I always saw it as Vader fucking with the old man who couldn't swing a laser sword around anymore
Rogue One is so good it improves the entire trilogy (SPOILERS)
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I always saw it as Vader fucking with the old man who couldn't swing a laser sword around anymore
Psychoward
Banned
I'm about to go to sleep but the reason for still stealing the plans after the rebels know the weakness of the death star is because much like Tarkin and co. they don't know where the weak spot actually is.
Plus inside layout would be good for infiltration teams (like Luke and co. Did accidentally to disable the tractor beam)
Psychoward
Banned
I actually disagree even though I much prefer TO to TFA, I mean maybe out of context sure everything from landing to Scarif onwards was amazing and better than TFA.
But in the context of not having a good star wars movie in decades the part in TFA where the X-Wings come in as backup over the water was not only beautifully shot but was the moment it hit me I was finally watching a good star wars movie in theaters.
Huh, you just reminded me of one thing Rogue One does improve about A New Hope: It makes Tarkin look like less of an idiot because he didn't actually know about the exhaust port being a weak point like that.
I thought that scene was ok until they ruined with with Poe going into godmode and killing 10 tie fighters in 10 seconds.
The beginning was a bit weak but the only part of the movie I disliked was the ending with too much laserbeams and explosions and too little awesome heist fun.
I was also sad to see Leia being present for the battle since I always liked to imagine that she was on an actual diplomatic mission that she choose to abort once they received a rebel transmission (with her of course being a rebel allay all along) and it stung a little extra since I just heard about Carrie passing away.
I don't know if I think it improves ANH but it definitely was a story (mostly) well told and deserving to be a part of the Star Wars cannon.
I was also sad to see Leia being present for the battle since I always liked to imagine that she was on an actual diplomatic mission that she choose to abort once they received a rebel transmission (with her of course being a rebel allay all along) and it stung a little extra since I just heard about Carrie passing away.
I don't know if I think it improves ANH but it definitely was a story (mostly) well told and deserving to be a part of the Star Wars cannon.
That and the flips of ROTS are stunning choreography but awful in terms of investing the audience. There's no tension or emotional stakes.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Poe was billed as the best pilot in the Resistance, it would have sucked if he killed like one and then wandered off to find the nearest bathroom.
If you think about it, ROTS dramatically messes up the feeling of that scene.
The last time Vader saw Obi-wan, he had just gotten multiple limbs cut off and was left there to literally burn to death in hot magma. I mean, you would think Vader would be PISSED the next time he saw Obi-wan, even though it was decades later. If I was Vader, when I saw that old son of a bitch again I would have cut his limbs off one by one and then impaled him with my lightsaber and beheaded him on the spot. I mean this is the fucker who was responsible for him having to wear that stupid suit and breathe like WHOOO-HAAAA for the rest of his agonizingly mutilated life! How the fuck do you even SLEEP when all you hear is WHOOO-HAAAA every time you take a breath?
Unknown Soldier
Member
edit: dp
The Silver
Member
nah, Vader had learned to kill his emotions(at the least not outwardly show them), he realized how much they fucked him over "as Anakin". It's similar to when he meets Ahsoka again and tries to act as stoic and indifferent as possible, dude really wants to convince himself he's a completely different person from Anakin.
Tevious
Member
I just got back from seeing Rogue One and I completely disagree. It was not a bad film, but it was a stupid film with some redeeming moments. That whole ending sequence with the DS plans was a mess that kind of soured the rest of the movie for me. Vader is a ridiculous cartoon villain in this movie. And Toon Tarkin brought me out of the movie in every scene he was in. I felt like I was watching a live action cartoon. If anything, it cheapened the OT for me. I probably wasn't going to anyway, but I doubt I will ever give the Han Solo film a chance now, nor any of the "A Star Wars Story" films in the future if they're all going to be dumb fan service films. Looking forward to Episode VIII, however.
I thought it was okay. It starts picking up after the first 30-40 minutes, but most of the movie until the destruction of the temple city is thoroughly underwhelming. After that, it gets considerably better, and culminates with the final infiltration. It has some genuinely strong scenes, and seeing Vader beasting in the end was probably worth paying for the ticket.
Still, I feel that the movie is missing a lot of the charm and emotional impact that the other movies have. The action scenes are solid, but whenever the movie slows down a bit, character interactions and dialogue almost feel forced. I didn't particularly like the soundtrack, either, and in some places, odd tonal choices took me right out of the experience. Going in, you know that the team is going to die, but I really wish you'd be given more of a chance to connect with these characters (it might have been a good idea to cut 2-3 people, because some of them felt at least a bit redundant). This is especially true for Forest Whitaker's character, who had close to no reason for being in the movie.
