Support NeoGAF

[Tyaren]

Didn't they appear with noctis in the afterlife very briefly?
I wasn't sure what was that

It's up for debate really. And I think that was exactly SE's intention.
The 4 bros were in the afterlife scene but appeared very briefly just before Ardyn's eyes, as Luna and also Regis did.
When the camera changed back to Noctis' view he was alone with Ardyn again.
It's an old anime trope that while giving the baddie the final blow all friends come together, even if worlds apart, and deliver that blow as one. I think that scene was meant to give more importance to the bros' and Luna's contribution.

The other post credit scene around the campfire took place before the 4 bros entered Insomnia to fight Ardyn. You could see their chairs and the extinct campfire when the sun rose over the world again. They just placed that scene after the credits for more punch.

I personally don't think they died. They would totally be able to handle the daemons Noctis left them with before he went up the stairs to sacrifice himself. The guys held out for ten years without Noctis and even on their own as Talcott told us.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I can say the same thing about them being dead. Since every major death is either shown or explicitly stated within the game I'd argue that the bros are alive since there's no point in killing them off nor any suggestion of their deaths.

But there are reasons to believe they are dead based on what we see, such as the bros in the afterlife. It has been interpreted many ways, but it is at least something. Whereas we don't see them alive again after this point.

 

[hamchan]

Bros are probably alive because Noctis would have hurried a bit if they were actually in mortal danger.

 

[SkylineRKR]

It's up for debate really. And I think that was exactly SE's intention.
The 4 bros were in the afterlife scene but appeared very briefly just before Ardyn's eyes, as Luna and also Regis did.
When the camera changed back to Noctis' view he was alone with Ardyn again.
It's an old anime trope that while giving the baddie the final blow all friends come together, even if worlds apart, and deliver that blow as one. I think that scene was meant to give more importance to the bros and to Luna.

The other post credit scene around the campfire took place before the 4 bros entered Insomnia to fight Ardyn. You could see their chairs and the extinct campfire when the sun rose over the world again. They just placed that scene after the credits for more punch.

I personally don't think they died. They would totally be able to handle the daemons Noctis left them with before he went up the stairs to sacrifice himself. The guys held out for ten years without Noctis and even on their own as Talcott told us.

They even held up in the chapter 13 onslaught after Ravus. Iff that couldn't kill them, then a few Iron Giants 10 years later certainly can't.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I can say the same thing about them being dead. Since every major death is either shown or explicitly stated within the game I'd argue that the bros are alive since there's no point in killing them off nor any suggestion of their deaths.

Er...when we have so many plot points generally off screen ornot mentioned in the game in the first place, that makes as little sense as possible to assume in my view.

The narrative that the bros gave their lives for Noctis to save the world and everyone having to do with Insomnia and the game being offed, showing up in the afterlife to contribute in some way to the final battle is a lot more definitive and in line with Tabata's previous work than whatever pretzel one can think up to keep the 3 bros alive after the end of the game.

 

[Clear]

Dedicated enthusiasts are often a fairly smart bunch. I'm pleased to see that holds true here.

Armchair quarterbacking isn't anything like the real thing. Sketching outlines in a handful of paragraphs is easy; detailing, finessing and executing is hard and can often result in something quite different than what any individual had in mind at the outset.

At which point the uncomfortable reality sets in: How do you make what you've got fit together in time, when the bean-counters and senior management are breathing down your neck?

 

[Vincent Alexander]

It's up for debate really. And I think that was exactly SE's intention.
The 4 bros were in the afterlife scene but appeared very briefly just before Ardyn's eyes, as Luna and also Regis did.
When the camera changed back to Noctis' view he was alone with Ardyn again.
It's an old anime trope that while giving the baddie the final blow all friends come together, even if worlds apart, and deliver that blow as one. I think that scene was meant to give more importance to the bros' and Luna's contribution.

Agreed. Up for debate. But I've seen this point before about seeing Noctis alone after we get back to Noctis view. When I rewatced clip, the camera is too zoomed in to see anybody even if they were there. But let's say Noctis was truly alone---it wouldn't mean much since we know Regis and Luna are definitely dead. So if they were gone along with bros, they are still just as likely to be dead.

I'm confident they all died. Then Cor and Aranea hooked up, set the world straight, and had little dragoon babies to begin a new royal line.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Of course there is a point, is up to them to reconstruct Lucis, Noctis choose them to do so, he alreasy says so. Also the last words Noctis says to the bros are the very same last words that Regis says to him before the road trip, in the game opening. He's passing the flag to them like Regis did.

Noctis literally says nothing about the bros reconstructing Lucius. Nor does Noctis saying what Regis says imply that they survived.

Bros are probably alive because Noctis would have hurried a bit if they were actually in mortal danger.

