flaxknuckles
Member
Well why didn't he give the spear to Wonder Woman
Wonder Woman Is a Disjointed Disaster (Says DC Insider)
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Well why didn't he give the spear to Wonder Woman
Wonder Woman could have used the spear. The only reason Superman does it is so he can die.
Also, why did Lois throw the spear in the water, only to realize for no reason that she needs to get it back to help the fight on the other side of town that she hasn't been following?
The grenade got tossed into a training exercise.
Superman got nuked, he didn't allow shit.
Superman could've thrown the spear into Doomsday and stay out of harm's way. Instead he chose to let Doomsday impale him.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Thats why Superman is an idiot
broncobuster
Banned
Wonder Woman was holding Doomsday with her lasso. I guess he could've given her the spear and tried holding Doomsday, but you'd reach the same conclusion.
Prepare yourself for a massive flow chat response
They could have went full DBZ with it and gave the spear to Wonder Woman while Superman holds Doomsday in place from behind. SPECIAL BEAM CANNONNNNNNN
broncobuster
Banned
Already the heat vision beam struggle between Supes and Doomsday is the most DBZ thing I've seen in a movie.
The target can also avoid it, which is why WW holds him in place. Not to mention Superman had to push the spear through Doomsday after the initial impact.
flaxknuckles
Member
People can throw spears
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Batman v. Superman (and to a lesser extent, Man of Steel) are movies written and executed according to Zack Snyder's methodology, which is not to tell a story in which characterizations are the key, but to tell a story in which set "cool" moments are pre-determined, and the story is there to chain those cool moments together.
It's kinda fundamentally backwards - normally the cool moments (when they hit) come out of the characterization naturally leading to them. With Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, the cool moments ARE the point, and then characters, and their actions, are reverse-engineered to arrive there. Sometimes that reverse-engineering can work. It's not an invalid way to construct a story. You just have to be pretty good at making it feel organic and natural.
Man of Steel and Batman v Superman do not feel organic and natural, and so people zero in on the stringy, weak connections from "cool" moment to "cool" moment, and see the seams for what they are: reverse engineered excuses for unearned moments.
Is that what happened with Wonder Woman? Who knows. We can't even talk about how/why these movies are disappointing with any sort of focus all that well, because a litany of meta concerns and team-sports-style projections blanket almost every attempt.
It's kinda fundamentally backwards - normally the cool moments (when they hit) come out of the characterization naturally leading to them. With Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, the cool moments ARE the point, and then characters, and their actions, are reverse-engineered to arrive there. Sometimes that reverse-engineering can work. It's not an invalid way to construct a story. You just have to be pretty good at making it feel organic and natural.
Man of Steel and Batman v Superman do not feel organic and natural, and so people zero in on the stringy, weak connections from "cool" moment to "cool" moment, and see the seams for what they are: reverse engineered excuses for unearned moments.
Is that what happened with Wonder Woman? Who knows. We can't even talk about how/why these movies are disappointing with any sort of focus all that well, because a litany of meta concerns and team-sports-style projections blanket almost every attempt.
FunkyPajamas
Member
I wonder what Supes would have said if he'd grabbed the lasso of truth.
"I could have totally saved Pa Kent."
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Not to mention that he likes to take "cool" moments from comic books for reasons that don't seem to go beyond "it would be cool to have this in a movie" which is why he made a movie featuring the old Batman from Dark Knight Returns and an adaptation of Death of Superman in the same movie where they are trying to set up the Justice League's origin.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Oh no lol..
broncobuster
Banned
That's unfortunately how many blockbusters are handled. It's in ways how video games stories have always been handled. It's simply easier and cheaper to rewrite around scenes in most cases. As you say, it can be handled well (most of Avengers), or innocuously (Civil War airport scene), or poorly (BvS Knightmare scene).
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This is 100% true of BvS, but I don't see it for Man of Steel at all. Man of Steel isn't particularly built around moments the way BvS is.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Discotheque
Banned
Actually he saw the nuke but chose to take the hit in order to keep doomsday in its line of fire
But y'all can stay crying about how this superman doesn't meet your expectations or whatever lol
That's because the 'moments' in MoS aren't meant to be 'cool' but 'epic' and 'transcendent'
Superman walking out of the fortress moments before flying
Superman drifting in space,arms outstretched for christ-like imagery
and of course, Superman killing Zod.
In Zach's mind, Supes killing Zod is the big moment and probably thought it would hit real hard with the audience when he didn't lay the groundwork for us to care why this should be seen as a big deal.
No thanks, I'd rather not celebrate garbage movies being made simply because they feature characters I love.
Diprosalic
Banned
This is one of the worst things i've read in a while.
why should critics give a shit how much money a movie makes? This is not how this works.
This is just the beginning. It gets dumber real quick.
