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[FF Seraphim]

Is this a sequel or prequel?

We have no clue what the game is actually about. Most of us are assuming it is a prequel? Who knows. We literally know nothing other then the platforms it will be released on.

 

[calder]

By all means feel free to continue the discussion, but I'd personally at least give them until the trailer before hanging them at The Hague over the representation in the game.

Like we don't even know if you play as all seven characters, or if they're representatives of your initial outlaw gang that could grow and change over the title.

No fucking kidding.

I mean, I understand that people are reacting to what they see right now, but what they see right now is basically nothing.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Shame the PS2 game had more diverse protagonists

 

[vg260]

it doesn't. some people just like to get upset and offended.

Wanting more diversity has nothing to do with getting upset and offended. You shouldn't write off all criticism in that way.

I'm interested in the game regardless, but I also want video games to lose the stigma (and often practice) of being an exclusionary-feeling boys hobby (even if the demographics don't agree) based on the typical conventions. The larger and more diverse the audience that feels welcome playing these games that reflect on the medium as a whole, the better for the medium. This is a huge game in terms of the potential audience it reaches. Having more diverse characters in a highly visible game like this can help in that regard, so it's of particular interest here.

 

[GravityInsanity]

Cyberpunk 2077 isn't coming out in 2017.

I got it. Multiple people have told me now.

 

[Xumbrega]

I think none of these will be playable characters, the main protagonist story will collide at some point with them or maybe you control a rival gang/a sheriff and we finally will know how the gang was dismantled.

I'm excited as fuck.

 

[Acquiescence]

Shame the PS2 game had more diverse protagonists

Who are the protagonists of Red Dead Redemption 2?

 

[Nzyme32]

It is when you are disregarding all the other preferences, hence me italicizing "needs".

The original comment was that he wasn't sure that he could wait for 2020 for a PC version. The next guy says "why not get it on console". His answer is it needs mouse and keyboard - that's not a high horse, that's a genuine preference for some. Heck I'm on that boat but with the Steam Controller for mouse aim. He didn't proclaim all other options and preferences are wrong or something more obtuse

What an arrogant view point.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.

There would be less need for outrage if there were less ignorantly dismissive attitudes like yours.

 

[shandy706]

while I understand that it still was eventually on the platform, I hope PC players dont get neglected for this game like the previous Red Dead. It was a fantastic game.

If I had been ONLY a PC gamer, I would have bought a 360 just to play RDR by now. I mean, come on guys..$100 could have got you RDR and a used console.

We're sticking $800 GPUs in our system, play one of the greatest games ever made.

I do hope RDR2 comes to PC ASAP though. I'll at least double dip.

 

[cr0w]

Check it out



Bruh, that's terrible! Spirited Away is excellent in it's own way, but Bebop is completely different. You can easily just pick up and watch and episode at a time wince they are all pretty condensed stories like a sitcom. Pretty cool stuff.

I'll give it a shot. Like I said though, it's more of a cartoon thing in general for me, which is odd because I don't have the same problem with video games. For instance, I fucking loved Ni No Kuni. One of my favorite games.

I think the only cartoon I've ever seriously gotten into was C.O.P.S., which is rather embarrassing to admit.

 

[TheStruggler]

Are you one of these ESDF people?

generally I hate keyboards for movement because the keys are to close to each other and it cramps my hands, I use an analogue for movement.

 

[Loxley]

I'm curious if that's Dutch's gang or if it's a completely unrelated group. The guy on the far left of the image looks like he could be Marston. Maybe of of'em is a young Landon Ricketts? That'd be pretty cool. Can't wait to see the trailer.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.

I like how the ending of the last three rockstar games have been incredibly similar et people are trying to argue that the story is so important that presenting yet another whitewashed version of the old west is just too important to give up. As if it not only wouldn't be more creative to put minorities at the forefront, but also more of an accurate representation instead of the status quo. Sorry that we're making you think about representation, would you say, remember when games were about fun?

Why are people bitching about "lack of diversity" first of all, you haven't even seen the game or what role women will play in the game yet, you are making assumptions based on a poster, second of all, the western era was not known for diversity whatsoever, if anything, it was a very sexist time period, thirdly, not everything that doesn't include women in leading roles means it is a "lack of diversity" has anyone here ever heard of creative choices?

