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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again
- Thread starter shira
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ChoklitReign
Member
Finally saw it in theaters. Hard to say in words whether I enjoyed it, but it felt like a heavy acid trip. Extremely mindblowing, cerebral, and atmospheric. I was honestly in shock that the story loop and love theme shared so much in common with Interstellar, yet it's hip for critics (and most of GAF, it looks like) to like this more when they do the same thing? I don't understand how you can call Interstellar pretentious and this isn't. I don't care whether Jon Nolan was inspired by the short story, or whether their ideas fed off each other or whether it was just a coincidence, but I enjoyed them both and see them as companions. In simple terms, Interstellar is more "pleasurable" to watch, but Arrival is more mental and philosophical, and it's an excellent movie about linguistics and geopolitics. I'm thankful that for the past few years we have gotten equally strong sci-fi movies that offer different experiences, and I don't want to anger anybody or waste time by ranking them.
SolidusDave
Member
Was ok.
I did not enjoy the setup that thinking in a non-linear language suddenly makes you a five dimensional being. I know, I know. Suspension of disbelieve but it's still not how things work. On the other hand I can see why such a twist would make the plot more special than aliens testing humans or making them fight each other or whatever.
Still, that "killed" the movie for me.
Edit: Why did they even have trouble communicating when the Aliens already know all the future interactions. And yet still they tell all countries about some weapon just so the movie can have drama. Seems like they are not that desperate to get humanity's help with such a risky/stupid plan.
Also, their representation of Louise experiencing non-linear time was often not on point. Sometimes it looks like remembering but often enough (especially the General scene) they present it more like her mind jumping through time.
Now cue the sequel - 3000 years later humans and aliens joining forces in an awesome all-out space battle against a common enemy
I did not enjoy the setup that thinking in a non-linear language suddenly makes you a five dimensional being. I know, I know. Suspension of disbelieve but it's still not how things work. On the other hand I can see why such a twist would make the plot more special than aliens testing humans or making them fight each other or whatever.
Still, that "killed" the movie for me.
Edit: Why did they even have trouble communicating when the Aliens already know all the future interactions. And yet still they tell all countries about some weapon just so the movie can have drama. Seems like they are not that desperate to get humanity's help with such a risky/stupid plan.
Also, their representation of Louise experiencing non-linear time was often not on point. Sometimes it looks like remembering but often enough (especially the General scene) they present it more like her mind jumping through time.
Now cue the sequel - 3000 years later humans and aliens joining forces in an awesome all-out space battle against a common enemy
afternoon delight
Member
Interstellar's quality dies by a thousand cuts and its half stops and starts, its penultimate climax are all so lackluster that it's not hard for a more grounded story attempting a less 'mythic' message to score better.
The Jackdog
Member
the only thing that killed me is that i went in expecting a "smart" movie, one without a lot of plot holes at least, or enough ambiguity to excuse them.
i even really liked the "twist" of the aliens knowing the future.
it just falls apart for me when i think "ok they can see the future they know they need our help, but they couldnt of learned 26 letters to make this shit easier?"
i even really liked the "twist" of the aliens knowing the future.
it just falls apart for me when i think "ok they can see the future they know they need our help, but they couldnt of learned 26 letters to make this shit easier?"
The problem is that this is an adaptation of a philosophical story with zero tension or suspense, but adapted into a scifi thriller that needs causality to engage the audience. By giving the aliens a motive and there being a grand plan for everything, it undermines the message of all time being a fixed template from the alien perspective.
In the original story is there is no potential war, there is no "offer weapon", there is no "we need humanity's help 3000 years from now". Instead it was about a visitation where they came, they observed us, no one could really understand why they came, and then they left. The only point of the story being that such events change those who are involved, and learning just a little of their language changes the narrative allowing her to perceive her life as a canvas rather than as a linear event. Her life perspective changes and the vignettes of her daughter's life peppered throughout the narrative as used as a way of showing her embracing things as they will be without questioning or wondering.
They changed so much for the film, and in the process sort of lost the soul of the story and gained something else. Something more exciting perhaps but also more questionable and filled with the typical holes in bootstrap paradox stories.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
I love this post 👌
SolidusDave
Member
Now THAT sounds like a cool movie, where can I watch it?
edit: but seriously, I didn't even know this is a book adaption but those changes are exactly what makes the story in the movie fall flat for me. Now it's even more baffling to me that the movie is so highly regarded.