Ultimately, what you have here is a competent sci-fi action movie with a darker ending, but after watching it. It's not a bad movie, and I appreciate the things it does to expand the lore, but it also doesn't add enough to stand on its own. These spin-off movies are supposed to be more standalone stories within the Star Wars universe, and on that basis, RO fails. Its strong connection to ANH more or less keeps it floating, but without that, I feel it would be rather forgettable.
Still, I feel that the movie is missing a lot of the charm and emotional impact that the other movies have. The action scenes are solid, but whenever the movie slows down a bit, character interactions and dialogue almost feel forced. I didn't particularly like the soundtrack, either, and in some places, odd tonal choices took me right out of the experience. Going in, you know that the team is going to die, but I really wish you'd be given more of a chance to connect with these characters (it might have been a good idea to cut 2-3 people, because some of them felt at least a bit redundant). This is especially true for Forest Whitaker's character, who had close to no reason for being in the movie.
Ultimately, what you have here is a competent sci-fi action movie with a darker ending, but after watching it. It's not a bad movie, and I appreciate the things it does to expand the lore, but it also doesn't add enough to stand on its own. These spin-off movies are supposed to be more standalone stories within the Star Wars universe, and on that basis, RO fails. Its strong connection to ANH more or less keeps it floating, but without that, I feel it would be rather forgettable.
The Shadow
Member
That's my assessment as well. I really liked TFA, but Rogue One breathed new life into the series. It showed a tonal direction that didn't seem possible before, and I loved it because of that.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I don't know if I'd go that far but it's nice that it explains why there's such a fatal flaw. Nice retcon over an old plot hole. 
Also the robot is the best.
Overall Rogue One was so, so much better than TFA it's not even funny. Darkest Star Wars movie too, but I like it.
Vader was.... being Vader. He was 100% faithful, and as cool and badass as he ever was. Star Wars was always pretty "cartoony" so this is such a profoundly bizarre criticism... you might as well complain "this movie was too much of a space opera!" or "there are too many spaceships".
Also the robot is the best.Overall Rogue One was so, so much better than TFA it's not even funny. Darkest Star Wars movie too, but I like it.
Good post, and yes I agree.
This entire post baffles me, but this line in bold baffles me most of all. Like, uh, what
Vader was.... being Vader. He was 100% faithful, and as cool and badass as he ever was. Star Wars was always pretty "cartoony" so this is such a profoundly bizarre criticism... you might as well complain "this movie was too much of a space opera!" or "there are too many spaceships".
Tevious
Member
Star Wars wasn't cartoony until shitty CGI characters started showing up since the Special Editions. Vader's "badass"-ery was over top, not so much by his actions alone, but the way his scenes were shot, framed, and lighted. The direction was completely inconsistent with the OT. For example, we had one scene at the end where the room is completely dark, room is silent, then we hear *beathing sounds*, his lightsaber ignites and the room turns red, then que the badass music as Vader tears rebels to shreds. It was absurd. Another scene, Vader has his back turned to Krenic while he force chokes him. I can't quite put my finger on why this didn't work for me, but it was unnatural. Vader always faced his foes directly. Every scene with Vader just felt like he was being placed on a pedestal to make him look as badass as possible. Hence, the cartoon villain vibe.
I am absolutely baffled as to how much praise this film has got.
There is literally 0 character development for 95% of the cast that appears in this movie, yet everyone acts as if this is among the best star wars films...
The only thing good from that movie was the space battle at the end. Which was spectacular looking on one hand but on the other hand the non existent character development made me not care one bit about any of the characters dying...
This is a mediocre at best film, and it shows that it faced rewrites and reshoots.
There is literally 0 character development for 95% of the cast that appears in this movie, yet everyone acts as if this is among the best star wars films...
The only thing good from that movie was the space battle at the end. Which was spectacular looking on one hand but on the other hand the non existent character development made me not care one bit about any of the characters dying...
This is a mediocre at best film, and it shows that it faced rewrites and reshoots.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Sucks to be you that you didn't enjoy it. I thought it was the best Star Wars since the original three.
Yeah I know it sucks. But for the sake of argument, can you comment regarding the cast of this movie? Where you satisfied with how they were presented, or explored as characters?
