Rogue One is so good it improves the entire trilogy (SPOILERS)
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StrategyFan
Member
the best trilogy would be half of rogue one, ep4, ep5, and half of ep6
UnemployedVillain
Member
That's a terrible explanation, that was only vaguely acceptable, because we had no other valid explanation. The reasoning that RO establishes is much MUCH better
I don't think TFA was a terrible film, or even a bad one, but as a sequel the way they completely reset the universe greatly undermines the achievements of the OT
Vigilant Walrus
Member
To me the ending sequence was amazing.
Why?
Because I never, even when I was younger got all the hype for Darth Vader. Yeah he was strong and all that, but I think his ruthlessness in the end of Rogue One makes him a better character for me.
In Episode 3, the studio didn't have the balls to show the slaughtering of Younglings and it is such a shame, because it's like every bit of the trilogy is about how a hero falls. A tragic greek of a mighty warrior.
In all of the classic greek myths there is a specific event, situation or choice by the character that creates the fall.
In Episode 1, 2 and 3, George tries to show it. But it doesnt come across with cohesion. In Episode 2 he has emotional outbursts and slaughters some sand people. But this is still heavyhanded and rudimentary. We're not convinced that this is the fall from grace from a powerful jedi to becoming a demon.
In Episode 3 the clumsy fall of Mace Windu becomes the catalyst. Anakins pivotal point of no return, but it's a bad spot. It should have been the slaughtering of the younglings.
From the first moment when he ask the younglings to obey him, and they refuse to listen to him, his anger goes from request to threat, and from threat to stabbing one of them. The first kid he kills is the real fall of the character.
In Rogue Ones ending you get to see Darth Vader make work. It's not fast, it's not flashy like anakins fighting in the prequels. He walks towards the rebels without stopping. He doesn't run. He just chops them down like pinatas and doesn't even try to hide from it. This ending makes Darth Vader a lot more terrifying than he ever was in the originals. In the originals the only trick he had was force choking people playing a tough guy bouncer.
So I really really like the well directed ending.
But it also says something that my favorite bit was when all the other characters where did. I didn't care about them. It didn't matter that they died on the planet. I just wondered where all the bothans where? I don't hate the new crew. I disliked the main characters, and I thought some of them where okay. It's the last 4 minutes of the film that makes it for me, and I am glad I saw it.
I wish that Mads Mikkelsen hadn't been fed such sentimental garbage. "stardust.. love of my life". Go fuck yourself. This is twilight levels of yuck. And as for Felicity Jones she had the emotional weight and expression of Steven Segal. She made one or two faces in the entire movie:
This is one of the most bland, most tone deaf and pointless main characters I've seen in a long fucking time. I'm astounded by her lack of screen presence. They should have gotten someone like Emily Blunt who has so much emotion coming out of her eyes even if her character isn't deep. She got so much out of her fairly bland roles in Edge of Tomorrow and Sicario because she is great at acting with her face even if she has no lines.
This one is not Felicity Jones fault at all. It's all on edwards and the casting director. This is the second time Edwards doesn't know how to direct good actors. He didn't know what to do Craston in Godzilla, and in Rogue One, none of the star cast; Mikkelsen or Whitiker gives a good performance. The only one I feel works is Blaze. It really says something about his ability to direct actors when he gets so little out of so many great actors.
Even Lucas got more out of Liam Nesson in episode 1 and Palptine and Obi-Wan in episode 2 and 3. Considering the scripts and dialogue they where given, there was a lot more meat on them and their performances.
I'd say that most of the characters in Rogue One have acting on the level of Anakin in episode 1. It's not their fault. It's off key. Particularly Donnie Yen. I was super disappointed in what a caricature that dude ended up being. Ugh.
Why?
Because I never, even when I was younger got all the hype for Darth Vader. Yeah he was strong and all that, but I think his ruthlessness in the end of Rogue One makes him a better character for me.
In Episode 3, the studio didn't have the balls to show the slaughtering of Younglings and it is such a shame, because it's like every bit of the trilogy is about how a hero falls. A tragic greek of a mighty warrior.
In all of the classic greek myths there is a specific event, situation or choice by the character that creates the fall.
In Episode 1, 2 and 3, George tries to show it. But it doesnt come across with cohesion. In Episode 2 he has emotional outbursts and slaughters some sand people. But this is still heavyhanded and rudimentary. We're not convinced that this is the fall from grace from a powerful jedi to becoming a demon.
In Episode 3 the clumsy fall of Mace Windu becomes the catalyst. Anakins pivotal point of no return, but it's a bad spot. It should have been the slaughtering of the younglings.
