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[Septimius]

Out of all the ways the app is wrong, I think it's all beaten by Reggie saying he doesn't want people using big headsets, so it's a mobile app. Just how does that solve the problem in a way that couldn't be also solved by the Switch having native voice chat, and coming with a pair of earphones?

I was really shocked at the Switch reveal, since it seemed Nintendo really had things under control. I guess it was just some external company that managed to present things in a cohesive way, and keep the Nintendoing out of the spot light, cause Nitendo sure have Nintendoed this. They just tack on whatever poor explanation they can make for some bad decision. Before it's been the fact that "it should be about just putting in the game and go", but Nintendo sure aren't making it easy being a Switch player.

 

[meerak]

Sounds like an interesting idea! Bold, based on the reactions in here. I like it.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Well, I'm curious to see it at least.

Without knowing how exactly its implemented its difficult to say much about it, but conceptually the idea makes a lot of sense. Its somewhat surprising its coming from Nintendo in fact, as this is the sort of thing I would have expected from Microsoft.

You move your 'always online' requirements to the device you have with you that is always on and built specifically for messaging and communications, you decouple your social functions to a platform agnostic device that already has access to a list of your real world contacts and friends and can populate your friends list accordingly, you have a somewhat persistent ID for users so that problematic users can be identified and persistently banned at a more inconvenient level than buying a new console or creating a new username, and you are future proofed against having to recreate all of those social links in future, as you already have a device independent list that would let users of future hardware communicate with users of future IOS or android software. The practicalities of seamlessly integrating your phone with a seperate device I have no idea how they would handle. Ideally, it would be something as simple as pairing your Switch with your phone by tapping your phones NFC with the Switches, and letting all those features be slaved into the game accordingly. Or even automatically letting you use your phone as a limited wifi hotspot when enabled. The devils in the details though. Conceptually its not stupid, especially if it is intended as their basis for all future social features.

A lot of annoying kids and people less likely to act like a dick when it's tied to your personal device. I see what they are trying to do.

I know exactly why they are doing this: because they can't trust parents to implement parental controls... Can't you see it? No browser on the console. Friends via social media invites. Paid online functionality. Chat and matchmaking handled through an app. The biggest way any of these can be feasibly managed is by being an adult with a card to pay for things. So if you are a kid and lack any of the requirements, you are being forced to be kept "safe" by them preventing you from accessing anything in the first place....

Yeah, about that...:

The average age for a child getting their first smartphone is now 10.3 years

There is a vast difference in maturity levels between 10-12 year olds and 6-8 year olds. Nintendo is a consumer brand that is considered acceptable for the latter. I'm not surprised they would make this decision if they are going to offer more robust online features, even if I don't necessarily agree with it completely. There are other approaches that could have been taken, but this probably offers some synergy with other goals.

...while this makes logical sense in the perspectives you have presented it, it doesn't excuse the challenges it presents to the consumer in actual use. You may create solid operational reasons for going this route, but complete disregard the potential costs and limitations you might impose to your customer? These impositions exceed annoyances for issues that a service like PSN or Xbox Live might have in that now, you run into mobile data limitations and costs when free wi-fi isn't available and expect your customer to have the following constantly with available charge for use:

1) Charged console and Joy-cons (obviously)
2) Charged Cell phone with or without charged secondary juice pack/battery
3) Available Cell Data if Wi-fi isn't available including room within data cap being used for services you are paying are also paying for to Nintendo. Also customers may incur overage charges for a number of factors including if a family member uses a shared data plan to use the Switch online with Cell Data
4) Paid Wi-fi if Free isn't available
5) Expect all potential customers that want to play online own a Smart Phone...

No, I agree, user experience is going to be pretty integral to the whole thing, and its mostly pointless to speculate how that user experience will be because it could well be awkward and cumbersome as fuck. I'm just saying social features "as an app" conceptually makes a lot of sense. More sense for people who actually own smartphones than those that don't, I will admit though.

