PS4 Pro PR has been terrible

As someone who has a pro preordered yet hasnt really done much research (just gaf and the initial info dump) i dont think its that hard to understand.

4k TVs will get 4k (well not native but you know what mean) plus sometimes more effects improvements.

1080p TVs will get some of the following depending on what the developer chooses:
Downsampling for crisper image
Additional effects
Possibly better frame rates in single player games

Basically improved visuals in some manor depending on what the dev chooses to do with it. Some may even give options (tomb raider).

Past games may get patched to give boosts but its not gaurenteed.

They cant give a more in depth answer than that because its up to the devs.

Really not sure why it seems so confusing. Maybe because i have always also had a gaming pc of some level so knowing i will get some visual options but nothing concrete is normal to me?

They havnt marketed it like crazy but that may be fear of upsetting normal ps4 owners? Its somewhat new territory after all.
 
gundamkyoukai said:
The only place the X1 is selling is where X1 sells to begin with .
A system that plays games better is a better selling point for the hardcore .
They will still be a PS5 is 3 years this just get Sony some extra money and gamers some extra for power.
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Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

Graphics also don't mean anything without games to play it on, and at the end of the day if the regular PS4 can play the same games as the more expensive Pro, who is actually going to care beyond the relatively few hardcore gamers who don't have a PS4 to begin with.
 
EventHorizon said:
Since when is chopping of the first two words of a sentence that directly contradict you, quoting fully? Admit it. You are wrong.

I'm talking about what the Pro is and I used Sony's own unveiling event to prove what I said was true. How can you possibly criticize using source material for reference? You on the other hand have just thrown out unsubstantiated attacks. You have yet to prove anything I said was wrong.
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I was quite obviously referring to this post.

I'm also quite done discussing this with you any further :)

Darkangel said:
I guess time will tell how it all plays out. I'm getting some "third pillar" vibes when they talk about Scorpio fitting into the Xbox One family.

If Scorpio really takes off, and Sony releases the PS5 in a timely fashion, then it will basically have kickstarted the next generation even though it's still technically an Xbox One.
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Third pillar? Neah man, they've been very clear that it will render new (some existing ones too) Xbox One games in 4K, but it won't have any exclusives. It will be a new generation in the same way PS4 Pro is, which is to say not at all.

Always-honest said:
Will Scorpio players play mp games against XboxOne owners? Or is this not covered yet?
Because if this is true, then they can't give Scorpio players an advantage, can they?

Just wondering how this will all work.
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I'm guessing it will work similar to PS4's rules; 30fps multiplayer games can't run at 60fps on Pro.

That said, Scorpio nor PS4 Pro are powerful enough to run 30fps MP games in 4K AND 60fps anyway.
Don't quote exceptions at me pls

Spyder_Monkey said:
Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

Graphics also don't mean anything without games to play it on, and at the end of the day if the regular PS4 can play the same games as the more expensive Pro, who is actually going to care beyond the relatively few hardcore gamers who don't have a PS4 to begin with.
Click to expand...

I love the XB1S, but bolded is absolute nonsense. It can play UHD Blurays, so it's definitively the better value console of the two? Git outta here. UHD BD's have a poor catalog of titles atm, and they're expensive as shit. It'll probably take until the XB2 and PS5 until that catalog is fleshed out and affordable. Not to mention the format wars. But that's a story for another thread.
 
Spyder_Monkey said:
Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

Graphics also don't mean anything without games to play it on, and at the end of the day if the regular PS4 can play the same games as the more expensive Pro, who is actually going to care beyond the relatively few hardcore gamers who don't have a PS4 to begin with.
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Of course playing better version of games is a selling point it's why people are buying it.
I want the best version of the games for my console.

Don't you really think 4k play back is a better selling point than better looking games for a game console .
Even if the games are not native 4k they will look better than upscale 1080p to 4k .
Also i bet there are more than a few hardcore gamers who will upgrade plus people that not buy a system yet .

