Rogue One is so good it improves the entire trilogy (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter cereal_killerxx
- Start date
- Status
Monocle
Member
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
But really, it's perfectly valid to advance their stories by showing that their lives progress in cycles. It's not unlike real life. And besides, it's dramatically satisfying because it shows that those characters returned to what they were good at when things fell apart. It confirms their defining qualities.
As for Luke being insecure, I don't see this as a diminishing thing. Even masters doubt themselves, and Luke has precisely the kind of past and family history that would make Ben's fall devastating. It's not like he just ran away like a coward either. He went to seek knowledge or solace or whatever at an ancient Jedi temple. That's a pretty valid destination after deeply traumatic, confidence-shaking crisis IMO.
Luke is still awesome, but he's also one guy, trying to forge a new way forward for his all but dead order. His return in Ep. 8 will be all the more interesting for this.
Then you've got The Last Airbender which is the nexus where only the worst of the worst can pass.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Not terrible opinions tbh.
Monocle
Member
Nobody really claims that do they? There are great reasons why Fury Road is a brilliant movie, and many compelling reasons why Suicide Squad is a mess of one. There's not some bizarre bias at play here. It's justified reactions amplified with the hyperbolic language of enthusiast culture.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
No it doesn't. If anything Rogue One is a pointless waste of time.
Monocle
Member
Much like this kind of post, which is nothing but a vapid whine about a creative work that a lot of people find merit in. For reasons they have supplied.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
More savage than Vader.
Man, the cynicism is strong in this thread. I see the point the article is making and I agree. After seeing RO, I watched ANH and it definitely did make the situation feel more grave. I loved
Everyone's got their own opinion, I suppose.
the darker ending with everyone dying, the rebellion group having different factions with some being considered 'radical' (I find it interesting that they're based in Jedha, which is clearly inspired by middle eastern culture), and how it was a bit more action packed than some of the previous movies.
With that said, I could have done without that CGI in the end; I'd have prefered them saying something like 'get this to Princess Leia immediately and protect it with your life' or something instead.
I wouldn't have minded in regards to that last scene
if we just didn't see Leia's face -- maybe she holds the stolen plans against her chest, we see that, and we hear her say hope then.
capitalCORN
Member
I swear to God I didn't realize that was CG, I thought it was a look-a-like. Was it that bad?
It kinda freaked me out. It was so close to being completely great CG that the tiniest imperfections basically blew the effect. Textbook uncanny.
Tarkin had a bit of this too, but I think Tarkin actually worked quite a lot better than Leia did.
I hated Leia's face. Why give her this expression? Her friends just got gruesomely murdered or crushed to death in their ships and she smiles? I know hope can do wonders but she looks like she saw that dinner's ready. It also doesn't fit with her being angry and talking back to Vader. The cgi faces are not quite there yet.
Elwood Blues
Member
Citizen Kane can eat its heart out.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i watched Rogue One and i call B.S.
there's no freakin Alien that can speak a lick of english until Return of the Jedi.
everyone should be ESL level and some minor role like washing dishes, side kick or slave.
There is no alien admiral rank for the rebel fleet at that time. progress doesn't happen till after Empire strikes back. this is so fake. first aliens need to assimilate into the rebel fleet. learn the language and then work the way up ranks.
plus that seafood needs some lotion. ashy as hell.
there's no freakin Alien that can speak a lick of english until Return of the Jedi.
everyone should be ESL level and some minor role like washing dishes, side kick or slave.
There is no alien admiral rank for the rebel fleet at that time. progress doesn't happen till after Empire strikes back. this is so fake. first aliens need to assimilate into the rebel fleet. learn the language and then work the way up ranks.
plus that seafood needs some lotion. ashy as hell.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
What's worse, somebody thought it was a good idea to spend millions on a pointless movie or the defense mechanisms that are raised by fans when it gets pointed out.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Couldn't have been a better first post.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Wat?
How can you compare a super lame Xwings vs Death planet battle with what we got in RO???
What are you even talking about?
You're entitled to your opinion, but clearly folks aren't agreeing with you. Besides, the film was anything but pointless so there's really no argument to be made there.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
What exactly did Rogue One add to Star Wars?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
MoviePilot is a fucking awful outlet and you should probably stop putting it in your eyeballs.
I agree with this entirely, it was a pretty bland movie with a few awesome scenes/set pieces.
It was so nice of Disney to address the lack of people from the Subcontinent in the Star Wars universe by giving us a taxi driver who abandons his original post. Gee, thanks. Great addition there...
AlexFlame116
Member
"Hope"
BlastProcessing
Member
As far as crowdsourced wisdom goes, that's not bad.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
I like it cause it made Donnie Yen into a star war
It explained how the Rebels came into possession of the Death Star plans, and explained how and why the Death Star has such a glaring weakness.
It also served to expand the universe even more, by introducing new characters and locations we haven't seen before. It gave us more of a look at the rebel forces which is always welcome (Star Wars is at its absolute best when its Rebels vs the Empire, in my opinion). Etc.
What exactly makes it pointless? Is it a pointless movie because it is a prequel, and leads to a conclusion we already knew?
