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[FelixFFM]

After all the "not this shit again" posts, it's sad to see how far this thread has gone.

This is seriously some Chevy VS Ford type of stuff. It doesn't matter. Drive whatever you want. If console gamers eventually decide the advantages of PCs are worth building a rig, they'll do it. If PC gamers eventually decide they want to switch over to the simpler experience of consoles, they'll do it. Or they'll just game on both if they can afford it. It's fine. You're fine. We're all fine.

It's pretty obvious why PC fans can't just let this go.
They feel that their platform and gaming in general is being held back by consoles and their technical restrictions. They think that the more people they can "convince" to switch to PC, the more PC-centric features they get and maybe, just maybe, there will be another Crysis, the elusive AAA PC exclusive that is really pushing what PC hardware can accomplish.

You don't see console fans trying to convince PC gamers to jump ship.

 

[GamerMax73]

you're so blind in your conviction against PC gaming

I have no convictions against PC gaming.

(which isn't "backwards compatibility" you know),

I know.

and then in the next paragraph talk about how modding is hobbyist...

So, a major selling point why the gamers should drop console and adopt PC gaming is...they can mod, skin, hack the games? This is something most gamers find value in? Not a few gamers who particularly like certain titles?

Engaging with you must be exhausting.

Totally. I struggle getting passed the voices in my head.

 

[ajjow]

I dont know how to mount a PC gaming machine. I use mac. I'll have to learn about windows and I hate it.

 

[GamerMax73]

After all the "not this shit again" posts, it's sad to see how far this thread has gone.

This is seriously some Chevy VS Ford type of stuff. It doesn't matter. Drive whatever you want. If console gamers eventually decide the advantages of PCs are worth building a rig, they'll do it. If PC gamers eventually decide they want to switch over to the simpler experience of consoles, they'll do it. Or they'll just game on both if they can afford it. It's fine. You're fine. We're all fine.

Well said.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I dont know how to mount a PC gaming machine. I use mac. I'll have to learn about windows and I hate it.

Did you know there are 9840 games for MacOS on Steam alone right now? Most of them ones that will work even on more modest Macbooks

 

[somuchwater]

I have a PC but with a poor video card, and somehow it just irks me to spend $200 on a video card, when a console is only a little more. So I just keep putting it off because it doesn't really seem that important.

 

[Mifec]

Cheapest I can get a gaming-capable PC for here is about $750CAD + tax, which after taxes is around $300 more than a PS4 Pro, so 4 years and change of PS+ if I pay full price for PS+. And this is with a Geforce 1050 so not exactly a massive 4k 60fps system.

For games here's my receipt for Resident Evil 7 on PS4.

That's about $44 USD. If you can find me a PC copy for that price after taxes I'm all ears.

Outside of the US, game prices are kind of out of wack for digital copies, and by extension almost all PC games, while prices of retail copies can be substantially cheaper. Even for the few games which get retail PC releases, they don't often get the same discounts due to being perceived as a niche product. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

It could be gotten for 31 dollars up to release on PC. You can get the new Prey for 33 atm too. I paid 20 bucks for ROTR on release day without any price errors, for a steam copy.

 

[lastplayed]

I hate using a keyboard and mouse on the couch.

 

[univbee]

£29.99 at Gamersgate - which is $37.90 - and yes Gamersgate are legit

Hmmm, I know they're legit as I bought from them way back in the day, but pricing's been not good in Canada. I wonder if they let you pay in whatever currency you want, because their CAD pricing is higher.

 

[Shivershorts]

I think it's been an entertaining conversation tbh, I've enjoyed it. I think forums always do well with good ol conversations that get everyone chiming in

Entertaining for sure. Though I think some of the petty bickering is just silly.

Personally, I'm a transitioning PC gamer. I'm approaching 30, time is becoming more scarce as money is becoming more abundant. I don't get rid of my games/consoles, and I realized that if I keep going I'm just going to end up hoarding generations and generations of games while not even being able to keep up. I just got a PS4 and plan on getting a Wii U on the Switch release.

My concern has become backward compatibility, options, longevity, and space. I don't want to keep collecting discs and hardware. My favorite games of all time are all console exclusives, but that's just something I'll have to sacrifice for the sake of my new priorities.

