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[ZOONAMI]

All in the execution. You're trying to make it seem like this impossible-to-grasp concept and bad writing because you don't like the idea.

The show has clearly been seeding plot points about the past, from the critical failure to the MiB's history to literal flashbacks in this episode and the fallout between Ford and Arnold to Dolores being the original/oldest in the park

All you have to do is match-cut between William and the MIB and people will understand they're related and the same character. The show literally does in this episode (let's go back to beginning, cut to William)

Or that's just a transition? And doesn't mean mib=william. The end of the episode is way heavier on the scale that mib isn't william than that cut to william. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't rule it out, but comes pretty damn close.

And everything you are saying is true, but I think they are just developing the backstory and the critical failure and mib origins will obviously come to light, but that doesn't mean mib has to be william. I know you are open to that not being the case, and I'm open to it being the case, and yeah if I like it or not depends on how they execute it.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I liked the young Anthony Hopkins CGI

Yeah I thought it was totally passable. Not anything amazing as they kept him super still, but whatevs, it's TV budget on a show that is already super expensive.

 

[darkwing-buck]

I liked the young Anthony Hopkins CGI

Lol I thought it was pretty good as well. Obviously it wasn't perfect but I thought it was fine. Now young tony stark on the other hand..

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Had the weirdest lucid dream, all I could think about was Westworld, and running away from Agent Smith like dudes trying to fix me. I wondered if I was sleep walking in real life but didn't want to get out of the free ride where I couldn't die, no matter how odd my body may be behaving. The mind is a crazy thing, real time world building, and I remembered it all.

 

[Flo_Evans]

^ I'm not sure if this is proven or just current brain theory but I believe your dreams are the mind cataloging and reviewing memories, you just created some new neural pathways and should have most of the show stored in easily recallable locations.

So where do you fall on the William story is in the past debate?

It will be kind of hilarious if they never meet and they never "reveal" he is MiB or whoever. Seems like a Nolan thing to do...

 

[~Kinggi~]

I think the convo activity in this thread pretty much confirms wonderful things for HBO yet again.

 

[Geist-]

Great episode as always, pretty much the only show on right now that I eagerly anticipate every week.

So, it seems to me that Ford is lying to Bernard about Arnold so he stops asking questions and also as a warning about Bernard's seeming sympathy towards to the hosts (I'm guessing Ford just notices some small things, not sure if he knows about Delores completely). Arnold is either Ed Harris' character or someone different who is actively sabotaging some of the hosts.

Or maybe they're going the "Arnold put his consciousness into a robot/made a robotic duplicate with his personality" route. Regardless of how they do it, seems pretty obvious Arnold isn't gone.

 

[Androidsleeps]

Okay, this episode lessened my excitement a bit, I feel like it had some boring parts and some great ones, but overall I am confused because the possibilities of where Westworld would head seem endless. Hope it grips me back next week.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

The conversations between Ford and Bernard are one of the best parts of this show. You get that clash of philosophies and worldviews while also learning more bits and pieces of the overall plot.

I hope we get more parts like the twisted conversation between Ford and Abernathy. The facial tics from Abernathy that made him seem much more robotic combined with that hint of vengeance surfacing in his words really gave me the chills.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Lol I thought it was pretty good as well. Obviously it wasn't perfect but I thought it was fine. Now young tony stark on the other hand..

The thing that saved Young Stark is that that in itself was a simulation within the movie, so it was a bit more forgivable as it could be justified by its own slight limitations of what Stark made himself.

 

[The Technomancer]

New theory I saw on Twitter that I don't know how I feel about but is as credible as anything else right now: not only is the scene at the end with William a flashback, so is the scene in the barn where she shoots the guy. Evidence? The gun she finds in the dirt and hides in the drawer in the present looks like an aged version of the gun she shoots the barn guy with

 

[Kayhan]

Oh my God, they killed Teddy!

 

[BarringGaffner]

The thing that saved Young Stark is that that in itself was a simulation within the movie, so it was a bit more forgivable as it could be justified by its own slight limitations of what Stark made himself.

nah it was terrible. You realize that it's a hologram AFTER you already think it's terrible.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Just watched the last. My tinfoil theory is Bernard is a host. The way he interacted with the boss and and that last sentence of "your child's death is weighing on you" felt too much like a command rather than an observation. Then the call where the memories came to him much like how the gunslinger dude was given memories of Wyatt.