From the first moment when he ask the younglings to obey him, and they refuse to listen to him, his anger goes from request to threat, and from threat to stabbing one of them. The first kid he kills is the real fall of the character.
In Rogue Ones ending you get to see Darth Vader make work. It's not fast, it's not flashy like anakins fighting in the prequels. He walks towards the rebels without stopping. He doesn't run. He just chops them down like pinatas and doesn't even try to hide from it. This ending makes Darth Vader a lot more terrifying than he ever was in the originals. In the originals the only trick he had was force choking people playing a tough guy bouncer.
So I really really like the well directed ending.
But it also says something that my favorite bit was when all the other characters where did. I didn't care about them. It didn't matter that they died on the planet. I just wondered where all the bothans where? I don't hate the new crew. I disliked the main characters, and I thought some of them where okay. It's the last 4 minutes of the film that makes it for me, and I am glad I saw it.
I wish that Mads Mikkelsen hadn't been fed such sentimental garbage. "stardust.. love of my life". Go fuck yourself. This is twilight levels of yuck. And as for Felicity Jones she had the emotional weight and expression of Steven Segal. She made one or two faces in the entire movie:
This is one of the most bland, most tone deaf and pointless main characters I've seen in a long fucking time. I'm astounded by her lack of screen presence. They should have gotten someone like Emily Blunt who has so much emotion coming out of her eyes even if her character isn't deep. She got so much out of her fairly bland roles in Edge of Tomorrow and Sicario because she is great at acting with her face even if she has no lines.
This one is not Felicity Jones fault at all. It's all on edwards and the casting director. This is the second time Edwards doesn't know how to direct good actors. He didn't know what to do Craston in Godzilla, and in Rogue One, none of the star cast; Mikkelsen or Whitiker gives a good performance. The only one I feel works is Blaze. It really says something about his ability to direct actors when he gets so little out of so many great actors.
Even Lucas got more out of Liam Nesson in episode 1 and Palptine and Obi-Wan in episode 2 and 3. Considering the scripts and dialogue they where given, there was a lot more meat on them and their performances.
I'd say that most of the characters in Rogue One have acting on the level of Anakin in episode 1. It's not their fault. It's off key. Particularly Donnie Yen. I was super disappointed in what a caricature that dude ended up being. Ugh.
Yeah, that's my opinion. Rogue One is a Star Wars fanboy wet dream, but all of the new characters are boring as sin. Ask people the best part of Rogue One and it will undoubtably be the Vader scene, which doesn't expand the universe at all, whereas in The Force Awakens, it would likely be one of the new character moments, like Finn and Poe escaping in the stolen fighter, or Rey living in the abandoned walker, or Rey flying through the wreckage in the dogfight. It did a better job in my eyes of building new characters based on established iconography, and as the internet won't shut up about, this came at the cost of an unoriginal plot. But the pieces have been set for telling a good story in the future with these excellently built characters.
Rogue One told a story that we already knew, and did it well, but without much bite.
glaringradio
Member
Sorry, Star Wars was in a hole before TFA came along? I was under the impression it was a franchise that generated hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and the new films in the franchise existed to turn those hundreds of millions into billions. Whoops!
EmCeeGramr
Member
"Nobody was asking about how they got the Death Star plans before those corporate Mickey Mouse Disney fucks got their hands on it!"
"Steal the Death Star plans" was such a common trope in Star Wars fiction and games before the Disney deal that they had to create an absurd timeline about how the plans were stolen piecemeal over years because every Rebel squadron and Kyle Katarn motherfucker had had their hands on them at some point.
"Steal the Death Star plans" was such a common trope in Star Wars fiction and games before the Disney deal that they had to create an absurd timeline about how the plans were stolen piecemeal over years because every Rebel squadron and Kyle Katarn motherfucker had had their hands on them at some point.
TheTylerRob
Member
Definitely the most overrated movie in the series. 1 hour of completely boring exposition and bland one dimensional characters and then you get some cool action + lame fan service.
GuitarGuruu
Member
I enjoyed the film but really liked TFA more. To me the "main" villain in Rogue One was very lackluster.
Monocle
Member
This is objectively wrong. I'll just quote myself.
And that's far from an exhaustive list of RO's contributions to ANH.
The Prequels ruined every OT character they touched by giving them awful backstories or making them act like idiots. Obi-Wan is possibly the sole exception. And even he was permanently demeaned by his interaction with Jar-Jar and Grevious, and being made to say truly idiotic lines like "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
It's ridiculous.
Night Angel
Member
Are you me?
It was not a great movie, only a decent one. Hopefully Disney does a better job with the next spin-off.