1. Not everyone owns a smartphone.
2. You are relying on an external device that may not always be available (lost/stolen/broken/in a repair shop = no Switch online for you).
3. Phone runs out of battery mid-game, you're probably booted out of your online session.
4. Many people install iOS/Android public betas, the app could potentially be broken on these beta OS's meaning these users cannot play online for months...
5. They are putting themselves in the hands of others - Apple's App Store goes on lockdown in like the last 2-3 weeks of December, and that's when there's most likely gonna be a problem if Switch (somehow) gets massive holiday sales. So they could be in a situation where they need to release an emergency app update and all the App Store employees are on Christmas vacation or whatever.
6. This ties up your phone. If you answer a phone call, it'll almost certainly end your online session (or at least the voice chat aspect).

Then there's the logistics of this...
7. You're not gonna be able to hold a cell phone to your ear while both hands are clutching a controller. So this leaves two options, headset or speakerphone.
8. Headset - the lightning earbuds included with the iPhone 7 block the charging port, so you are going to run into issue #3 (battery dying mid-game). Unless you buy a bluetooth headset, but then you run into more issues (hassles pairing / re-pairing the BT connection, another device to purchase, another device you have to monitor the battery levels of, etc.)
9. Speakerphone - is what most people will probably use and that sounds crappy. Since the phone is most likely going to be sitting on a coffee table or the other side of your couch, voices are going to be garbled as fuck, you're gonna hear the game noise on top of that, etc.

I would imagine it is the other way round - the Switch is slaved to the phone, not the 'master' controlling the phone. That way round you can do things like treat the Switch as basically fancy bluetooth headphones and route all voice to it so you only need earbuds connected to your Switch. I am entirely speculating though.

...I'm just saying that it seems the only way I can imagine it working. The phone does all the social app work and VOIP chat work through the app on the phone which also manages the lobbies, match-making and voice chat... then relays the sound and other data to the Switch for processing the sound to the headphones/chat headset along with game/system sound data processed from the onboard sound chipset. There is no other logical way for game sound to get to the headphones/headset unless Switch told the phone what game sound to put out to the headphones/headset, but I doubt that.

At least to me, the way he worded the whole thing feels more like the phone app will be the way you'll be able to get a friend room, lobbies, and such going. Not that the app will be the one handling the matchmaking, dealing with servers, hosts, connections, etc...

The battery implications aren't while the device is on and being actively used, its while its in standby / sleep mode and someone is messaging you. The 3DS burns through battery even in 'sleep mode' because its constantly streetpassing / checking for software updates / downloading news from Nitendo / whatever

This won't affect my ability to play online, but I worry about people without a smartphone or with limited data plans. I get that this probably saves system RAM and CPU power to avoid processing this information through the console, but is it really worth the tradeoff for the consumer? We already had lightweight voice chat and lobbies on the OG DS (Metroid Prime Hunters). Why on earth couldn't we have it here?

So devs get access to all 4 GB of RAM then...right?! I mean, there has to be a bright side to all of this.

I don't buy the "it saves RAM/CPU power" explanation at all. Halo 2 on the original Xbox with its paltry 64 MB of RAM had an excellent matchmaking system and perfectly competent voice chat, so why would the Switch need to use more than a trivial amount of resources for these features...

This actually makes a lot of sense since this is a portable console, without a 4G connection. If you're on the go without wifi, you can make your own hotspot then do voice chat and stuff on the phone too. That said, they should really have an integrated solution too. I've never actually chatted on a console though (mostly play on PC), so I have no expectations really. I imagine ppl used to PS/XBOX would be really confused by this.

It's probably because the Switch wont have Internet connectivity? So they needed a solution?

I do see a nice side to having all the online stuff on your phone:

It keeps all of that UI on a separate screen, ready to access mid game and keeps all the communicating you do on your phone, which you carry around for ... communication! Makes sense to me why they went for this. Access to your friends and what they are playing anywhere anytime.

If you for example, use the app while on your way home from work/school you can start prepping a party and inviting friends into a game before you get home and start playing? You hit send/accept invite and join game from that app, and the Switch wakes up from sleep, boots the game up and connects you right into the game with your friends the moment you're about to walk into home ... that sounds pretty damn nice.