I was reluctant to make the switch for all the reasons listed: ease of use, plug-and-play, no compatibility/driver issues, etc. And all of those reasons are still valid. Just for me personally, the advantages of PC are now more relevant to me at my stage in life.

It all depends on the person.

 

[MutFox]

Hmmm, I know they're legit as I bought from them way back in the day, but pricing's been not good in Canada. I wonder if they let you pay in whatever currency you want, because their CAD pricing is higher.

49.99 CDN no taxes...
CDkeys.

 

[Nzyme32]

Hmmm, I know they're legit as I bought from them way back in the day, but pricing's been not good in Canada. I wonder if they let you pay in whatever currency you want, because their CAD pricing is higher.

Not too sure. I know that the keys work in other places though depending on the game. I bought a game from gamersgate a while back for someone on GAF who is in Australia, just because the price was so much better in the UK.

 

[GamerMax73]

I dont know how to mount a PC gaming machine. I use mac. I'll have to learn about windows and I hate it.

To be honest I used to have a preference for OSX. In all my years working and supporting PC, I have to say Win10 is the best yet. Very stable. I don't miss OS X at all.

My only concern is with windows updates. I think it might be a laptop issue, however I dread restarting incase it doesn't come back up - very, very slow at applying updates. For this I found Win7 a lot better.

Still Windows itself, very good.

What mac have you got? Maybe running Windows in Parallels will give you what you want?

 

[potatohead]

£29.99 at Gamersgate - which is $37.90 - and yes Gamersgate are legit

You converted to the wrong currency. That's CAD.

Your actual price is 49.51 CAD. So it's actually the same.

 

[Camoxide]

I remember there being some things that would annoy and put me off spending any decent money on a better rig .

Man I used to hate how you used to have to cross your fingers and hope a game launches without issues. Seems much better nowadays, I rarely get issues.

Also didn't like using keyboard and mouse for some games or sitting a desk. Xbox 360 controller and a long HDMI lead fixed that.

 

[Nzyme32]

You converted to the wrong currency. That's CAD.

Your actual price is 49.51 CAD.

Nope

Wait - I thought he wanted it in USD, hence the "That's about $44 USD" line. In CAD it would be that, but then what he bought is $57.45

 

[Beaulieu]

cash, convenience and lack of space

 

[Nzyme32]

cash, convenience and lack of space

If you can fit a console in your place, you can fit a PC of a similar size and without sacrificing upgradability and power possibilites. Super outdated notion.

 

[Birgitte2004]

I see these complaints a lot and they were valid...10-15 years ago. Windows 10, Nvidia, Steam and other companies have basically made PC gaming fool proof. Drivers are automatically updated if you choose, bugs are rare these days and fixed fairly quickly and if you build a good machine, it can last you a decade now. I've played probably 30 PC games from start to finish in 2016 and I had one crash which required nothing more than to restart the game.

Things are different now and better than ever.

Why do PC-ists always try to underplay this?

I am not imagining that multiple PC games I've purchased over the last few years had serious issues on launch that meant I simply couldn't run them.

They are still valid. You, as an individual, avoiding them doesn't make these things invalid. The last one, Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+, was a whopping two weeks ago.

 

[Shivershorts]

It's pretty obvious why PC fans can't just let this go.
They feel that their platform and gaming in general is being held back by consoles and their technical restrictions. They think that the more people they can "convince" to switch to PC, the more PC-centric features they get and maybe, just maybe, there will be another Crysis, the elusive AAA PC exclusive that is really pushing what PC hardware can accomplish.

You don't see console fans trying to convince PC gamers to jump ship.

While you may be making a generalization, elitism and entitlement need to die. You get what you get. Publishers/devs don't owe anyone anything.

Consoles aren't going to die. Let's live in harmony.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Why do PC-ists always try to underplay this?

I am not imagining that multiple PC games I've purchased over the last few years had serious issues on launch that meant I simply couldn't run them.

They are still valid. You, as an individual, avoiding them doesn't make these things invalid. The last one, Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+, was a whopping two weeks ago.

But a lot can be attiributed to a shitty Pc. Alot of people buy shit pcs and yea, they suck. But any good Pc with good parts, and cared for and kept clean, will run games pretty much flawlessly

 

[Septimus Prime]

I prefer the simplicity of consoles, personally. It's 100% compatible with its own games, there's only one (or two) set of hardware specs, and its UX is designed around its limited functionality. No need to customize anything, and if the console breaks, it doesn't really affect anything but its own games.