You know what, fuck the bolded. At this point maintaining the status quo isn't even creative. It's creatively bankrupt. A third of the cowboy population was black and there were many black people working during the era.

People always looking to be fucking offended by something.

It's more like art is always subject to critique.

Also why can't it be an all male cast the same way it would be ok to be an all female cast? I don't understand why that is even an issue, people just want to fucking scream at the top of their lungs about how unjust everything is these days, deal with it, it's Rockstars choice what they want in this game, the new Mass Effect game is leading with a female role based on what I have seen (which I personally am happy about as I always played as female Shepard) but for this game in particular maybe it's not a good fit? Why does it always have to be about sexism?

Because a)an all male cast would be completely unrepresentative of the era. You don't understand why it isn't an issue because you're part of the target audience that doesn't understand what it's like to be shafted in terms of representation, so much so, that you accept whitewashed depictions of reality as legitimate history.

 

[etta]

Wondering about a Scorpio bundle, would that even actually be a thing? PS4 Pro doesn't launch with any bundles, right? Neither Xbox One nor PS4 launched with any bundles. Wouldn't it be unprecedented for Scorpio to come with a game out of the gate?

The original comment was that he wasn't sure that he could wait for 2020 for a PC version. The next guy says "why not get it on console". His answer is it needs mouse and keyboard - that's not a high horse, that's a genuine preference for some. Heck I'm on that boat but with the Steam Controller for mouse aim. He didn't proclaim all other options and preferences are wrong or something more obtuse

What an arrogant view point.

Then you don't understand what "needs" means.
If the game needs a mkb, is it unplayable with a controller?

 

[Kralamoonard]

I feel that the same old arguments are being circled around diversity like "historical accuracy" or "artistic vision" and "let them do what they want" or "I don't care" are just such fallacies...like do people not know by now that all those arguments don't necessarily mean that people can't have a discussion about diversity in games. Why are people trying to shut down that discussion so eagerly, as if it annoys them so easily?

Having said that though, specifically regarding this game, I'd wait until the trailer on Thursday before people get too angry, it's perhaps a bit too premature to starting putting up the pitchforks, but even that aside, I keep seeing the same straw man arguments being circled around. Ok some of you don't care, but that doesn't mean there's no discussion to be had. Why does this never happen with other topics?

 

[TheStruggler]

If I had been ONLY a PC gamer, I would have bought a 360 just to play RDR by now. I mean, come on guys..$100 could have got you RDR and a used console.

We're sticking $800 GPUs in our system, play one of the greatest games ever made.

I do hope RDR2 comes to PC ASAP though. I'll at least double dip.

have a feeling muhc like GTAV it will come a year later, hopefully. I have a ps4 I just feel for PC gamers robbed of games like this.

 

[Dany]

Not surprised that the people on the cover are all dudes and seemingly white.

Very curious if we'll play more than one protagonist.

 

[JetSetRadio]

YESSSSS

I do hope they're further along than when they announced GTAV.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Thank you. I'm tired of gender garbage trashing every single new game thread

wow

 

[optimus8936]

I don't get why people can't wait for the trailer.

They see seven dudes on the horizon and assume those are the only characters in the game and are just assuming there are no female characters.

 

[Simo]

while I understand that it still was eventually on the platform, I hope PC players dont get neglected for this game like the previous Red Dead. It was a fantastic game.

You won't. They'll likely have it out spring 2018 so that falls within a new fiscal year for both them and Rockstar.

 

[Chris1]

Wondering about a Scorpio bundle, would that even actually be a thing? PS4 Pro doesn't launch with any bundles, right? Neither Xbox One nor PS4 launched with any bundles. Wouldn't it be unprecedented for Scorpio to come with a game out of the gate?

Scorpio will come with a game I think, even the S did. But PS4 will probably have marketing for RDR2 due to Rockstar & Sony's history. My guess would be Halo 3 Anniversary.

If MS gets marketing rights with an official bundle around Scorpio launch though? That's gonna sell like hotcakes.

 

[Gator86]

Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.