Or even when you are at home already and your cooking dinner in the kitchen you usually take your phone with you right? You can let you friends know that you can't join right now but you will after dinner, instead of letting them wait and give up by the time you get back to the Switch to check on messages and invites.

But yeah, it sounds good to me. Even if it is all still on your phone when you're playing on the Switch, you keep your phone on the side and you don't have to mess around with menus mid-game to handle online stuff.

If Nintendo has created a uniform matchmaking and controls for muting players, managing voice chat settings etc. for all games on the Switch, and developers don't have to do the UI work for that stuff then that is also pretty nice. Consistency is good, and less work for developers too. Less OS RAM usage too if they move all that stuff on the phone.

I do see them eventually adding in the functionality for simple things you can do on the Switch like join a random match online and joining friend's games, but all the communicating and friend management side of things will probably stay on the phone app to begin with until the backlash, which there looks like there might be hah.

I'm willing to give this a try Nintendo and if it works well enough for me well, no complaints!

I see it as one of those knee-jerk negative reactions 'cause Nintendo' like the big part of the presentation being on the Joy-con motion controls, and a lot of people and journalists and youtubers dismissing ARMS and 1 2 Switch because of it.

But peoples impressions of ARMS use of motion control that actually got to try it suggest it's way more responsive and accurate then Wii's, which is why Wii had a lot of waggle as its motion controls were crap even with motion plus...

Interesting posts to consider, I think.

 

[Noitshado]

Tmobile offers Binge On service that allows unlimited data usage seperate from data cap for streaming. So maybe they could make deals with phone companies on a similar solution?
I feel their matchmaking and online and social solutions are aimed at meeting real people in your local community. Kind of how Pokemon GO was able to bring people together in puplic surroundings. Perhaps the app allows through permission for you to be discoverable using GPS and ready for invites of randoms on the go. Folks looking for players can use Google powered maps like Pokemon GO showing your local area with available players. Maybe you can also create hotspots creating a big indicator on the map and also showing current players at the hotspot. After playing with folks if you really like certain people you can decide to add to your friends list by touching phones together through nfc. That way you have real world people on your list of friends for more get togethers and also if you know people irl they have a certain level of accountability to lessen all the toxic crap that goes online? Setting up invites and game sessions on the go also makes alot of sense since notifying and checking being handled through your phone is the only logical solution. Voice chat however should still be handled through the console though. It literally makes no sense.

 

[Hip Hop]

Wooo some of the responses in this thread lol.

No social features on the Switch itself seems hella weird but we'll have to see as it fully rolls out. If it's all phone stuff it won't bother me all that much but I could see the teens having a problem with informing me of how they banged my mom with such ease.

Some of you guys need to relax with the outrage, on both sides. This isn't even the worst thing any company let alone Nintendo has done when it comes to features in gaming. There's always the option of not buying it. Just sayin.

As someone that plays online most of the time, this is pretty bad.

Using an app on another machine just to chat and play games? Absolutely one of the worst day decisions I've seen from a company.

It's so bad that I hope their messaging about this is wrong and it's all just optional.

 

[jmizzal]

Is this a joke post? Do you really think this form of voice chat is acceptable in 2017?

The original Xbox had system voice chat 15 YEARS AGO.

Love the dig that you gave PlayStation and Xbox titles too by the way. Very funny.

Why do people keep saying "In 2017"

This is the first time this has been done, now if they had no voice chat or the other stuff the "in 2017" would make sense, but what if this turns out the be a cool innovation

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Easily the dumbest thing Reggie has said in this whole mess has to be the "bulky headset" thing.

REGGIE HELP MY HEADSET IS TOO BIG IT'S PRACTICALLY BREAKING MY NECK.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

This is one of Nintendos smarter moves, I guess it will also serve as a hub for their mobile efforts, this will help merge those markets for them. Personally I don't care since I don't use voice chat anyhow.