Oh, also it was fun.
Edit: also it's a side story. It was never going to have the widespread universal impact of a numbered sequel.
The One and Done
Member
Agree with OP. It truly expanded on the mythos of Star Wars.
It fulfilled the Legend of Darth Vader in an epic way.
It gave so much more weight to the already high stakes of ANH.
It added another dimension to the rebels and showed through dark side of the Rebellion.
It gave a real reason why the Rebels were so rah rah in ANH after seeing their first real victory vs. The Empire
It really demonstrated the oppression of the Empire in a real way.
It's probably the best depiction of War in a Star Wars film.
It added interesting characters who you'd love to learn more about.
It covered a major flaw in the original trilogy brilliantly.
And so much more. Fucking loved that movie.
It fulfilled the Legend of Darth Vader in an epic way.
It gave so much more weight to the already high stakes of ANH.
It added another dimension to the rebels and showed through dark side of the Rebellion.
It gave a real reason why the Rebels were so rah rah in ANH after seeing their first real victory vs. The Empire
It really demonstrated the oppression of the Empire in a real way.
It's probably the best depiction of War in a Star Wars film.
It added interesting characters who you'd love to learn more about.
It covered a major flaw in the original trilogy brilliantly.
And so much more. Fucking loved that movie.
Vicetrailia
Banned
I think it was solid, but nothing amazing. It's informative, but the purpose is modest.
The Scollard
Member
Except we didn't need the explanation for the Death Star's weakness. The movie's lame excuse makes ANH worse in my opinion. Just have it be the Imperial's hubris that caused that flaw. It's not like its unrealistic. The Bismarck, a WW2 German Battleship, had design flaws which led to its sinking after those flaws were exploited by small airplanes carrying torpedoes. Considering the similarities between SW and WW2, and the Empire and the Nazis, I think the Bismarck is probably the real world counterpart to the Death Star, or it and other Nazi superweapons inspired the battle station.
UnemployedVillain
Member
But that's an awful reason and one example in history doesn't make it justifable
capitalCORN
Member
Well, I'm sorry if tying emotional gravitas to a plot device is so offensive to you.
It's not as if RO retconned the reason being the Empire's hubris. It was never a case of the Empire's hubris.
The explanation makes perfect sense, and is perfectly in line with and agreeable to ANH. In fact it adds greater weight to the rebellion knowing that the designer of the Death Star was forced into it, and planted the trap there to be exploited.
Rumblebones
Banned
Who actually gives a shit about any of the characters in Rogue One? They're completely forgettable, and the film outright wastes the stacked talent it was given.
theCalamity
Member
There wasn't a pressing need to explain why that flaw existed in the Death Star, but I appreciate the explanation.
rant time. I disliked this movie, but what I really dislike is the fans embracing this movie, and what it implies about adult geek fandom's relationship to what they loved as kids. To me Star Wars trilogy were great movies first and foremost, not springboards for an endless universe. I've loved them as I would love any other good movie. But I guess you can't be a lifelong fanatic for something that is finite in scope, not to mention childlike in essence. You can be a fan of a family film series, but not a fanatic. There just isn't enough substance to chew on for years on end. So naturally there has always been a desire among the diehards for more serious Star Wars stories that extend the universe.
TFA failed on both measures. It didn't matter that it was fun, or that it had a great cast, or any of the other things you would conventionally consider important to the enjoyment of a movie. It didn't extend the universe, and it wasn't serious, ergo it failed the geekdom.
Rogue One only works as a tie-in to ANH, whereas you could go into TFA blind and still enjoy it. No question in my mind which is the better film. But again, TFA is rarely hated as a film. It's hated as Star Wars lore.
I guess the people who have a hard-on for lore and a bizarre desire to see less fun (more adult?) versions of the kids' movies they grew up with now have their movie, but I've never been much of a lore guy, especially for a universe as inherently silly as Star Wars. This joyless film adds nothing of value to the original trilogy, which were so unabashedly filled with childlike wonder and excitement. In fact that was arguably the whole point of Star Wars in the first place : bringing back a sense of lightness and fun to the cinema after the serious and gritty dramas of the 70s had dominated the landscape for many years. But it seems that many of the kids who grew up with Star Wars missed that context completely, and mistook Star Wars as a work of seriousness. Understandable, but you'd think they'd grow out of it at some point and embrace the films for what they really are.
It always tickles me that diehards consider Empire to be dark. I get that it seemed dark when you were a kid, but it's really a light and silly movie, complete with mystical green space guru and ridiculous soap opera familial plot twist, which are good, because that's what the Star Wars universe is good for. Try to make an actual dark SW, and what you get is Rogue One: too light to be an emotionally compelling war movie, and too dour to be an imaginative space fantasy movie.
I am really glad that the mainline episodes aren't attempting this pseudo-gritty (I mean, if you're going to go the gritty route, you have to go the whole way, or you get the bland non-characters and uninvolving sanitized drama of Rogue One. Oh no, these protagonists with no personality all died in the most unbrutal, bloodless ways! Truly I am sad.) nonsense. Keep Star Wars fun; that's why people loved it in the first place, and that's what it does best.
