You don't even have to go back that far. Look a Gore and Kerry.
"They're boring". Dems are not voting in American Idol. We're voting for our rights.
Clinton campaign didn't do tracking polls for the last month, ignored Michigan issues
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You don't even have to go back that far. Look a Gore and Kerry.
"They're boring". Dems are not voting in American Idol. We're voting for our rights.
Smokey_Run
Member
butwhy.gif
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
all of the CA ones were fundraising.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
That's fucking bonkers. Wow.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Well considering she lost PA and her numbers in those areas were down from 2012...
For fuck's sake. I knew it had an effect, but not a 3 state dropoff
Skellig Gra
Member
Smh, atleast she won CA and NY
HammerOfThor
Member
paperboywriter
Member
you can blame a lot of people and you CAN criticize the pollsters. But they are not to blame.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
Fucking lol at the East Hampton one.
It's supposed to be Obama's.
NealMcCauley
Member
Looks more like a vacation than campaign schedule.
eyeball_kid
Member
I think her campaign just fundamentally misread the lay of the land. She adopted some of Bernie's platform policies without understanding (or caring?) why they were resonating with Rust Belt voters. I guess she thought southern minorities, city voters, and women would give her a strong win without worrying about why the historically Democrat labor vote was headed Trump's way.
Their campaign was so sure of themselves that they didn't even realize they were running an establishment campaign during a time of great populism and fear of the future. I think hubris is the right assessment, and had to start with her. It always seemed to me like for the campaign, and maybe her directly, it was already a done deal. The "I'm With Her" message put the spotlight on her, not the voters.
Of course I'd be lying if I said I thought she'd lose, but I always thought her campaign and message were a bad sales pitch in a populist atmosphere.
ErasureAcer
Banned
You win the NeoGAF 2016 Journalism Award.
Superdelegates practically emboldened Clinton to do no campaigning in person or via media in the primary and she did the same in the General.
A late endorsement of Bernie in the primary probably saved Rick Nolan. Heck it might have even saved Blue Dog Colin Peterson who also supported him in a vague way(I'm not showing up but if he needs me to I'll vote for him). Walz in MN-01 was in the closest race in MN...he did NOT endorse Bernie at any point.
God this is so depressing. So many weird and bad choices. So many horrible decisions. So much missed opportunity. All because we had the mantra about Hillary Clinton being "The Candidate that was promised" for decades and when the time finally came to ask why the people doing it were told to shut up while the Prophecy Child was praised for mishandling her Campaign.
I am thinking now, in retrospect, if Hillary were a man. I would have absolutely expected her to lose. With all the things she did and all the baggage she had during this election, if this were someone else, some male Democrat, I would have expected a defeat.I got blinded by having the First Female President after the First Black President
I am thinking now, in retrospect, if Hillary were a man. I would have absolutely expected her to lose. With all the things she did and all the baggage she had during this election, if this were someone else, some male Democrat, I would have expected a defeat.I got blinded by having the First Female President after the First Black President
mugurumakensei
Member
Bolded is where Clinton should have focused, and Obama did.
old manatee
Banned
Thanks Clinton. Thanks DNC.
People are new to politics I see.
Right now, everyone in the Clinton campaign is tossing people under a bus to try and save their reputation and jobs. That's how these things work, in all campaigns. You'll hear lots of stories about failures and errors - which you wouldn't have ever heard if they had won. Lots of them will be untrue.
For the people saying she should have been in Michigan and Wisconsin - she was ahead in the polls there by ridiculous margins. Not just her polls, all the polls. The only place she wasn't ahead in was Donald Trumps' head. You don't pour resources into a state where you lead by 10 points on average and have never, ever been behind in a poll. Let's not forget - Republicans thought he had lost those states as well. Obama's people, the genius's behind 208 and 2012, made these mistakes as well remember. EVERYONE did, including the republicans.
(Let's also not forget she has been pouring resources into Pennsylvania the entire campaign, and that didn't work out either).
Right now, everyone in the Clinton campaign is tossing people under a bus to try and save their reputation and jobs. That's how these things work, in all campaigns. You'll hear lots of stories about failures and errors - which you wouldn't have ever heard if they had won. Lots of them will be untrue.
For the people saying she should have been in Michigan and Wisconsin - she was ahead in the polls there by ridiculous margins. Not just her polls, all the polls. The only place she wasn't ahead in was Donald Trumps' head. You don't pour resources into a state where you lead by 10 points on average and have never, ever been behind in a poll. Let's not forget - Republicans thought he had lost those states as well. Obama's people, the genius's behind 208 and 2012, made these mistakes as well remember. EVERYONE did, including the republicans.
(Let's also not forget she has been pouring resources into Pennsylvania the entire campaign, and that didn't work out either).
I feel this is why Obama felt the need to break with what he was doing and really come out and campaign. He and his team must be fucking fuming.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
That just tells me more about what a terrible campaign was run.
gamechanger87
Member
She spent her time wining and dining for fundraising rather than campaigning. She needed the Katy Perry money to fund the very successful ad campaign she ran.
You mean unlike the Trump campaign, which literally said "Only I can save you".
Campaigns talk about their candidates. It's what they do. In his own words, Obama said he was an "empty vessel into which people poured their hopes". Others described it as a cult of personality. Either way - his campaign was about him, and his story.,
Michael Moore didn't. Joe Biden didn't. Bill Clinton didn't. athey brought the concerns up. People just chose to not listen to them as they bathed in the idea of Hillary already being president.
