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Disabled Father Killed by Police in Charlotte, NC (Protests Follow)

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Trojita said:
"I'm blacker than you'll ever be" is a new classic.
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blackyall.gif
 
wumster3000 said:
Even the good ones? That blanket statement. We as blacks should know about that blanket statement.

Am I saying this is right? Hell no, but I'm not going to say all of them because that's a Trump.
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Fuck the police and I say that as a black man who lives next to Chicago so I get to see the most corrupt police force in America do shit like this all the time.
 
Heaven Shard said:
But this is police training, it should be different, no? I hear a cop shooting to eliminate a threat, but not end a life. But if that shot is justified, the target may or may not die as a result. But I don't think police training is 'shoot to kill', nor should it be.

As for not firing first, even if it puts the officer at risk, I still believe in that. An officer volunteered for this job and being put in dangerous situations is is something a person signs up for. Danger is part of the job, and so you expect a cop to behave differently than a citizen using a gun for protection.


This is a completely moot and stupid point that doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. Are there people who seriously come to such discussions saying "not all people are bad" and other obvious nonsense? Of course not. We aren't talking about 'the good ones' (which I call fucking normal ones. You don't get a star for NOT killing somebody). There is a problem and it needs to be discussed. What the hell would such a stupid thing as saying 'not everyone is...' help?!

What is more infuriating is the stupid thing that some say "well, it is worse somewhere else". So because there is a more serious situation somewhere else this suddenly negate the horror that is happening over here?!

I don't understand the logical process that some people have.
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Great post
 
Randolph Freelander said:
Charlotte resident here. I just saw this on Twitter.

This is apparently the full statement from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, just to enter it into the public record.

https://twitter.com/DianneG/status/778414436511997952



Gracious, I hope this was captured on video.
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I like how none of that says whether or not the man they killed had a firearm or not. Just a lot of mealy-mouthed bullshit. Where did the book go? Not that it even matters here since he wasn't even who they were looking for.
 
VanWinkle said:
I want to ask for opinions about this without sounding like I'm taking an opposing side. I'm looking for understanding. Truth is, I haven't looked into police killings and stuff a lot. I also want to say I have absolutely zero bias toward the police, and hate hearing about these killings, particularly when it comes to it unnaturally leaning towards black people, in terms of adjusted population.

I was trying to look into this a little bit just now, and I saw that, since January 1, 2015, 1,502 people have been killed by police. I'm not seeing the amount of unarmed people total but 24 of them were black men and 18 were white men. My question is, with ~1,000,000 or so police officers total, wouldn't it be fair to say that the ones that have factually shown their racism in this form in the severe minority (meaning way less than 1%)? Of course, we also know that black people are 2.5 times as likely to be shot and killed by police than white people, but looking purely at numbers, I do find it hard to condemn the police as a whole. A lot of you guys have done way more research than me on this, so I look forward to learning from that perspective, perhaps on the reasoning beyond just killings.

I was also wanting to know if you guys believe that every time an unarmed black man is killed, it's a racial crime and whether you automatically treat it is racial, or if it's just more likely to be a result of racism. And the reason that I ask is because of that fact that unarmed white men also get killed by police.

Any articles would be cool, or just your opinions. I feel like I need to be more educated on this stuff.
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The thing you are missing is context to how fucked up police shootings are. In America there is est 10 percent black compared to 65-70 percent white. When you have more black people dying via police than white while the statsistics via us census are so different you have a huge problem.
 
Randolph Freelander said:
Charlotte resident here. I just saw this on Twitter.

This is apparently the full statement from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, just to enter it into the public record.

https://twitter.com/DianneG/status/778414436511997952

Gracious, I hope this was captured on video.
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So they're just going ahead and claiming the guy had a gun despite other reports saying it was a book?!

Fuck, man. What a waste. Fucking US cops need a complete shake-up. Change needs to go from the top down, and they obviously need much better training. And they shouldn't be protected by saying "I felt threatened" any time they fuck up and kill an innocent bystander.
 
Administrative leave? That's basically vacation isn't it?
No wonder they're killing people left and right, they get a month off work.

Jeez.

Is it that hard to have a simple rule where if you shoot an innocent person you lose your job, at the very least? I mean, you're giving people guns, the least you could do is give them some responsibility for their actions?
 
hey america, here is an idea.
how about putting your future cops through an actual proper training and education like even the worst 3rd world countries do?
maybe you can even sort out all the racist redneck shits who seem to slip through the cracks on regular base.

smh

Randolph Freelander said:
Police say he had a gun. Police say he posed a threat.

Unfortunately, we've learned that police say a lot of things. Which is why we all should hope whatever it was is on video.
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wasn't there even a case where officers actually put a gun next to the dead victim to make it look like he was armed?
 