Other platform holders already do this. Only their consoles also support these features. Because, regardless of whether you use them, there is no defensible reason for not having them baked in.

 

[The God]

Nintendo is the only one that makes Real Games™ and that means it's okay for them to lag behind the online services of their competitors in 2017 guys

 

[Milly Osworth]

With a smug look on his face Reggie continued:

"After you found a game on your smartphone app, to actually JOIN the game you need an Apple Watch, we made a seperate app specificly for that device with a Join button. We feel consumers will appreciate the sensation of joining a game in this new and innovative way, candidly. I liked Zelda before I started working for Nintendo!"

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Meh, this doesn't seem that weird to me. Everyone has a cellphone, so why not tie it to a device everybody universally uses?

I'm not really an online gamer though, so beats me.

 

[Briguy13]

You're the type of Nintendo fan people talk about bruh.

Good, because the worst thing in the world is someone who parrots what everyone else says in order to fit in and look cool.

Every website these days is filled with people who attack anyone who thinks differently than the masses. Well, I'm a big boy and can take the hate. Honestly, it's better than being ignored.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Dumbest thing since batteries in controllers.

Are you saying this is a smart move then?

 

[KaYotiX]

Man all this chat info and lobbies using the phone really has me worried

 

[xxracerxx]

Some of you guys need to relax with the outrage, on both sides. This isn't even the worst thing any company let alone Nintendo has done when it comes to features in gaming. There's always the option of not buying it. Just sayin.

Ahh yes, don't worry about it because some other company has done worse before. Such a great response. Just sayin.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Meh, this doesn't seem that weird to me. Everyone has a cellphone, so why not tie it to a device everybody universally uses?

I'm not really an online gamer though, so beats me.

Every Switch owner will also own a Switch too.

 

[Platy]

We don't know anything, maybe the app plays the sound of the game too =P

All I know is that all this smartphone integration will totally be used for switch hacking

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Good, because the worst thing in the world is someone who parrots what everyone else says in order to fit in and look cool.

Every website these days is filled with people who attack anyone who thinks differently than the masses. Well, I'm a big boy and can take the hate. Honestly, it's better than being ignored.

There's nothing inherently wrong with thinking differently. No one's criticizing the entire concept of thinking differently. There IS something wrong with putting square tires on a car, just because everyone else makes round ones.

This solution is fucking square tire.

And defending that square tire? That doesn't make you a free thinking. It's makes you a mouthpiece for a multi-billion dollar corporation's utter nonsense.

 

[smoothj]

It's whatever to me. It might be easier to manage friends list and chats and such.

I'm optimistic.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Perhaps the console OS can manage matchmaking and voice chat.

How do we voice chat when the console is docked though? Wireless headsets only? Super long headset cables? There's only a headphones port in the main unit, none in the controllers (not even the pro controller). Seems like the phone app is their solution.

 

[jmizzal]

Easily the dumbest thing Reggie has said in this whole mess has to be the "bulky headset" thing.

REGGIE HELP MY HEADSET IS TOO BIG IT'S PRACTICALLY BREAKING MY NECK.

Reggie is talking out of his rear end and spit balling PR, we need a real detailed explanation from somebody else at Nintendo

 

[D i Z]

Every Switch owner will also own a Switch too.

Get outta here with that logic!!!

 

[Briguy13]

Just imagine you are playing Switch at home. You have headphones on, because, well, you like gaming with headphones.

And you want to talk to your friend Bob while playing Splatoon, because hell, you are paying monthly for a goddamn online service and want to talk to Bob.

Now you have to get your phone, load an app, and plug in headphones into your smart phone.

You now have to wear two sets of headphones. One for Bob, which connects to your dying phone. Another for the Switch. If both are plugged into charging devices, you now have:

-a cable running from your power outlet to your Switch with another cable running from the Switch to your headphones,

-a cable running from your power outlet to your phone with another cable running to the headphone,

....you are wearing two sets of goddamn headphones and tangled in cords.


This is all something everyone else in the collective gaming world had figured out since the early 2000s. Hell, even the Wii/WiiU supported a headset to talk to people in Call of Duty.

