OH I frieken hope not.
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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again
- Thread starter shira
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OH I frieken hope not.
Great movie. The dying words to the chinese general was really corny though. It was almost comedic even.
'I called you?? Wow so what was your number?? Whats that I changed your life with what I said? So what exactly was it I told you?'
I guess that part was added in to get extra points with the chinese market.
'I called you?? Wow so what was your number?? Whats that I changed your life with what I said? So what exactly was it I told you?'
I guess that part was added in to get extra points with the chinese market.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What plot hole?
I liked Arrival a lot, but it had its flaws for me. I'm more curious as to what other supposedly "high;y-rated" sci-fi movies also fit into his category of "boring".
Let's me dream damnit! It's not like he'll be lock into a contract with Marvel.
I'd love to see a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie from him. Plus that would reunite him with Renner.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Did you think the movie had plot holes too?
He said he's willing to do Blade Runner because there were producers who he worked with on Prisoners. He got to do Arrival because Paramount loved Incendies and were mad they lost out on Sicario. He's doing Dune because it's his dream project. He has other projects lined up too. Like an adaptation of The Son which will reunite him with Jake Gyllenhaal again. Gyllenhaal's company is producing that.
Maybe if Renner produces a Hawkeye film and begs him he'll be willing in 2022 or whatever lol. Otherwise, not a chance.
Absolutely fucking loved this movie. Did not expect the twist at all which is nice when nowadays movies overall reuse and borrow twists, or make them incredibly predictable and condescending to the viewer. I cried a little bit at the end, too 
. There should be a poll on whether or not we would do the same and a parent a child we knew would be terminally ill, personally I don't think I could. The stupidity of the human race frustrated me though lol. I mean, if these aliens wanted to kill everything they could have the minute they landed. But no, they allowed humans to come into their ship and have conversations with them for a month and people still decided to attempt to destroy them. What the fuck? Fuck people.
. There should be a poll on whether or not we would do the same and a parent a child we knew would be terminally ill, personally I don't think I could. The stupidity of the human race frustrated me though lol. I mean, if these aliens wanted to kill everything they could have the minute they landed. But no, they allowed humans to come into their ship and have conversations with them for a month and people still decided to attempt to destroy them. What the fuck? Fuck people.SolidusDave
Member
Everything the aliens tell them about a weapon etc is just to create conflict for no reason that they would be well aware off in advance. Thanks to their magic language. Or that the whole setup is illogical if their goal is to get humans to help them later on. They can already understand humans from the start but don't tell them clearly what they want for no good reason.
But it was mentioned in this thread that those parts were only added in the movie so that let's me appreciate the original plot more.
Marvel isn't ever going to work with a director with his own specific vision/style again after the Edgar Wright fiasco. And that's fine.
Not true. Shane Black, James Gunn, Taika Waititi. They still work with interesting people. Collaboration depends on trust and how the partnership works out. No general rule.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I saw you guys jizzing over this movie and i decided to see it. Some douche pulled the fire alarm right in the beginning. So, as the were leaving the school and i thought it was, like 4D. Like, 'man, this is so realistic.'
Almost left (got out of the theater) because 40% of me was worried it was gonna be an Aurora. When i got out of the theater, i intended to just go home but was caught off guard by the lack of running and screams. So i walked back in, sat back down when the manager said it was just some punk kid pulling the fire alarm. Luckily they restarted it.
Thoroughly enjoyed it and it took forever to put it together. 'Oh, they say she can see the future... Interesting'.
I'm always like that. Then they put a little featurette at the end explaining everything and it hit me.
Second time i ever empathized with rat face: i would have left you too. How could you? I enjoyed the setup and didn't even trip over the time line plot holes.
Almost left (got out of the theater) because 40% of me was worried it was gonna be an Aurora. When i got out of the theater, i intended to just go home but was caught off guard by the lack of running and screams. So i walked back in, sat back down when the manager said it was just some punk kid pulling the fire alarm. Luckily they restarted it.
Thoroughly enjoyed it and it took forever to put it together. 'Oh, they say she can see the future... Interesting'.
I'm always like that. Then they put a little featurette at the end explaining everything and it hit me.
