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[Papacheeks]

Because everyone that plays games are all games developers? Pretty silly rebuttal to criticism in any field.

No, but people who bring up either feminism, or lack of diversity in games need to understand there's nothing stopping anyone from making a game that will speak to their preferred tastes. ANd that there are games out there with diveristy. Hell battlefield 1's cover is of one of the campaign characters and he's black.

Mirrors edge main character is of asian decent and a woman. Horizon your a woman. The witcher 3 you get to play both female and male leads in a story that involves them. Also one of the most powerful character in the game is go figure Yennifer.

I guess if the game paints women in or a minority in a bad light people totally have a right to complain once we've actually seen the game.

But all we have is a promo image with a title. We have no clue on the actual context of the game itself.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

The only thing some folk hate more than no PC is PC apparently

Im outraged by your outrage at my outrage personally

 

[TheJollyCorner]

They really went with that title? Cmon.

From a marketing perspective, the title makes perfect sense. It's straight to the point.

Unfortunately, from a creative standpoint it's uninspired.
I definitely would have preferred a Red Dead R________ title, but I understand why R* is going with the more market-friendly numbered title. Meh.

 

[noface]

Sad to see that some are really opposed to diversity. Not that it's surprising.

I am in no way against playable female characters and diversity but I like my heroes in action games modeled exactly like Arnold from Conan 1. Sorry.

 

[Thornton Reed]

People love discussion, it seems you don't. Is it too hard for you? Or do you classify any sort of discussion that makes you think as "outrage." There's no outrage coming from anyone besides the people frothing at the mouth to provide the following excuses that are so old that we have a bingo board for it.
-historical accuracy
-artistic integrity
-they should make their own games
-don't like it don't buy it
-remember when games were about fun
-that's just the way it is
-outrage culture

and a whole slew of other age old excuses that have been refuted to hell and back.

I have added to the discussion, read my above post. We don't know anything yet and people are boycotting the game. It's outrage culture plain and simple, and that what is going on in the thread. People need to take a step back and just wait for the trailer at least.

 

[aliasad1998]

Why are people crying about the non inclusion of a female character on the cover? What a non issue.

 

[vivekTO]

I see No PC!

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I get that.

I'm just saying people are taking this a little too seriously when we don't know really anything at all.

Who cares? It's an important discussion to have about any game, I mean this thread is full of the same old "there's only white people because historical accuracy" crap that's been refuted a million times before. If just one person realises that history is different from what the media made them believe it's a good discussion to have regardless of your reasons for stifling it. The reason so many people believe that the old west was 100% white is because Hollywood ignored diversity in it's earlier years, that's a problem we as consumers of media need to push back on and show creators it should change. We could of course, let the status quo continue unchallenged and ignore important discussion, but what use is that?

 

[Fliesen]

this x 100000

social activist need to take it easy.

This is a discussion forum.
The teaser image is all we have to go by know.

Hence we discuss the teaser image.
i don't see what's wrong with that.

Mirrors edge main character is of asian decent and a woman. Horizon your a woman. The witcher 3 you get to play both female and male leads in a story that involves them. Also one of the most powerful character in the game is go figure Yennifer.

But you have to realize that RDR2 will probably be one of the most significant games of the generation / decade, and will (most certainly?) be this generation's best selling title. It'll probably sell more units than the aformentioned games combined. The fact that there's a lineup of 7 (most likely significant) characters, none of them female is simply ... well, a continuation of Rockstar's ... wonderful 'vision'

 

[Alucrid]

this x 100000

social activist need to take it easy.

seriously. what if they somehow hurt rockstar and this video game? i don't want take two's earnings affected by all this negativity.

 

[ChazGW7]

Im not falling for your bullshit again Rockstar. You'll get none of my money until I see that PC version.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

So, prequel I take it and the PC version six months later?

6 months? let's hope we're lucky enough. GTA V's PC version didn't come out until 19 months after the PS3/360 version.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

"Why are people bitching about diversity when we don't know about the characters?" Immediately proceeds to complain about the real issue, ambiguity in the announced platforms. My god, some of these posts are fucking amazing.

On Diversity: "fuck you, wait until we know more"
On Platforms: "where the fuck is the PC announcement? I'm fucking pissed!"

Opps I missed this. Where is the lie?

Can't discuss the lack of diversity, but LET'S talk about the lack of diversity for the platform release. LMAO!!

 

[Servbot24]

While I'm in favour of Rockstar telling the story they want to tell with the characters they want to write, it's even more amusing to see people triggered by people discussing inclusion. They don't really see the irony of shrieking about "outrage/pc culture"?

