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Red Dead Redemption 2 (Fall 2017, PS4/XB1, Trailer 10/20 @ 11 AM EST) announced
- Thread starter GlamFM
- Start date
kopitarrulez_11
Member
I had the same response
Yes those are clearly related and the same.
basically
You are conflating criticism of available information with offense, which in turn makes you the truly offended party. That's all. You're ironically talking down towards other people's issues with what little we know.
optimus8936
Banned
This. Or at least until we see a trailer. As far as I'm concerned, we don't know shit about this game. That poster could have nothing to do with the game other than there are seven cowboys but they have nothing to do with the game.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
Hopefully the trailer is meaty enough to tide us over until next freaking year.
I agree that RDR is more nuanced than GTA, but disagree with the claim that isn't just as much about masculinity. John Marsten is essentially a bad man who is struggling to transform himself into a good man, and is ultimately finding that it may be impossible for him to do so. The relationship with Bonnie is very interesting, as his relationship with his wife and son. Marsten is in many ways a courteous guy and gentleman, he and Bonnie have a very respectful and interesting rapport, yet we know underneath that he is a man who has done extraordinary amounts of evil. It's not necesarilly an "endorsement" of any kind of particular masculinity, it is an examination of it. GTA does this too, it just uses a sledgehammer where RDR uses a scalpel.
Yeah, you women and people of color have all 4 of those games, two of which are made by the same developer, and a franchise that has difficulties even getting localized in the West. You have your share, now let the white people have theirs, okay?
Thornton Reed
Member
We've got a saturated image with no context and people are boycotting the game already, i find it crazy.
For all we know they might be 7 shit heads you need to hunt down throughout the game and they aren't playable at all
illmatic22
Banned
Sad to see that some are really opposed to diversity. Not that it's surprising.
Vital Tundra
Member
Wait no PC same day??? Are they seriously going to pull a fucking GTAV again? Fuck off Rockstar.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
People love discussion, it seems you don't. Is it too hard for you? Or do you classify any sort of discussion that makes you think as "outrage." There's no outrage coming from anyone besides the people frothing at the mouth to provide the following excuses that are so old that we have a bingo board for it.
-historical accuracy
-artistic integrity
-they should make their own games
-don't like it don't buy it
-remember when games were about fun
-that's just the way it is
-outrage culture
and a whole slew of other age old excuses that have been refuted to hell and back.
Any thread on representation, in a nutshell.
Aces&Eights
Member
My two cents:
There are different forms of art. There is art that is made by an artist with one sole purpose: To be art. It sits somewhere on a wall or in a park and it is something from the artists mind that represents whatever he or she wants it to be.
Then, you have sellable art. This is the type or art like music, video games, movies, etd in which the end goal is to sell these piece of art to mass consumers at a price and to make as much money as possible.
The former can be provocative, based not in reality, obtuse, a reflection of the workd in the eyes of its creator or perhaps be seen as a different thing by different people all together. This, it's very purpose, is why an artist makes a piece.
The latter is a form of art actually created towards the majority of minds on the potential consumers. Men and women sitting in an office going, let's make this thing and lets run some tests on what versions will sell the best. So they do just that. Focus groups, testing, surveys, it is all compiled to produce an algorithm that tells the artists (and they money overlords) what will sell best. With that information in hand, the money overlords tell the hired artists to make their vision,just make it within certain bounds.
This is where we get to wear we are today with representation of anything other than the white male protagonist, unfortunately. Multimillion dollar publishers have lots of data that tell them what will get their highest ROI and that is what they aim to do. Bitching on twitter and GAF is a valid place to speak your displeasure but until it hits the publishers where it really matters which is in the pocketbook, then no real progress in diversity will be seen.
Want more women, minorities, LGBT, different body types in games? Stop buying games that have white, muscular, straight males who often run into scantily glad skinny women who have a overuse of sexuality to make their way though the game.
in reality rockstar always has the chance to redeem itself through dlc after launch so outrage should be kept in check until the goty edition launches a year after.
Audioboxer
Member
Actually you would expect the biggest pool of debating/criticism and discussion to come from anything that is "the most anticipated x of all time". Expect every RDR2 topic till released to be 100 pages of discussion my friend. I mean mods might want at least some of these incoming topics to focus more on the OP, such as if it's a trailer, but many RDR2 topics will be catch-alls for opinions.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I have a feeling it will be a very short teaser leaving us wanting more
with a meatier one at PSX
optimus8936
Banned
I get that.
I'm just saying people are taking this a little too seriously when we don't know really anything at all.
Acquiescence
Member
You might want to wait until the trailer sheds light on who the protagonist or protagonists actually are before complaining about a lack of diversity. A poster isn't much to go on.
they're all black
letmetrythisname
Member
I wonder if Rockstar themselves are planning to respond to the diversity whining. That should be interesting.
Pretty much. Always reduced to "bitching".
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
i think this will feature marston and the old gang he was in which explains the 7 people who we'll probably get to play as. so it will be set before the events of Redemption making it a prequel. I know it's called Redemption 2 but just because it's the second game in that story doesn't mean it has to be set after it.