Precisely this.
We had similar "one staffer said" stories about Bernie Sanders' complete collapse during the primaries.
So if that's the case why was she in California and New York so goddamn much?
Then you had all these people warning her and her Campaign staff to do exactly the things she didn't do. No this isn't an understandable mistake, this is arrogance that like all arrogance was rewarded with the reality of the situation.
Sirpopopop
Member
He didn't really make her work that hard.
She never hit him hard on any of the controversies he had. (Read: wife's job at a Vermont college, his 1972 essay, the Russian honeymoon, etc.)
She won the popular vote by nearly 4,000,000 votes.
She won by nearly over a 1,000 delegates.
Contrast that to 2008 which was an actual race where candidates had to work to win, and was far closer than 2016. Obama too, also started from a disadvantage against Clinton. He was just a far better candidate than Bernie and overcame it.
So why do you think someone that got blown out by someone who lost to Donald Trump would have beaten Donald Trump? Some polls? The same polls that looked good for Clinton coming into the night?
Do you honestly think the DNC completely rigged the election against Bernie? What they did to help Clinton didn't materially help her that much...
A. Bernie still did fine in the debates.
B. The DNC's distaste for Clinton didn't lead to any vote rigging.
Joe Biden and Bill Clinton have been saying that for over a decade. Obama deliberately ignored them in 2012, overriding both of them on the campaign decisions (read the campaign books and they explain in detail how Obama deliberately decided to not go with Joe's instincts on white working class voters. That worked out just fine.
Dash_Riprock
Member
You also don't sink millions trying to flip states that have been solidly red for years and in which you have never, ever led in a poll.
Obama is probably the greatest orator of the 21st century.
Clinton is not.
ProfessorMoran
Member
They deserved to lose, pure arrogance.
Smokey_Run
Member
She lost Michigan to Sanders when she was polling 20-25 points ahead of him.
Oh, and Hillary thought she was Obama too, yeah? This is the arrogance we're talking about. Hanging around in New York having a good time instead of looking at where she made a bad performance against Bernie.
old manatee
Banned
Clinton needed to sleep in her own bed every night during the most important election of modern times for reasons.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Well she also regularly going to CA, so it certainly wasn't a proximity issue
How is that relevant here? The main issue was a complete mess of demographic weighting because of the state's torrid history with primaries (none since 2000, and dodgy before that as well). There was no basis for the weighting.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Exactly. Seems to me she was more concerned about raising money than she was about getting out the vote. I might be able to understand if she was being outspent or if Trump's campaign had showed it was raising a lot of money but it wasn't. He barely spent anything compared to her. His campaign was broke by comparison.
Smokey_Run
Member
Oh, I don't know, we just lost Michigan when we were up 20 points, maybe we should find out what happened and learn from it so we're not blindsided in the general election?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i think we are forgetting she was putting up historically bad unlikable numbers. she may have done worse for the campaign if she showed up in the areas everyone is saying she should have gone to.
we don't know all of the machinery of the campaign.
eyeball_kid
Member
People wanted Obama's story in 2008; the hope and change that he offered were like water in a desert after eight years of Bush and two wars. 2016 is not 2008. Part of the country is doing well, part of it is not. The Rust Belt wanted someone who offered an extended hand, someone who said, "We haven't forgotten about you, we're going to lift you up" and had policies to back that up.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Yeah but the scarier thing in that article is if Trump is able to realign the Republican Party to a worker/labor party. If he is able to do that, then the Democratic Party is fucked. Well it's already fucked, but it'll be damn near dead. Social issues alone won't get anyone elected at this point.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...m-saw-a-different-america-and-they-were-right
pirateluigi
Member
She lost Michigan to Sanders despite a huge lead in the polls and Nate Silver kept pointing out that we didn't have reliable polls for Michigan late in the ge campaign. She should have taken the Midwest a lot more seriously and definitely spent mote time in places other than Ann Arbor and Detroit where she was guaranteed votes. And visited Wisconsin at least once.
It's not like it was a secret that rural voters liked Trump because they felt like they weren't being heard by the dems. An effort to make those voters think she cared about their issues at all could have made up the slim margins she lost by.
I don't think shes just introverted - I think she doesn't like certain Americans - I mean I really didn't see her talking to the working class...anywhere?
EatinOlives
Member
This is exactly what I've been saying, and yet there were people telling me that she lost because Clinton and her supporters were being "too mean" to Trump and his.
lol
The hell. She should've showed up there. Not showing up is worse from where I stand, as the people will feel like they don't matter to you and because you can't refute misconceptions. Be there, tell them you care for them too and explain why your policies woukd benefit them.
freethoughtbubble
Member
That's a good point but good lord what does say about her as a candidate? Not being able to step foot somewhere for fear that your mere presence will harm your chances is the textbook example of being toxic. Radioactive, even.
I think she did visit the sheetmetal union hall here in STL, but that was during the primaries.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
It says that he fought an uphill battle against name recognition, a flagrantly biased DNC with a clear agenda, and a candidate that establishment Democrats loved despite decades of baggage that would drag her down in the primaries.
The party pushed a legacy candidate in what was clearly a change election.
Yep. "America never stopped being great" probably backfired there pretty hard.
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