Second time i ever empathized with rat face: i would have left you too. How could you? I enjoyed the setup and didn't even trip over the time line plot holes.
Shadowhelper
Banned
It's one of my favorites of the year for sure, although, I did like the emotional pay off in Contact better. But the Arrival does feel like a much more complete and closed story, emotionally and narratively, which I really appreciate; I think that can be very satisfying and quite rarely done well.
Shadowhelper
Banned
Shane Black was kinda in directors jail though. And James Gunn a bit of a nobody. Don't think Waititi has ever done anything like this. My point is, they are all directors that could be controlled at those points in time, and would be willing to relinquish creative control to a team of producers, executives, and 2nd unit directors.
Dennis is in a very different spot, and I don't think Marvel would be rushing to get him. His tone is completely wrong from what Marvel is looking for. Marvel handles all the technical stuff and just likes directors who can bring some humor and work well with actors.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
No good reason? One of the reasons was to force humans to work together.
Wasn't that just a mistranslation? Louise mentions it, when everyone freaks out she reminds them that "weapon" can mean "tool" as well
She also previously mentioned when they got the audio from the chinese guy that she was afraid they were using mahjong pieces because the communication between them would end up in a "win/lose" "war-like" kind of communication, since they were using a game. The message the chinese translated was slightly different from the ones americans did from what I remember.
The movie certainly deserves a rewatch, many plot points revolve around languages and how communication works so how things are said is very important.
SolidusDave
Member
I meant that they have to know that the humans would misunderstood their word as weapon, that people freak out and try to attack them etc.
Granted their abilities to see the future seem to be limited as they didn't really do much about the bomb (which as far I understood it, killed one of the aliens), but that seems like a pretty straightforward thing to plan for when the whole planet is turning on them in some alternate reality (well again, to be fair, we haven't seen how it would look like for her to "remember" a future that she wants to change - like the aliens did, hence coming to Earth).
Oh and Earth hardly worked together in that movie and actually the scientific interaction is greater in real life than in scenario that is controlled by the military (and at the end of the movie no one works together with anyone, she had to use future knowledge to convince the general).
As described above, the way the movie presents the plot is that the aliens should be aware of the outcome that is a mistranslation. Hence making sure they get that one word right.
I'm more talking about the general premise though. With the movie adding the factoid that the aliens want to evolve humans so that they can help them in 3000 years, you would think that they could do much, much better at explaining the situation to them.
Like, thanks to how their mind works they should have already lived through all that language learning and could literally spraypaint into the air in English "we come in peace. But we need help in the future. If you learn our language, you will be experiencing time differently and effectively can predict the future (even though you are still a 3dimensional beings and thus live only in your present - sorry we don't know how this really works ourselves that's why we get blasted by bombs we try to point at for 10 minutes before they go off". Well maybe not the last part but you get the point
If the story regarding the aliens was more ambiguous, I would have enjoyed the movie much more. The movie isn't even about them really anyway. Even them just visiting to talk with other species (with or without knowing that learning their language would give humans their abilities) would make more sense.
Learning that the original story did not contain the aspects above emboldens me to think that the original author would also agree that this just renders the movie open for plotholes etc.
The aliens aren't being obtuse.
The aliens are also internally using a very high level of technology. Not only can they cross stellar distances - they can communicate with "flat" four dimensional beings that experience time sequentially. They're not being vague- they're dealing with a highly technical dimensional and chronological problem (from their perspective) and threading a needle culturally too.
We may be almost invisible to them. Imagine us trying to do the reverse?
The aliens are also internally using a very high level of technology. Not only can they cross stellar distances - they can communicate with "flat" four dimensional beings that experience time sequentially. They're not being vague- they're dealing with a highly technical dimensional and chronological problem (from their perspective) and threading a needle culturally too.
We may be almost invisible to them. Imagine us trying to do the reverse?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
They know what's going to happen. They know all the actions that take place that result in the future they remember. Which is why everything plays out just according to keikaku. Those are the events that happen because they always happen that way. It sounds like a cop out, but it's the natural explanation for this kind of time-y paradox-y movie.
Free will is (kind of) out the window, and a more deterministic way of viewing the universe takes place.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Clarify please?