For most people he doesn't for obvious reasons.=p
Bobby must've watched a different movie from me cause I sure as hell don't remember really a lot of cool moments...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
the quotation marks are there for a reason, Fex!
fredrancour
Member
the dude put most instances of "cool" in quotes. he clearly wasn't impressed either. but i'm sure there were some setpieces in there intended to be big action-packed payoffs? i haven't seen either film.
Absolutely. Man of Steel has the fight in Smallville, the thing with the World Engine, and the big knock down drag out fight with Zod. Also moments of "cool" imagery like Superman sinking into a bunch of skulls, the flight scene, etc.
Batman v Superman had a bunch of stuff literally thrown in to be cool, like the 350 dream sequences Batman has (which make more sense as ways to throw in cool images they couldn't stretch the story to support), the random videos of the justice league, and the fight scenes. And let's not forget the return of the overbearing Christ imagery.
RedAssedApe
Banned
hope this can be like a rogue one situation...but with WB/DC recent movie track record...i can see why people aren't that confident
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Man of Steel also rips a cool line from Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman because it sounds cool even though the context is completely different.
Wasn't the fight the first time he even met Wonder Woman, probably didn't want to put her in danger. For all he knows she could be another kryptonian, considering the only people in the world with that kind of power have been Kryptonian so far.
Got me again Bobby!
That kind of fits the movie character though.
It's irrelevant how long they've known each other. There's a monster that needs to be put down and Diana isn't scared. Some quick dialogue solves the issue.
Batman: The Kryptonite spear can kill it. I'd suggest that Superman use it, but just holding it would weaken him too much.
Wonder Woman: Please, allow me.
He died for nothing. There was another super person right there that could have done the job. Bad writing all around.
kunonabi
Member
He had no trouble passing judgment on his entire Kyrptonian race in Man of Steel so I don't see why he would care now.
Superman should have kept it busy while Wonder Woman snuck around. I guess Batman needed another another year of preptime and crossfit to figure that out
World's Greatest Detective
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
This is almost as good as 'tell that to Zod's snapped neck'. Almost.
And no jar of piss to wash em down.
I don't know if it's so much not thinking things through as much as the idea that wonder woman delivering the final blow is just not something that could concievably happen in the minds of the writers.
I mean, this movie is kind of...overwhelmingly masculine. It's something I've kinda struggled to articulate, and this article does a good job of putting it on paper about how it's toxic masculinity that ruins the film and everything (and there are other articles if you do a google search), but even going beyond that, stuff like Cross fit and the hyper aggression of the characters and the inability to talk things and how the suits emphasize the male physique more than any marvel movie or past DC movies and a lot of the language ("You're not a man" "He made me half a man") and so on just kind of makes it feel like this is a film that's just...for men, or atleast ones with an overattachment to their sense of masculinity.
As such, the very idea of a woman being the one to step in and fix things, even if it's the logical option, feels like its something the audience, or atleast the intended audience, would consider an insult, even emasculating. It's something that doesn't happen because it didn't occur to the writer, but more like it's something that just isn't in the writers creative vision to happen.
I mean, this movie is kind of...overwhelmingly masculine. It's something I've kinda struggled to articulate, and this article does a good job of putting it on paper about how it's toxic masculinity that ruins the film and everything (and there are other articles if you do a google search), but even going beyond that, stuff like Cross fit and the hyper aggression of the characters and the inability to talk things and how the suits emphasize the male physique more than any marvel movie or past DC movies and a lot of the language ("You're not a man" "He made me half a man") and so on just kind of makes it feel like this is a film that's just...for men, or atleast ones with an overattachment to their sense of masculinity.
As such, the very idea of a woman being the one to step in and fix things, even if it's the logical option, feels like its something the audience, or atleast the intended audience, would consider an insult, even emasculating. It's something that doesn't happen because it didn't occur to the writer, but more like it's something that just isn't in the writers creative vision to happen.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
They should have just had superman and doomsday beat the fuck out of each other until they both died like in the comic. It's a more elegant solution and you'd get more action instead of having to watch Lois go get the spear.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
HER HEART'S OUT!!! WE CAN END THIS!!!
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
*throws pistol in slow motion*
Yep, that would had been neat.
Discotheque
Banned
Lol. Pretty terrible suggestions for sure
I get what veelk is saying with the hyper masculine nature of the film. I noticed that as well. Pretty insulting to insinuate that its audience would be repelled by a woman intervening though.
Also I liked how self important and grandiose this movie felt. It could have been much better thought out and some scenes should have been excised but its wack how some people are so opposed to the films tone and presentation more than anything.
FunkyPajamas
Member
It's all about the details man.
The actual dialogue is not what's important in my post, but I think you know that.
broncobuster
Banned
A lot of the toxic masculinity is definitely a running theme in the movie, while I don't feel it totally sticks the landing. But the idea the audience wouldn't be into it, I mean, Wonder Woman saves Batman. And at several points they have characters more or less say a woman makes them better men.
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