As far as women are concerned, gonna have to disagree bigly.
FBI reviewing emails found on devices used by Weiner/Abedin
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As far as women are concerned, gonna have to disagree bigly.
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
Of course Trump doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. By now everyone but his supporters have a pretty clear picture of his character and motivations, and he made a staggering number of lies over the last few years.
Why exactly should he get the same benefit of the doubt Clinton gets? Do I need to bring up the politifact score cards of the two candidates?
If he had a magic button that could wipe out all blacks and/or muslims without suffering consequences, do you think he wouldn't press it? We're speaking about the guy who stated US troopers should murder the families of (alleged) terrorists, and doesn't pay those working for him when he can get away with it, so this is pretty clear indication that he doesn't have empathy or respect for other people.
I won't.
But I'll let actual Holocaust survivors do the comparison for me instead.
Survivor says Trump reminds him of Hitler.
Holocaust Survivor warns of dangers of Trump's rhetoric.
Stepsister of Anne Frank says Trump reminds her of Hitler.
The comparison isn't to Hitler in the midst of his war-mongering, Holocaust-dealing prime, but rather the Hitler Germany voted into office, one who promised to restore Germany to prestige and power, who promised to throw out foreign influence and purge those diluting Germany heritage, one who promised them a new country of wealth and prominence at the expense of the "others". One who didn't yet have the means to enact his plans, but riled a zealous legion of followers took it down darker and more violent and extreme paths.
So I won't compare him to Hitler myself. I'll let people who were actually there do the comparisons instead.
Yeah, she's just like the UKIP in Britain. Yup.
Europe has a far right as bad as America's far right, let's not pretend otherwise.
So what? Europe thinks blackface is cool and just fell out of the sky.
For sure, but you're not going to get that to change unless the people in the country change (though I'd say she is more centrist). A large part of the Gov't is still Republican, It wouldn't matter who you elected, a lot of policy desires from the left are a non-starter.
I think this is the video to shut up all Hitler comparisons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ZyhPfBnNc
DragonSworne
Banned
Imagine Hitler with nuclear lunch codes. That is what a Trump presidency will be.
Also look at how Euro posters here talk about the Roma. Those threads are perennial graveyards due to all the unmitigated hate. That's not even counting the rise of rightwing parties that would make W. Bush run the other way.
Except the fact that there's holocaust survivors making the comparisons. Trump's rhetoric is straight out of fascist Europe, not when they were in power but when they were rising to power. If you can't see that I'd go smack whoever taught you world history.
Snowybreak
Member
It's rather funny really.
I was doing a re-read of a few chapters from Rise and Fall of the Third Reich this morning. It's uncanny how similar their campaign rhetoric is.
(Read the book if you can, but be warned, the author was a massive homophobe, so there's some of that sprinkled throughout, but it's still a worthwhile read. Think of it as a product of its time.)
I was doing a re-read of a few chapters from Rise and Fall of the Third Reich this morning. It's uncanny how similar their campaign rhetoric is.
(Read the book if you can, but be warned, the author was a massive homophobe, so there's some of that sprinkled throughout, but it's still a worthwhile read. Think of it as a product of its time.)
Only major issues I have with that video is that while, yes, America's actual prosperity and health are far better than Germany's were at the time, you DO have an insane number of people right now who DO think this is "the worst it's ever been". That rights are being sucked away, that unemployment is rising, that crimerates are "literally hell" (Trump's descriptions of inner cities might as well be Armageddon).
It's where we had actual party leaders from the GOP arguing with journalists who brought up facts disproving their claims by instead going "people FEEL this way, and that makes it EQUALLY true" and "well, you keep your facts and I'll stick with people's feelings and we'll see who wins". The whole facts<feelings thing isn't in our heads on this.
The assumption that people bristle at the comparisons, because claiming support means you're a Nazi, also might hold less water if Trump didn't have the endorsement of the KKK and Neo-Nazi's...
Of course I think invoking Godwin's Law is just plain lazy, and that's my big takeaway, and to call out Trump's legitimately dangerous, hateful, violence-inducing rhetoric and unlawful propositions deserves to not be dismissed out of hand as "just like Hitler" comparisons. It deserves to be called out on its own disgusting merits, in a fair and analytical - not reactionary - manner.
... But I will say that, in the time that I've been alive, I've never seen a presidential candidate in my nation instigate or advocate such open xenophobia, hatred, bigotry, racism, sexism, or intolerance.
Nope. The video completely ignores Trump's rhetoric and vilification of groups of people. Also ignores his lies laced with populism. That's where people compare Trump to Hitler.
But hey if you want to be associated with Trump supporters then go for it.
No she is not.
This ridiculous notion that Europe is a liberal paradise and that over here Hillary would be in our right wing parties is so divorced from reality in every way its embarressing, and makes us europeans just look stupid.