He knew what they were there for, and they did as well. There was no need to make sure they survived, that was their mission that they saw through.

 

[Milkncooke]

But there are reasons to believe they are dead based on what we see, such as the bros in the afterlife. It has been interpreted many ways, but it is at least something. Whereas we don't see them alive again after this point.

No one is shown alive at the end. The bros in the afterlife can be atributed to "the power of friendship." I'll reiterate that the game doesn't imply any deaths. Aranea, Cindy, Iris and even Cid are all said to be alive at the end but never seen. All the deaths in game happen on screen, even Regis'.

The bros dying also lessens the impact of Noctis' sacrifice. Noctis himself seems to think his friends will be alright, essentially handing the kingdom to them. At the end of chapter 13 the bros are alive after fighting a daemon horde and the end of the game takes place 10 years later in a world where the bros are all accomplished daemon hunters in their own right.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

No one is shown alive at the end. The bros in the afterlife can be atributed to "the power of friendship." I'll reiterate that the game doesn't imply any deaths. Aranea, Cindy, Iris and even Cid are all said to be alive at the end but never seen. All the deaths in game happen on screen, even Regis'.

The bros dying also lessens the impact of Noctis' sacrifice. Noctis himself seems to think his friends will be alright, essentially handing the kingdom to them. At the end of chapter 13 the bros are alive after fighting a daemon horde and the end of the game takes place 10 years later in a world where the bros are all accomplished daemon hunters in their own right.

It just seems a litle silly that they would throw in the bros in that scene just to show power of friendship, when we just had a scene dedicated to their friendship on the stairs as Noctis heads up to throne. And again, we technically never see Luna's death either.

As for them surviving 10 years....yeah. Logically it makes sense they could've handled those guys at stairs. But this game's logic is a pretty huge mess all around, so it's hard to support certain scenes based on other ones when we have such an incoherent mess in terms of cohesion.

 

[Tyaren]

After watching the scene again I am surer than ever the bros are not actually there in the afterlife but it is Ardyn imagining them for a split second.

https://youtu.be/lp_bWkfbH14?t=18m43s

They are only there when Ardyn looks over to Noctis. Then he erratically shakes his head and they are gone, like they were only a vision. Then only Noctis is there to defeat him with Luna's assistance.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

It's one small point (Ardyn seeing them for a split second straight out of an anime or other game) versus everything else.

The game was spelling out how things were going to end as far back as the end of chapter 13.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

And again, we technically never see Luna's death either.

Noctis: ...And Luna?
Ignis: She has passed
Me: HAHAHAHA

 

[Ruff]

I watched the ending again and I just noticed Regis is also standing next to the chocobros during the ending scene. Completely missed that the first time around.

 

[jiggle]

But then again
You'd think they'd be rewarded with an afterlife too and be at the wedding

But no knows
Since Regis is such a dick

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Noctis: ...And Luna?
Ignis: She has passed
Me: HAHAHAHA

.....that is dialogue....

After watching the scene again I am surer than ever the bros are not actually there in the afterlife but it is Ardyn imagining them for a split second.

https://youtu.be/lp_bWkfbH14?t=18m43s

They are only there when Ardyn looks over to Noctis. Then he erraticly shakes his head and they are gone, like they were only a vision. Then only Noctis is there to defeat him with Luna's assistance.

Hrm. The camera zooms out more than I remember, and you definitely don't see them again. Honestly not certain what to take from this scene. I don't know if I want the bros to be dead or not, but I do know the idea of "friendship power" really makes me wanna throw up, therefore I hope they're dead.

 

[Yoshichan]

Aight so 13 hours, final chapter. Not bad.

 

[Milkncooke]

Luna's death is shown in one of the few pre rendered scenes which is immediately followed by Ignis reiterating her passing and the flower in the book as proof. It's pretty blatant.

You also get her trident as one of the Royal Arms which can't happen unless the original wielder is dead.

 

[toastyToast]

I watched the ending again and I just noticed Regis is also standing next to the chocobros during the ending scene. Completely missed that the first time around.

Everyone other than the bros is dead like I said earlier. It's strange to say the least. Then they show the camp with a bunch of empty chairs and then Noct's after credit speech which reads slightly different if you consider that none of them survive. It definitely isn't clear cut.

 

[CLBridges]

I was just thinking about the whole "world of ruin" end part. Kinda wish they would've pulled a FFVI where you had to go get your bros in different locations and then head on to Insomnia. I remember Talcott mentioning that the bros weren't always together after Noct went AWOL, they could've expanded on that. Man, just thinking about all the scenarios and story bits that could've been, the potential was major.

Still a great game though.

 

[HeelPower]

Aight so 13 hours, final chapter. Not bad.

