FBI reviewing emails found on devices used by Weiner/Abedin

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dave is ok said:
Why should I expect arguments? My vote is my vote, I get to do what I want with it. I would never argue with other people about theirs.

I was about to go with Hillary when the Donna Brazile emails leaked and I remembered that her presidency will still be plagued with cronyism issues that have seemed to follow the Clintons around for decades. I wanted a true liberal or at least someone with the charisma of an Obama if I couldn't get that this cycle. I got nothing close.
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Ah yes, cronyism, something that wouldn't happen under the draft dodging, unqualified, insane rapist.


...


iUPzuAl.gif
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seriously how could you convince yourself Trump wouldn't do anything Clinton would do
 
dave is ok said:
Actually was referring to
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You...understand what she's talking about there, right? She's talking about the idea (pushed by some on the left) that we could be living in a liberal utopia if only we BELIEVED hard enough, if only our elected officials would TAKE A STAND, if only we'd re-double our commitment to Sparkle Motion.

The reality is that it takes time and work and incremental progress to achieve those sorts of gains, which has historically been the exact approach she champions. Look, I'd love it if we could wave a magic wand and get single-payer, but the realities of Congress (especially with gerrymandering) make it such that it just doesn't work that way. That's what she's talking about.
 
dave is ok said:
What am I? A monster? Because Hillary hasn't earned my trust or my vote?
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Were Germans who elected Hitler monsters?

At least we did believe their mistake would teach further generations that you don't put a racist sociopath on the throne.

So what does it make you? At best, an inconscious ignorant of our history; ignorant of the risk Trump represents for US minorities, and the danger his nuclear temperament and own ignorance causes to the whole planet.

Wake up.
 
marc^o^ said:
Were Germans who elected Hitler monsters?

At least we did believe their mistake would teach further generations that you don't put a racist sociopath on the throne.

So what does it make you? At best, an inconscious ignorant of our history; ignorant of the risk Trump represents for US minorities, and the danger his nuclear temperament and own ignorance causes to the whole planet.

Wake up.
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If I lived in a state that wasn't solidly blue I would be voting to keep him from office. Thankfully, I'm in Massachusetts.
 
EmpressInYellow said:
No. The idea that there's no difference between facts and opinions is incredibly dangerous. It's part of how we ended up where we are.

The fact that many people have little regard for facts does not mean that those facts don't exist. That many people come to different conclusions based on those facts does not somehow make those facts irrelevant, and the fact that "both sides" believe something does not mean "both sides" are correct.
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The problem is that how do you determine who's conclusions are correct when half the country believes one thing and the other half believes another? I agree with most liberal points of view on this election but I recognize that there are some very smart people who come to compeltley different conclusions about the candidates with the same set of facts. Facts are meaningless without a conclusion to give them a meaning. I can say that they're wrong, but they can also say that I'm wrong. We can have debates, but obviously this national conversation cant be sorted out with simply debating. So what is the judge of the correct conclusion from the facts if not the most popular opinion of the people?

I'm actually genuinely curious and don't believe my stance on this is correct but I just don't have another reason for why politics is the way it is outside of "half of America is stupid"
 
Chezzymann said:
I agree with you as I think Hillary is a good candidate, but I think the problem is that the status of if a candidate is good or bad is determined by the people that they're governing. So even if you think the people who view her as unfavorable are wrong, that doesn't mean she isn't an unfavorable candidate. To me, opinion is reality in these situations as if it isn't you have to say that one person's opinion is worth more than the other.
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I always find the favorability ratings arguments interesting, but I don't really think they mean much. My guess is that they're a product of the times more than a statement about the candidates. i.e. In 2012 they started to dip negative (AFAICT Romenys were actually lower than Clintons at this point in the campaign, and Obamas sat around zero), but before that its kinda hard to find any time that a candidate really wasn't in the positive. This year even Kaine has a negative favorability rating (with a shitload of undecideds). I don't really think that has much to do with the candidates. IMO, we've fielded far worse candidates than Hillary Clinton in my 35 years of life.

But even on the scale of "they're both the same" they're not. Trump's favorability ratings are far worse than Clinton's are right now. But none of it seems to matter to actual votes.
 