TFA failed on both measures. It didn't matter that it was fun, or that it had a great cast, or any of the other things you would conventionally consider important to the enjoyment of a movie. It didn't extend the universe, and it wasn't serious, ergo it failed the geekdom.
Rogue One only works as a tie-in to ANH, whereas you could go into TFA blind and still enjoy it. No question in my mind which is the better film. But again, TFA is rarely hated as a film. It's hated as Star Wars lore.
I guess the people who have a hard-on for lore and a bizarre desire to see less fun (more adult?) versions of the kids' movies they grew up with now have their movie, but I've never been much of a lore guy, especially for a universe as inherently silly as Star Wars. This joyless film adds nothing of value to the original trilogy, which were so unabashedly filled with childlike wonder and excitement. In fact that was arguably the whole point of Star Wars in the first place : bringing back a sense of lightness and fun to the cinema after the serious and gritty dramas of the 70s had dominated the landscape for many years. But it seems that many of the kids who grew up with Star Wars missed that context completely, and mistook Star Wars as a work of seriousness. Understandable, but you'd think they'd grow out of it at some point and embrace the films for what they really are.
It always tickles me that diehards consider Empire to be dark. I get that it seemed dark when you were a kid, but it's really a light and silly movie, complete with mystical green space guru and ridiculous soap opera familial plot twist, which are good, because that's what the Star Wars universe is good for. Try to make an actual dark SW, and what you get is Rogue One: too light to be an emotionally compelling war movie, and too dour to be an imaginative space fantasy movie.
I am really glad that the mainline episodes aren't attempting this pseudo-gritty (I mean, if you're going to go the gritty route, you have to go the whole way, or you get the bland non-characters and uninvolving sanitized drama of Rogue One. Oh no, these protagonists with no personality all died in the most unbrutal, bloodless ways! Truly I am sad.) nonsense. Keep Star Wars fun; that's why people loved it in the first place, and that's what it does best.
The Scollard
Member
How is it? The Imperials notice a design flaw in their superweapon, and decide to do nothing about about it because its such a tiny flaw that they don't think anyone would ever be able to take advantage of it. It ties into the whole idea of the series that the Sith lose because of their overconfidence, just like how The Emperor underestimated Vader's love for his son, and paid the price because of it.
Also, it's not the only example; I just mentioned the Bismarck because it was probably the most analogous to the Death Star. The Japanese Battleship Yamato was another super powerful weapon that was destroyed due to the power of aircraft, and there were many decisions the Nazi made due to overconfidence that cost them the war.
I probably would have had less of a problem with it if there actually was any emotional gravitas. But there wasn't. I cared for none of the characters in Rogue One. Not Jin, not Calrissian, not Forest Whitaker, and not Hannibal Lecter. So maybe the film should have tried to actually make good characters who I wanted to see succeed before they tried tying them to that plot point, because I don't care Galen.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
None of that really matters though. The stealing of the death star plans was just a reason for the empire to go after the droids and Luke. No one questioned it, no one cared. And the Death Star's weakness could be handwaved as the death star being a space station the size of the moon and the hole being 2 meters wide that you have to carefully shoot after going through a trench run. Hell the rebels almost fail at that remember?
Some weakness Galen Erso put in.
I walked out of the theater during it. Just as
blew up. I wanted to leave sometime before
.
It was really boring and only three characters had any charisma. And out of the three, the robot was annoying and a distant third place.
It wasn't as bad as Suicide Squad or BvS, but it was certainly less funny than BvS.
Porkins
Vader made that painful quip in his evil volcano lair
It was really boring and only three characters had any charisma. And out of the three, the robot was annoying and a distant third place.
It wasn't as bad as Suicide Squad or BvS, but it was certainly less funny than BvS.
Again you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't agree that none of it matters, though.
The Scollard
Member
How was it never a case of the Empire's hubris? Grand Moff Tarkin stays on the Death Star when the rebels attack because he believes there's no way the rebels could destroy it. When Vader suggests he leave, he asks something like why should they run when their hour of victory is upon them. If that isn't overconfidence and hubris, I don't know what is.
The entire OT is basically the Empire's hubris. From the Emperor thinking he could turn Luke, or kill him in front of his father. It's Vader being confident Lando would be so afraid of the Imperials that he wouldn't betray them and end up helping Han on Bespin. It's them thinking the shield generator on Endor was enough to protect the second Death Star.
brianjones
Member
worst movie I've seen all year
ill even take batman vs. superman over it
ill even take batman vs. superman over it
theCalamity
Member
K2SO thinks there is a 85% chance that you suck.
Sorry, you don't suck. I hated K2SO's percentage jokes.
capitalCORN
Member
That's the thing about Rogue One, the mission will succeed. But where to take the story is where the freedom lies. There are no jedi, no Jesus figures, the force is all but absent, The
stardust
Jedah
But that's HK47's shtick! Surely you enjoyed HK47?!
Number two is. If you seriously think SS is the worst film ever made, you have a pathetically small and narrow view of how bad cinema can get.
you don't even believe this
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked