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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
Specialmias
Member
The real series twist -- the NEXT logo:
series finale shot is Ash coming out of the milk dip
aahahahahah
I'd shit myself with glee.
I don't think this works great on long formats, hoping that your audience is going to revisit the whole season to get the "full" experience.
About the studies of Arnold, Hopkins says "We abandoned the approach. The only vestiges that remain are the voice commands we use to control them."
They use these voice commands all the time, and "These violent delights have violent ends" is one of them, put in by Arnold to unlock the virus.
Something was off, "I'm not afraid", then he shoots at point-blank range and none of the bad guys flinched. When it happened I wondered if they were guests.
He's a newbie, the MiB knows the effects of the bullets. And maybe he found a leather renforced jacket as an item in one of the side quests
The real series twist -- the NEXT logo:
series finale shot is Ash coming out of the milk dip
Well you could say that Person of Interest is sort of a prequel to Terminator (which is not), so this idea isn't that far fetched.
They wipe that memory when they being them into home base. Bernards convos with her when she is clothed appear to be happening in some secret room under/in the park. Not sure how he is going there and getting her to go there without any mgmt catching on.
I think when they are naked and being analyzed, they are in some kind of diagnostic mode, and probably have records/memories of previous diagnostic sessions but only when they are in that mode. Once they are out of diagnostic mode they have no access to those records/memories. And if they did somehow access those records, it would probably manifest as a "nightmare" that they dismiss, as was discussed in a previous episode.
Now, the conversations that Bernard is having with Dolores seem to be a bit different than that, in that she is carrying over stuff they talk about into her "normal" life like the book, and personal details about Bernard, but there's probably still some safeguard preventing her from comprehending that she is leaving her reality and entering some lab setting. And I think Dolores just knows that it's in her best interest to keep this stuff to herself in order to further her own ideals and goals, with her new found self awareness and ability to lie.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, the in-universe answer is that they don't "think" anything - they're computers in a fleshy shell and don't have access to the interactions they have with staff outside of their operating universe. Whether that is true or whether Dolores has any other independent thoughts is basically the core-mystery of this season (or maybe the whole show) since the treatment the hosts receive is horrific if you consider them to be more than mere objects.
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Yes, but I think dolores is more prepared (by bernard sessions) to handle this, that is why she is not locking up or going psycho. Bernard seems invested in making himself a "real" boy to replace his son, not sure what Ford is hoping accomplish yet with his changes to behavior and narrative, I think he wants to make a better illusion for guests but is not quite on board with creating "life" just very lifelike. Probably because he remembers the robots waking up and killing his partner
Make it so.The real series twist -- the NEXT logo:
series finale shot is Ash coming out of the milk dip
Damn, don't know why but I was expecting this to be a single season kind of deal. Makes getting very invested seem a little dumb right now seeing as that HBO is about to shut down its services here in the Netherlands.
More_Badass
Member
Even online? What about HBO Now/GO?
Rastafarian42
Member
The ending was crazy last night
Anyone think, Benard telling Delores to turn on improvisational mode made her ignore her code to kill ? I don't remember him turning that mode back off after their talk.
Cornballer
Member
Marti, per IMDB. Not sure if it was mentioned in the episode, but I don't remember anyone saying her name.
Specialmias
Member
Aside from what others have said I think there's a strong emphasis in the first episode that this is a "dream state"
Cheers, it is a bit annoying to have recurring characters and never mention their name.
nah, as far as i can tell, improvisation is built into their AI. it's always on. he just turned off the scripted speeches she normally makes because she was about go to into one which forced her to go through pure improv.
Inceptional
Member
Really? I thought it was pretty damn good, much better than baby Stark in Civil War.
So my theory is that William's asshole buddy is the one who bites it in a bad way. It will be the event that they mentioned happened "30 years ago" and will give William a lifetime pass where he can do what he wants.
William is the MiB and I feel the whole point of Ed Harris saying to her "let's go back to the beginning" and him terrorizing her all the time is because he has a hate for her for being involved in douchebag's death but also a deep love for her and maybe realizes she's not the real one to blame, hence his mission to "beat the game."
I also predict that some of the "overlords", like Bernard, will turn out to be even more advanced A.I.s. I swear, Hopkins looks at everyone like he knows he's the only real one there.
I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the series "Westworld" turns out to be the entire world, with A.I.s controlling everything and Westworld being almost like a matrix type deal, with A.I.s observing us just like the overlords observe Westworld. And that should feed into the whole conspiracy involving the company and their true intentions.
Discotheque
Banned
Lmao Livia da gawd is the worst I've ever seen. Fantastic episode that included that shit tho.
Runner ups for most garbage cgi face tech is the stuff I saw in captain america 1 and 2. Really sloppy implementation.
I think if they delve into a little more backstory for Arnold it will have to be with minimal Ford due to them being stuck with that young cgi Hopkins in the past now. Or who knows. Maybe Ford is misleading Jeffrey Wright by placing all the blame on his former partner.