And by outrage, you obviously mean the Gaf definition of "opinions I don't share." Adults are more than capable of discussing what they hope the game does and their concerns/worries about the final product. If seeing things you don't agree with are threatening enough that you need to classify them as outrage, perhaps you're the one who needs to step back. People aren't just hammering away at the keyboard, frothing at the mouth, screaming racism over and over.

 

[Alucrid]

I don't get why people can't wait for the trailer.

They see seven dudes on the horizon and assume those are the only characters in the game and are just assuming there are no female characters.

yep, that's right. there's only 7 characters in all of RDR2.

 

[War Eagle]

if it's another growling white dude protagonist i probably won't even bother

.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Who are the protagonists of Red Dead Redemption 2?

John Wayne as Genghis Khan, I think.

 

[diaspora]

it doesn't. some people just like to get upset and offended.

You sound triggered.

Why are people bitching about "lack of diversity" first of all, you haven't even seen the game or what role women will play in the game yet, you are making assumptions based on a poster, second of all, the western era was not known for diversity whatsoever, if anything, it was a very sexist time period, thirdly, not everything that doesn't include women in leading roles means it is a "lack of diversity" has anyone here ever heard of creative choices?

People always looking to be fucking offended by something.

The bigger concerns here for me at least are 1.Why is the PC version being delayed/not announced? The only reasonable explanation would be that they want people to double dip or exclusivity which I am pretty pissed about because PC gamers have supported GTA V extremely well and whilst I love my PS4 I would prefer the play the PC version day one for obvious reasons (graphics, frame rate, resolution.)

My other concern is how there are numerous people in the poster, does this mean we are going to get 6-7 lead roles? Are they going the way of how all the modern westerns have? Like QT's latest movie the hateful eight etc?

Also, how big a role is online going to play? I assume a massive role considering how much money they made with V and will it impact the single player experience?

These are all valid concerns, diversity is also a valid concern (allowing for male/female in online for example like GTA V) but let's not jump on the silly train here and get offended because Rockstar MAY have chosen to not have a female in a leading role because of creative decisions in regard to the time period this is set in.

Also why can't it be an all male cast the same way it would be ok to be an all female cast? I don't understand why that is even an issue, people just want to fucking scream at the top of their lungs about how unjust everything is these days, deal with it, it's Rockstars choice what they want in this game, the new Mass Effect game is leading with a female role based on what I have seen (which I personally am happy about as I always played as female Shepard) but for this game in particular maybe it's not a good fit? Why does it always have to be about sexism?

You sound pretty upset. Has this discussion offended or triggered you? Do you need someone to talk to about this?

 

[valkillmore]

Because the game needs to be played with this:

PS4 is getting mouse/keyboard support.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I feel that the same old arguments are being circled around diversity like "historical accuracy" or "artistic vision" and "let them do what they want" or "I don't care" are just such fallacies...like do people not know by now that all those arguments don't mean that people can't have a discussion about diversity in games. Why are we trying to shut that down so eagerly?

Having said that though, specifically regarding this game, I'd wait until the trailer on Thursday before people get too angry.

Because it's ruining their Hype or whatever.

 

[Dangansona]

I like how the ending of the last three rockstar games have been incredibly similar et people are trying to argue that the story is so important that presenting yet another whitewashed version of the old west is just too important to give up. As if it not only wouldn't be more creative to put minorities at the forefront, but also more of an accurate representation instead of the status quo.

I don't disagree with you that I think it could make a more interesting story. But the quality isn't important, it's their story.

Ultimately I think this is a discussion worth having when the game comes out but when I said I'm getting tired of the outrage it's because this a promotional poster that means nothing at the moment.

 

[FloweryMarston]

Are people replying to ninjablade? I've never seen him move his position in any discussion, even if his opinion is heavily flawed

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

"Zero excuse"... So you're saying that someone creating a piece of art literally doesn't have the right to deliver their own vision? Obviously you're not referring to any actual legal requirements as there are none, so you must be saying there is some kind of universal moral imperative that any creator must obey regardless of what they actually feel like making?