Reading While Black can be added to the long list of executable offenses :(

The fucked up thing is that every time this happens there's a modicum of anger from the public, and then 3-6 months later the officers are cleared of all charges. Worst case scenario they get let go from their current office and find a new job or get a few hundred grand from racists on gofundme .

The system is rigged and will never change with the defense mechanisms in place.
 
Police officers shouldn't be so easily shaken. Even if it isn't malicious it's a type of irresponsibility that might as well be. Paranoia shouldn't be resulting in lives lost.
 
Alienous said:
Police officers shouldn't be so easily shaken. Even if it isn't malicious it's a type of irresponsibility that might as well be. Paranoia shouldn't be resulting in lives lost.
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Indeed.

Too many innocent lives are being lost. Police will claim anything looks like a gun and shoot first. I thought second ammendment let people have guns?
 
Yagharek said:
Indeed.

Too many innocent lives are being lost. Police will claim anything looks like a gun and shoot first. I thought second ammendment let people have guns?
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And open carry laws make it legal to take them mostly anywhere. But it seems those laws are only for certain people. If you don't fit the criteria, you die.
 
iamaustrian said:
wasn't there even a case where officers actually put a gun next to the dead victim to make it look like he was armed?
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I believe you're thinking of Walter Scott. The cops story was that Scott took his taser so he feared for his life and had to shoot him. Afterwards he dropped his taser near Scott's body and picked it back up. What he didn't know is that someone was filming a large chunk of the altercation that showed his story was bullshit and that Scott was actually running away from him when he was shot. The guy filming it also said that Scott never tried to go for the officers taser.
 
I still don't quite understand why cops in the USA:

a) Pull their damn guns out in every damn scenario possible
b) Actually shoot to kill instead of leg/arm immobilization shots (and no, these are not impossible; the legs in particular are often very exposed and somewhat safer to aim at in most cases)
c) Suffer no god-damn real consequences from taking someone's life without any real reason.

It's such a strange concept to me, I honestly cannot grasp it. Is every cop there trained to be afraid of anyone not white? Is that it? Or are they trained to shoot to kill at the sign of any minimal verbal or physical resistance? The 1500's were sometime ago guys, there is no need to actually kill people if they aren't actively trying to kill you (like in this particular case).

Honestly, at this point I feel it actually makes no difference as to why they do it. They simply shouldn't. The US, as a country, cannot possibly allow this go on much longer. It seems to be creating a very real social and racial divide, which I'm guessing has the possibility of ending badly.

Of course my perspective is from the outside looking in, so perhaps the issue is already far more severe than what I perceive it to be (or less so).
 
Alienous said:
Police officers shouldn't be so easily shaken. Even if it isn't malicious it's a type of irresponsibility that might as well be. Paranoia shouldn't be resulting in lives lost.
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Well, as I mentioned in a thread about an incident where a civilian was shot by a cop on a training range (where targets pop up and cops have to decide to shoot or not shoot), I think the trouble is that they view everyone as potential dangers, not citizens.

They really think that people are just waiting out there to pop out and shoot them if they aren't quick on the trigger themselves. .They are always thinking "Should I shoot this person?" and when that person is black, the leeway for "no, don't shoot them" is much less.

They need to stop acting like they are in combat zones. Yes, sometimes police get killed. But so do cab drivers. So do store clerks.

And this can happen at any time, any time police have an interaction with people. I am reminded of that kid who answered the door with the Wii controller in his hand and was gunned down. A cop could knock at your door any time and if you are holding anything, you could be killed the moment you answer the door. Because they always think someone is out to get them. But it's us that should be paranoid. They can kill and face no sanction for it.
 
border said:
So what would the most appropriate punishment for the officer be?
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Whatever the usual sentence for a racially motivated execution would be.


It won't be that, but anything less than manslaughter (or the US equivalent) should be an outrage, and even that's being extremely generous.
 
RocknRola said:
I still don't quite understand why cops in the USA:

b) Actually shoot to kill instead of leg/arm immobilization shots (and no, these are not impossible; the legs in particular are often very exposed and somewhat safer to aim at in most cases).
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I agree with your a and c points, but B continues to be an uninformed perspective that ignores reality. Arms are really difficult to track and hit; legs move more slowly than arms but are still difficult to hit, and they leave the assailant's arms free to shoot; shooting a leg is also not an assured way to *just* wound someone, as they are somewhat likely to bleed out in minutes if you hit one of several arteries; and finally, in reality it's rather difficult, especially in high stress situations, to hit a target -- make that target an arm or a leg instead of the center mass, and it is darn near impossible.

But again, I agree with a) and c)
 
Isn't this the second person this week to be shot AFTER being tasered? Like, wtf? Isn't the person incapacitated after being tasered thus not a threat?
 