How do you feel about the game on second playthrough ?

Newfound appreciation ? Magnified hatred & loathing ?lol

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Luna's death is shown in one of the few pre rendered scenes which is immediately followed by Ignis reiterating her passing and the flower in the book as proof. It's pretty blatant.

The only point I'm making is that you see her stabbed, but her corpse is never recovered. We don't see her explicity killed on screen like claimed.

Everyone other than the bros is dead like I said earlier. It's strange to say the least. Then they show the camp with a bunch of empty chairs and then Noct's after credit speech which reads slightly different if you consider that none of them survive. It definitely isn't clear cut.

Right here is strongest proof they are dead. No way they leave those nice ass Coleman chairs behind if alive.

 

[Yoshichan]

How do you feel about the game on second playthrough ?

Newfound appreciation ? Magnified hatred & loathing ?lol

It's a terrible experience to rush because 80% of the time I'm forced to walk and/or I can't skip dialogue cutscenes

 

[HeelPower]

The only point I'm making is that you see her stabbed, but her corpse is never recovered. We don't see her explicity killed on screen like claimed.

Did we really need to see her still corpse ?

That would've been tasteless & grotesque.

Oh wait...we do see it at the end...

It's a terrible experience to rush because 80% of the time I'm forced to walk and/or I can't skip dialogue cutscenes

Yup.

Its kind of the RE6 of the series.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Hmmm...

https://twitter.com/amy_shiels/status/807881383553224704

This is telling us something isn't it? lol, there's no way Luna could ever win that poll.

 

[toastyToast]

Did we really need to see her still corpse ?

That would've been tasteless & grotesque.

They could have done a funeral instead of a time skip.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Did we really need to see her still corpse ?

That would've been tasteless & grotesque.

Absolutely not---we didn't need to see. I like how they did it. I am being picky, but truly my only goal was to say this below isn't completey true.

All the deaths in game happen on screen, even Regis'.

Oh wait...we do see it at the end

Yeah...I'm still not certain how I feel about seeing their corpses.
Though they aren't real.

 

[Rad Shadow]

What are yout thoughts on chapters in general?

My feeling: RPG don't need them. Just keep the game going. The player knows when a new plot points is thrown in their face.

 

[HeelPower]

They could have done a funeral instead of a time skip.

Absolutely not---we didn't need to see. I like how they did it. I am being picky, but truly my only goal was to say this below isn't completey true.

Well you got this.

 

[Milkncooke]

Absolutely not---we didn't need to see. I like how they did it. I am being picky, but truly my only goal was to say this below isn't completey true.





Yeah...I'm still not certain how I feel about seeing their corpses.
Though they aren't real.

Dude, there was a CGI death scene for Luna. It might have been a sort of dream sequence but it was definitely meant to be a death scene.

 

[JeffZero]

What are yout thoughts on chapters in general?

My feeling: RPG don't need them. Just keep the game going. The player knows when a new plot points is thrown in their face.

I don't like them.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

What are yout thoughts on chapters in general?

I really hate chapters in ANY rpg. I'm always paranoid about them being short especially if I'm having a good time in the story. I prefer an rpg that doesn't tell you that you moved to the next chapter at all and instead gives closure to what would be the end of a segment. Unfortunately, FFXV does that horribly.

 

[Manu]

I was just thinking about the whole "world of ruin" end part. Kinda wish they would've pulled a FFVI where you had to go get your bros in different locations and then head on to Insomnia. I remember Talcott mentioning that the bros weren't always together after Noct went AWOL, they could've expanded on that. Man, just thinking about all the scenarios and story bits that could've been, the potential was major.

Still a great game though.

I think this was the plan but it had to be scrapped, according to the leak thread.

 

[JeffZero]

I really hate chapters in ANY rpg. I'm always paranoid about them being short especially if I'm having a good time in the story. I prefer an rpg that doesn't tell you that you moved to the next chapter at all and instead gives closure to what would be the end of a segment. Unfortunately, FFXV does that horribly.

Right. This is my issue as well. Chapters tend to make games feel shorter to me. I, too, get caught up in noticing when they're short. And if repeatedly happens, I begin to worry.

Games of similar length to FFXV with far better flow probably come across as longer to me.

 

[APZonerunner]

Absolutely not---we didn't need to see. I like how they did it. I am being picky, but truly my only goal was to say this below isn't completey true.

Yeah...I'm still not certain how I feel about seeing their corpses.
Though they aren't real.

I really like the thing in the throne room (Nyx is out of place, ultimately - I think what would've been cool would've been somebody new you didn't know had died in the gap, like Cor) but, yeah -- I wonder, actually. The way Luna is just sort of gone is interesting to me.