I cannot stand this kind of entitled attitude. "How dare anyone create something that doesn't prescribe to my particular sensibilities!" Here's the thing: you can absolutely be disappointed if it's not what you wanted. Everyone has preferences, and you should absolutely tell a company that you are interested in (your preferred experience here). They might even do that at some point. But there is a difference between saying "I'm super disappointed this doesn't have a female protagonist! I would have really liked that" and "Fuck you dev you slimy racist bastards how dare you make the game you want and not the one I want!". That's the problem. The complaint is always that it's wrong that they didn't make what you wanted, which is the definition of entitlement.

This angers me because I want to have the freedom to make what I want to make. I don't want to be yelled at because I told a story that was on my heart, but it wasn't exactly what someone else would have created. The greatest works of art come from creators expressing their visions, because it's a story they have to tell, a picture they have to paint, music they have to write.

There is a TON of media that doesn't interest me. Things like the Saw movies disgust me. I think the world would probably be better off without that, so should I campaign to have those banned? Should I form an oversight committee to govern the direction of a sequel so that it's something I want? Or should I leave the creative direction to the people who actually wanted that to begin with?

Rockstar committed a grave sin here by releasing a picture that only has men in it, which means this is clearly going to be a horrible sexist game, right? So I'm curious. Would you go back in time and complain about Seven Samurai because the leads are men? I mean, that's seven lead characters and they are all men. That's bad, right? And yet, for some reason, as summarized by Wikipedia:



It almost seems like it might have actually been a good movie with a good story despite starring only men. How about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? Some of the greatest, most influential works of fiction in history, and they predominantly star men. Do you know why? Because these are the stories and the characters that the creators wanted to create.

Here's the truth: there are a lot of video games, that feature all manner of characters. Are there not as many representing what you are looking for? Here's an idea. Don't demand a creator change their vision to match yours. Instead of bitching about it, go make the game you want. That's what I'm doing. I will enjoy what media I enjoy, and will add what I think is missing.

You seek to be missing some context. First, if a story is well written it doesn't matter what the protagonist's gender is. If you look closely at Redemption how much would really change if Abigail was the protagonist and not John? Not much at all.

As well, I do believe that producers of mass media have a moral obligation to be agents of change, especially with how influential media is on shaping the image of self. When pressed on why one of three protagonists of GTAV was not a woman Rockstar gave an excuse about "masculinity". That was a cop-out. You ask about Seven Samurai, a Japanese film made in 1954. Do you not think culture has changed over the last 62 years? The Middle Earth saga is even older. How can you use either of them as arguments in your favor?

A "creator's vision" isn't an excuse or a shield for criticism and backlash for ignoring the changes in culture and society. If the only woman in a story is used as an object (fridged, bait, evil seductress, what have you) is there no actual problem there because "creator's vision"? If there are seven player characters in a game and none of them are women, why is that excused by "creator's vision"?

As for the "go make it yourself" line, that's just bullshit. Creators all of the time adjust to criticisms and the changing cultural and societal norms and mores. Rockstar is still seemingly behind the curve on this, why is it wrong to call them out for it?

 

[Nowise10]

Wow. 7 fucking white guys as a video game. Who could have seen that coming?

smh Rockstar not buying your damn game. So sick of this crap

 

[optimus8936]

yep, that's right. there's only 7 characters in all of RDR2.

Do you have proof of this other than that picture which means nothing?

 

[Regginator]

Why don't you go by Red Dead Redemption?

Waiting for it to hit $10 in the upcoming Steam winter sale

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Man, I'm excited about this. Red Dead Redemption is one of my favorite games of all time. Definitely my favorite from last gen.

I'm digging the potential "Magnificent Seven" vibe I'm getting from that poster.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

That was also the case in RDR as well tho. Particularly over the other Rockstar games

It would be nice to bump their presence up more in the plot tho if we're not gonna be playing as them

I was speaking more on gangster movies with that post, considering we don't know anything about RDR2.

And hell, GTA3's antagonist was female. Elizabeta in GTAIV was a fun character. It's not like Rockstar's never had major female roles, but on the whole.....

 

[cr0w]

And by outrage, you obviously mean the Gaf definition of "opinions I don't share." Adults are more than capable of discussing what they hope the game does and their concerns/worries about the final product. If seeing things you don't agree with are threatening enough that you need to classify them as outrage, perhaps you're the one who needs to step back. People aren't just hammering away at the keyboard, frothing at the mouth, screaming racism over and over.