I get your point, but I think the key idea is that they needed to
change how humans think and understand time, in order for them to later help the aliens
SolidusDave
Member
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Direction was good along with the eerie audio design.
I felt that it started to flounder towardd the half way point with how the film cynically portrayed how the worlds scientific community/leaders would react.
That side of the movie, felt mostly completely irrelevant and more like as I said, a writers cynical impression of the world that isn't really grounded in reality. But merely there to serve as filler, ultimately detracting from the experience.
I felt that it started to flounder towardd the half way point with how the film cynically portrayed how the worlds scientific community/leaders would react.
That side of the movie, felt mostly completely irrelevant and more like as I said, a writers cynical impression of the world that isn't really grounded in reality. But merely there to serve as filler, ultimately detracting from the experience.
shira
Member
1. She learned it best so I don't think anyone else was on the "future is present" time manipulator tier
2. The movie wasn't about future alien tech Earth it was whether she would have the child
First, as a pure sci-fi aficionado, i think the point of the film wasn't the sci-fi, but rather the emotional impact of making choices which will lead to time-limited happiness, and living with them.
In short, finding happiness before death.
It's a very poignant film and the usual overanalysis doesn't really matter that much.
On a second note, i throughly enjoyed a proper female protagonist, with competency but not a mary sue syndrome, attractive but not stripperrific, and not in need of rescuing every five seconds. Dr. Banks is a fantastic character, start to finish, and Adams put in an amazing performance.
That said, here's the overanalysis:
I think a lot of people are having issue with the fact that "Knows the future" doesn't mean "Precisely knows the entirety of the future" - it's presented as some visions and dreams, not perfect memory, and surely not perfect knowledge.
Like most time-travel stuff, the answer is generally "The aliens did it".
The general "memory" isn't a memory. It's a alien-induced dream, like most others - Whatever it is, if "the" future (Closed timelike curves \ 2D time) or "one of many" future (Timeline hopping) doesn't really matter that much.
The general scene is extremely unbelievable, and i don't think it's meant to be taken at face value.
Either the vision is fake (Planted knowledge), or the aliens coerced \ induced the general in doing that.
Fridge brilliance bits:
- They arrive through FTL. Why did the physicist point it out? Because that means causality can be broken!
- The alien writing is a flat circle. I don't think i need to say more.
- The alien writing is "Outside time": The entire phrase has to be completed at once, like a causal loop.
- If aliens can remember the future, why do they need to learn? Because remembering something doesn't mean you understand it, if you lack the tools to do that. Memory isn't perfect, and fragments of it certainly do not form the entirety of knowledge.
- The moment where the aliens learn the human language cannot be erased from time, for that it's either needed (2D time \ multiple timeline) or always been and will always be (flat time \ noriokov)
- "But it was you" As somebody with extensive experience with physicist jokes and physicist romanticism, i can tell you this is the most realistic part of the film.
As a further note, we're dealing with an usual bootstrap paradox here, and i want to make a note for Interstellar: while the authors meant for it to "Simply exist" - based on the Noriokov self-consistency principle, which actually allows for causality breaks if they're stable, based on some exact-point solutions of the general relativity equations.
But it actually made more sense in a different way: The aliens perceive more dimensions to time than just our one, and treat the 'first' dimension as we treat a dimension of space - something which can be modified, filled, moved within, even bended.
In any case, building a complete framework where time travel preserves causality and 'free will' is not a task for a 2-hour, general public work, and it's okay to leave gaps that require some asterisks along the way.
It simply requires a will to go along with the author, rather than play a vindictive "Gotcha" game, as those "Big Reveal" time travel works tend to trigger.
In short, finding happiness before death.
It's a very poignant film and the usual overanalysis doesn't really matter that much.
On a second note, i throughly enjoyed a proper female protagonist, with competency but not a mary sue syndrome, attractive but not stripperrific, and not in need of rescuing every five seconds. Dr. Banks is a fantastic character, start to finish, and Adams put in an amazing performance.
That said, here's the overanalysis:
I think a lot of people are having issue with the fact that "Knows the future" doesn't mean "Precisely knows the entirety of the future" - it's presented as some visions and dreams, not perfect memory, and surely not perfect knowledge.
Like most time-travel stuff, the answer is generally "The aliens did it".
The general "memory" isn't a memory. It's a alien-induced dream, like most others - Whatever it is, if "the" future (Closed timelike curves \ 2D time) or "one of many" future (Timeline hopping) doesn't really matter that much.
