don't cater to me. Well the original Xbone is damn close to a laserdisc player size, but you know what I mean.

As far as the rest of what you said, I agree $15 isn't nothing. It's likely going to be millions and millions of dollars. I just don't think that short term savings is worth possibly torpedoing a nascent format that encourages cross pollination from bundles to comarketing between divisions as well as royalties and scaling of production.

When the PS5 comes out will it be worth it in additional costs to build drives for a format only or 2 major devices support? Especially when you have everything to gain across the company from that format being as widely supported as possible in the (admittedly) organically declining but still relevant physical market.

Put simply, I'd say Sony will spend a lot more in making BD-XL drives by themselves in limited quantities at high cost, when compared to spending a bit more today to ensure a robust ecosystem for a format they will be tied to unless the connectivity of the world changes at an astonish pace and consumers are willing to go all digital.

 

[Boss Man]

Enthusiasts have $1000 Nvidia cards and stand alone players with proper remote controls. Consoles are as mass market as mass market gets.

I have a 65" 4K TV and I like playing games on it from my couch and also not using a bunch of different devices. If I'm going to buy a console in the year 2016 and put it under my TV, it better play 4K because there's already one that does and it isn't expensive. Also, I don't own a 4K player yet because there aren't many movies out and I'm already used to my console being the device for that. I'm pretty sure I'm most 4K TV owners who buy consoles.

I play my PS4 every day, and I should be their target for the new PS4...but I'm totally uninterested.

 

[XanaviF30]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

Right? I'm okay with it not having a UHD Drive. I play games on my gaming console.

 

[Outrun]

Good for you but the math has been working out for them real good this generation and it will continue to do so.

The sun never sets huh?

 

[vpance]

Which seems like a bad place, IMHO.

A $199 PS4 Slim seems smarter than jumping half-assedly into 4K.

Yeah, it's in slightly bad spot for people like us, who absolutely wouldn't have minded paying an extra $50-100 for a few more features.

 

[platocplx]

Yeah...but how much of that revenue is from UHD blu-rays?

The PS4 Pro will still play DVDs and regular blu-rays. The formats that sell the most and make the most money.

Right. Like literally there are only 121 movies on the market.

Compared to thousands of blu ray movies lol. By the time its even close to mainstream we'll have a ps5.

 

[Skeletron]

I do not give a fuck. I haven't bought a film on disc since splurging on some Criterion Blu-rays 5 years ago.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

I don't remember MS excluding video games from their system?

Remember them excluding used video games and game sharing...

Always Online or No Offline Gaming.

Like I said, Hypocrisy.

People just like finding something to complain about.

 

[MADGAME]

How long are they expecting PS4P to last before PS5 is released? more than 4 years?

 

[e-gamer]

People claiming that users don't bother about movie in discs should consider that it's common (and healty in some way to industry) that every single blu-ray player must carrying the latest.

In this case, UHD are the latest. Didn't undertand why there isn't one on ps4 pro.

 

[clem84]

I don't understand this obsession with getting the 399 price tag. Just sell it for 429 and include a UHD drive. People are not going to pass up on a machine they really want for 30$ more.

 

[Toki767]

I do not give a fuck. I haven't bought a film on disc since splurging on some Criterion Blu-rays 5 years ago.

All the blu-rays I've bought (wanted to collect the Disney animated films) I haven't even watched.

 

[messiaen]

So you gon have a 4k with no internet... lol

Outside of cities like Los Angeles, internet that can handle a 4k stream is incredibly expensive. I'm lucky to live in a big city now, but back home 50mbps is around $85.

 

[Zoloft Sonic]

Ugh. For a "new" premium console to not include this stinks of managed obsolescence. We get it, you're saving it for the PS5. Kind of like how everyone else is now saving for a PC.

 

[ChouGoku]

Don't really care about 4k bluray but this made me laugh

 

[ultrazilla]

So I've been tweeting @Playstation and @yosp

So I invest thousands of $$$ into @Playstation with accessories, games and PSN but you can't spend $15 for a 4K Blu Ray drive in Pro? @yosp

Xbox Head Phil Spencer:

@XboxP3 Can't wait to own one of your systems that has a 4K Blu Ray drive! The competition seems to have become complacent. @yosp

Seriously folks-make your voices heard! This decision is downright stupid.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I don't understand this obsession with getting the 399 price tag. Just sell it for 429 and include a UHD drive. People are not going to pass up on a machine they really want for 30$ more.

They've obviously made what they feel is a calculated decision that selling for more than $399 would drive off more people than not including a UHD drive will. Are they right? No way to know yet, but this was something that was likely debated internally for quite awhile.

 

[Toki767]

Ugh. For a "new" premium console to not include this stinks of managed obsolescene. We get it, you're saving it for the PS5. Kind of like how everyone else is now saving for a PC.

I'm pretty sure UHD drives for PCs aren't even a thing.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Tell that to people with connections not fast enough to stream 4K content.

If they still have dial up/ DSL connection then the future is clearly not on there side.

 

[10k]

I'll be saving the $400 on not buying one, I hope the math works out for Sony

.

