And it is cool that he does that. That is his choice, but it should not be expected of everyone.
Which is what these threads advocate, the onus is put on the oppressed to convince the oppressor
Vox: Research says there are ways to reduce racism. Calling people racist isnt one.
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And it is cool that he does that. That is his choice, but it should not be expected of everyone.
Which is what these threads advocate, the onus is put on the oppressed to convince the oppressor
Frozenprince
Banned
New page, saying it again.
There is nothing new about the way we approach intolerance, we've been doing it for a long, long, long fucking god damn time.
Y'all aren't coming up with novel new ideas that we just haven't tried before and "eureka this will cure racism!"
There is nothing new about the way we approach intolerance, we've been doing it for a long, long, long fucking god damn time.
Y'all aren't coming up with novel new ideas that we just haven't tried before and "eureka this will cure racism!"
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Well, given that "white moderates" are starting to put the responsibility on minorities to empathise with bigots...
Even though you're gone, I did want to respond to this.
For whatever little discomfort you feel on Gaf. Minorities have to go through it every day of their life. You're basically comparing a mild annoyance on a singular videogame forum to others' right to exist.
I'm willing, depending on the circumstances to give someone in my generation a chance to talk frankly about what is offensive and why, but in my experience so far(and relating to Trump's larger voting block) the most ignorant and explicit racists are also relatively old to old. It's just that much harder of a pill to swallow when someone whose lived twice your lifetime doesn't fucking understand yet.
Frozenprince
Banned
Out of all the shit, this is the best.
"You're making them (the center/"moderates" who voted Trump) feel uncomfortable"
Well gee fucking wiz I wouldn't know anything about what that's like. Uncomfortable, try when you feel actively unsafe when you go home for the holidays cause you're worried some crazy motherfucker will see your pride stickers and shoot you dead.
Try living in abject fear of the majority oppressing you again.
Then get back to me with being "uncomfortable".
the civil war was fought to end slavery
Darryl M R
Member
Are moderate whites really thinking they are coming up with new solutions for POC to deal with racists? I respect those GAF threads that are addressing white people made by a white OP. I tend to lurk in those threads but never post because I appreciate the gesture that this is an effort they need to lead.
Bro you've been spitting nothing but knowledge in this thread but I'm going to need you to upgrade to 100page/thread.
Bro you've been spitting nothing but knowledge in this thread but I'm going to need you to upgrade to 100page/thread.
Asch Experiment maybe not convert but fall in line. This video may not apply but it sure as hell feels like it with the media tip toeing around shit lately. All the more reason it is important to say no fuck that.
Frozenprince
Banned
My phone barely handles 50.
I think there's just advocacy for people in general to be part of positive change IF they can.
If you don't have the energy or safety to deal with racists, by all means don't.
But insulting and negatively engaging them often just entrenches their prejudices.
Darryl M R
Member
Want me to send you the Obama Phone 7s?
Frozenprince
Banned
No I'm done hearing this. This "there's only one way that works" nonsense.
No, there isn't, if being called a racist makes you more racist then fuck them they ain't worth the time.
This "you need to advocate the right way" shit is just another way of putting all the onus and responsibility on we the oppressed to fight back against our oppressors, and I am done hearing it.
This is true only the for the U.S. and its territories. Elsewhere within the British Empire Abolitionism was a social movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Effecting_the_Abolition_of_the_Slave_Trade
Did we stop? There are thousands of organizations doing great things. People thought we stopped after "I have a dream". These articles just want them to do it the right way, quiet and out of their face.
Personally I won't engage with someone at all that calls me a "coon" or tells me to go back to Africa. Cause there is little time in the day. But I am still going to call a spade a spade
Better thread for OP and other white moderates/leftists: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1315797
Xisiqomelir
Member
Good article.
Thread going as expected. Given the choice between political success and smug self-superiority, it's disappointing to see posters withdraw deeper into the echo chamber rather than start strategizing for victory.
Thread going as expected. Given the choice between political success and smug self-superiority, it's disappointing to see posters withdraw deeper into the echo chamber rather than start strategizing for victory.
Then be done hearing it. I don't care. Attend a lecture on prejudice in social psychology classes and they will tell you that the proven way to reverse prejudice is calm, repetitive exposure to truth over time. As well as exposure to the prejudiced class itself. This is how we teach in school. You get calmly exposed to subject matter repeatedly over years.
It isn't about you or whoever, its scientific research that this is how human psychology works, and any confrontation with a bigot will either do nothing, or entrench their prejudice further, or contribute to their education process.
I get it. I'm Hispanic and bisexual, I've had to deal with some level of bigotry.