EDIT not to mention the pro is only $100 ($50 if you count HDD size) more than X1S and 4 times more powerful .
Plus if you don't care about disc which is growing it will stream in 4k .
 
GinoFelino said:
I'm guessing it will work similar to PS4's rules; 30fps multiplayer games can't run at 60fps on Pro.

That said, Scorpio nor PS4 Pro are powerful enough to run 30fps MP games in 4K AND 60fps anyway.
Don't quote exceptions at me pls

.
Click to expand...
That would be my guess right now too. But i know way too little about the console.
Not concerned about 4K but about the fps advantage.
 
Maybe if there were more native 4k content available, and maybe if the Pro could play that media, or run games at 4k, there might be more of an appetite for it.

This whole thing seems like a losing proposition to me unless we see lots of games at 1080 with better frame rates. I don't expect that to happen.
 
GinoFelino said:
I was quite obviously referring to this post.

I'm also quite done discussing this with you any further :)
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You mean the post where you made no specific claim at all? How can we be talkin about that post when you didn't say anything of note. That's the whole reason why I prodded you to say exactly what you disagreed with so I could make a counter argument? Then the only way you could make an argument was to selectively quote me to remove the part that proved you wrong.

None of that matters because I have now successfully defended my claim that regarding the PS4 Pro...
"It's mostly a nice little bump in graphical quality for those who have 4K HDR TVs."​
 
Personally I don't think the messaging is the problem. It's that Sony just hasn't been promoting this thing at all. Here in the UK, all I see on TV are Xbox adverts. You wouldn't think that Sony had a more powerful hardware refresh launching in just over two weeks.
 
Mihalis0013 said:
That's the point I was failing to get at. I think that the Pro will benefit PSVR a lot. I think that Sony decided to not go with that message.

Clearly I have no actual information on this and it's just my opinion.

When I look at PC VR GPU requirements and then look at PS4 GPU and the recent article where Cerny was describing the Pro as almost having a second identical GPU seemed to lend itself to the idea of VR given that to my understanding you have to render the picture for each eye.

I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see the Pro messaged more towards VR. Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel any better, I completely agree with you.

Can't market the Pro for the VR, the really close release dates might confuse the PS4 user base into thinking PSVR is for the Pro. They want all 40 million PS4 users to know that PSVR is an exceptional experience on PS4 vanilla, not a second class one. IMO PSVR is where the Pro will really show the most gains as far as graphical capabilities are concerned

Can't really market Pro for the 1080p folks, throwing out things like 4x MSAA, 16x AF, increased LOD, FOV, motion blur etc just confuses casuals and none of those features really screams "i'd buy that for $400!" to Joe the Plumber. And don't forget that you can't see a higher framerate in screenshots!

So... hey 4K! HDR! You know that TV that you bought last year with all those features that nothing fucking uses? We gonna use them!

It's not really that they are doing a bad job marketing, but more that marketing this thing isn't easy. And as someone with a PSVR who is NOT upgrading to a 4K TV in the next 2 or 3 years, I am beyond excited to get my hands on that sweet Pro goodness
 
EventHorizon said:
You mean the post where you made no specific claim at all? How can we be talkin about that post when you didn't say anything of note. That's the whole reason why I prodded you to say exactly what you disagreed with so I could make a counter argument? Then the only way you could make an argument was to selectively quote me to remove the part that proved you wrong.

None of that matters because I have now successfully defended my claim that regarding the PS4 Pro...
"It's mostly a nice little bump in graphical quality for those who have 4K HDR TVs."​
Click to expand...

raw
 
Spyder_Monkey said:
Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

Graphics also don't mean anything without games to play it on, and at the end of the day if the regular PS4 can play the same games as the more expensive Pro, who is actually going to care beyond the relatively few hardcore gamers who don't have a PS4 to begin with.
Click to expand...

Pre orders for the Pro are very strong. Lots of people care.
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
I have a feeling the market is going to hit this and the Scorpio like a train. The whole point of consoles is that we don't have to incrementally upgrade.
Click to expand...