The general scene is extremely unbelievable, and i don't think it's meant to be taken at face value.
Either the vision is fake (Planted knowledge), or the aliens coerced \ induced the general in doing that.
Fridge brilliance bits:
- They arrive through FTL. Why did the physicist point it out? Because that means causality can be broken!
- The alien writing is a flat circle. I don't think i need to say more.
It's a circle, but look at it from any other direction and it's a line
- If aliens can remember the future, why do they need to learn? Because remembering something doesn't mean you understand it, if you lack the tools to do that. Memory isn't perfect, and fragments of it certainly do not form the entirety of knowledge.
- The moment where the aliens learn the human language cannot be erased from time, for that it's either needed (2D time \ multiple timeline) or always been and will always be (flat time \ noriokov)
- "But it was you" As somebody with extensive experience with physicist jokes and physicist romanticism, i can tell you this is the most realistic part of the film.
As a further note, we're dealing with an usual bootstrap paradox here, and i want to make a note for Interstellar: while the authors meant for it to "Simply exist" - based on the Noriokov self-consistency principle, which actually allows for causality breaks if they're stable, based on some exact-point solutions of the general relativity equations.
But it actually made more sense in a different way: The aliens perceive more dimensions to time than just our one, and treat the 'first' dimension as we treat a dimension of space - something which can be modified, filled, moved within, even bended.
In any case, building a complete framework where time travel preserves causality and 'free will' is not a task for a 2-hour, general public work, and it's okay to leave gaps that require some asterisks along the way.
It simply requires a will to go along with the author, rather than play a vindictive "Gotcha" game, as those "Big Reveal" time travel works tend to trigger.
If you want to keep loving the movie as much as you do after the first viewing, don't read the story it's based on. Lol.
Same thought came to mind. What would Trump do?
Glass Rebel
Member
It's funny you mention that because I remember Villeneuve saying in an interview that they weren't sure how far they could push that aspect but the decision was made during the time Brexit was accepted so they went with it.
Anton Sugar
Member
The Chinese general's actions would probably mirror Trump's except it would all get fucked up because he'd hit on Louise before she got a chance to tell him why Melania committed suicide.
I really didn't see anything cynical? China went rogue for an actual understandable reason, the aliens told everyone they had a "weapon".
Liked the movie, but felt like it was rushing by the end of it.
I have a question about a plot point.
What was the deal with finding out that the dying eptapod's final message was the twelth part of a complete code to "unlock" the language and then not pursue that plot point?
Also, my interpretation of how the language works is that the moment she can think with that system she experiences every instant of her life, be past, present or future, at the same time, till she can biologically do so.
I have a question about a plot point.
What was the deal with finding out that the dying eptapod's final message was the twelth part of a complete code to "unlock" the language and then not pursue that plot point?
Also, my interpretation of how the language works is that the moment she can think with that system she experiences every instant of her life, be past, present or future, at the same time, till she can biologically do so.
Forgot to post impressions after i saw it a while ago: Interesting movie with strong audio. Liked it but i went in with no expectations and no trailer. Only saw gaffers raving about it.
Liked the concept but instantly knew that the discussion about the movie would be about future/past "what if she/why couldn't they..." etc. Same was with Looper although they had an extra line in the movie to not to think about it to much. Time is always problematic in these movies/stories (Primer gave me headaches reading the Internet explanations).
Little nitpick: I really don't know if the Ian voice over part which showed how they learned fast was necessary. At least with the voice over. Maybe showing him writing a report/log with the voice over would have felt more "natural". Like it was, it felt a bit out of place.
Need a definitely a rewatch.
Liked the concept but instantly knew that the discussion about the movie would be about future/past "what if she/why couldn't they..." etc. Same was with Looper although they had an extra line in the movie to not to think about it to much. Time is always problematic in these movies/stories (Primer gave me headaches reading the Internet explanations).
Little nitpick: I really don't know if the Ian voice over part which showed how they learned fast was necessary. At least with the voice over. Maybe showing him writing a report/log with the voice over would have felt more "natural". Like it was, it felt a bit out of place.
Need a definitely a rewatch.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Was the scene with the alien in her bunk a reference to the infamous scene from Enemy?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
I just dont think certain long standing allies would hang up on each other based on what some crazy Chinese general is chopsing on about.
Scientific community is just that, a collaboration of minds, the more minds on the problem together the greater the success so it isn't logically sound for say Britain to hang up on USA or Australia etc.