I don't always want to engage people on these topics. It's exhausting and hurtful. It's not worth it for me sometimes.
But I see the best results when I can have a conversation and explain my perspective calmly.
RyougaSaotome
Member
This is everything right here.
It is an effective test of the study's theory, when you challenge someone's beliefs they react defensively.
much of the Caribbean violently fought for their liberation as well
Frozenprince
Banned
....
Yes we are smug because we want take the time to educate racists with readily available information.
Captin Quacker
Member
Gotdatmoney
Member
So we figured out the cure to solving racism only after Trump won eh?
co-sign
I agree. It's not a valid argument ever to make.
Do I understand why it drives people away? Yes. But the people it drives away have no intention anyways of changing their insight. Since they are running away from self reflection and realizing their own fallacies and looking at any little minor thing to blame. Why should you care about their fucking feelings when they are actively taking your rights as a human away? They need to grow the fuck up and see that for themselves that their own comfort is bullshit next too what is at stake for other people.
So no, any sort of mild annoyance I or anyone else may feel towards people passionate about making sure their rights to exist are there... is on par with me taking my head out of my ass and realizing I'm not the only person in the world. It's a complete bullshit reason of the highest order.
I think John Oliver said it best, even if they are racist, you have no problem supporting one. Which is basically saying you don't give a fuck about anyone else but yourself. So in the end... you're ass is still racist anyways. You just aren't honest about it.
Audioboxer
Member
The science of the brain doesn't matter when emotion is in play. As I've said in here though you cannot expect humanity at large to ditch emotion and all be some hollow scientists. If a few hadn't been so eager to jump on my posts you'd realise the intricacies were easily followed. The onus isn't on any member of a minority (or the oppressed/victims). The onus is on the oppressor to change. However there are people in society on your side who tackle things in various ways. Those people cannot and should not be called assholes, enablers or sympathisers. Many like yourself may be in places of education. Others in medical and rehabilitation fields. Others in correctional fields such as prisons and counselling.
There is no one shoe fits all other than to say it is up to the oppressor to change on their own time, or if they are privileged in gaining the effort of a fellow human to try and help them change, it is still up to them. On a broader and diluted scope this can apply to how everyday citizens cope with and combat discrimination and oppression. You don't need to be a clinical psychologist like I will hopefully be one day, or a correctional officer. Everyday people can attempt different tactics.
Calling out and having zero tolerance is a fine tactic. It's just not the only one or the one you have to subscribe to or you're an "x". Hence why a study like the OP one can exist and not necessarily be untrue or some heretical garbage.
Captin Quacker
Member
Frozenprince
Banned
No, they will tell you A way to overcome prejudice is to do so. Not the proven way. You're acting like it's scientific consensus when it isn't. You're basing academia in its bubble divorced from real world interactivity.
call_kotaku
Member
If we can't discuss these issues among ourselves using the "real" words because it might upset conservatives, then all we're doing is self-censoring and normalizing the status quo. And science isn't about removing your emotions or biases from your work, it's about being open about being wrong and letting your peers review your findings; you don't say stuff to find people who agree with you, you say stuff to challenge or be challenged on your conclusions. A ton of real progress has been made on social issues by people having honest and direct discourse, it doesn't make all of that irrelevant just because ignorant people still exist. I believe you're mischaracterizing the process of discourse.
And in any case, it's broadly not helpful to minorities to talk about empathy and then in turn say that it's not effective for them to advocate, even if you really mean it. White people have a history of saying they support racial equality and then being unwilling to do anything towards that goal, or saying they want to support social justice but only up to the point where it stops making them feel good about their personal moral stand. If you act like you'll only support them if you feel like you're getting credit ("I'm not racist, I voted for Obama!"), then there's no way they'll ever believe you truly empathize with their struggles.
Nobody is saying you don't mean well, really. They're just saying that what you're trying to do can be very hurtful, because it's what "allies" always do to de-legitimize strategies that are actually pretty effective since it forces them to actually stand up for the ideals they support.
Professor Beef
Banned
"That's the spirit!" - Alt Right
All I know is what I learned in social psychology (just 1 course though, could be wrong) which the professor presented to us the latest research on prejudice and racism, so while it may not be indisputable or consensus, it's what we've got, as far as I know.
There is a difference between a discussion on what is the effective way to combat human prejudice and a discussion on whose responsibility it is to do so.
I agree that I think these tactics are most successful coming from the privileged instead of the oppressed. As a light-skinned Latino without any Latino accent, I take it upon myself to defend Hispanics who are discriminated. But I would never tell it's an oppressed class' responsibility to perform these tactics. That's in a complete opposite direction of my assertion.