Native American i think.
It's probably gonna be a cinematics trailer. Rockstar don't do CG, but it's probably too early for a gameplay trailer, and I don't think they would've started with a gameplay trailer anyway.
As a creator, this sort of post is just so disappointing. You have a bigger responsibility than just 'tell the story you want to'. That's not how it works.
Did GTA5 end up getting delayed? I don't think it did.
I'm...torn if I think this will get delayed or not. It's a sequel/prequel, meaning it might re-use characters and areas most likely. Might make things easier. It's also 11-13 months out at this point, presumably.
I'm still really excited for it, but man, I really thought a PC version would happen this time. I guess an Xbone is in my future...
I'm...torn if I think this will get delayed or not. It's a sequel/prequel, meaning it might re-use characters and areas most likely. Might make things easier. It's also 11-13 months out at this point, presumably.
I'm still really excited for it, but man, I really thought a PC version would happen this time. I guess an Xbone is in my future...
What's ever better than the people triggered/outraged at people trying to have a discussion on inclusion are those trying to come up with excuses as to why the cast is mostly white and all male. Stop making excuses, the west had women, and the west and people of colour. Rockstar doesn't need an excuse for having the cast they have and telling the story they tell; if it's the story they want to write and it's the characters they want to write, that's all there is to it, making excuses is stupid.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Must be nice to not have any empathy at all for the underrepresented. Some of us have wives and daughters and want them to be able to see themselves equally represented in media.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
So, prequel I take it and the PC version six months later?
Red Dead Redemption ended in 1914. When cars came around, there was much more law and order, tourism and business in the West, so that 'outlaw' culture kind of went away with it.
Setting this before Red Dead Redemption allows them to use more of the 'cowboy' culture and inspire themselves from historical event happening in the late 19th century and early 20th.
If the rumored map is true, we'll be exploring more of the East and Central United States.
Well, we can, right now, only go by what we have: and that is Rockstar's track record (bad) and the teaser image. You think if they had an important female character with some actual agency, they WOULDN'T put her on the teaser image?
We'll know more after the trailer, but at that point, the game's still not out for over a year, so when would be a better time to ask Rockstar to consider including a prominent female character? post-release? or post-announcement? ... i think doing it right now is probably the most opportune moment.
haha, no but you see, it's angry, and somewhat eloquently written - so people will keep quoting it.
But just you wait, if Rockstar dared making RDR in 'cinematic' 24fps, how much people would respect their 'vision'
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I don't know how to feel about this game yet.
Discotheque
Banned
Might be native actually. Now that I'm looking at it the face kind of reminds me of that guy from last of the mohicans and avatar
Kssio_Aug
Member
That's both great and disappointing news.
Loved RD Redemption and was expecting a new title, however:
1) I'd rather a new story and totally new characters.
2) If you can play with these 7 characters, it's silly not to add some miscegenation there. I mean, 7 white guys? I find it hard to believe it was necessary.
3) PC ignored AGAIN? WTF...
Loved RD Redemption and was expecting a new title, however:
1) I'd rather a new story and totally new characters.
2) If you can play with these 7 characters, it's silly not to add some miscegenation there. I mean, 7 white guys? I find it hard to believe it was necessary.
3) PC ignored AGAIN? WTF...
aliasad1998
Member
This is all so sudden. And I love it
Gender/sexuality and race play huge parts in today's world, feeding into people's preconceived ideas of you, which in turn affect how you are treated - so yes, I think having a character's gender will sometimes change the story. And there were specific story beats in Red Dead regarding John as a father, that would be very different if Abigail was the protagonist.
As for your other points,i agree diversity is important (we are getting there!). But you seem to be addressing treatment of race and gender in games rather than inclusion (which I agree with). Problem is when you start arguing for story specific games to include a particular type of character things get tricky... Movies are allowed an all white cast, an all female cast and all black casts, so why do we hold games up to a different candle? Holding Rockstar's portfolio up to this candle, completely fine (I really enjoyed your second paragraph) - but I think when you start doing this with specific games you do in fact cross the "creator's vision" line. Games should be praised for minority inclusion when they do it, but not every game needs to, just like not every game needs white characters
Audioboxer
Member
Not a chance. Rockstar are very insular with public feedback. I think it's partly because of all the strings involved in running the company, hence my posts in this topic around finances and diversity. They are arguably the biggest games developer on the planet, seeing as Valve are happy giving that title up and not producing games anymore. So the internal cogs will have hands on internally from all different people, most of whom will not want public PR interacting with criticism.
jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
What exactly is wrong with this again?
So why do you and the previous poster assume things based on what is in the picture present? Is it a "Yay hype train / nay snipe train" thing"?
Talk about a subject or don't. That's it.
And nobody is honestly boycotting this game at the moment. Get real. RDR is one of my three favourite games of all time. I'm definitely picking this up. Fuck the idea of trying to blow up any blockages on the tracks of the hype train and presumed derailing discussion, though.