The brexit/trump tie in that the other guy mentioned makes sense but again still seems unnecessarily cynical in terms of the scale of whats happening.
The scientific community didn't make that call though, neither did they hold any power. It was clear at least from our U.S. perspective that the military and government were calling the shots despite being pretty incompetent at handling the situation. They were paranoid and on-edge, making moves based on politics rather than 'logic'.
Some may choose to interpret that way but I just see it as the director reusing a provocative shot.
Finally watched it an I really liked it. I did watch the Google Play Store version though and apparently they forgot to include the subtitles for that scene where Amy's in the spaceship on her own. So I saw people here talking about 3000 years and I was like "Wait, what 3000 years?". I also totally missed that Abbott died.
Great job there, subtitlers.
Great job there, subtitlers.
Moff
Member
loved every second of it, hit all the right notes for me
- aliens
- language stuff
- timetravel stuff
- mindblowing twist
what really got me was the ending, though, that the flashbacks were flashforwards, that she will keep her daughter despite knowing that she'll die very young. that was so powerful, so beautiful. that was, what this movie was about for me, and not that sidestory about saving mankind or helping some alien race.
the first few minutes were a real downer and really set the mood for the movie, and I was really afraid the movie would end up with the aliens showing up as her dead daughter or some crap like that, I think that's what contact did, but Arrival plays with these expections and twists them masterfully. really hit me.
I absolutely loved it and I think it was the best scifi in years, a lot better than Interstellar, which had a similar ending but unlike Arrival didn't ask any interesting questions or decisions.
that the rest of the movie was an interesting and smart alien puzzle movie with audiovisuals on villeneuve level didn't hurt either, of course
- aliens
- language stuff
- timetravel stuff
- mindblowing twist
what really got me was the ending, though, that the flashbacks were flashforwards, that she will keep her daughter despite knowing that she'll die very young. that was so powerful, so beautiful. that was, what this movie was about for me, and not that sidestory about saving mankind or helping some alien race.
the first few minutes were a real downer and really set the mood for the movie, and I was really afraid the movie would end up with the aliens showing up as her dead daughter or some crap like that, I think that's what contact did, but Arrival plays with these expections and twists them masterfully. really hit me.
I absolutely loved it and I think it was the best scifi in years, a lot better than Interstellar, which had a similar ending but unlike Arrival didn't ask any interesting questions or decisions.
that the rest of the movie was an interesting and smart alien puzzle movie with audiovisuals on villeneuve level didn't hurt either, of course
baberunisei
Member
I can't believe that happened. You should ask for a refund
Insane Metal
Member
Agreed, man!
Honestly it wasn't that bad, I'm pretty good at connecting the dots, so I got most of what was happening. I kind of preferred not knowing whether the aliens were there for anything specific or if they just randomly decided to uplift the human race.
It wasn't as near bad as that time I tried to watch Breaking Bad without subtitles, only to find out that the Spanish scenes also weren't subtitled.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Just saw it, and while I kinda figured out the non-linear stuff near halfway through, the emotional impact of seeing that the "flashbacks" were actually "flashforwards" smacked me like a fucking ton of bricks.
I mean, the opening scene already made me want to lay down and cry, then seeing that it's actually the future and she's going to live with and accept the fate of her daughter dying and her husband leaving her, pretty much put me over the edge.
Can't tell if it's a tragic ending or a more bitter sweet one of accepting fate and embracing life as we can, but I came in expecting a science-fiction movie and came out wanting to ball my eyes out.
I mean, the opening scene already made me want to lay down and cry, then seeing that it's actually the future and she's going to live with and accept the fate of her daughter dying and her husband leaving her, pretty much put me over the edge.
Can't tell if it's a tragic ending or a more bitter sweet one of accepting fate and embracing life as we can, but I came in expecting a science-fiction movie and came out wanting to ball my eyes out.
ladyluthien
Member
I was going to write out a post, but this is exactly how I felt. I usually get the twist pretty early on but not with this movie.
I really enjoyed it but I don't know if I can watch it again. I cried like a baby at the end.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Just watched this without really knowing what to expect going in, just saw highly rated sci-fi movie and thought sure. Man, I hate to say this but I think it's possibly the most bored I've been watching a film in years. Plot holes and awful attempts at explanations smack you in the face pretty early on and then they spend the rest of the time trying to humanize the story when there's this big ass space ship and aliens right in our face. You give me big alien space ship and I couldn't care less about her stupid daughter, I wanna know about the aliens damnit!