...and you still don't. However, if you're not a current PS4 owner and was going to purchase one, the value for $ has been increased.

Scorpio? Who knows, way too early. But with the Pro, it's such an incremental cost bump over the competition (if we're comparing 1TB models, which really IME is necessary without constant storage management) that it just makes the advantage even more significant. I don't see how that translates into market failure, especially when there's little sign interest in the PS4 as a platform is waning.
 
The good news is that the price is reasonable.Its not some $800 machine.

The hardware & performance are objectively better.

Its a nice extra option.
 
pswii60 said:
And you don't.
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Thank you.

This and the "they need to ramp up advertisement" stuff really strikes me as odd. They have 3 different sku's to sell and one is for a more hardcore consumer that knows about it already. Pro is not the only console and it plays all the same games.

It's an option for people.
 
I still want to know what the bloody bay size for HDs is with the Pro.

They could at least just fucking say its the same size if they did not change up specs of that from the PS4 that way people can plan for what HD to purchase to swap out of their Pros.

From a marketing standpoint its idiocy not to. As larger HDs = more space for potential digital purchases and whatnots. Which means more folks being funneled further into the PSN ecosystem.

There is absolutely no reason why they need to be coy about that. Since those who would be getting a pro are the types of consumers that would actually give a shit about details like that.
 
The God said:
Why isn't it bad for people who like generations? And you'll find plenty of people who wish Microsoft would've stuck with the original XB1 drm plans, people who wouldn't have been negatively affected by them. Is it fair that they can deflect all the criticism MS was receiving by just shouting "selfish"?
Click to expand...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you're being negatively affected by it.

Games arent suddenly not going to be releasing on PS4 just because the Pro exists.

Even if someone liked xboxs drm, they are still being negatively affected by it by not having the option of buying used games (even if they don't plan on it).
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
I have a feeling the market is going to hit this and the Scorpio like a train. The whole point of consoles is that we don't have to incrementally upgrade.
Click to expand...
Let me put it that way (and for the record I have been quite critical of Sony's decision to not put a UHD BR drive in this):

For the price of 1 mid-range Graphic Card upgrade on a PC, you get a brand new console with a controller that can play some of the games already out better than any other console on the market (when patched), plays native 4K versions of some games, plays at least a 4KPR versions of games releasing forward, plays enhanced 1080p versions of most games (if not all) releasing forward, has 1G of extra memory compared to current consoles, 1 more USB in the back, a 1Tb Hard drive and can also (probably) support PSVR at its best, and will have access to Netflix and Youtube in 4K, among other 4K services...

Is it any surprise to hear that it is doing very well in pre orders?
 
I have to agree.
The major reason not to upgrade is because if games aren't patched, the PS4 Pro basically goes in to original PS4 mode and shuts down the expanded GPUs and stuff.
Thats a huge let down.
But I guess thats not PR, but rather Sony being honest about it.
I hope they change this in a future firmware update.
 
I wonder when we'll start getting more in-depth hands-on impressions? I'm still curious to know how loud/quiet it runs.
 
Parakeetman said:
I still want to know what the bloody bay size for HDs is with the Pro.

They could at least just fucking say its the same size if they did not change up specs of that from the PS4 that way people can plan for what HD to purchase to swap out of their Pros.

From a marketing standpoint its idiocy not to. As larger HDs = more space for potential digital purchases and whatnots. Which means more folks being funneled further into the PSN ecosystem.

There is absolutely no reason why they need to be coy about that. Since those who would be getting a pro are the types of consumers that would actually give a shit about details like that.
Click to expand...