TFA was a good nostalgic love letter to star wars fans. Certainly no masterpiece but a fun flick overall.
Rogue One on the other hand was certainly not on something like the prequel levels of bad but it was a mediocre movie and one i never intend to watch again. I seriously wonder how the people who like it will look back on it once the honeymoon phase wears off like with every Star Wars movie at this point.
There were plenty of people touting TFA as being one of the greatest movies ever made once it came out. However once the novelty of a new star wars movie wore off people started looking at it with a more critical viewpoint.
Rogue One on the other hand was certainly not on something like the prequel levels of bad but it was a mediocre movie and one i never intend to watch again. I seriously wonder how the people who like it will look back on it once the honeymoon phase wears off like with every Star Wars movie at this point.
There were plenty of people touting TFA as being one of the greatest movies ever made once it came out. However once the novelty of a new star wars movie wore off people started looking at it with a more critical viewpoint.
This is NeoGAF. The video game forum is far worse when it comes to this. I can't count how many times I read how Uncharted 4 was actually a terrible TPS from small, but loud minority of people here. This game and Overwatch are grabbing the majority of game of the year awards.
To me, that made this film all the more enjoyable.
It was a story that has a huge impact on the OT, and one that we knew would end up tragically. It wasn't the start of a new timeline or story thread, and brought us back to a familiar time. I loved seeing the x wing pilots again, particularly.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah Star Wars is a thing that's going to sell no matter what (unless Disney manages to run it into the ground with overuse, which seems like a possibility). After two shitty movies, Episode 3 was still raking in the cash.
I'm actually happy that it seems to be getting a love it or hate it, divisive reaction.
Shows that they really did make a different sort of Star Wars, which is exactly what this franchise needs if they want to continue with annual releases.
I love the movie btw and happy to see more from this new era of Star Wars.
For real.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
In my two fav Star Wars films immediately. Instant classic
Monocle
Member
Congrats on your ability to be entertained by revenue that isn't yours? I'm talking about the state of the movies from a fan's perspective. Obviously.
Liamario
Banned
Nope. Explained things I didn't want/need explained. It's a good movie, nothing more.
My interest in Star Wars doesn't go beyond the personal stories of the characters, so when some tries to give more exposition of the universe I'm very indifferent. I like the universe, but only insofar as the characters interactions within it.
My interest in Star Wars doesn't go beyond the personal stories of the characters, so when some tries to give more exposition of the universe I'm very indifferent. I like the universe, but only insofar as the characters interactions within it.
Not everything in film needs an in-universe explanation or rationalization. It can be easily inferred by the audience based on the depiction of the empire in the movie.
I thought the ending was really forced. Like why was Leia in the middle of a huge battle. Did they really need to show her physically getting a disk? Figured it was always a transmission they received.
Also, the Vader part at the end was cool but totally felt like fan service. Also weird to see him being so badass but then in the beginning of ANH, he doesn't do much. Did he get tired or something?
Also, the Vader part at the end was cool but totally felt like fan service. Also weird to see him being so badass but then in the beginning of ANH, he doesn't do much. Did he get tired or something?
I dunno man, the scene of Jyn and Cassian hugging each other on the beach while the Death Star beam explosion slowly swallowed them up was pretty fucking awesome. They died not knowing if all their efforts really made a difference but the audience knows they totally did in ANH. It really hit me.
Sanjaaaaaaaay
Member
Weird cause I thought it made the rebellions motivation a lot more desperate.
The Force Awakens is still in my top 10.
But yeah, you're right -- a lot of people backed off from that degree of adoration. I'm just not one of 'em, haha.ArgyleReptile
Banned
As of right now, I enjoyed this flick more than TFA. Mostly because I felt it did a lot of things different, which was a nice change of pace. However, the protagonists in this film are much weaker than TFA protagonists. I only really cared about Donnie Yen and his Bro.
Pretty much agree with this.
Now I did like the action, but even parts of this were boring and "been there, done that". How many scenes did they have with characters running from point a to b? Some of these sequences were so dry and I'm not sure what people were finding interesting here because it didn't add anything.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I always though it was weird in the OT how they had to physically hide and transport the plans in R2D2. Clearly the idea of transmitting these things wirelessly wasn't thought of (or maybe you can only do so with ships in the vicinity in the SW universe?), so you can't really fault RO for it when ANH had the same issue
Glass Rebel
Member
I don't think it "improves the trilogy" as much as it shows the Star Wars universe from a completely new side. People were complaining that TFA "shrank" the universe and the prequels did it in such a hamfisted way that they robbed it of many of its intriguing mysteries. Rogue One, on the other hand, is the first time since the OT where I felt some excitement about the SW universe on film.