I don't know what to say other than giving these cops time off with pay is fucking gross. They kill someone, yet still get time off with pay. That doesn't sit right with me. They should lose their badge. I'm sick of the excuses they use "I fear for my life, or he is going for a gun", when both are lies.

I know all cops aren't bad, but we see this shit a lot, so a good portion of them are.
 
crisdecuba said:
I agree with your a and c points, but B continues to be an uninformed perspective that ignores reality. Arms are really difficult to track and hit; legs move more slowly than arms but are still difficult to hit, and they leave the assailant's arms free to shoot; shooting a leg is also not an assured way to *just* wound someone, as they are somewhat likely to bleed out in minutes if you hit one of several arteries; and finally, in reality it's rather difficult, especially in high stress situations, to hit a target -- make that target an arm or a leg instead of the center mass, and it is darn near impossible.

But again, I agree with a) and c)
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Unless you're a terrorist who set off multiple bombs and shot two police officers, then they can shoot you in the leg.
 
Crisco said:
Unless you're a terrorist who set off multiple bombs and shot two police officers, then they can shoot you in the leg.
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in before "Terrorists must be caught alive to give us important information".
so yeah, when you look at the whole picture the police values a terrorist life more than citizen life
 
Crisco said:
Unless you're a terrorist who set off multiple bombs and shot two police officers, then they can shoot you in the leg.
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iamaustrian said:
in before "Terrorists must be caught alive to give us important information".
so yeah, when you look at the whole picture the police values a terrorist life more than citizen life
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? They were trying to shoot him (Rahami) center mass (as they are trained to do) and managed to hit him in the leg and shoulder. Because again, even if you're shooting for the largest, slowest moving part of the body it's harder to hit your target than it looks.

But again, only talking about the specific point re: "shoot to wound" -- the event that this thread is focused on is horrible and I hope criminal charges are brought against the officer. And more broadly I believe there is an large issue with racial bias and police abuse of power that continues to go unchecked. (I add this to be clear in terms of where I stand and to reinforce I'm only talking about the shoot to wound point from earlier).
 
RocknRola said:
b) Actually shoot to kill instead of leg/arm immobilization shots (and no, these are not impossible; the legs in particular are often very exposed and somewhat safer to aim at in most cases)
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The problem with this is that a gun should never be used unless there is imminent threat to the life of the cop. If a cop can strategically aim at the legs then that proves there was not actually imminent threat to the life of that cop and thus the gun should not be used. There is also a large risk of missing when aiming non-center mass, and that risk of missing basically means you're not guaranteed to stop the imminent threat... which means what you're shooting at isn't actually an imminent threat to you.
 
RDreamer said:
The problem with this is that a gun should never be used unless there is imminent threat to the life of the cop. If a cop can strategically aim at the legs then that proves there was not actually imminent threat to the life of that cop and thus the gun should not be used. There is also a large risk of missing when aiming non-center mass, and that risk of missing basically means you're not guaranteed to stop the imminent threat... which means what you're shooting at isn't actually an imminent threat to you.
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Good point.
 
Vermillion said:
Why are our cops so scared all the time?
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Their training. I really believe that the attitude ingrained into these police during training is what is behind a lot of these incidents.
 
This is the song that doesn't end
Yes, it goes on and on my friend
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they'll continue singing it forever just because...
This is the song that doesn't end
Yes, it goes on and on my friend
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was
And they'll continue singing it forever just because...


-sighs-

border said:
So what would the most appropriate punishment for the officer be?
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That depends, the officer will probably get paid sick leave or paid vacation. Paid something as long s they're not at work. God knows justice or at the least immediate termination without compensation is too much to ask for.
 
RDreamer said:
The problem with this is that a gun should never be used unless there is imminent threat to the life of the cop. If a cop can strategically aim at the legs then that proves there was not actually imminent threat to the life of that cop and thus the gun should not be used. There is also a large risk of missing when aiming non-center mass, and that risk of missing basically means you're not guaranteed to stop the imminent threat... which means what you're shooting at isn't actually an imminent threat to you.
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I mean, I agree. Guns should be the last solution 100% of the time, but unfortunately that does not seem to the case at all in the US. However with fleeing suspects, especially those on foot, trying to hit the legs with a gun (if they truly must use it instead of other alternatives) seems far more likely to not result in a death than shooting them in the torso.

I mean, this dude was reading a book in his car. How the heck does that escalate to a murder by a cop (which is the proper name for this)? Why do so many situations that can 100% be solved with non-violent solutions escalate to murder by cops? Especially so if the suspect(s) happens to be not white? What kind of training do these people receive? Why do they act like they are on a sort of warzone 24/7 in which everyone is gunning for them?

I honestly cannot grasp how these sort of situations can happen, I truly cannot. Much less so when they are almost a daily activity....

There is something terribly wrong with the police force over there.
 
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