It was good. Not better than The Force Awakens but it was what I expected it to be.
As others have said, it made want to watch A New Hope too.
It does feel like one of the expanded universe novels or something like that.
The only thing in this movie that made ANH better was the fact that Galen Erso put the weakness on the Death Star on purpose. I really liked that.
As others have said, it made want to watch A New Hope too.
It does feel like one of the expanded universe novels or something like that.
The only thing in this movie that made ANH better was the fact that Galen Erso put the weakness on the Death Star on purpose. I really liked that.
cyberheater
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Will respond later. I'm at work right now.
demosthenes
Member
Just saw it again for the 2nd time.
Jyn - Goes from just living and hoping from bad situation to bad situation and not caring about anything and assuming her father fked over her mother and went back to the empire to see that he sacrificed his last 15 years in part not just to protect her but the entire galaxy. Didn't want to waste his sacrifice / saw what the empire was capable of which lit a fire in her. Accepted to do anything possible to stop them.
Cassian - Family most likely murdered when he was 6, fighting for the rebellion since. Has done horrible things and was just someone that took orders without question. Realized that the weapon was complete that Galen was a waste to kill, so he didn't follow through with his presumably first order. Decided to disobey further orders and fight for what he believed in at the end which was Jyn.
Bodi - Empire pilot that didn't like what he was doing/didn't support the empire and needed a push to be good. Galen was that push. Presented as a scared guy that wanted to stop the empire. Over came his fears in his last scene.
Chirrit/Baze - Protectors of the temple of whills now out of jobs and pretty bummed. Chirrit makes the comment that Baze was the most faithful before, so he seems to have taken the lost of the temple much harsher than Chirrit. I assume that the protectors of the temple weren't force sensitive but were more like members of a religion, or like monks. They couldn't control the force but could let the force act through them. Chirrit didn't really have much other than what I presume is allowing the force to push him to Jyn. Baze wants to get back at the empire, he also wants to protect his blind best friend if it kills him. Baze accepts the force again in his last minute killing as many storm troopers as he can.
Saw - Would like to see what he had before rewrites but I'm pretty sure he was part of it.
It's not amazing but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as people are making it out. I would have liked just a little more dialogue between them. On 2nd viewing I did catch some snippets that I missed the first time too.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
It really doesn't make me want to watch Last Hope at all. Last 1/3rd was great but the first 2/3rds was generic action movie in SW universe. Had a damn good time regardless. Biggest issues to me was acting. Leading girl/guy were solid but not great, the black guy just seemed like he was over acting. IP man actor was lit, the robot had more charima than the leads. The guy from the Night Of/Nightcrawler is a great actor though, he didn't have a massive role and still clearly outshined the leads every time he was on screen. Big issue is lack of great performances IMO, they could have carried the slower parts better.
Dug the hell out of the ending though.
Dug the hell out of the ending though.
family_guy
Member
I didn't for the reason that he could have put in some type of self destruct device in the Death Star and blown it anytime that he wanted. Then there's the fact that they had the schematics so it's not like they couldn't just build another one even if it took years to do so. In fact they pretty much did in The Force Awakens. I liked it better when it was an unintentional design flaw.
Does that really qualify to you as "character development" for a film, whose base premise is the sacrifice of its cast for the greater good? Its a suicide mission movie. The characters should drive the film. This is barebones to say the least. Its not even remotely close to what character development should be.
Force Awakens has proper character development.
By the end of Rogue one the cast was dying and I felt nothing. It also felt weird in a bad way because the director made it look like something grave was happening with his characters dying but he forgot to say anything about them to make me emotionally engaged, so I was puzzled as to the gravity with which he directed these scenes.
The only character who gets some background is the lead. The rest of them are simply there to fill the screen/plot/set pieces.
I feel like you could use episode 3 to add context to that and Vader was being cautious. Last time he was arrogant around his master limbs were left on a lava planet.
I haven't seen Rogue One, but the trailer kind of put me off, which leads me to my question:
Is anyone fed up with the formula of Star Wars movies? I mean, it was already pretty noticeable with the original trilogy: bad guys have a huge ball that floats in space, we need to find its weak point (by examining blueprints) and attack it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. This is exactly what happens in both in IV and VI. But OK, the Deathstar is pretty central to the plot so I guess it's cool.
