Polygon: "After a Half-Hour with The Last Guardian, I'm Concerned"

silva1991 said:
True I'll give you that.

still gotta love Roach



And this person said a pretty much positive things about the most important aspect of the game for me



good/clever puzzles
good level design and environments
the relation ship between Trico and the boy
my mind getting blow away while going through the story and music

those are what I care about.
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I like Roach too. See the thing is, at least in Ico and SOTC (and I expect TLG) normal gameplay maxims are superseded by the greater requirements of the piece as a whole.

Thus Argo is given enough independence to feel like an actual animal separate from you, thus you control him in s manner where you feel you are controlling Wanda who is riding Argo. This is important because, while it might frustrate, thematically and emotively you need to be invested in Argo by the end sequence of the game for the narrative to work

Actually I'd say that's the key thing about ICO and SOTC (and probably TLG) - you don't play them for gameplay or traditional gaming satisfaction. You play them for the experience.

They're legitimately different from majority of games and as such evaluating them as straight up games is always going to be difficult.

It's odd though. Ico and SOTC were at best modest success although of course they grew to be critical and cultural darlings of the medium. I never would have expected a long thread or this much interest in TLG. I guess it's the long wait and its near mythical status but people should temper their approach. TLG is likely to be more like watching a film by an artistically distinct director like David Lynch than a generic summer blockbuster that's a very known quantity in approach and execution.
 
I won't defend shit controls, but I won't call them shit controls until I've played it myself.

Control feel is as subjective as it gets, so this guy's opinion really means nothing.
 
There was another preview where they said the controls felt snappier than Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, so I wonder how relative it will be.
 
Well, anyone would be concerned after waiting for over seven years, but purposely-jerky controls and Team Ico go hand-in-hand. We'll see if it clicks at launch.
 
ViewtifulJC said:
Creator intent can't even used as a universal barometer of something being "good" or "bad", either. Woody Allen was hugely disappointed in Annie Hall. "The film was supposed to be what happens in a guy’s mind, and you were supposed to see a stream of consciousness in his mind and I did the film and it was completely incoherent," Allen said. "Nobody understood anything that went on and the relationship between myself and Diane Keaton was all anyone cared about. That was not what I cared about." The film as it is was not his original intention, its nothing something he's happy with, in his mind its a failure.

Its also routinely hailed as one of the greatest films of all-time. And this wasn't a retroactive thing or something that happen over an extended period of time. The movie won four Oscars, including Best Picture over Star Wars in 1977.

If Ueda comes out tomorrow and says, "Actually, I wanted this game to be a football game with really tight controls and this game is a huge piece of shit. If you like this game, know you are objectively wrong", that aint gon mean shit.
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Nah, you're right! I'm not saying the creator intent HAS to be respected, but if the design can't match the creator's intention, then it doesn't work. For a game, that means that if the intention were to make the game feel like you're an awkward 12 years old but it ends up being unplayable because of the mechanics needed to make this possible, then it doesn't work.

But that's really interesting, all of this. Let's wait and find out how the game turns out. I'm actually excited for it, for all its potential fault.
 
I love the way the ICO games feel. Responsive but have the right amount of weighty momentum that needs to be considered. I can see why some people would confuse it for jank but it's done that way on purpose
 
EGM1966 said:
I
It's odd though. Ico and SOTC were at best modest success although of course they grew to be critical and cultural darlings of the medium. I never would have expected a long thread or this much interest in TLG. I guess it's the long wait and its near mythical status but people should temper their approach. TLG is likely to be more like watching a film by an artistically distinct director like David Lynch than a generic summer blockbuster that's a very known quantity in approach and execution.
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David Lynch? Maybe if the game was Killer 7 or Silent Hill: The Room.

TLG seems more like a Miyazaki film to me.
 
hatchx said:
David Lynch? Maybe if the game was Killer 7 or Silent Hill: The Room.

TLG seems more like a Miyazaki film to me.
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I believe he meant more in the sense of enjoying a work from a creator with a very distinct perhaps unconventional style, not in the literal sense of TLG being Lynchian in tone
 
GlamFM said:
Cool. It's been in development around 2007 for a good while until someone picked up the scraps recently and stitched together what was there for cheap.

It's still a 2007 game in its soul. With all the jank that comes with that.

Does not really make a difference.
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You're not even trying to hide it, are you?
 
hatchx said:
David Lynch? Maybe if the game was Killer 7 or Silent Hill: The Room.

TLG seems more like a Miyazaki film to me.
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Lol - yeah that's a better example. I love Lynch's stuff and tend to use him as an example of someone with a singular artistic approach. But he's not very "Team ICO".

Miyazaki is a great example though.

I'd love a Lynch version of everything just to see what it's like though.
 
Good!
Ico and Shadow of the Colossus are just like that and are amazing. If the controls are the same then it will be great.
 
There is a massive divide between people who want a modernized unification of controls across all of their games (x to jump, square to reload) and people who value unorthodox control schemes that require patience to learn (hop backwards one square, run - hold square, jump, immediately hold x to climb)

Some people want that easy accessibility, not everyone has or wants the time investment required to 'get used to the controls'. Personally, I find it rewarding to learn new controls unique to a particular game. Different gameplay styles sometimes require a shake up of the status quo, and I find it refreshing.
 
DoomGaze said:
That's because it started as a PS2 game.
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You're saying PS2 is to blame for horrible platforming? I'd say it's the opposite, there were some great platformers there. The complaint is about controls; nothing to do with visual fidelity which would be the only thing that should be affected with the transition.
 
Shredderi said:
Killzone franchise has some good lore and backstory but the stories presented in their games? I disagree hard here.

I'm not talking about the aesthetics. They're fine. I like the look of it visually.
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Since when lore and backstory are not part of the story?

If you were criticizing the story-telling aspects of GG's games I would have no issue with it. You can have a good story and be horrible at telling it. Its still a good story though.

But you were not saying that.

ScOULaris said:
Damn... you really feel that way about KZ2's story? It's a very common sentiment to criticize Killzone games for their lackluster plots and piss-poor writing. Most fans (myself included) feel that the lore propping up KZ's world is pretty interesting, but we just never get to experience much of it in the actual singleplayer campaigns. It's usually just a bunch of "hoo-rah" marine skirmishes.
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I think my first answer is also adequate here, too. Both of you basically said the same thing about my post and my opinion about Killzone's story
 
Mass_Pincup said:
I didn't bring it in this thread and I don't even have a particular dislike towards Polygon, but I don't agree with the notion that we can't view them as an entity.
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Well, what's the context of the discussion. If we have a discussion about the best video game site on the internet, obviously they're kind of a singular entity. I can't submit for your consideration only good stuff they publish while insisting that you ignore bad content they've published. It's all Polygon content.

But that said, it's lazy and counterproductive to act as though some bad piece of content they've published in the past automatically invalidates any current piece we might be discussing. Forget a site authored by a collective of individuals. Pretend that the Doom player had his own site where he authored all the content. Summarily dismissing any argument he'd currently be making by citing the Doom preview would just be a lazy ad hominem attack.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Well, what's the context of the discussion. If we have a discussion about the best video game site on the internet, obviously they're kind of a singular entity. I can't submit for your consideration only good stuff they publish while insisting that you ignore bad content they've published. It's all Polygon content.

But that said, it's lazy and counterproductive to act as though some bad piece of content they've published in the past automatically invalidates any current piece we might be discussing. Forget a site authored by a collective of individuals. Pretend that the Doom player had his own site where he authored all the content. Summarily dismissing any argument he'd currently be making by citing the Doom preview would just be a lazy ad hominem attack.
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I was responding to this:
Why do people treat Polygon as one entity instead of a group of like a dozen people with very different opinions and experiences? I don't get it.
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Your first paragraph actually align with what I said, I also never said that a bad piece content invalidates any other thing they publish, just that in my opinion even though it may have been play/written by one specific Polygon employee it's still a reflection of the company point of view.
 
SirNinja said:
We've just received word, GAF News can now confirm

oVT12Cj.jpg


More on this story as it develops. Back to you, Tom
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This is great.
 
I enjoyed the controls in Shadow of the Colossus, I'll deal with em here. I'm in this more for the atmosphere and puzzle solving than precision controls, which I reckon won't be super necessary for success in the game.
 
I'm sorry to everyone super excited but honestly despite the quality I think they need to just let this game release and out it behind them already. They've wastes too much time and resources on it and it'll never get to a point to make it worth the opportunity cost.
 
It's probably just because I don't like them, but that headline just screams of Polygon riling up emotions on a hotly anticipated game for clicks.
 
People are just gonna shit on this game because they either don't understand it or have way too high expectations. Can't we just all see that this game had a troubled development but will probably be a great game that we don't have to find perfect in order for it to shine?
 
Neiteio said:
I'm not sure that "the controls suck because they sucked 10 years ago" is the best defense
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Good job they didn't suck 10 years ago then (and still don't in fact if you play Ivo today).

They do put artistic intent ahead of pure control though which some just can't accept as being right for those particular games.
 
EGM1966 said:
Good job they didn't suck 10 years ago then (and still don't in fact if you play Ivo today).

They do put artistic intent ahead of pure control though which some just can't accept as being right for those particular games.
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What's that word? Subjectivity, I think?
 
LUCKY n WILD said:
People are just gonna shit on this game because they either don't understand it or have way too high expectations. Can't we just all see that this game had a troubled development but will probably be a great game that we don't have to find perfect in order for it to shine?
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You're right, and honestly it isn't just GAF because I've seen Kinda Funny continue to do this.
 
SirNinja said:
We've just received word, GAF News can now confirm

oVT12Cj.jpg


More on this story as it develops. Back to you, Tom
Click to expand...

This x1000.

Unfortunately I expect this to unfold onto the reviews for the final game come release as to properly appreciate the game you need to have played ICO and SoTC.

My expectations for The Last Guardian have always been "It's an early PS3 game made by Team ICO.", I'm just excited to finally be able to play it for myself.
 
Phil Kollar said:
For as much as The Last Guardian nails the broad feeling it's going for in this demo, it whiffs on the details. Specifically: It feels awkward as hell when it comes to actually controlling the main character. The protagonist doesn't walk so much as he lurches in whichever direction you've pushed the analog stick. Much of the demo focuses on platforming, but his jumps have a stickiness to them, a sense of inaccuracy that could be played up as realistic weightiness in the right game but just feels frustrating here.
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I-dont-believe-you.gif


The game looks fantastic. And I have read way too many "control sucks" opinion from people that can't seem to understand not all games of a similar genre need to have the same control scheme/feeling.
 
2+2=5 said:
Rose tinted glasses that many ps2 owners have.

I never had a ps2 but some years ago(not now) i played some ps2 hd remasters on ps3(ico collection, gow1 and some other) and despite the improvements imo they all felt old and clunky(that doesn't mean bad though), that "ps2" feel didn't help them at all.

I'm not saying that TLG is bad game, i didn't even try it, i'm just saying that you should be open to the possibility that not everyone will like the "ps2" feel, not everyone had a ps2.
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Despite owning it on the PS2, I didn't play Ico (for more than half an hour) until long after the PS3 collection released. So, unfortunately, your dismissive assumption simply doesn't apply. However, feel free to tell me what game you think is great so that I can arrogantly state why it is objectively inferior to all other games. This is fun. We're having fun.
 
I felt like the Witcher 3 didn't handle well at launch but apparently it was patched and fixed. Maybe the movement in TLG can be fixed?
 
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