Hillary is in favour of universal health care.
She is in favour of higher taxes on the rich.
She is in favour of more welfare support to narrow the gap.
She is in favour of government intervention in the market place to narrow equality and to stimulate the economy.
She is a believer in regulation and government oversight.
She is in favour of taking action against climate change.
She is in favour of LGBT, womens and other social issues generally seen as left wing.
Is she far left? No. But to describe her as right wing by ANY country's definition is just plain balmy. She is not, nor has she ever been, "right wing" or "centre-right". Be it America, Britain, France or Sweden she is on the left.
BrutishMrFish
Member
If that comparison is based on feelings of personal dislike instead of policy or rhetoric, sure.
If she's a normal conservative, why is Farage supporting Trump instead of her?
This is completely tangential, but I was quite taken aback by the homophobia when I first read it.
Thankfully it doesn't inform his academic history in any way and is able to be ignored in favor of the good work that's in the book. Still the best history of WWII Germany that I've read.
Fucking this. So much this. It is fucking embarrassing seeing people shit post the same thing again and again.
Nope. The video completely ignores Trump's rhetoric and vilification of groups of people. Also ignores his lies laced with populism. That's where people compare Trump to Hitler.
But hey if you want to associated with Trump supporters then go for it.
Ah yes, the vlogbrothers. Trump shills if I ever say one! "The fault in our stars" is actually an ode to the great Donald himself!
NV is early voting, she is on target to replicate Bams 12 in the state, Trump would need to win Election day by 60-40 or some shit to overcome the Clark County Reid Machine given 70% of the vote likely to already be baked by Friday.
Only way this is wrong is if registered D's are in fact not D's.
America is nothing like post Treaty of Versailles Germany lol? I'm derailing the topic at this point so lets just end it here.
tomato shrub
Member
I'm sorry, but Hitler comparisons give Trump's intelligence way too much credit.
That too. You really need to educate yourself better if you think 1920/30s Germany and its social problems can be compared to the current US. Which makes people buying into Trump's trolling a very different kind of sad.
That too. You really need to educate yourself better if you think 1920/30s Germany and its social problems can be compared to the current US. Which makes people buying into Trump's trolling a very different kind of sad.
Garrett Hawke
Member
What has caused the recent polls dip? Is it really this? Do people really care more about this than the pussy comments or anything else? It just seems strange that THIS would be enough to make the race closer.
No, probably not. The emails story was already baked in over the course of the election.
Nobody thinks that. But many Trump supporters "feel" similar sentiments.
Apparently, Hitler was a "dunderhead." I mean, he did let Normandy happen?
You need to read up on what the republicans are selling. If 60% can believe Obama is a gay muslim, how hard is it for them to believe their country is going into the shitter? Just ask Newt.
excelsiorlef
Member
Reagan really did a number on us.
Bill Clinton was the wedge Democrats used to get back into political power after twelve years of austerity, and he was helped out massively by an eccentric third-party spoiler. Bill's presidency involved neoliberal domestic policy and interventionist foreign policy that hadn't really been exhibited by previous Democrats. In addition to gutting social services, Bill violently and arbitrarily intervened in various conflicts, sloppily creating the anarchy in Somalia and pushing Yugoslavia toward political fragmentation.The Clinton years were obviously followed by eight years of George W. Bush, who was not as far-right as Reagan but dragged us into a pair of imperialist neoconservative wars that left a lasting scar on American diplomacy, our economy, and the stability of the Middle East.
Obama isn't a far-left candidate by any measure, but he's still the first convicted liberal we've had in the White House since Carter left in '81. If not for the shamefully petulant obstructionism of the Republican Party, Obama would have been able to pass environmental, economic, and labor reforms that would have brought us closer to the social democratic standards of the rest of the developed world.
I don't love Hillary Clinton but she's absolutely a step in the right direction, much more similar to Obama than her husband politically, and clearly eager to pursue more left-wing reforms. But none of her efforts will succeed if our legislature continues to be dominated by shtihead Republicans.
Farage and the UKIP aren't normal conservatives, you know that. It's hyperbole to call Hillary a "European conservative", but her economic and foreign policy are more right-wing than most European center-left leaders. She's probably closer to Cameron than Corbyn.
We already explained this. The environment is different, and yet there is a sizable portion who support him who feel exactly like post-war Germany felt - as irrational as that is. That's the point. Facts and reality don't factor into many voters' beliefs.
The big fear is not TRUMP himself, but his FOLLOWERS. The rhetoric and ideology he fostered and flamed. The terrifying fact that, next election, it might be someone who embodies these principles yet actually IS intelligent, competent, and not saddled with over a dozen sexual harassment accusations.
Because Trump is doing far better on the back of this mindset than anyone expected, and someone actually capable would stand a very solid chance at beat Hillary Clinton and taking the seat of power.