Then comes along Phantom Menace - exactly the same thing. Lol. OK, but these films were bad anyway, what have you got for us J.J. Abrams? "Well, you know, we're looking to start a new trilogy and a new beginning here, so here's this giant ball that floats in space, right? The thing is, it has a weak point, and the key for destroying the ball is finding the blueprints that reveal the weak point and then attacking it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. Pretty fucking cool or what?"
OK, that wasn't cool I guess, but I get it. This was supposed to resemble the old movies so that we'd get all Star Wars fans introduced to the franchise, old and new alike. Now that we have this as a solid basis we can enjoy other takes of the universe - can't wait!
Nice, Rogue One trailer. Oh it's the chick from Theory of Everything, okay she's hot. And Mads Mikkelsen as well, oh yeah son he's the man. A lot of rebel fighters flying around it looks like. Okay so it seems like they need blueprints for something... oh they need blueprints for the giant ball in space so that they can attack it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. FUCK.
I know that Rogue One is a direct prequel to IV hence the plot, but jesus christ. Why am I supposed to go see this? It's like Nietzsche's eternal recurrence with Star Wars.
Is anyone fed up with the formula of Star Wars movies? I mean, it was already pretty noticeable with the original trilogy: bad guys have a huge ball that floats in space, we need to find its weak point (by examining blueprints) and attack it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. This is exactly what happens in both in IV and VI. But OK, the Deathstar is pretty central to the plot so I guess it's cool.
Then comes along Phantom Menace - exactly the same thing. Lol. OK, but these films were bad anyway, what have you got for us J.J. Abrams? "Well, you know, we're looking to start a new trilogy and a new beginning here, so here's this giant ball that floats in space, right? The thing is, it has a weak point, and the key for destroying the ball is finding the blueprints that reveal the weak point and then attacking it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. Pretty fucking cool or what?"
OK, that wasn't cool I guess, but I get it. This was supposed to resemble the old movies so that we'd get all Star Wars fans introduced to the franchise, old and new alike. Now that we have this as a solid basis we can enjoy other takes of the universe - can't wait!
Nice, Rogue One trailer. Oh it's the chick from Theory of Everything, okay she's hot. And Mads Mikkelsen as well, oh yeah son he's the man. A lot of rebel fighters flying around it looks like. Okay so it seems like they need blueprints for something... oh they need blueprints for the giant ball in space so that they can attack it by means of an all-out fighter offensive. FUCK.
I know that Rogue One is a direct prequel to IV hence the plot, but jesus christ. Why am I supposed to go see this? It's like Nietzsche's eternal recurrence with Star Wars.
Tomasoares
Member
I've found both RO and TFA better than ROTJ and ANH lol
ROTJ takes quite a lot to get interesting, the whole sequence on Tatooine feels like filler and doesn't add anything to the story/universe (with the exception they're rescuing Solo, but that's not enough). Then you get to the main plot and there's all the Ewoks stuff. Their fight against the Empire makes the empire look so weak and fragile. Compare with Rogue One, where the empire clearly show dominance and power.
ANH is much better, but the movie drags a lot in tatooine (with droids walking in the desert zzzz and whiny Luke). Then you have Obi-wan vs Darth Vader fight which looks like a joke lol
ROTJ takes quite a lot to get interesting, the whole sequence on Tatooine feels like filler and doesn't add anything to the story/universe (with the exception they're rescuing Solo, but that's not enough). Then you get to the main plot and there's all the Ewoks stuff. Their fight against the Empire makes the empire look so weak and fragile. Compare with Rogue One, where the empire clearly show dominance and power.
ANH is much better, but the movie drags a lot in tatooine (with droids walking in the desert zzzz and whiny Luke). Then you have Obi-wan vs Darth Vader fight which looks like a joke lol
demosthenes
Member
Agree to disagree then. I don't think TFA is much better in terms of character development and they really only had 3 characters with any story, Rey, Finn & Ben. Most of our Ben backstory comes from the fact that we we know he's a Solo which takes prior movie knowledge. Yes Rey has it.
What's the difference in Finn and Bodi? Both are part of the Empire, though from different beginnings, in the end they don't like what they see and want to make a difference.
Did you need backstory on Baze and Chirrit? What were you looking for?
afternoon delight
Member
I think Rogue One is easily the best since the original trilogy and it will be the first Star Wars I've bought on home video since the original trilogy, but no. It's not the OGs. Even RotJ is on a whole other level from what we've seen so far in the Disneyverse.