I don't think it's any particular person's job to combat or not combat prejudice. The truth is that humans behave this way and it's a human problem. Believe it or not, everyone has ingrained prejudices (slight or severe, it's an evolutionary remnant of our past when we had to make quick judgments on foes based on appearance) and what I described is what research says is the most effective way to combat even the most entrenched prejudices. So if you want to decrease prejudice, that is how to do it. But you don't have to.
Desparadina
Member
Lmao I guess we minorities are just smug assholes every time we retaliate against bigots. We think too much of ourselves when someone is bigoted towards us, we have to look at the bigger picture and just let them shit on us so we can win an election! I mean how far are we going to stoop here?
HiredN00bs
Banned
Hardly. The methods discussed here and in other psychological studies are for everyone. They are as pertinent to whites trying to enlighten their families as people of color. And it applies to any sort of change in the status quo, not just bigotry.
It's not enough to be right. We have to be effective. The more effective we are in changing hearts and minds, the less people will suffer.
Which group are you referring to here?
It's clearly not white people, because you've complained about people mentioning white people twice now:
so it is clearly not directed at white people.
Do you often use "fam" or did you decide to use it sarcastically because you're having a discussion with a particular group of people... fam?
Via Purifico
Banned
Yup, funniest shit i've heard all day.
I guess these suspects weren't nice enough to the racist
https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/1289168021105985/
Frozenprince
Banned
Then why is it that we've been trying this method for decades with damn near 0 progress?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
This is a good post. It's sad that so many in the thread aren't actually understanding what the article is saying.
We toss around terms like White Privilege all the time, and yes it exists and is a real thing. Yet it doesn't do anything but entrench other when it's constantly pointed out. When you call someone a racist for pretty much anything these days, a lot of folks just roll with it eventually.
Hillary's "deplorable" comment is a likely huge cause of her losing. Because it wasn't viewed as being just about the fringe Trump supporters, but by a lot of moderate ones who basically responded on the ballot with a big "fuck you then" on the ballot.
The typical response someone will have to being attacked is to attack back or further their belief as being correct, even if they are wrong.
Painting with broad brush is always bad, and always has consequences against what the point you are trying to make.
Audioboxer
Member
I've never asked for word policing. I never do. What I did ask is for more effort and sanity to be used when the left addresses fellow lefties on many occasions. When the emotions get the better of some they just come back with "fuck you, fuck this, you're an X". As I said I can empathise with emotion but this blunderbuss approach is becoming more prevalent on the left and is alienating fellow liberals.
You and I have just had an exchange where we are sharing different viewpoints on this, without getting catty at each other. At times it's often challenging to do that around the difficult topics we can't ignore.
Well ultimately as I said the responsibility is always up to the oppressor. If your government has the ability to get involved it can. Outside of that anyone putting in any effort is doing so on their own time, sanity and health. Which is why I never have a problem with many responses on GAF which are zero tolerance, fuck them. My 2 cents comes in when that extends to people getting pissy others don't necessarily share the same outlook or solution as they do. Which plays into me railing on the left and this almost authoritarian like movement seeping in where you almost have to do things the way you are told or it's at your own peril.
I would be most awful in my field of work if my response to every client was "fuck you, you sort it out yourself you piece of shit". I accept this is my choice to think the way I do, but I'll say it again I don't argue for people to think like I do, I argue for some sort of respect for me and others to approach complex human problems in a variety of ways without being looked down on. I can still condone all the heinous shit people do while trying various ways of my own to openly discuss it and hopefully tackle it. If at the end of the day I ultimately fail to do much to tackle something, I at least want an open discussion in a pursuit of truth and results, not crucified alive for not conforming to someones way of thinking who sees themselves as superior to me in some way.
To me that is part of what it means to be liberal, and of course, open minded. Not to say I know best or I'm right, but here are my thoughts, can they be improved/challenged or expanded?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Maybe if people actually answered serious questions when asked instead of lobbing "fam" from inside their own echo chambers of smug self-superiority
Nah, that's asking too much
Frozenprince
Banned
Funny.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Looking at it from an argumental standpoint, this will always be the case. Want to change someone's mind? The onus is on you, not them. Im not saying that's how it should be, that its right or fair, just the way it is.
I have no idea how many times people have to explain this stuff to you an others :/
But why must I prove my humanity, constantly? And if I don't anything that happens to me is my fault?
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
How so? It's a grossly ineffective way to get your point across.
What point do we have to get across here?
Frozenprince
Banned
Don't paint people in broad strokes, in a post, painting people in broad strokes, in a thread, painting people in broad strokes.
Nah.
Racism doesn't get a pass just because "you catch more flys" shit. That's the point.
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