Inceptional
Member
Yea I don't know why Marvel insists on throwing a CGI face in every movie they do, especially when it looks like shit. I still have nightmares about Old Sharon from Winter Soldier. Did their make-up artist get hit by a car the day they shot that scene?
Acerac
Banned
Geez, I wonder how this premise goes on for 5 seasons. Not that I'm complaining, I've loved what we've seen thusfar, I just hope it can maintain momentum.
This is strangely exactly how I feel too. I would also add that Logan is his brother in law, as he mentioned William being married to his sister. His dying could dramatically alter Willams real life back home. Adding more reason for his 30 years of "visits" to Dolores.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I don't trust Ford to be a reliable narrator. The fact that "Arnold" was conveniently deleted from existence by the corporation, and Ford has the only existing photograph of him makes me suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if Arnold was scapegoat for something Ford tried to do. Ford for example is going in hard on the hosts not being true AI and the entire effort to create consciousness being misguided. I don't believe that is his real point of view, yet.
What if Ford is the true believer, and Arnold the skeptic who might have gotten in his way? Hell, Ford may have killed him and made it look like an early accident.
What if Ford is the true believer, and Arnold the skeptic who might have gotten in his way? Hell, Ford may have killed him and made it look like an early accident.
They scrubbed him from the company's history for a reason. And we know Ford is scheming and was the source of the reveries. He makes a scene about the hosts modesty , but obviously cares deeply for the hosts. He is the reason for them being stored after decommission instead of junked. Ford is definitely up to some shit.
More_Badass
Member
What If the critical failure was deliberately orchestrated by Ford as a smokescreen and opportunity to kill Arnold?
Kadayi
Banned
Good news I guess. One just hopes that there's enough complexity in terms of plot to sustain it. They have obviously worked on the overarching narrative, but they're still going to have to create a lot in terms of a per season basis. The premise gives them a lot of scope to bring in new characters, though, both in terms of new hosts, as well as guests.
All of their services, even the online ones. HBO's dutch service is partly owned by my provider, Ziggo, and they've already said they're looking to at least bring Game of Thrones to dutch viewers in some way. They haven't said how though. I'm not sure if other HBO shows will get the same treatment.
Are people really that desperate for big dramatic twists and playing internet detective that they're still running with this William = MiB theory despite last nights episode?
Just think about it, what would be the point of that reveal and how would it contribute anything to the main story and the characters in it
Just think about it, what would be the point of that reveal and how would it contribute anything to the main story and the characters in it
Awesome last 10 minutes, but a lot of the other stuff really bores me to tears.The pacing between semi-philosophical blabbering among the people running the park intercut with dull Western stuff is already wearing on me tempo-wise.
Steven Ogg is always great, and I really like Jimmi Simpson.
Steven Ogg is always great, and I really like Jimmi Simpson.
More_Badass
Member
1) We get to see two sides of the machine's growing consciousness: rebellion (the critical failure) and rebirth (this current evolution). That works nice dramatically and tonally
2) It could explore the backstory of Ford, Arnold, and the Man In Black.
3) We'd get more history about the park
4) The show gets to have its cake and eat it too: chaos and death a la the original movie, and the more philosophical take on the AI evolution
Robot Pants
Member
Definitely on the same path.
Tragic life. Incredibly curious about AI consciousness
eh... they have never really said what the critical failure was. I doubt it was an organized rebellion, it seems more along the lines of the host getting stuck in the ravine.
I think they went haywire last time, it doesn't make sense that 30 years ago they would be advanced enough to fully become self aware. Even most in the current (only) timeline just break down or go psychotic, only Dolores is shown to be actually becoming self aware (with Bernards help)...
Ford mentions they started hearing their own thoughts but believed it was "god", similar to schizophrenics.
Maintenance
Member
Can't wait until she's dodging bullets like Neo.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Alternatively it's a fake out to make people think that. Definitely does not flat out kill it though.
It's really clear what the show is about: Dolores and other hosts evolving and the fallout from that. None of the things you mention are connected to that. Who cares what hosts or the park were like 30 years ago
This. If the alt timeline is this season's twist, if you can even call it that, it's a dumb fucking twist that does nothing to drive the plot forward. Just accept that the end of ep 3 basically killed the alt timeline theory. If something happens in the next episode that makes it pretty obvious its an alt timeline sure be back on board with that theory, but right now it's like a 5% chance that's what's happening.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Who cares? I dunno... the show? Why else bring it up in this episode.
There is more though because he makes sure to tell her to stick to the daily loops even as she is now free to adapt.
Background detail and character motivation. They're drawing a parallel between the hosts being motivated by programmed history and Bernard with his son, Ford and his partner/accident and MiB and whatever happened to him
It's a small backstory at this point. If william is also just backstory it's basically half the show at this point.
I'm far more interested in the Delores Bernard storyline than a hypothetical 3rd timeline, and would prefer if william is in that same timeline. I think most people watching the show would agree and aren't even aware of this alt timeline theory that people are talking about on forums.