They did work together. At the end of the movie, they all agree to share their data to complete the puzzle, which leads to the global unification 18 months later that Louise remembers from the future.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The thing is that aliens do not predict or see the future, they experience time in a circular manner, this might seem to be the same but it isn't, because the movie also proposes choice can change what happens, which is the main plot point, whether you would chose to have a child you know is going to die. This means you can change the outcome of things, and determinism and causality are out of the window (which they very well should since FTL travel apparently exists).
So this circular flashbacks/forwards are constantly changing, time is not an static and the events that unfold are not static.
This pretty much, imagine we trying to communicate with a hive of bees, and we know they have an actual language, that we have actually reproduced it, but concepts like time and space are still a pretty huge challenge to communicate even if we are far more evolved and intelligent than them.
Freewheelin'
Member
Seeing the future and being able to change the future is not the same thing.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Not necessarily. If they can also exist on a higher dimension, they don't need FTL travel to traverse large distances. This would also be a clue as to why they don't exhibit any signs of radiation, waste, or communication, or also why they just disappear into thin air, rather than zoom out into space.
mambadragon
Banned
Gaming-Ryu
Member
I quite enjoyed the film. Loved the structure and theme of the movie, overall very good movie and direction by Dennis Villeneuve.
As a Sci-Fi fan, I feel we've been blessed. From just the last few years alone, we've had Gravity, Interstellar, The Martian and Arrival. All good/great hard Sci-Fi films with a high budget and helmed by great directors. Movies with different approaches to the Sci-Fi genre, tackling issues from space exploration to alien contact; and in different ways, from action to adventure, from thriller to drama, there's something for every fan of the genre.
One thing I couldn't help but noticed whilst watching Arrival, was some of the parallels it drew with Interstellar. Anyone else notice this? This film feels a bit like the smaller scale Nolan film of the past in some respects, something that he might do again if he ever dials back the scope of his film.
Here are some similar things between both films:
- the emphasis on the maternal/paternal bond
- the awkwardness of some of the plot and/or dialog (Hathaway/Renner speech, etc.)
- the conclusions that rely on the fantastical not-too-scientific elements, i.e. time paradox
Perhaps because of the smaller scope or as a result of a better more coherent script, Arrival is definitely much tighter, and less clunky film. The endings, especially, while both are fantastical, I thought Arrival's was much easier to like and accept; although I admire the boldness of Interstellar's too.
OTOH, I thought Interstellar did some things better than Arrival. Such as having, IMO, better characters as well as their more believable relationships, and better visual and soundtrack (although this is highly subjective and Arrival is very good in these aspects too). I also like the warmer tone of Interstellar better. And not just of this film. People often complain that Nolan is a 'cold' director, devoiding of the warmer human touch, but I find Villeneuve is even 'colder' in almost all of his films.
And Interstellar stuck with me more, partly because of the aforementioned warmer, more believable characters, and partly because of the fascinating science behind the film. I think I read up on the science behind Interstellar for a whole week after I'd watched the film.
Anyway, like I said, love both Arrival and Interstellar, and like Gravity and The Martian too. Truly a great time to be a fan of hard Sci-Fi.
As a Sci-Fi fan, I feel we've been blessed. From just the last few years alone, we've had Gravity, Interstellar, The Martian and Arrival. All good/great hard Sci-Fi films with a high budget and helmed by great directors. Movies with different approaches to the Sci-Fi genre, tackling issues from space exploration to alien contact; and in different ways, from action to adventure, from thriller to drama, there's something for every fan of the genre.
One thing I couldn't help but noticed whilst watching Arrival, was some of the parallels it drew with Interstellar. Anyone else notice this? This film feels a bit like the smaller scale Nolan film of the past in some respects, something that he might do again if he ever dials back the scope of his film.
Here are some similar things between both films:
- the emphasis on the maternal/paternal bond
- the awkwardness of some of the plot and/or dialog (Hathaway/Renner speech, etc.)
- the conclusions that rely on the fantastical not-too-scientific elements, i.e. time paradox
Perhaps because of the smaller scope or as a result of a better more coherent script, Arrival is definitely much tighter, and less clunky film. The endings, especially, while both are fantastical, I thought Arrival's was much easier to like and accept; although I admire the boldness of Interstellar's too.