I dunno, I must just have awful taste in movies because whenever I choose to watch sci-fi with a high rating it's always the same damn thing. Interesting concept butchered in an attempt to make it all about the rather uninteresting humans.
I dunno, I must just have awful taste in movies because whenever I choose to watch sci-fi with a high rating it's always the same damn thing. Interesting concept butchered in an attempt to make it all about the rather uninteresting humans.
No lies detected here.
Glass Rebel
Member
You should watch Mars Attacks. You might like it.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
I just didn't really appreciate the bait and switch. The promo art seems to be selling something completely different to what I just watched since I know practically nothing more about those aliens than I did going in and it seemed less and less interested giving any details as the movie went on.
I'm not saying I don't like deeper thought in my movies, but it shouldn't shove everything else to the wayside IMO. I honestly couldn't tell you how they were supposedly helping humanity or what they're coming for help with.
Link1110
Member
Really cool movie, and I thought I knew the spoiler going in cause they called it 降臨 here in China, which I've only seen for the arrival of a deity (play Tales of Destiny 2 or Tales of Berseria for examples) so I thought the aliens were gods or something. I didn't expect the Sapir whorf hypothesis used in a really intelligent way like that. Amazing movie, and really sad ending that she went through with having the baby knowing from the beginning that the baby would die and her husband would leave.
And Abbott is death process sounded like Asian grammar to me, was surprised on a pleasant way that even in that scene they were having little linguistic issues.
And Abbott is death process sounded like Asian grammar to me, was surprised on a pleasant way that even in that scene they were having little linguistic issues.
That's not how you use that phrase, lol.
Uh, how?
The power to see the future isn't enough? Plus the tech dump divided in 12 parts.
I just finished watching it. Holy... I don't think I've had such strong feeling watching a movie in a really long time.
What a fantastic film. The music during the finale was perfect. <3
You could see the twist coming but the revelation did not take away the impact of it at all. So wonderfully done. I didn't cry during the revelation at the end but man I was basically bawling on the inside. Like I could feel myself being overwhelmed like Amy Adams character was.
Denis Villeneuve is incredible. He hit it out of the park again with Arrival after Sicario which is one of my favorite movies in 2015. Its amazing how he can craft such a thrilling action movie then a thought provoking sci-fi like this.
Absolute love the cast, everyone was perfect. Amy Adams and Jeremy Renner really sold the connection. I can't wait for his next movie.
I absolutely agree with Moff above ^ This is definitely the one of the best if not the best sci-fi film I've seen in years. I didn't expect it to be this good but wow. I definitely think you appreciate this film more after you finished watching and have time to think about it.
What a fantastic film. The music during the finale was perfect. <3
You could see the twist coming but the revelation did not take away the impact of it at all. So wonderfully done. I didn't cry during the revelation at the end but man I was basically bawling on the inside. Like I could feel myself being overwhelmed like Amy Adams character was.
Denis Villeneuve is incredible. He hit it out of the park again with Arrival after Sicario which is one of my favorite movies in 2015. Its amazing how he can craft such a thrilling action movie then a thought provoking sci-fi like this.
Absolute love the cast, everyone was perfect. Amy Adams and Jeremy Renner really sold the connection. I can't wait for his next movie.
I absolutely agree with Moff above ^ This is definitely the one of the best if not the best sci-fi film I've seen in years. I didn't expect it to be this good but wow. I definitely think you appreciate this film more after you finished watching and have time to think about it.
Finally saw it. I really enjoyed some of the performances, and it looked beautiful. It was weaker than the story, because they wedged in things to make the folks that need a reason happy. I preferred the original Chiang story, in that there's never an explanation for why the aliens came or left, other than they came because they saw that they would.
At first I was vexed that they'd put the death of her daughter do far up front, but given the other changes they made, it makes good sense.
At first I was vexed that they'd put the death of her daughter do far up front, but given the other changes they made, it makes good sense.
Only 8 months away.
Oh good lord hes doing Blade Runner?? *faint*
Is Marvel going to scoop this guy up? If Marvel Studios let's this man do his thing. I'd like to see a true sequel to the Winter Soldier with his style. (Not that Civil War was bad, I just want another Cap thriller)
UberTag
Member
Watch it a second time and you really start to appreciate it when you can pinpoint the nuance of Amy's performance with the knowledge and informed perspective of knowing what twists/reveals lie ahead.
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