Robdraggoo
Member
I thought Hitler wasn't voted into office. He was appointed to a position after he garnered 30% of the vote and became chancellor from that position when the previous one died. Or I'm missremebering
Her foreign policy is right-leaning, yeah, but comparing her to a tory domestically? Nah. Get back to me when she tries to give minimal funding to Obamacare to cause it to fail worse.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
he used to be a mod
prag16
Banned
I saw a huge pissing contest going on between him and dave is a ok earlier. Assuming it was from that.
Amir0x basically got really mad that dave thinks Hillary isn't a shining beacon of incorruptible honesty.
I think this video was made to directly address Amir0x's arguments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyc8LGOmwWs
(inb4 "he's just a butthurt Bernie bro")
tomato shrub
Member
Yet after it's introduction, your book review then continues to outline Hitler's intelligence and skills, which certainly haven't been present in Trump's campaign. Particularly Trump's rhetorics are a joke. He accidently struck gold by being a real life troll and ran with it. And considering his followers are usually at worst dealing with ,,1st world problems" compared to the completely crippled interwar Germany, Trump represents fascism less than he does what the ancient Greek labeled ochlocracy (i.e. democracy failing because of people's sheer stupidity/selfishness).
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
TYT were the "Bernie Bro" network during the primaries.
I see your point, however, for what it's worth, in my country, that's normal conservatism. Even the somewhat right-wing party is for most of points there.
maquiladora
Member
Sorry but higher taxes for the rich and taking real action against climate change are not examples of conservatism anywhere.
Nothing1016
Member
I wonder why everyone is infatuated with 538. I prefer Princeton honestly but I'd much rather look at the average.
NYT: 87%
538: 68.9%
HuffPost: 98%
PredictWise: 85%
Princeton Election Consortium: 99%
Daily Kos: 91%
Avg: 88.2% chance Hillary wins.
I agree with a lot of the points he makes. But we would be wise to never forget that facts is not what drives the population of a nation to greatness or cruelty. The feelings derived from a perceived order of things does.
IrishNinja
Member
he is though, TYT is trash
Well, when the shoe fits...
That dude really needs to not wear that t-shirt if he wants to be taken seriously.
Saint Gregory
Member
I wonder why everyone is infatuated with 538. I prefer Princeton honestly but I'd much rather look at the average.
NYT: 87%
538: 68.9%
HuffPost: 98%
PredictWise: 85%
Princeton Election Consortium: 99%
Daily Kos: 91%
Avg: 88.2% chance Hillary wins.
Most of those other aggregates are just straight polling numbers but 538 factors in a lot of statics that may affect the outcome of the voting in each state. I'm not sure that anyone but Nate really understands what he's doing at this point but his track record kind of demands that his numbers be respected.
I think that's why many are looking past 538. He lost his shit after the Republican primary, and his model is just strange at this point.
RPGCrazied
Member
When I first started to watch TYT, I thought it was cool. But Cenk, just goes overboard for my liking.
Its these people that would get a Trump elected.
Nate is Not the only person that got 2008 and 2012 right. We need to stop putting him on a pedestal.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm not willing to disregard his numbers just because they look crazy, this has been a crazy election season. I really hope that maybe people will see them and it will motivate folks that were going to stay home to go out and vote. Even if Hillary's got this in the bag the more votes she gets the better position she'll be in to push back on the inevitable Republican wall of obstruction once she takes office.
Nothing1016
Member
I agree we shouldn't disregard his numbers but people like Sam Wang and Drew Linzer have been just as accurate as Nate, maybe even more so when you add in margin of error and senate races. In my mind it makes no sense to put more weight for 538 compared to Princeton Election Consortium or Votamatic.
They explain their methodology in detail on the site. The model itself really hasn't changed much at all this time around.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Not saying she's a surrogate. All I'm saying is that Donald is not the shadiest or most powerful guy/gal running around. And apparently, Hillary prefers to associate with the kinds of business men and women you'd find at Goldman Sachs vs. a Trump hotel. These kinds of firms disproportionately go after minorities with fraud schemes, avoid taxes, and make a living operating at a level of corruption that Trump could never dream in a wide variety of markets that they're stakeholders in. These are the big fish felons that you don't want to be seen with similar to the mafia and drug traffickers. Particularly if you claim to care about African Americans, Latinos, poor whites, and so on that get hit hard. Heck, even guys like Don get fleeced routinely as part of the bread and butter when coming to the big shots for lending.
So I don't see why you would go for the generic GS surrogate given the disparity in scale of wrongdoing and how many lives they touch. Plus, the only thing a Lloyd Blankfein type is competent at is getting caught. I suppose reducing his or her firm's corresponding fine and avoiding prison time by settling out of court is a sign of impressive negotiating skills. But a lot of people can do that. Donald has done that and admits no wrongdoing.
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