OTOH, I thought Interstellar did some things better than Arrival. Such as having, IMO, better characters as well as their more believable relationships, and better visual and soundtrack (although this is highly subjective and Arrival is very good in these aspects too). I also like the warmer tone of Interstellar better. And not just of this film. People often complain that Nolan is a 'cold' director, devoiding of the warmer human touch, but I find Villeneuve is even 'colder' in almost all of his films.
And Interstellar stuck with me more, partly because of the aforementioned warmer, more believable characters, and partly because of the fascinating science behind the film. I think I read up on the science behind Interstellar for a whole week after I'd watched the film.
Anyway, like I said, love both Arrival and Interstellar, and like Gravity and The Martian too. Truly a great time to be a fan of hard Sci-Fi.
Saw this, enjoyed it. but have a few questions:
- when does the plot actually start? Is she married before she meets Renner and has a kid with him?
- did anyone else learn the language? is the Chinese General time travelling or whatever during that phone conversation?
- more to my last point, why did they send twelve ships, teach one person the language and then fuck off? And if they did teach humans the language, why doesn't Renner know his daughter is going to die?
T'was good but Contact was better. Soundtrack was dope though
- when does the plot actually start? Is she married before she meets Renner and has a kid with him?
- did anyone else learn the language? is the Chinese General time travelling or whatever during that phone conversation?
- more to my last point, why did they send twelve ships, teach one person the language and then fuck off? And if they did teach humans the language, why doesn't Renner know his daughter is going to die?
T'was good but Contact was better. Soundtrack was dope though
Came into this thread to ask if anyone knows what it actually contains, possibly thinking of watching it again.
My local Cineworld has it for 1 showing on Monday and it looks to be 6 minutes longer.
I believe the Universal Language book written by her taught everyone about the alien's language
.
I really liked the movie, but it was kind of different what I expected (sth. more sciency like the martian). The ending was a bit letdown tbh, with the ability seeing the future when you learn the language and that the main purpose of the aliens was to help the humans so that they can help them in the far future felt kind weak.
Back-In-Black
Banned
I saw it a week or so ago but forgot to post. Any way, after so much hype I was prepared for a really great sci-fi flick and instead what I got was merely an "okay" one. I agree with another poster that was puzzled by individuals who criticized Interstellar for its similar themes but praise Arrival here. I loved Interstellar WAY more and felt it landed its theme a lot better, even if it was a bit bumpy, than Arrival did. I also predicted the big twist about half-way in and got a bit frustrated when the movie kept explaining it to the characters and audience well after they should have gotten the point. The plot holes regarding her time memories also doesn't help the movie.
I know I'm sounding at this point like I hate the movie, I didn't. I just didn't think it was that special. As Mike noted in his "Half in the Bag Review" it felt to me like a standard good Star Trek episode, but not even a two parter to me just a good single episode. If you've watched any good sci-fi or watched any Star Trek series the movie just feels kind of been there, done that.
I know I'm sounding at this point like I hate the movie, I didn't. I just didn't think it was that special. As Mike noted in his "Half in the Bag Review" it felt to me like a standard good Star Trek episode, but not even a two parter to me just a good single episode. If you've watched any good sci-fi or watched any Star Trek series the movie just feels kind of been there, done that.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Chronologically, it goes: The aliens arrive, Louise and Ian spend a couple months with the aliens, unification happens a year and a half later, Louise and Ian have a kid, Ian leaves Louise because she tells him that Hannah's gonna die and she always knew it.
It's unclear if anyone else is as proficient at the language as Louise is by the end of the movie. Presumably, more and more people do learn it later, as Louise is shown publishing a book about it and teaching a class about it.
The Chinese general isn't time travelling. Louise is remembering a conversation they have in the future.
They sent twelve ships because they needed to get a larger sampling of humanity. Not just one country. They also wanted to encourage humanity to work together by sharing.
You only remember the future if you truly immerse yourself in the language. Presumably, Renner's character didn't do that since he didn't know Hanna was gonna die.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What plot holes?