While I agree with that sentiment in a general sense, I disagree that the revelation that the lead designer of the installation inlaid a weakness is something that is better off unexplored.
It makes more sense as to how the rebels knew about that weakness as well.
Regardless, it is now canon and I think for the better. I quite enjoyed it.
Liamario
Banned
But the original movies were never about shades of grey. It was a simple tale of good v evil. There's an innocence to the original films and that's part of the appeal. The Jason Bourne angle isn't needed and isn't Star Wars (for me)
pretty much, yeah
UnemployedVillain
Member
Are you completely ignoring Vader and his entire arc?
matrix-cat
Member
I thought it was a perfectly fine movie, bit boring but a great final act. Didn't care one whit about any of the characters, but, y'know, totally watchable.
When I rewatch ANH, though, I'm not going to be thinking, "Thank God for whatsherface's heroic sacrifice, and Mads Mikkelson's clever plan to build a thingamejig into the Death Star". The Death Star having a weakpoint was never anything that required explanation for ANH to work as a movie. The threat needed to go boom, so the handsome main character summoned his courage and used the lessons his mentor taught him to make a one-in-a-million shot, the end.
When I rewatch ANH, though, I'm not going to be thinking, "Thank God for whatsherface's heroic sacrifice, and Mads Mikkelson's clever plan to build a thingamejig into the Death Star". The Death Star having a weakpoint was never anything that required explanation for ANH to work as a movie. The threat needed to go boom, so the handsome main character summoned his courage and used the lessons his mentor taught him to make a one-in-a-million shot, the end.
The point of the standalone films is to be able to do things outside of the story and/or tone of the saga films. This is one of its benefits.
It's just like how the books explore other aspects and perspectives, but now in the form of a movie.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I agree completely, and seeing that the only films with a grasp on the cool parts of the SW universe are in the Empire vs Rebels era, I'm a bit concerned about the ST in that regard. If VIII is like VII in that there's no cool new world building and then the Han Solo movie is cool in the same way Rogue One is, red flags. But I'm optimistic.
Dwight Schrute
Member
Besides two brief scenes I thought it alternated from bland to bad.
I mean, not that I think the prequels are better than TFA, but I agree with the sentiment. TFA biggest weakness and the reason I'm not a big fan is the lack of originality and ridiculous reliance on repeating ANH plot points (and I still can't get over how much I hate Starkiller base). And as the other poster said, the whole reasoning for why there still need to be rebels fighting what is essentially still the empire 30 years later is handled so poorly it's ridiculous. The movie just feels like it's missing too much context, and the plot feels like an afterthought to the decent characterization and mimicking story beats from ANH.
It does literally everything else better than the prequels, but I'll always appreciate the unique tone, the world-building, and the big ideas of the prequel trilogy, even if the execution was extremely flawed. It at least added a lot of rich depth to the universe.
It's the reason I really like Rogue One. You can say the characters needed to be more fleshed out, but at least it presented an original perspective that we hadn't really seen in Star Wars before, with a solid plot that makes a lot of sense and enhanced the trilogy in many ways.
I mean, I don't think Rogue One is on the OT's level, but I wouldn't disagree that it enhances the setting.
I thought that was a great scene visually, too. But I don't think it felt earned with what the two of them had with each other character-wise beforehand. Plus, the deaths of the entire Rogue One team are undercut 30 seconds later with the audience creaming themselves over the Vader slaughter scene.
And Luke, and Han, and basically all of Empire and ROTJ.
HiredN00bs
Banned
To claim that this movie was good is not an affront to film so much as it is as affront to storytelling.
It's mostly reactionary. People say things like it was the best film ever made and statements like that irk people who think critically about them. The production of this movie was outstanding and it had moments of action that were outstanding, but it never earned emotional connection to its characters, which is gravely disappointing for people who wanted it be an awesome movie. I feel like people who felt sad when characters in this movie die also felt sad when Wolverine's girlfriend dies in Origins. I simply don't understand why.
That's what the main numbered episodes are for and you're getting more of those. The standalones should absolutely be doing something different.
Liamario
Banned
I appreciate that, the movie was good. It's a movie set in the Star Wars universe more than a Star Wars movie.
Not disagreeing with you. I'm just not interested in that aspect and I don't feel that that approach reflects my interest in Star Wars.
It can add to one's appreciation of it but it certainly doesn't make those movies better.
Hate to agree here. The prequel trilogy is terrible but revels in its absurdity, it's the trash fire you can't stop staring at. R1 is just wooden and dull the entire film. Once was more than enough for me to ever sit through. Really shocked that so many have fallen in love with it actually.
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