A very small percentage of the people watching the show are speculating on william being in an alt timeline and would just be like what? Why? And to me that essentially boils down to bad writing. You do have to think about your audience if you're writing a tv show if you want it to be successful.
It's clearly set up for william eventually interacting with mib. If the alt timeline theory is true I would hope for the payoff to be better than william = mib, or worse, this is just some 3rd timeline for more background exposition.
I'm sure they will go into the background of mib, but it doesn't need to me dragged out for more than an episode imo.
More_Badass
Member
All in the execution. You're trying to make it seem like this impossible-to-grasp concept and bad writing because you don't like the idea.
The show has clearly been seeding plot points about the past, from the critical failure to the MiB's history to literal flashbacks in this episode and the fallout between Ford and Arnold to Dolores being the original/oldest in the park
All you have to do is match-cut between William and the MIB and people will understand they're related/the same character.
If the flashback theory is true, the show literally does it in this episode (let's go back to beginning, cut to William)
Charles Brandon
Member
I'm still onboard the flashback train
My reasons: the story of William and his pal is very similar to the story of the movie, it feels to me like a way for the show to acknowledge the movie and bring it into the show. William is present at the first disaster and survives. But what happens next?
In William's time, Thandie Newton does not seem to be the Madam, she is never seen. The other hooer seems much more assertive and Madam like. Remember "she's played that role before". People talk about how Dolores and Teddy have been playing the same roles for 30 years...so what? No one said that everyone has to switch around.
The logo stuff and the stuff about the different methods of building the robots.
The end of that last episode is a spanner, no doubt about it but that scene was weird. It was framed as this duh duh duuuuuuuuh momentous development, like they knew how it would be interpreted by us nerds. But really, it proves nothing. Dolores timeline is all fucked up in how it is presented. What happened to the gun? When did that happen? Was she remembering the gun? Is that why it disappeared? If so, then the gun was in the past.
Another problem though is that if there was a big disaster in the past, why doesn't anybody seem to know about it? Wouldn't the guests worry about it? Not sure how to reconcile that.
Talking more widely about the themes of the show, the point of it seems to me not to be about "what happens when AI goes wrong" but "at what point do we respect AI as living consciousness". Ford says they don't feel anything but what we tell them to feel. But we know that isn't true, right? We know Dolores has gone beyond that at least (at some point).
I also expect to discover that some of the staff (perhaps all of them?) are also hosts. They just don't know it. Barnard in particular.
My reasons: the story of William and his pal is very similar to the story of the movie, it feels to me like a way for the show to acknowledge the movie and bring it into the show. William is present at the first disaster and survives. But what happens next?
In William's time, Thandie Newton does not seem to be the Madam, she is never seen. The other hooer seems much more assertive and Madam like. Remember "she's played that role before". People talk about how Dolores and Teddy have been playing the same roles for 30 years...so what? No one said that everyone has to switch around.
The logo stuff and the stuff about the different methods of building the robots.
The end of that last episode is a spanner, no doubt about it but that scene was weird. It was framed as this duh duh duuuuuuuuh momentous development, like they knew how it would be interpreted by us nerds. But really, it proves nothing. Dolores timeline is all fucked up in how it is presented. What happened to the gun? When did that happen? Was she remembering the gun? Is that why it disappeared? If so, then the gun was in the past.
Another problem though is that if there was a big disaster in the past, why doesn't anybody seem to know about it? Wouldn't the guests worry about it? Not sure how to reconcile that.
Talking more widely about the themes of the show, the point of it seems to me not to be about "what happens when AI goes wrong" but "at what point do we respect AI as living consciousness". Ford says they don't feel anything but what we tell them to feel. But we know that isn't true, right? We know Dolores has gone beyond that at least (at some point).
I also expect to discover that some of the staff (perhaps all of them?) are also hosts. They just don't know it. Barnard in particular.
Maintenance
Member
The theory might be 100% bollocks, but the reasoning some of you are using is even worse.
"People at home are not even noticing", I mean, c'mon. Saying that the timeline theory is false because of proof that something happened and they are in the same one is fine, but what I mentioned is just baffling.
Game of Thrones season 6 major spoiler:
"People at home are not even noticing", I mean, c'mon. Saying that the timeline theory is false because of proof that something happened and they are in the same one is fine, but what I mentioned is just baffling.
Game of Thrones season 6 major spoiler:
I don't recall the director having to spell out that R+L=J
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I liked the young Anthony Hopkins CGI 
You must not know Jonathan Nolan. He (and other writers) planned 7 seasons for Person of Interest, they only got to make 5, but the series never felt drawn out.
And considering they're on HBO and can go 100% serialized, we'll probably have pretty good material in the future.
You must not know Jonathan Nolan. He (and other writers) planned 7 seasons for Person of Interest, they only got to make 5, but the series never felt drawn out.
And considering they're on HBO and can go 100% serialized, we'll probably have pretty good material in the future.