 

[Arthimura]

Most games i like are console exclusives, so there's no point in getting a powerful PC if basically there's no games i want to play on it.

My favourite platforms are from Nintendo and Sony, because of their first-party titles and some third-party exclusives. And i don't have so much free time to justify having multiple consoles/handhelds AND a PC.

I also don't care that much about graphics.

 

[Birgitte2004]

But a lot can be attiributed to a shitty Pc. Alot of people buy shit pcs and yea, they suck. But any good Pc with good parts, and cared for and kept clean, will run games pretty much flawlessly

So knowing absolutely nothing about my PC it's immediately my fault that I bought a shitty one. Thanks for the "case-in-point" of PC-ists trying to underplay the problem.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

So knowing absolutely nothing about my PC it's immediately my fault that I bought a shitty one. Thanks for the "case-in-point" of PC-ists trying to underplay the problem.

With the sea of information at people's fingertips, there's no excuse for a person to not do a little research before making a purchase like that. I'm sure in one or two searches people would see that a Pc from Walmart, or staples, or wherever are typically not pcs you want to buy for gaming.

I'm just saying that Yea, people spend 450 bucks on some pre-built without researching are not going to flawlessly run games.

It's just how it is, anything I ever step into... I research, that's not asking or expecting a lot.

 

[Lister]

PC-ists

Lol. This fucking thread.

 

[truly101]

1. Satisfied with the console experience.
2. Not a huge graphics-phile.
3. While PC gaming is cheap, its still a few hundred dollars to commit to a somewhat capable gaming rig, that I can spend on games for a system I already own.
4. Console games have a format uniformity, I do not have to worry about graphics cards, ram or other modular components being up to snuff to run the game at a satisfactory level. While we can argue about some console games not being optimized for that particular console, thats more on the software developer rather than if my PS4 or XB1 can run it. Thats also something the PC is not immune from either, see Arkham Knight.

Even though PC gaming is far easier and less arcane than is was in the 90s and early 2000s its still a more dedicated venture to maintain than console gaming, at least for me.

 

[GamerMax73]

But a lot can be attiributed to a shitty Pc. Alot of people buy shit pcs and yea, they suck. But any good Pc with good parts, and cared for and kept clean, will run games pretty much flawlessly

Oh Dude, and I had such respect for some of your posts! The idea that my poor little laptop, the best I can afford, might be a "shitty PC" is exactly what keeps me gaming on console.

 

[Marceles]

I don't think people who won't spend money on a PC realize how cheap games are on it. The amount you spend on a console will catch up to how much you paid for the PC.

 

[Raptor]

Nothing.

But I dont even know where to start and Im scared to even ask in the PC threads.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Oh Dude, and I had such respect for some of your posts! The idea that my poor little laptop, the best I can afford, might be a "shitty PC" is exactly what keeps me gaming on console.

But I said it before that's fine, if someone can't afford a Pc and saving up for one isn't possible there's nothing a person can do about that, and I don't condemn someone in that situation.

What I'm saying is alot of reported problems, most of the time, are probably in pre built machines that aren't suited for gaming and then they post about it and people see it as Pc gaming being shitty when a lot of the time it's what some are trying to force gaming on.

The point is that when someone enters the picture with Pc in mind, it can be a great experience if they go about it the right way. That Goes for anything I say, if I wanted to get into working on muscle cars I'm sure there's simply a "way" to go about it.

 

[Atraveller]

I don't think people who won't spend money on a PC realize how cheap games are on it. The amount you spend on a console will catch up to how much you paid for the PC.

PSN/XBL subscriptions also add up.

Nothing.

But I dont even know where to start and Im scared to even ask in the PC threads.

I Need A New PC thread on GAF has the most friendly and helpful people on the entire forum.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Nothing.

But I dont even know where to start and Im scared to even ask in the PC threads.

Don't be scared to ask man, Pc gamers are notoriously known to help get folks who don't know and want to know on the right path. When you see how easy it truly can be, it's a rewarding experience.

That's what this thread is intended for, guys like you who maybe aren't sure and don't know certain things and might be enlightened to try it and see how fun it can be

 

[SpiceMelange]

What's holding me back? NCIX not shipping my PC!

15 business days is bollocks.