Many gamers come from a place of privilege. If they find out that other people are going to start being treated equally to them, they feel like they're losing ground or even being attacked.

That type of mentality is of course bafflingly stupid, not to mention childish and dangerous. I'm glad it gets called out on Gaf.

 

[Asriel]

I have added to the discussion, read my above post. We don't know anything yet and people are boycotting the game. It's outrage culture plain and simple, and that what is going on in the thread. People need to take a step back and just wait for the trailer at least.

Who's boycotting the game?

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's probably gonna be a cinematics trailer. Rockstar don't do CG, but it's probably too early for a gameplay trailer, and I don't think they would've started with a gameplay trailer anyway.

I never expected CG, confused by this. Nor do I expect gameplay.

Cinematic I agree with, and I hope it is meaty... but I would not be shocked if it was a short teaser with a meatier one later. Much in the same vain as GTA.

 

[AppleMIX]

I'm having flashback to when Far Cry 4 was announced.

 

[Domcorleone]

Why is it the least of things we should worry about? Is the gaming side of GAF full of more pressing issues at the moment? Imagine if you went into threads about a game being unoptimized on PC with the attitude of "if you entitled brats don't like it you don't have to buy it there's more important things to worry about!"

Yes it's true all we have to go off of is a teaser pic and it's very possible rdr2 could have more diverse cast and story than anybody is expecting. My problem isn't that. It's that people are shutting down conversations about better representation and diversity full stop, and it's not the first time it's happened here. People trying to dismiss it as not being a real issue, because it might force them to be somewhat critical of some of their favorite developers or games, are displaying such a pathetic and small minded view of the world. Representation does matter. It matters in movies and it tv and yes, now even in video games, and if you guys really are so overprotective of your hobby, you should be all for it because it will do nothing but expand the audience that might buy a game.

I honestly don't see that many people shutting down the diversity convo, I just see some people agreeing and some disagreeing that it is important to this particular game. Clearly you think it is important which it is okay but that doesn't invalidate the other opinions.

I think representation is super important in all mediums, and in particular videogames since it has the least amount of minority representation. I just feel it is important to be able to have a nuanced discussion based on each particular piece of art and seeing if the narrative fits or not. For example, a show like Girls is a personal story about a Jewish girl's experience. I hated the fact that they added Donald Glover in it just to make people feel better. It felt forced and sort of passive aggressive. I didn't think him being black added anything to the story line whatsoever. Also it is realistic that some white only know white people. On the other hand, there are other shows in which I've questioned why the seemed to only have white people when the story and setting called for a more diverse cast in my eyes. I think these things should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I want more Shonda Rimes in Hollywood and in videogames than I do Viola Davis' if that makes sense. The more Shonda Rimes we get, the more stories we can get with a diverse cast and diverse storytelling.

Right now, my two favorite shows are Insecure and Atlanta. Both showrunners are black and the dialogue,characters and stories show this. I don't think those shows would be as good if the showrunners were white.

 

[HiiiLife]

Might be native actually. Now that I'm looking at it the face kind of reminds me of that guy from last of the mohicans and avatar

Well that and his hairstyle is reminiscent of it too

 

[Clark W Grizwald]

Not sure why people thought Rockstar would waste their time with a remake. They are too big to release a second tier project like that. Just like Blizzard is not going to waste their time with a D2 remake. If anything gets announced it's going to be D4

 

[FF Seraphim]

What exactly is wrong with this again?

The fact that the people are getting angry over an image instead of actually waiting for more information about the actually game to come out?

Discussions are nice, but we kinda need information before we start crucifying companies for their actions. We know nothing about this game. Hell all 7 of those guys could be people we need to kill or it may just be a simple promotional poster.

 

[Dick Justice]

Nobody is saying anybody should be forced to do anything. The question (and it's a very legitimate one that begs discussion) is why representation would need to be "forced" in the first place? Why is the default in games 98% of the time white males?

Pretty much. Alt-righters like to bitch and moan about "forced diversity", as if making a game filled exclusively with straight white male characters should be the standard.

On the topic of the game itself, the art style makes it a little difficult to make out the ethnicity of some of the characters.

 

[Audioboxer]

No, but people who bring up either feminism, or lack of diversity in games need to understand there's nothing stopping anyone from making a game that will speak to their preferred tastes. ANd that there are games out there with diveristy. Hell battlefield 1's cover is of one of the campaign characters and he's black.

Mirrors edge main character is of asian decent and a woman. Horizon your a woman. The witcher 3 you get to play both female and male leads in a story that involves them. Also one of the most powerful character in the game is go figure Yennifer.