If you find Finn and Bodi characters that were handled and explored in a similar way/manner, then I am sorry but yes we agree to disagree.
demosthenes
Member
I don't think they were because one movie had 2 main characters setup for 3 movies. One was a character part of a group 6 who were all going to die. From their backgrounds though they were both with the empire and wanted to make a difference. Yes I think Finn had more to him than Bodi but I don't think he was a masterpiece of a character compared to the cast of RO.
Lmao OK brah
what? he choked a dude through a fucking monitor, and now he cant choke someone behind him? dude, go see the OT again
So the only options were one or a lot? You can sell him being a good pilot without going "starkiller destroying 6 planets" levels of dumb.
demosthenes
Member
Thank you for this.
Laieon
Member
Was finally released in Korea today, really liked it. Not as good as The Force Awakens (which is my 2nd favorite, right behind Return of the Jedi) or the original trilogy, but not bad at all.
I went into it not expecting too much though, the way I'm looking at these "Star Wars Stories" movies are as something you don't need to watch, if you want just Star Wars you'll be fine with just the 3 trilogies. If you want a bit of extra or to get a little bit more exposition/information, that's where the Star Wars stories are supposed to come in. I think as the first one, Rogue One accomplished that pretty well.
I went into it not expecting too much though, the way I'm looking at these "Star Wars Stories" movies are as something you don't need to watch, if you want just Star Wars you'll be fine with just the 3 trilogies. If you want a bit of extra or to get a little bit more exposition/information, that's where the Star Wars stories are supposed to come in. I think as the first one, Rogue One accomplished that pretty well.
Is there any in-universe explanation why the X-Wings in R1 kick so much AT-AT butt, both with torpedos but also their standard laser cannons and then in ESB the Rebels seem to forget they have them in their arsenal and go for Snowspeeders?
Luke specifically states that the walkers are too heavily armored and they need to use their tow cable to topple them.
That was a bit of a wtf moment in R1 when they took down 2-3 of the walkers so easily. Seems like a pretty big oversight or worse, harming the OT's logic to get some nice splosions going.
Luke specifically states that the walkers are too heavily armored and they need to use their tow cable to topple them.
That was a bit of a wtf moment in R1 when they took down 2-3 of the walkers so easily. Seems like a pretty big oversight or worse, harming the OT's logic to get some nice splosions going.
demosthenes
Member
Not sure if this is canon but Xwings are actual figher jets. Snowspeaders are repurposed airspeeders (aka taxis I think). Would be my guess, also they needed there to be a sense of dread at the start of ESB?
That is true, but there were X-wings on Hoth; they were used to escort the transports off the planet, and Luke uses one to go to Dagobah. So yeah, I guess a bit of a hole, but eh.
Edit: Oh! Didn't know about AT-AT vs. AT-ACTs. The more you know!
Well they weren't straight AT-ATs but actually AT-ACTs: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Cargo_Transport
They weren't built for combat so they could actually have been weaker.
They were AT-ACT , not AT-AT :
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Cargo_Transport said:
These weren't AT-ATs, like in ESB, but rather AT-ACTs, which were more like transport vessels, rather than fully armored walkers. For all intents and purposes, they're the same thing, but slightly different to sell toys and to make the action better.
EDIT: Beaten, horribly.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I'm not sure how Rogue One improves anything on the original trilogy. It's a ho hum fanfic tier entry.
having these "AT-ACTs" carry lesser armor helps a bit, but still doesn't explain why the rebels would not head out in X-Wings and rather chose the poorer vehicles if they knew from that Scariff battle that X-Wings had a decent fighting chance against walkers, especially with proton torpedoes. I mean Luke HAS an X-Wing in ESB after he comes back to base and heads out to Dagobah.
gutter_trash
Banned
ANH is the easiest Star Wars movie to follow by a long shot and the only Star Wars movie that can stand alone as a stand alone movie with a story from start to finish without any cliffhnagers or tie ins
Noisy Ninj4
Member
And yet, the opening scene from ANH indicates Vader tracked her down real quick.
Alex_Mexico
Member
This is NeoGAF: if its not the GOAT then it must be garbage!
I think X-Wings were used to escort the escape vessels... That's what I remember at least.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
This really. I mean it's fine. It's maybe even good. But it exists because of the OT trilogy, the exchange of importance is purely one way.
demosthenes
Member
Yes it does. Scariff and Tatooine appear to be next door neighbors. No idea how accurate this is:
http://www.swgalaxymap.com/search/
They were. I don't think they wanted to risk having the Xwings damaged.
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