Going from a
i7 930,
HD5850,
4gb ram
1tb 7200rpm hdd

to a
7700k,
gtx 1080 (going green),
32gb ddr4 3400mhz,
1tb ssd + 3tb hdd.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

What's holding me back? NCIX not shipping my PC!

15 business days is bollocks.

Going from a
i7 930,
HD5850,
4gb ram
1tb 7200rpm hdd

to a
7700k,
gtx 1080 (going green),
32gb ddr4 3400mhz,
1tb ssd + 3tb hdd.

 

[Nabs]

Nothing.

But I dont even know where to start and Im scared to even ask in the PC threads.

I think the "I Need a PC!" thread would surprise you. It's designed for those who know absolutely nothing about building one, those who know everything, and everyone in between. Give it a look.

What's holding me back? NCIX not shipping my PC!

15 business days is bollocks.

Going from a
i7 930,
HD5850,
4gb ram
1tb 7200rpm hdd

to a
7700k,
gtx 1080 (going green),
32gb ddr4 3400mhz,
1tb ssd + 3tb hdd.

Congrats on the new build. Your old PC still has plenty of potential, I hope it's going to a good home.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Nothing. I just refuse to...

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I don't think people who won't spend money on a PC realize how cheap games are on it. The amount you spend on a console will catch up to how much you paid for the PC.

That's not universally true. If someone on consoles is...

-Mostly only playing new AAA releases.

-Buying with 20% discount via GCU/Amazon Prime (if available in their country of course)

-Selling after beating

...they're going to come out ahead. I mean yeah, RE7 has been $30-40 on CD Keys which is great for people who want it digital and to keep (I bought it from them). But for the console gamer that wants to buy physical, beat and sell, that's a much better deal. $48+ tax after the discount and it's a short game so they should be able to sell it for about what they paid for it if they beat it in a few days. I kind of wish I'd gone that route as I don't see myself replaying this--I was just to lazy to swing by Best Buy yesterday and wanted to play after work on impulse after a shitty day.

Consoles being physical also gives the option of renting (be it Redbox, Gamefly or a local shop for those that still have them) which can be even cheaper.

The cheap games offsetting the cost argument really only works for those of us who buy a lot of cheap older games, indies, want digital collections etc. It's a big benefit for us, but it's certainly not universally cheaper for every type of gamer as some people try to argue in these threads.

 

[SpiceMelange]

I'm very excited, can't wait to finally try Doom

I think the "I Need a PC!" thread would surprise you. It's designed for those who know absolutely nothing about building one, those who know everything, and everyone in between. Give it a look.



Congrats on the new build. Your old PC still has plenty of potential, I hope it's going to a good home.

It holds remarkedly well for such an old thing. I think I bought that thing in 2009 or 2010. HD5850 was such a great performance/price card, and it's still a stronger card than the one in the ps4 to this day (2.something TFLOPs if I'm not mistaken). I can't run any modern AAA games today though because 1gb of VRAM just doesn't cut it anymore so that's why I'm upgrading, but you're right that old grandma can still churn it out. I play Overwatch (all on low) at 1920x1080 at 80fps, 115fps if I bring the resolution down.

 

[GamerMax73]

The point is that when someone enters the picture with Pc in mind, it can be a great experience if they go about it the right way. That Goes for anything I say, if I wanted to get into working on muscle cars I'm sure there's simply a "way" to go about it.

And I think this is a good point PC gamers tend to ignore when extolling the virtues of the platform.

"It's as easy as console", "full backwards compatibility", "games are cheaper", "90s Problems"

It can be all these things, but sometimes it isn't.

It seems to me the prevailing wisdom is to attack the user when problems occur. .

"You bought a shitty PC", "that's some weird arse random old game that has problems" (just so happened to be one I wanted to play).

Now here you've given us a more truthful response, respect. PC gaming might give me what I want but...I've got to do the right research and spend a little more money. It's not as simple as walking into $random-retailer and buying a $400 machine off the shelf.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Entertaining for sure. Though I think some of the petty bickering is just silly.

Personally, I'm a transitioning PC gamer. I'm approaching 30, time is becoming more scarce as money is becoming more abundant. I don't get rid of my games/consoles, and I realized that if I keep going I'm just going to end up hoarding generations and generations of games while not even being able to keep up. I just got a PS4 and plan on getting a Wii U on the Switch release.