I guess if the game paints women in or a minority in a bad light people totally have a right to complain once we've actually seen the game.

But all we have is a promo image with a title. We have no clue on the actual context of the game itself.

While there might be truths in your post all I'm saying is it's better to engage with a more fleshed out rebuttal than "go make your own game". Precisely because you and others already know you are replying to people who are not games developers. I mean some might be, but usually those on GAF who are developers make it known. For those that aren't it's just a bit of a purposely dismissive remark to tell an average person to "go make a game" because they are being critical of a game.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I have added to the discussion, read my above post. We don't know anything yet and people are boycotting the game. It's outrage culture plain and simple, and that what is going on in the thread. People need to take a step back and just wait for the trailer at least.

How many people in this thread have said they're boycotting the game?

 

[chrisPjelly]

I'm surprised people are treading back to John Marston and his old gang. Personally, I'm interested in that again, and I think this story may have something to do with Landon Ricketts.

 

[More_Badass]

Why are people bitching about "lack of diversity" first of all, you haven't even seen the game or what role women will play in the game yet, you are making assumptions based on a poster, second of all, the western era was not known for diversity whatsoever, if anything, it was a very sexist time period, thirdly, not everything that doesn't include women in leading roles means it is a "lack of diversity" has anyone here ever heard of creative choices?

This comment is exactly why. It's the answer to your questions

This has been my sentiment to most threads that are about lack of female/black or what have you lead characters. If you have a story you want to tell, or something you want someone else to experience and feel what you feel for it, then go make it.

You realize how naive that kind of thinking is, right? The "go do it yourself" dismissal absolutely ignores how influential the biggest in the medium can be. Do you think some diverse indie games by GAF members would have as much influence as a game by Naughty Dog or Rockstar or whatnot?

It also ignores the notion of being informed. Why do you think developers like Druckmann and others have stated how thinking about topics brought up by Anita influenced their game design and storytelling? It's about encouraging developers and creators to broaden their horizons and not stick to old cliches and stereotypes

 

[OldMan]

Magnificent 7 the game I knew this gen was having a film to game shortage and here we are

 

[Thornton Reed]

So why do you and the previous poster assume things based on what is in the picture present? Is it a "Yay hype train / nay snipe train" thing"?

Talk about a subject or don't. That's it.

And nobody is honestly boycotting this game at the moment. Get real. RDR is one of my three favourite games of all time. I'm definitely picking this up. Fuck the idea of trying to blow up any blockages on the tracks of the hype train and presumed derailing discussion, though.

There are people literally saying they aren't buying the game in this thread.

At this point i'm not assuming anything about the game. I can make my on judgement when there is something more tangible to analyse.

 

[Nirolak]

Might be native actually. Now that I'm looking at it the face kind of reminds me of that guy from last of the mohicans and avatar

His jacket is also clearly meant to be Native American with all the little strips.

 

[Joeku]

No, but people who bring up either feminism, or lack of diversity in games need to understand there's nothing stopping anyone from making a game that will speak to their preferred tastes. ANd that there are games out there with diveristy. Hell battlefield 1's cover is of one of the campaign characters and he's black..

Yeah, there's a black man on a video game cover! That means there's no institutionalized stereotyping and predispostion towards presumed majorities in writing and marketing anymore!

Mafia 3 came out you guys. By a MAJOR publisher. Racism is clearly over.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

Only way to settle this diversity argument is to make all the characters robots. I'm telling you, man, ROBOT COWBOYS THAT CAN SHOOT LASERS FROM THEIR EYES!

None of this tumbleweed bollocks.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

It's unfortunate people are freaking out so much over a poster.

Personally, I'm super excite! Although, I would've been ecstatic to get an HD remake or pc port of RDR. Lol

 

[HiiiLife]

Why are people crying about the non inclusion of a female character on the cover? What a non issue.

Have you not read any of the diversity posts plenty of users are discussing? Lol.

 

[Tigress]

Oh, but it will sell well. That is a guarantee.

Yes, that doesn't mean it's wrong for people to point out criticisms.

You won't make something better if you don't hear what was bad about it.

(and personally,it won't sell to me based on the last game. Well until I hear stuff that really sells me on it that either sounds like the game is so good in ways that I'll get over bad story writing or has decent story writing this time. DOn't get me started on how annoying the story was, particularly in mexico, to the point it turned me off a game I originally had a good first impression when I started the game).