That 4chan leak from the guy who claims to have worked as a contractor on the game I actually believe, and if what he says is true - Luna scenes being cut out of worry the game would be called out for representation/sexism/treatment of women, I wonder if more clarity on her death was part of that -- IE seeing her corpse in a more real way. It was especially weird to have her funeral - or at least a vigil - reported in the background on the radio in later chapters. It felt like something that they probably should've cut to, or actually had Noctis & the guys hear on the radio and react to in a cutscene rather than just during gameplay with no acknowledgement.

Certainly, they cut all those scenes of her being beat as a kid.

 

[toastyToast]

The Witcher 3 did acts which was more in the literary sense but even that was jarring since 80% of what you do in that game is act 1.

 

[Tyaren]

Yeah...I'm still not certain how I feel about seeing their corpses.
Though they aren't real.

You really are picky, lol. The corpses are not real when they suddenly vanish...but the bros are real in the afterlife even though they suddenly vanish too and are only seen by Ardyn.

but I do know the idea of "friendship power" really makes me wanna throw up, therefore I hope they're dead.

You are a terrible person. XD

 

[Bladenic]

The hanging corpses is one of the best things in the game's story.

Ardyn is just too awesome.

 

[JeffZero]

The Witcher 3 did acts which was more in the literary sense but even that was jarring since 80% of what you do in that game is act 1.

Ugh, it hurts just picturing all the "wow, 70 hours, still in Act 1, is this game 300 hours lol" posts that game must have received.

Sets such crazy expectations. FFXV: "30 hours, Chapter 3. Game must be huuuuge."

 

[LiK]

After watching the scene again I am surer than ever the bros are not actually there in the afterlife but it is Ardyn imagining them for a split second.

https://youtu.be/lp_bWkfbH14?t=18m43s

They are only there when Ardyn looks over to Noctis. Then he erratically shakes his head and they are gone, like they were only a vision. Then only Noctis is there to defeat him with Luna's assistance.

Correct. It's just symbolism.

 

[kiaaa]

Ugh, it hurts just picturing all the "wow, 70 hours, still in Act 1, is this game 300 hours lol" posts that game must have received.

Sets such crazy expectations. FFXV: "30 hours, Chapter 3. Game must be huuuuge."

Meh, most of that is self-driven due to the open world. Even up to chapter 3 in FFXV can go pretty fast.

 

[Yabberwocky]

What are yout thoughts on chapters in general?

My feeling: RPG don't need them. Just keep the game going. The player knows when a new plot points is thrown in their face.

Not a fan at all, especially in a video game where chapters can have such varying lengths. FFXV also drove me crazy with the frequency of the quest completion screens, especially since they were huge and in the center of the screen. FFXV felt really 'game-y' at times, and it would throw me out of the experience. It was a shame, too, because the devs went through a lot of effort to seamlessly make you feel engaged in the world,via party banter, the radio, camping, etc.

 

[APZonerunner]

Correct. It's just symbolism.

To a point I see a lot of parallels, though. Like, Regis sees Noctis on those very steps for the last time, knowing that he will die and that Noctis is also fated to die in time, and his last words to him are to 'walk tall'. 10 years later, Noctis stands on the same steps and tells the guys the same thing, I think knowing - like Regis - that he is going to his death and so are they.

It's obviously open for interpretation much like FF7's 'was everybody wiped out' question, but I personally do fall in the 'they're dead' camp; I think the shot of the sun rising over everybody's empty camping gear also nods to that.

 

[Jonnax]

Anyone hazard a guess about what the plot for Luna being beaten by a some suit of armor was about?

I'm guessing it was Luna refusing to give up info about Noctis.

 

[Bladenic]

Anyone hazard a guess about what the plot for Luna being beaten by a some suit of armor was about?

I'm guessing it was Luna refusing to give up info about Noctis.

Probably nothing.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Anyone hazard a guess about what the plot for Luna being beaten by a some suit of armor was about?

I'm guessing it was Luna refusing to give up info about Noctis.

the dawn trailer was when they were kids. generally speaking it means little now as it relates to what is actually in the finished game

 

[Rad Shadow]

Also, why is young Noctis in a wheelchair?

Was it because of that naga fight?

 

[TissueBox]

Also, why is young Noctis in a wheelchair?

Was it because of that naga fight?

Yes, though it's never mentioned in the game. You see how it happens in Brotherhood, though, even if I was still left wanting...more, lol.

Edit: Actually it was a 'Marilith', a Magitek-employed Darmon that injured him.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The hanging corpses is one of the best things in the game's story.

Ardyn is just too awesome.

It's really one of the most memorable scenes in modern FF, IMO. Even the Lucavi in FFT wish they were as evil as this.

 

[Rad Shadow]

Ah. Shame we don't see that monster in the game.