 

[Makai]

New theory I saw on Twitter that I don't know how I feel about but is as credible as anything else right now: not only is the scene at the end with William a flashback, so is the scene in the barn where she shoots the guy. Evidence? The gun she finds in the dirt and hides in the drawer in the present looks like an aged version of the gun she shoots the barn guy with

She sees MIB though. So the whole thing is a flashback while she's getting assaulted by him?

 

[Makai]

Series finale name:

Spoiler

The Bicameral Mind

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

She sees MIB though. So the whole thing is a flashback while she's getting assaulted by him?

We don't know if he actually assaulted her.


Also when Dolores is talking about getting away, she mentions the same clues as the child did about the "maze."

 

[duckroll]

New theory I saw on Twitter that I don't know how I feel about but is as credible as anything else right now: not only is the scene at the end with William a flashback, so is the scene in the barn where she shoots the guy. Evidence? The gun she finds in the dirt and hides in the drawer in the present looks like an aged version of the gun she shoots the barn guy with

But when she arrives at the barn, the dead father is the replacement (ex-bartender), not the original one. If there is time fuckery going on, it seems more likely a case of Dolores no longer being a reliable narrator. That her memories and her reality have become so confused that what we see might not really be happening. That doesn't make for very compelling storytelling when dragged out, so there should be some clarification soon.

 

[The Technomancer]

But when she arrives at the barn, the dead father is the replacement (ex-bartender), not the original one. If there is time fuckery going on, it seems more likely a case of Dolores no longer being a reliable narrator. That her memories and her reality have become so confused that what we see might not really be happening. That doesn't make for very compelling storytelling when dragged out, so there should be some clarification soon.

Yeah I agree

 

[Makai]

We don't know if he actually assaulted her.


Also when Dolores is talking about getting away, she mentions the same clues as the child did about the "maze."

well, the important part is that he's THERE, which would mean she's flashing back to that while he's there.

 

[hokahey]

Finally watched episode 3. Absolutely incredible. How quickly we've come to feel for the hosts.

 

[duckroll]

Series finale name:

Spoiler

The Bicameral Mind

And it's 91 minutes long. Woo.

 

[Discotheque]

And it's 91 minutes long. Woo.

glorious.

 

[Makai]

And it's 91 minutes long. Woo.

woah

 

[Makai]

But when she arrives at the barn, the dead father is the replacement (ex-bartender), not the original one. If there is time fuckery going on, it seems more likely a case of Dolores no longer being a reliable narrator. That her memories and her reality have become so confused that what we see might not really be happening. That doesn't make for very compelling storytelling when dragged out, so there should be some clarification soon.

Yeah, I think that stuff is definitely in the future. The parts that would be in the distant past if any is the campfire and the memories of getting shot.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

And it's 91 minutes long. Woo.

Oh boy.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

And it's 91 minutes long. Woo.

Who's directing it?

 

[More_Badass]

Who's directing it?

Nolan. He also directed the pilot.

Vincenzo Natali directs the next episode, so I'm expecting some sick unsettling visuals

 

[newtypepilot]

Had the weirdest lucid dream, all I could think about was Westworld, and running away from Agent Smith like dudes trying to fix me. I wondered if I was sleep walking in real life but didn't want to get out of the free ride where I couldn't die, no matter how odd my body may be behaving. The mind is a crazy thing, real time world building, and I remembered it all.

Stray host detected in GAF forum. We need to recall him for maintenance.

Spoiler

These violent delights have violent ends

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Nolan. He also directed the pilot.

Vincenzo Natali directs the next episode, so I'm expecting some sick unsettling visuals

Aw yisss. Nolan has proved a quite capable director. I hope to see him more in the director's chair soon.

Natali has quite the track record. Nice to see strong directors in the series.

 

[DorkLord54]

It's obvious that William=MiB because it's clear that William died ages ago, and the MiB is the same one from LOST, so he's taking on his appearance to escape the park once and for all because it's really on the Island.

 

[Burt]

Gonna be hard to top the no-flinch-neck-spurt-decapitation-attempt and subsequent self-cranium-bashing

But maybe with this Wyatt storyline, they're about to veer into some of that real Bone Tomahawk stuff

RIP Teddy

knowing his luck, he definitely got taken alive by the totally-not-Wendols-from-that-other-Crichton-joint-13th-Warrior

 

[StopMakingSense]

MiB is in the far future where the hosts took over the world and Westworld is now populated by human clones that they replace with new clones every time they die.

 

[duckroll]

Nolan. He also directed the pilot.