 

[Crossing Eden]

I have added to the discussion, read my above post. We don't know anything yet and people are boycotting the game. It's outrage culture plain and simple, and that what is going on in the thread. People need to take a step back and just wait for the trailer at least.

We've had one person say they aren't going to purchase it, the rest has been clear cut discussion while dudes trip over themselves trying to cite historical accuracy and creative integrity as if EITHER are valid excuses.

 

[neoemonk]

I'm outraged by the fact that they put EST on that image when it's still daylight savings time.

 

[Ascenion]

You seek to be missing some context. First, if a story is well written it doesn't matter what the protagonist's gender is. If you look closely at Redemption how much would really change if Abigail was the protagonist and not John? Not much at all.

Gotta disagree with that last bit. Abigail being the protagonist would throw off a lot of the character interactions while also bringing up new ones. Jack and John's relationship is pretty critical in the game. Abigail and Jack wouldn't have the same relationship. It would work, yes but it wouldn't be Red Dead Redemption and imo the story wouldn't be as powerful because you can't just swap John for Abigail.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

The fact that the people are getting angry over an image instead of actually waiting for more information about the actually game to come out?

Discussions are nice, but we kinda need information before we start crucifying companies for their actions. We know nothing about this game. Hell all 7 of those guys could be people we need to kill or it may just be a simple promotional poster.

If that was the case, how come irrelevant white male npcs get to be on the cover instead of these supposed hidden diverse protagonists. The might be even worse

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

The fact that the people are getting angry over an image instead of actually waiting for more information about the actually game to come out?

Discussions are nice, but we kinda need information before we start crucifying companies for their actions. We know nothing about this game. Hell all 7 of those guys could be people we need to kill or it may just be a simple promotional poster.

Shouldn't people screaming that there's no immediate PC release also take this advice orrrrr is this exclusive to people who want to see more diversity that isn't apparent in this picture right now?

Because as far as I'm concerned...Nobody knows shit but here we are. I don't think people screaming about inclusion for platforms should be telling anyone who's disappointed by the lack of diversity to calm down. Nah...

 

[Qassim]

GTAV PC selling as well as it did after already being released for four platforms before it means we'll have to wait... again.

I'll end up buying this twice...

 

[Kin5290]

This has been my sentiment to most threads that are about lack of female/black or what have you lead characters. If you have a story you want to tell, or something you want someone else to experience and feel what you feel for it, then go make it.

But don't bother looking around for any help surmounting the incredible barriers to entry for anybody trying to create a AAA game.

What a crock of shit.

 

[The Artisan]

i wonder if this thread will be the spark of another Nadine Ross-type controversy.

 

[zombieshavebrains]

Why no PC? Did gtav not justify it?

 

[Papacheeks]

As a creator, this sort of post is just so disappointing. You have a bigger responsibility than just 'tell the story you want to'. That's not how it works.

Yes you have to have equality in how things are represented in a medium I agree. But if your making a game that depicts a period where white male were more prominent for outlaws and such It is there duty to tell that story as it was intended per the writing.

If they wrote it as all women in the game were from brothels or just homesteaders I guess yes it's extreme sexists and people should be outraged. But red dead redemptions story had many female lead characters who added to the world and john's story.

Should steven spielberg have had a female lead in saving private ryan? Or actually showed in general female soldiers in the storming of Normandy?

 

[Joeku]

There are people literally saying they aren't buying the game in this thread.

At this point i'm not assuming anything about the game. I can make my on judgement when there is something more tangible to analyse.

Yes, and that's as hyperbolic as all of the many super-hyped "DAY ZERO!!!!!" posts. Don't latch onto that. If you're going to wait for more tangible stuff to talk about, wait for it. Don't invade on earlier discussion just to try to shut it down. This is a forum.

 

[Matthew23]

Having double dipped with GTAV I am going to patiently wait for the inevitable PC announcement. I don't mind a staggered release but not being up front about it does rub me the wrong way.

 

[demosthenes]

Yes! PC pls.

Have to think they'll release on PC with GTA's success and shared architecture.

+1 year.

 

[Nocturno999]

Sad to see that some are really opposed to diversity. Not that it's surprising.

I'm all in favor of diversity but I can't agree with this outrage.

 

[Nirolak]

Why no PC? Did gtav not justify it?

To the contrary, it actually made a pretty great argument for releasing it late.

5.6 million copies and that's not even counting the ones not on Steam, and the game hasn't exactly been on amazing bottom basement sales.

Why not get the double dips when the audience doesn't seem to care?

Rockstar also forwarded that they can do a better port when their core team moves over after the project is done.

 

[VCL]

I'll get it on scorpio