My concern has become backward compatibility, options, longevity, and space. I don't want to keep collecting discs and hardware. My favorite games of all time are all console exclusives, but that's just something I'll have to sacrifice for the sake of my new priorities.

I was reluctant to make the switch for all the reasons listed: ease of use, plug-and-play, no compatibility/driver issues, etc. And all of those reasons are still valid. Just for me personally, the advantages of PC are now more relevant to me at my stage in life.

It all depends on the person.

You could just stop hoarding the consoles and start buying digital. Do what works for you I guess. As a 30 year old myself with little time, I don't get what would push me toward a PC specifically. If anything, my wife and son hated back when I gamed primarily on PC as I didn't have it set up in the living room at the time and i was typically wearing a headset and off on my own.

 

[2blackcats]

I don't think people who won't spend money on a PC realize how cheap games are on it. The amount you spend on a console will catch up to how much you paid for the PC.

I don't think this point is as valid as it used to be if you're buying modern biggish budget games.

The amount of free content on PC is massive though. So you could easily spend very little if you wanted to.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

And I think this is a good point PC gamers tend to ignore when extolling the virtues of the platform.

"It's as easy as console", "full backwards compatibility", "games are cheaper", "90s Problems"

It can be all these things, but sometimes it isn't.

It seems to me the prevailing wisdom is to attack the user when problems occur. .

"You bought a shitty PC", "that's some weird arse random old game that has problems" (just so happened to be one I wanted to play).

New here you've given us a more truthful response, respect. PC gaming might give me what I want but...I've got to do the right research and spend a little more money. It's not as simple as walking into $random-retailer and buying a $400 machine off the shelf.

Me saying that is not meant to offend, it's just me being casual.. Id say it to a buddy like hey man you can't be trying to play those big games on that shitty laptop and he'd laugh knowing it's not like I'm tryin to insult his life or world, it's just casual talk that probably looks worse on screen.

My point is yes like anything it requires a little research, even consoles now require research if someone isn't sure what a pro does compared to the original model, or what's an Xbox one and what's an Xbox One S... It all requires a touch of research for people simply inquiring to know.

Pc is no different, it requires a little research or questioning, but once someone sees which type of machine you want its all Gravy from there.

But the actual conversion is about having a machine sitting there ready to game, and the ease of use to game on it.

 

[RedSwirl]

TLDR; lot's of people just don't care about the graphics/visual art part of gaming as a hobby and just enjoy the gameplay, shooting fools online with friends etc. and basically just begrudgingly buy a new console every 5-7 years (and usually not at/near launch) to be able to keep playing CoD, Madden, Fifa etc. with their buddies who upgraded.

I think we should maybe talk a little more about this. Even though my 1070 is pretty good, graphics aren't even the main reason I go primarily PC, and I think this is the case for a huge part of the PC audience, maybe even the majority of PC gamers.

I think the "max graphics at 60fps" hype is overblown in terms of how important it is for PC gaming. Maybe PC gamers do talk about it a bit too much, or maybe it's a holdover from when PC did get a lot of exclusives with top-of-the-line graphics consoles couldn't touch. I guess I could more conveniently play games like Hyper Light Drifter, Oxenfree, and REmake on my PS4 but I instead chose to buy and install them on my weaker laptop (960m). For me it's just that freedom to install them on that laptop or a desktop, or the freedom to play them with my DualShock 4 or an Xbox pad. The copy of HLD I have is DRM-free which means I "own" it as much as you can possibly own any digital game. I spend a ton of time playing PC games that may or may not be exclusive, but definitely don't have graphics that are impossible on consoles. The very most popular PC games don't have high-end graphics at all. A ton of PC gamers probably just download LoL/DOTA/CS:GO to play with their buddies.

I'm not totally discounting this argument for sticking with consoles. Cost-wise consoles are still the cheaper way to get AAA graphics. I'm just saying that most of PC gaming's advantages hold if you're just talking about low-end gaming. In fact the barrier to entry for low-end games is arguably lower on PC since so many of those games will run on the crappy laptop you probably already own. Again, it's fine if you just don't like dealing with Windows or you don't like playing games on PCs period. I'm just saying top-of-the-line graphics tend to get oversold as the be-all-end-all of PC gaming.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Me saying that is not meant to offend, it's just me being casual.. Id say it to a buddy like hey man you can't be trying to play those big games on that shitty laptop and he'd laugh knowing it's not like I'm tryin to insult his life or world, it's just casual talk that probably looks worse on screen.