Pretty much.

There's also the option, shocking I know, to simply not engage in a conversation you're 'tired of'.

 

[90TilInfinity]

Totally agreed. I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup (of which we have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN REPRESENTS) but what bums me out isn't that they aren't there but the idea that when creating RDR2 Rockstar would have to go down a checklist so we can allow them to make their story.

I'm just getting tired of the outrage every week.

I think it would be cool if there was a native American and a woman in this lineup

Would this sentence on it's own count as outrage?

 

[IllumiNate]

PS4 has the marketing deal for this game.PS4 is listed before Xbox 1 on the poster so going by what history tells us..

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I don't get why people can't wait for the trailer.

They see seven dudes on the horizon and assume those are the only characters in the game and are just assuming there are no female characters.

It's perfectly OK to have a discussion about what's in front of us.

 

[NHale]

So they announced Fall 2017. 12 months from now so there is barely any shot this is making Fall 2017. I'm already preparing myself for Spring 2018 at the earliest.

Oh, I definitely agree, that's a pie in the sky type of scenario for MS. But that bundle is definitely going to happen I believe...they would be stupid not to.

Unless of course Sony got the marketing deal like it was heavily rumored at E3.

PS4 has the marketing deal for this game.PS4 is listed before Xbox 1 on the poster so going by what history tells us..

That doesn't mean anything. Also Rockstar doesn't like to align with a publisher too soon into the hype building machine. They will keep it platform agnostic until release date closes in (like next E3, we will definitely see where it shows up and maybe some special consoles bundles get announced).

For all accounts Rockstar was pleased how Sony treated them with GTA V release, but I doubt that means anything.

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

If it turns out that this is the game we need to take down and we get a diverse cast I'm quoting each and every single post arguing against diversity in historical settings. Seriously debating whether or not an entirely seperate topic should be made to educate these dudes about history since they seem to take history lessons solely from whitewashed media. ಠ_ಠ

What I gather from this is they use this as a crutch but likely their real feelings are as blatant as sexist. "Women don't belong." What type of grown man really puts up that much of a fuss that its just so completely "unrealistic" to see women being tough and men accepting these women into their boys club when history dictates otherwise? Boggles my mind.

 

[Piccoro]

Because the game needs to be played with this:

Say no more, fam. PS4 has got you covered!
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/accessories/tac-pro-for-playstation-4/

 

[Heckler456]

I like how the ending of the last three rockstar games have been incredibly similar et people are trying to argue that the story is so important that presenting yet another whitewashed version of the old west is just too important to give up. As if it not only wouldn't be more creative to put minorities at the forefront, but also more of an accurate representation instead of the status quo.

What you're missing is the fact that more than likely, most of the people who complain about people wanting to discuss or call out the lack of diversity don't really care about the "integrity of the story" or anything like that to begin with, but are rather simply annoyed that other people care about different things than they do. Most of the people who basically complain about the complaining are doing so out of a feeling that those people are whiny, and are trying to tell Rockstar what they should or shouldn't do, which isn't really the case.

 

[Lord Phol]

Jesus there's no info out yet besides a poster and people are already outraged and making assumptions. Whatever, just glad to have another RDR game in the making.

 

[Jito]

Trust you guys to flip your shit over a poster.

Pretty disappointed in the name, could have come up with something to fit with the naming of the other 2 games.

 

[Joeku]

I don't disagree with you that I think it could make a more interesting story. But the quality isn't important, it's their story.

Ultimately I think this is a discussion worth having when the game comes out but when I said I'm getting tired of the outrage it's because this a promotional poster that means nothing at the moment.

Yes, let's not discuss what information is available. Just take it at face value for now.

Oh, wait.

 

[SomTervo]

Thank you. I'm tired of gender garbage trashing every single new game thread

cool

it's not like "gender garbage" is a bigly issue or anything

Trust you guys to flip your shit over a poster.

Pretty disappointed in the name, could have come up with something to fit with the naming of the other 2 games.

I felt the same but someone pointed out that if it relates directly to Dutch's crew then Redemption 2 does sort of make sense more than another Red Dead Derivation.

That said, I wonder whose redemption this game will focus on.