 

[Boss Man]

They've obviously made what they feel is a calculated decision that selling for more than $399 would drive off more people than not including a UHD drive will. Are they right? No way to know yet, but this was something that was likely debated internally for quite awhile.

I sincerely doubt that the price would have been different. The cost would have been.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

How long are they expecting PS4P to last before PS5 is released? more than 4 years?

You think Sony wont release a new console before 2020? I can see a PS5 being released in 2018.

 

[firelogic]

Even if the UHD drive was $1 more, when you consider the huge volume of units they'll be manufacturing, it adds up. It's ridiculous how ignorant people are. "Only $15 saved? Sony is cheap!" Seriously? If they sell 40 million Pros, that's $15*40 million units. Do the math and tell me you wouldn't do the same thing.

 

[quest]

If they still have dial up/ DSL connection then the future is clearly not on there side.

There is also data caps which make 4k streaming impossible for many in the US.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Even if the UHD drive was $1 more, when you consider the huge volume of units they'll be manufacturing, it adds up. It's ridiculous how ignorant people are. "Only $15 saved? Sony is cheap!" Seriously? If they sell 40 million Pros, that's $15*40 million units. Do the math and tell me you wouldn't do the same thing.

Not too many business minded mathematicians here just passionate gamers that want more TV options.

 

[Boss Man]

This console is great for for all of those 4K TV early adopters who aren't that interested in 4K.

 

[Zoloft Sonic]

I'm pretty sure UHD drives for PCs aren't even a thing.

Sure, but they will be eventually if you want one. It's been a cornerstone of the Playstation brand, that they also function as versatile and powerful media players. Pioneering DVD players, BR, etc. It's a really conspicuous absence from the Pro, all things considered.

 

[Nipo]

So why are UHD players $300 if a drive amounts to like $34?

Because the motherboard, case, cpu etc are the expensive part. All things the PS4 would have anyways.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

well if my memory serves me right, the Xbox 1 was the most anti consumer games console OF ALL TIME.

there's nothing anti consumer of sony not including uhd to the pro. i think your reaching real hard there.

 

[10k]

I like how this PS4 Pro reveal is so ironically opposite to the XB1 reveal :'D

XB1 Reveal:

TV TV SPORTS!!

Neogaf: "We want a Game Console!

PS4 Pro Reveal:

4K Gaming 4K Gaming HDR!

Neogaf: "We want UHD Player!

Oh, the hypocrisy

Reach for the sky.

 

[MADGAME]

You think Sony wont release a new console before 2020? I can see a PS5 being released in 2018.

No idea. I typically buy all the consoles but skipped the X1. With what will probably be a significant upgrade in hardware spec for the next Xbox iteration next year, I would tend to agree with you that Sony would release a proper successor to the PS4 sooner rather than later to remain competitive.

After today's even the value of the PS4P diminished for me, but would still consider purchasing one unless a PS5 is right around the corner.

 

[Toki767]

Sure, but they will be eventually if you want one. It's been a cornerstone of the Playstation brand, that they also function as versatile and powerful media players. Pioneering DVD players, BR, etc. It's a really conspicuous absence from the Pro, all things considered.

And when the PS5 is out, I imagine it'll probably include a 4K blu-ray player.

Microsoft doing a console revision that changes their drive to something else is not really a standard for most console revisions.

 

[farmerboy]

Yeah I'm stumped. Adding the drive is, like, a NO BRAINER.

From any angle this makes no sense.

 

[Sojgat]

There is also data caps which make 4k streaming impossible for many in the US.

Why would you live there?

#dealwithit

 

[LastOne2100]

Honestly of all the stuff to cut to hold the 399 line, I'm glad it was the UHD Blu-Ray Player.

Physical media is on its way out. Maybe not in the next couple years, but we're definitely seeing a shift that will not turn itself around. Bandwidth limitations are definitely an issues in some countries, but I think it's time we targeted our anger at the telecom companies for that, not at a gaming console for not containing a fallback...

I mean there are clearly a lot of people who care so much that they already must have a UHD blu-ray player for all the discs they own, so why do they need another?

 

[DR2K]

This isn't really that big of a deal for me. Like im fine with paying $15 less if it means a feature I will never use doesn't make it into the box. I can understand the frustrations for people that do still collect physical discs for movies. I haven't personally bought a physical movie in 7 years.

 

[SmoothBrain]

These 15$ might be the PS4 Pro's profit margin and 399 is better than 449. I also don't really consume Blu-Rays though.

 

[exmachina64]

They could've bumped PS+ price up $15 instead of $10 to cover it.

You're right, I'm sure they didn't consider that before deciding on a course of action.

 

[nillah]

What is UHD? I'm told it can still play physical DVDs, blue rays and physical ps4 games along with PS4k so what's the big deal?

 

[Haint]

It's not just 15 dollars/unit. It's more money in terms of qualifying the new drive for the system. Being able to re-use a similar component reduces development cost and cycle time. November launch reflects this.

LOLOK cycle time. Cause MS's didn't release a UHD console more than a month ago. What a stupid fucking post.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Nailed it.