My point is yes like anything it requires a little research, even consoles now require research if someone isn't sure what a pro does compared to the original model, or what's an Xbox one and what's an Xbox One S... It all requires a touch of research for people simply inquiring to know.

Pc is no different, it requires a little research or questioning, but once someone sees which type of machine you want its all Gravy from there.

But the actual conversion is about having a machine sitting there ready to game, and the ease of use to game on it.

Sorry but the problem here is you're equating the level of research to be equal or at least similar when the reality is you need to do a lot more research for a gaming PC than you do a console.

 

[MorshuTheTrader]

It's just a personal choice really. I can't stop some part of my brain from forcing me to fiddle with all the PC settings so I always have the perfect visuals/performance balance. Consoles just remove this option entirely and I just get to the game and enjoy it.

I know it's a dumb reason, but I'm a programmer by trade and messing with all those options is just in my nature lol. I've also spent way too much time messing with my TV settings trying to get the best picture, but that's another story.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

I think it's a bit naive to believe people don't want awesome lookin games and smooth games with new large scale type games. I think those statements where someone says they don't care much about graphics is mainly used to make their point, because if they say Yea I love and want better looking games they associate that with a negative as that's how "PC gamers" are.

It all depends on the game, do I need flashy graphics for Pillars of eternity 2, Or the next Etrian Odyssey? Not at all... Because those aren't the type that need graphics.

But come on, Mass effect, tomb raider, witcher etc... These games are meant to be amazing looking and continually look better and better, there isn't nobody saying "Meh, don't care that much"

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Sorry but the problem here is you're equating the level of research to be equal or at least similar when the reality is you need to do a lot more research for a gaming PC than you do a console.

Again the conversation isn't about the research, yes it requires a little more but it's simply clicking and reading, we're not talking climbing mountains.

I'm not equating them to be equal, I'm simply saying anything in life that you want to get involved in needs research.

I mean that's like saying someone should be able to walk into a gym and in 6 months turn into arnold just by picking up weights. It requires research and some investment into understanding the hows and the why's, this all goes without saying.

I'm solely talking about gaming on a PC from clicking a game to grabbing a controller and sitting on a couch is as simple as it is for a console

 

[GamerMax73]

Me saying that is not meant to offend, it's just me being casual..

None taken, I totally get that.

But the actual conversion is about having a machine sitting there ready to game, and the ease of use to game on it.

The problem I have, and this isn't directed at you, is the discussion often times ignores the fact that a certain amount of set up is required to get to that point. And what some may view as benefits of doing this, of going this route, others couldn't care less about - for them better graphics or backwards compatibility or modding - are just not strong enough reasons to go through that extra effort (however easy) that's required.

I've no doubts over my abilities to build and set up a gaming PC to do exactly what we want and be as easy to use as a console. Mostly I have a problem with the initial outlay and extra effort.

Really though, I just follow the games. If you really want to sell me PC gaming, sell me on the games I can't get were I am. (I'll exclude strategy games here which are a special case, thus some gaming on the laptop).

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

None taken, I totally get that.



The problem I have, and this isn't directed at you, is the discussion often times ignores the fact that a certain amount of set up is required to get to that point. And what some may view as benefits of doing this, of going this route, others couldn't care less about - for them better graphics or backwards compatibility or modding - I just not strong enough reasons to go through that extra effort (however easy) that's required.

I've no doubts over my abilities to build and set up a gaming PC to do exactly what we want and be as easy to use as a console. Mostly I have a problem with the initial outlay and extra effort.

Really though, I just follow the games. If you really want to sell me PC gaming, sell me on the games I can't get were I am. (I'll exclude strategy games here which are a special case, thus some gaming on the laptop).

But that's the thing I'm not trying to sell it to anyone, what my pov is really is seeing what holds a person back and if I have an answer to it. So if someone says I don't Pc game because I hate keyboard, my reply is you can plug a controller in and game like normal. Or if someone says I don't want to mess with settings, I can say most games no auto tune it, any further tweaking is optional. See what I mean?

I get if someone doesn't want to build a Pc, that's totally fine.

But I still say alot I think underestimate themselves snd don't realize how truly easy it is once you understand the basics, building a Pc seems so daunting but is basically like putting together a puzzle.