It's all clunky and confusing as fuck. There's no excuse for it. All I can imagine is that it is being poorly communicated.

Yeah, it's dumb of Nintendo to do that, but it's not the end of the world like Sony and Microsoft fans are making it out to be.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

I hope there's tablet support.

They say smart device which gives the impression that it should.

 

[xxracerxx]

What happens when I get a phone call?

 

[Yukinari]

You know what can i just mod my gamecube mic or plug in Wii Speak and use those instead?

 

[Septimius]

Meh, this doesn't seem that weird to me. Everyone has a cellphone, so why not tie it to a device everybody universally uses?

I'm not really an online gamer though, so beats me.

You know what's 100% guaranteed that all Switch-users will have? A Switch.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Good, because the worst thing in the world is someone who parrots what everyone else says in order to fit in and look cool.

Every website these days is filled with people who attack anyone who thinks differently than the masses. Well, I'm a big boy and can take the hate. Honestly, it's better than being ignored.

But why should anyone excuse Nintendo for having online features behind their previous console, let alone the original 11 year old version of one of their competitors?

Think about that for a second. The Switch, in 2017, has a less intuitive and less feature laden online service than the 360 launched with in 2005. How is that in any way acceptable?

 

[Trojita]

Yeah, it's dumb of Nintendo to do that, but it's not the end of the world like Sony and Microsoft fans are making it out to be.

🤔

Because only Sony and Microsoft fans don't agree with this.

 

[Peléo]

I'm extremely curious to see the app in action, wonder if it is as clunky as I'm imagining it.

My phone's battery is garbage, so having to constantly charge it while playing will be already an annoyance.

 

[Lemrik]

Maybe a stupid question, but...

how the fuck do i play Bomberman online until fall??

 

[KingSnake]

You're a Switch now, you're a phone now.

You're dropping both on the floor now.

 

[Trojita]

Just imagine you are playing Switch at home. You have headphones on, because, well, you like gaming with headphones.

And you want to talk to your friend Bob while playing Splatoon, because hell, you are paying monthly for a goddamn online service and want to talk to Bob.

Now you have to get your phone, load an app, and plug in headphones into your smart phone.

You now have to wear two sets of headphones. One for Bob, which connects to your dying phone. Another for the Switch. If both are plugged into charging devices, you now have:

-a cable running from your power outlet to your Switch with another cable running from the Switch to your headphones,

-a cable running from your power outlet to your phone with another cable running to the headphone,

....you are wearing two sets of goddamn headphones and tangled in cords.


This is all something everyone else in the collective gaming world had figured out since the early 2000s. Hell, even the Wii/WiiU supported a headset to talk to people in Call of Duty.

It's all clunky and confusing as fuck. There's no excuse for it. All I can imagine is that it is being poorly communicated.

It's likely that the game audio will stream to the phone.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

But why should anyone excuse Nintendo for having online features behind their previous console, let alone the original 11 year old version of one of their competitors?

Think about that for a second. The Switch, in 2017, has a less intuitive and less feature laden online service than the 360 launched with in 2005. How is that in any way acceptable?

Because it's different! Gosh. This isn't rocket surgery for fuck's sake.

 

[newtypepilot]

it's sad that the Nintendo diehards' only defense is down to "let's wait and see. we need more information!"

There is simply zero excuse for this type of implementation of voice chat. The only rationale besides "Nintendo being out of touch" is that they either don't care or completely forgot about voice chat. This via-the-app voice chat is their last minute band-aid solution. Granted, it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I can't think of anything else other that just pure ignorance.

Also, putting this behind a paywall is rubbing salt on the wound.

 

[jmizzal]

What happens when I get a phone call?

The app should be able to keep running just like most smart phone apps when you get a call, you can prob mute yourself on voice chat or keep talking, I have been online plenty of times where people were on their phones and talking over voice chat head phones at the same time

 

[Speely]

At least everyone is judging based on 100% complete info. Would be embarrassing otherwise.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Yeah, it's dumb of Nintendo to do that, but it's not the end of the world like Sony and Microsoft fans are making it out to be.