Hey guys, I did a short 2m speed painting of Hillary and Trump. Due to everything happening, I decided to make them like animals of who I think they would be going at each other. Just uhh, don't take it to seriously. I was just having some fun. (would have put this on OT politics thread but I don't see it btw). Would have liked to spend an extra 10 hours on it to be honest, but had to spend some time with family who was home from school due to reading week. :) Anyways, enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9HUg5r6uag
 
Saganator said:
Whoa ami was banned.

Really wish this forum would add something like "This user was banned for this post" feature.
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1. That's really none if our business.
2. Bans are rarely because if one single post but rather because of behavior demonstrated over a number of posts so that wouldn't eork.
3. It would just be used to shame the person and argue with moderation decisions and any positives gained from making people more "informed" aren't worth that.
 
dave is ok said:
Well I never considered voting for him and I don't think he'll win - so I don't have to think about his presidency
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Gotcha.

I have 0 issues with people who don't like HRC but also won't vote Trump, but people who somehow think Trump is > Hillary are legitimately insane in my eyes
 
WhateverItTakes said:
If you're curious PM a mod, they don't bite
BANNED
.
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It doesn't take a genius to figure out Ami needed a break, dude was wearing out his keyboard trying to make everyone love Hills.

Hopefully once she wins the election he'll be able to come back refreshed and a bit calmer
lol
 
dave is ok said:
Why should I expect arguments? My vote is my vote, I get to do what I want with it. I would never argue with other people about theirs.

I was about to go with Hillary when the Donna Brazile emails leaked and I remembered that her presidency will still be plagued with cronyism issues that have seemed to follow the Clintons around for decades. I wanted a true liberal or at least someone with the charisma of an Obama if I couldn't get that this cycle. I got nothing close.
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Isn't this factually false? Clinton is extremely close to Sanders who many consider a true liberal.

Also there is zero chance at true liberal policies with anyone other than her in office. And even then it would be thought for anyone because of the House/Senate. You certainly aren't getting it by a white nationalist being in office.
 
Armaros said:
Hillary gets the benefit of the doubt?

Being accused of killing your long time friend is a benefit of the doubt? Whitewater? The numerous investigations into the Foundation? Being attacked for Bill's infidelities? Being held to a different standard then other politicians when it comes to transparency? Being the target of the Benghazi investigation longer then the Watergate investigation?

These are all benefits?
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Yep.

In Washington, Hillary Clinton is pretty much the poster girl of "Guilty until proven innocent".
We just saw that again with Comey's letter actually, and Republicans are well aware of this, which is why I heard the most ironic thing said by a Trump surrogate on Monday: -NOW-, after the whole Friday mess, Comey better not come back to say they found Nothing in the new emails (he definitely should if they find something bad though), because -THAT- would be manipulating opinion too close to an election.

It was so thick, I couldn't help laughing.
 
marrec said:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out Ami needed a break, dude was wearing out his keyboard trying to make everyone love Hills.

Hopefully once she wins the election he'll be able to come back refreshed and a bit calmer
lol
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Oh it's pretty obvious, but still, I think people forget you can ask the mods what's going on behind the scenes and where about the line is drawn during discussions. They're our friends! Like I was curious how HUELEN got got so I just asked.

I enjoyed Amirox here. It's fun seeing a Hillery supporter going in hard as opposed to having to be muted because "That's the best way to change the other side's mind". Certainly true but it gets kinda tiresome...
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
Isn't this factually false? Clinton is extremely close to Sanders who many consider a true liberal.

Also there is zero chance at true liberal policies with anyone other than her in office. And even then it would be thought for anyone because of the House/Senate. You certainly aren't getting it by a white nationalist being in office.
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She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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How informed can you be to not know she's been at least for healthcare reform since forever?
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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She is a bit hawkish for a Democrat, and pro biz, but no.
At most she is center left, very demonstrably so.

She is pro Gov agencies, increasing taxes on the rich, voted to end loopholes in the tax code, pro healthcare coverage for the poor (kids and fakilies in particular), pro environment, pro women healthcare, pro gender equality, etc.
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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we all have opinions

doesn't mean they are based in fact
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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Hope you're voting down-ballot so that has the remotest possibly of happening.
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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Ok if Hillary is center-right then what does that make Obama?

Hillary has already fought for healthcare reform for most of her professional career and has already talked about tuition reform multiple times. Its one of the big policies she started pushing in collaboration with Sanders after winning the nomination.
 
Saganator said:
Whoa ami was banned.

Really wish this forum would add something like "This user was banned for this post" feature.
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You do have that, view post history, make up logical conclusion in your mind :)

Political season has tensions running high, especially this year, so mods do allow for some zest and passion, but some people still end up needing a time out till the vote is over/they cool down a bit.

Pai Pai Master said:
Ok if Hillary is center-right then what does that make Obama?

Hillary has already fought for healthcare reform for most of her professional career and has already talked about tuition reform multiple times.
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Obama is the best, that's what Obama is ;)
 
marc^o^ said:
Were Germans who elected Hitler monsters?

At least we did believe their mistake would teach further generations that you don't put a racist sociopath on the throne.

So what does it make you? At best, an inconscious ignorant of our history; ignorant of the risk Trump represents for US minorities, and the danger his nuclear temperament and own ignorance causes to the whole planet.

Wake up.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Let's stop these Hitler comparisons. Every time I read one I get annoyed.

Trump is a xenophobe and everything in between but he's not hitler.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
Ok if Hillary is center-right then what does that make Obama?

Hillary has already fought for healthcare reform for most of her professional career and has already talked about tuition reform multiple times.
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Let's not go down this road. Political spectrum purity tests are the most vapid place a conversation can go.
 
Health care reform that involves the insurance companies is the wrong kind of health care reform. People getting sick and dying or going bankrupt to stay alive shouldn't be a for-profit industry
 
Amirox flew too close to the sun.

I think the moral of the story is that you can be a dick to other posters. I liked his passion but he got personal way too quick. I blame Comey for it. it put him and all us Hillary supporters on edge and well nothing good comes when we become overly emotional.
 
dave is ok said:
Health care reform that involves the insurance companies is the wrong kind of health care reform. People getting sick and dying or going bankrupt to stay alive shouldn't be a for-profit industry
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Its almost like the republicans gutted the fuck out of the bill after making corporations literally people to attack Hillary for her stance on it and other things. Hillary has repeatedly stated that making corporations the enemy is a bad thing if we want a healthy economy. That doesn't mean she's selling us out, it means she realizes that American businesses can be of use if we work together by taxing them their fair share, not through punishment and consequences to where they don't want to compromise.
 
kingslunk said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Let's stop these Hitler comparisons. Every time I read one I get annoyed.

Trump is a xenophobe and everything in between but he's not hitler.
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He's not going to carry out another Holocaust, no, which means he's not on the same level.

Given his support among actual Nazis, white nationalists, etc., and given the proto-fascist nature of his campaign, I don't think comparing him to various historical fascist leaders is all that unfair, though.
 
dave is ok said:
She's center-right in my opinion. But I'm hopeful that she'll prove me wrong about her and she was just waiting all these years to become president and cut ties with all of her monied interests and bust out some super liberal healthcare and tuition reform.
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Clinton has been fighting for healthcare reform since Bill was in the big seat. Not too mention the DNC has adopted Sander's stance on tuition reform.
 
dave is ok said:
Health care reform that involves the insurance companies is the wrong kind of health care reform. People getting sick and dying or going bankrupt to stay alive shouldn't be a for-profit industry
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Agreed. As much as I hate to destroy indistries the health insurance industry is working against American's right to have healthcare services.
 
dave is ok said:
Health care reform that involves the insurance companies is the wrong kind of health care reform. People getting sick and dying or going bankrupt to stay alive shouldn't be a for-profit industry
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Which is why HRC tried to get this country universal health care in the 90's.

Which btw, is the reason the GOP started hating her so much in the first place.
 
dave is ok said:
Health care reform that involves the insurance companies is the wrong kind of health care reform. People getting sick and dying or going bankrupt to stay alive shouldn't be a for-profit industry
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We agree. I'm most in favor of a Singapore-style health savings plan backed by the government. Of course, I know it's next to impossible to sign a bill and instantly destroy the health insurance industry, putting millions out of work and wrecking the economy all at once. And if you decide that's a fair price to pay, then you're out of office your next term and all your work will be undone by the other party. You need to gradually build up to government controlled healthcare or you won't get it at all.

Not to mention the fact that it's going to be next to impossible for anyone to do anything till the teapartier's get their asses kicked out of Congress.
 
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