Did they say it's been updated? If not, then you can be 99% sure it's the same exact slot as before. The fact they stated the SATA 3 change but nothing about bay size should tell you everything you need to know

And honestly do you really need EVERYONE game on your HDD? People like this are like those kids who will try to carry 7000 things to the next room all at once instead of just making a couple extra trips
 
Marty Chinn said:
On the flip side, just because it's optional doesn't mean you're not being negatively affected by it either.
Click to expand...

the comparison is to the Xbox DRM stuff though. If the Xbox DRM stuff would have happened, there is no question absolutely everyone would have been affected by it, wether they liked it or not

with the iterative console thing, it remains to be seen if standard console owners will be negatively affected by it. it could go either way
 
The choice for someone like me, who doesn't have a PS4 already, is really easy. Same price as OG model at release but a much more powerful box with improvements (minor as they may be) across the board on all future games.
 
Part of the issue is that Microsoft is pushing the 4K angle so hard, Sony can't talk too much about 1080p or they risk positioning themselves as the console for the 1080 crowd. Sony has to talk 4K first and foremost, in order not to cede that territory to MS. 1080p thus gets secondary mention at best.
 
How many people just didn't watch the reveal and saw the moments where Cerny specifically laid out the improvements we can expect for 4K, 1080P and VR. Like, all 3 of these things were specifically laid out and detailed.
 
chandoog said:
The choice for someone like me, who doesn't have a PS4 already, is really easy. Same price as OG model at release but a much more powerful box with improvements (minor as they may be) across the board on all future games.
Click to expand...

Maybe for you, but I think after strong initial sales to the hardcore/early adopter types Sony is going to quickly discover that the well of people who want to pay $400 for a PS4 console is running pretty dry.
 
blue_phazon said:
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you're being negatively affected by it.

Games arent suddenly not going to be releasing on PS4 just because the Pro exists.

Even if someone liked xboxs drm, they are still being negatively affected by it by not having the option of buying used games (even if they don't plan on it).
Click to expand...

That remains to be seen, and you still didn't answer my questions
 
Wow... 15 pages.

Well my 2 cents. Sony doesn't want to market this as a new console because their entire shick for this thing is that it is an upgrade for those who have TV's and want that bigger picture while also not making those who purchased the OG feel disadvantaged. So really and truly, they just created another sku to replace the OG for people who have those capabilities.

At the same time, it also has some tweaks that can make games better for those who do and do not have those TV's required. I don't see it as any different than Google churning out a newer Chromecast Dongle that's 4K now..
 
I'm just waiting on a visual comparison, hopefully in video form, of 1080p native vs 1080p supersampled from the PS4 Pro in, say, Uncharted 4. That is what will decide if I move to actually upgrade.
 
dead souls said:
Maybe for you, but I think after strong initial sales to the hardcore/early adopter types Sony is going to quickly discover that the well of people who want to pay $400 for a PS4 console is running pretty dry.
Click to expand...

That's the one thing I agree on.

Post release, Sony need to rethink the marketing and make the distinction between the $299 Slim and $399 Pro versions as obvious as they can. Whether that's by using more examples, or labeling them as clear as possible during adverts, that's up to their marketing.
 
dead souls said:
Maybe for you, but I think after strong initial sales to the hardcore/early adopter types Sony is going to quickly discover that the well of people who want to pay $400 for a PS4 console is running pretty dry.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about this. I think the market for people willing to pay more for slightly better stuff is bigger than people think. Just look at how many people buy the biggest sized giant iPhone
 
Opus Angelorum said:
You think Sony is only marketing the PS4 Pro towards NeoGAF users?

It's going to be very difficult for a kid to convince their parents to buy the PS4 Pro, if they already have a PS4.
Click to expand...

And while they would like that kid to upgrade, they are just as happy if he just keeps his standard PS4. They just want to keep people in the ecosystem and they have said specifically that the PS4 Pro is to curve some customers that may want more power and are considering going to PC.

They win either way as long as what's under your TV is a "PlayStation".
 
Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.
 
It's a niche product for a small subset of gamers. One shouldn't expect marketing on par with a full console launch. Scorpio will be the real deal and I suspect the marketing will be quite a bit more extensive. Plus it will be MS' first foray into console VR so the marketing will be huge.
 
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