Yeah it's not like any Nintendo fans are side eyeing this at all.

Just those other guys.

Yeah.

 

[joecanada]

Jesus Christ, Zelda with a friend would make my 43 year old ass actually wear this. I've already used my bathrobe tie kung fu style to hold my broken Pulse Elites on my head when playing Destiny. Can someone put this on my Avatar? I'll use it until the release date.

What the flying fuck?? Please tell me you have pictures of that pulse setup

 

[hEist]

Wtf? Then why they even insert wifi into it? Because of purchasing games then?
This cant be real. Guess it's optional

 

[Three]

You know, this might not be that bad an idea. Especially if it is feasible to do any kind of online play on the go.

 

[kevin1025]

Yeah, it's dumb of Nintendo to do that, but it's not the end of the world like Sony and Microsoft fans are making it out to be.

End of the world in what way? I sincerely don't understand what you mean.

Wearing two different headphones for the purpose of playing a game, in this scenario, is a little silly.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

So does this solution meantime EVERYONE will be listening in the voice chat from the phone?! What if I want to use the headphone jack on switch and immerse myself plus not disturbing other people around me yet people would be hearing people screaming through my phone from the switch app?

It feels so backwards

 

[TheSpoiler]

At least everyone is judging based on 100% complete info. Would be embarrassing otherwise.

This is straight from Reggies mouth. What do you expect of people?

 

[Siege.exe]

Good, because the worst thing in the world is someone who parrots what everyone else says in order to fit in and look cool.

Every website these days is filled with people who attack anyone who thinks differently than the masses. Well, I'm a big boy and can take the hate. Honestly, it's better than being ignored.

"It's okay to be full of shit as long as everyone knows I'm full of shit"

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

🤔

Because only Sony and Microsoft fans don't agree with this.

Doncha know? Only Xbots and Sony Ponies lack the understanding that the glorious Big N knows all! Which is why, as someone whose top 5 franchises are 80% Nintendo IPs and has bought the last 5 Nintendo consoles day one, I am merely shitting all over this brilliant plan because I play too much of teh Halos!

 

[Briguy13]

But why should anyone excuse Nintendo for having online features behind their previous console, let alone the original 11 year old version of one of their competitors?

Think about that for a second. The Switch, in 2017, has a less intuitive and less feature laden online service than the 360 launched with in 2005. How is that in any way acceptable?

The 360 introduced a lot of things, some good some bad. With the release of that console, gaming took a turn and some of us didn't like that direction. It released a pandora's box of micro transactions, focus on online gaming and shooters.

I don't see why Nintendo should carry the torch for a direction that Japan doesn't want to go.

 

[Mass Appeal]

Voice chat is going to be there for those that want it.I love my PS4 and it has the most variety of all the systems. Still doesn't change the fact that this gen has literally been filled with remasters to fill a void from games that take to long to make.

This generation has been very lacking up to this point, but 2017 is looking very promising. I just wonder if there will be a steady flow of new games throughout the gen.

But not on the console and through the app. Again, beyond stupid.

You know Nintendo could still have built in voice chat through the console and still makw their games right?

My friends and i who all own a ps4 were interested in the switch mainly because of great games like Smash Bros, Splatoon 2, and Mario Kart because we were excited about playing them online with each other while being in a party chat lobby just like we do on the ps4.

What we all thought was going to happen when we first hear Nintendo was going to charge for online was that it would have a similar built in party chat client like ps4/xb1 do where we could plug a ear bud like mic the ps4 ships with and play those great games talking and joking amongst each other. I guess Nintendo doesn't see it that way.

 

[daviyoung]

What happens when I get a phone call?

Why doesn't the caller have a Switch?

 

[LAA]

Christ, this is looking bad.
Made 50x worse than Nintendo want us to PAY to use this "convenient" service.
This is a totally typical Nintendo move honestly. Instead of using an accepted standard, they try and include something better, but in this case, literally nothing about this sounds better.
Need details on this ASAP.