Vincenzo Natali directs the next episode, so I'm expecting some sick unsettling visuals

Brubaker co-wrote the next episode. Better hide all your women. I'm worried for that female guest in the hills. And I'm worried for Dolores. Very worried.

 

[captjohnboyd]

Sort of off topic but it's been bugging me that any time Nolan speaks there is literally no discernible accent yet his brother speaks like he's, you know, British. Also he was talking about living on a farm in the post ep clip. Um what?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Sort of off topic but it's been bugging me that any time Nolan speaks there is literally no discernible accent yet his brother speaks like he's, you know, British. Also he was talking about living on a farm in the post ep clip. Um what?

Their family moved to America/Chicago when they were minors and they were 6 years apart. Makes sense the 6 years younger brother wouldn't have as much/any accent. Also stayed in America for college whereas Chris when back to London.

Wikipedia: 'Jonathan found that having an English accent was very unpopular after moving to Chicago, so he learned to "sound like a good Chicago kid."'

 

[captjohnboyd]

Their family moved to America/Chicago when they were minors and they were 6 years apart. Makes sense the 6 years younger brother wouldn't have as much/any accent. Also stayed in America for college whereas Chris when back to London.

Wikipedia: 'Jonathan found that having an English accent was very unpopular after moving to Chicago, so he learned to "sound like a good Chicago kid."'

Yes! Finally I know. I have no idea why I never thought to google it

 

[duckroll]

Figures Chris Nolan sticks to his guns while Jon Nolan was the populist pandering sell-out!

I kid...

 

[nhlducks35]

I just noticed the set designer is Nathan Crowley

He worked with Chris Nolan on all his movies (including Dunkirk)

 

[NoPiece]

I liked the young Anthony Hopkins CGI

You must not know Jonathan Nolan. He (and other writers) planned 7 seasons for Person of Interest, they only got to make 5, but the series never felt drawn out.

And considering they're on HBO and can go 100% serialized, we'll probably have pretty good material in the future.

Is Person of Interest worth watching? I'm a fan of Jonathan Nolan's film writing, and loving Westworld so far, but know absolutely nothing about Person of Interest.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Is Person of Interest worth watching? I'm a fan of Jonathan Nolan's film writing, and loving Westworld so far, but know absolutely nothing about Person of Interest.

I just started watching PoI but man the first three episodes are so "CBS" if you know what I mean.

 

[MoeDabs]

Is Person of Interest worth watching? I'm a fan of Jonathan Nolan's film writing, and loving Westworld so far, but know absolutely nothing about Person of Interest.

I'm 9 episodes in and it's just a well done procedural, Caveziel seems off but maybe that's on purpose.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

RE: the MiB is William theory

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/16/westworld-interview-3-stray

During this EW interview Jonathan Nolan is discussing the park's location and the communication to and from the park, he mentions:

"In episode 2, when the guests come in, we don’t see this, but we assume these guys have cell phones that they’re not allowed to bring in the park."

He's talking about William and his friend here. I know this may not mean anything, they could've had cell phones 30 years ago, but may point towards William's storyline not being a flashback.

 

[duckroll]

He's talking about William and his friend here. I know this may not mean anything, they could've had cell phones 30 years ago, but may point towards William's storyline not being a flashback.

Why would it mean anything? Westworld takes place in the far future, not today.

 

[MoeDabs]

RE: the MiB is William theory

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/16/westworld-interview-3-stray

During this EW interview Jonathan Nolan is discussing the park's location and the communication to and from the park, he mentions:

"In episode 2, when the guests come in, we don’t see this, but we assume these guys have cell phones that they’re not allowed to bring in the park."

He's talking about William and his friend here. I know this may not mean anything, they could've had cell phones 30 years ago, but may point towards William's storyline not being a flashback.

I'm sure they had cellphones at that point.

Why would it mean anything? Westworld takes place in the far future, not today.

.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I've had a cell phone for 20 years and this is 2016.

Actually 22 years.

 

[caliph95]

I just started watching PoI but man the first three episodes are so "CBS" if you know what I mean.

I'm 9 episodes in and it's just a well done procedural, Caveziel seems off but maybe that's on purpose.

The first Season is the weakest season by far and only gets really good around the end. It's a lot better after the second season.

 

[Makai]

Alternate tech tree where they develop wifi and holographic tablets before cellular phones.

 

[Rentahamster]

Alternate tech tree where they develop wifi and holographic tablets before cellular phones.

That's how I tech in Civ5.

 

[Trouble]

I bet all you people buying the William == MiB theory bought in to Cleganebowl too.