Just watched this. I was so on board but was almost completely checked out for the last 20 minutes.
I can pinpoint the exact moment: when she says "they don't experience time like we do, for them it's non-linear" or thereabouts. I immediately felt disappointment, I've seen that before. Or perhaps more accurately I'm very familiar with that concept.
Up until that point the aliens, their form, their language, their ship, it was all truly alien and fascinating, but as soon as they were revealed to be timey wimey I lost a lot of interest.
I know this element is kinda essential to the human story of Louise and Ian and their kid, and also it's never easy for a film to balance mystery with satisfaction, but I dunno... I just didn't FEEL anything in that last sequence with her choosing to stay with him and have the daughter.
It's a weird situation where I can't exactly say "this movie should've done this particular thing better" or whatever, I just walked away feeling very dissatisfied.
I can pinpoint the exact moment: when she says "they don't experience time like we do, for them it's non-linear" or thereabouts. I immediately felt disappointment, I've seen that before. Or perhaps more accurately I'm very familiar with that concept.
Up until that point the aliens, their form, their language, their ship, it was all truly alien and fascinating, but as soon as they were revealed to be timey wimey I lost a lot of interest.
I know this element is kinda essential to the human story of Louise and Ian and their kid, and also it's never easy for a film to balance mystery with satisfaction, but I dunno... I just didn't FEEL anything in that last sequence with her choosing to stay with him and have the daughter.
It's a weird situation where I can't exactly say "this movie should've done this particular thing better" or whatever, I just walked away feeling very dissatisfied.
Monocle
Member
Interstellar is hamhandedly sentimental. When a movie has a scientist spouting braindead lines about love being a transcendent universal force or whatever, it effectively disqualifies itself from the realm of serious sci-fi.
Interstellar is a brilliant space film welded to manipulative melodrama for people who need to be told what to feel because they can't relate to the majesty of the cosmos.
Arrival has sentimental elements too, but at least it respects its audience a little more by giving proper emphasis to the communication theme instead of drowning us in sappiness.
shira
Member
I couldn't swallow Interstellar when it starts going nuts.
Atraveller
Banned
Saw it yesterday in a theater, this is going to be one my favorites. I have great confidence in Denis' Blade Runner.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/item/arrival-uhd-bdThere is?
Nah.
The way I see it, yes the aliens know that the mistranslation will happen. And they let it happen, because they know in the end their objective (teaching human the language) will still be fulfilled as the ending of the film shows. And they don't deviate from this course even if they can do it in an "easier" way (they clearly understand Louise' English at the end so, due to their ability, they understand English all along) because, possibly, it might be the only version of future they are privy to, and since they can see that it works out for them (probably 3000 years later too, if they do live that long to foresee it) they don't dare deviate from it. Hence the reason why they don't just kick out the soldiers who plant the bomb, or kick Louise and Ian out earlier so Abbott doesn't die - Abbott knows he has to die so he sacrifice himself.I meant that they have to know that the humans would misunderstood their word as weapon, that people freak out and try to attack them etc.
Granted their abilities to see the future seem to be limited as they didn't really do much about the bomb (which as far I understood it, killed one of the aliens), but that seems like a pretty straightforward thing to plan for when the whole planet is turning on them in some alternate reality (well again, to be fair, we haven't seen how it would look like for her to "remember" a future that she wants to change - like the aliens did, hence coming to Earth).
Oh and Earth hardly worked together in that movie and actually the scientific interaction is greater in real life than in scenario that is controlled by the military (and at the end of the movie no one works together with anyone, she had to use future knowledge to convince the general).
As described above, the way the movie presents the plot is that the aliens should be aware of the outcome that is a mistranslation. Hence making sure they get that one word right.
I'm more talking about the general premise though. With the movie adding the factoid that the aliens want to evolve humans so that they can help them in 3000 years, you would think that they could do much, much better at explaining the situation to them.
Like, thanks to how their mind works they should have already lived through all that language learning and could literally spray paint into the air in English "we come in peace. But we need help in the future. If you learn our language, you will be experiencing time differently and effectively can predict the future (even though you are still a 3dimensional beings and thus live only in your present - sorry we don't know how this really works ourselves that's why we get blasted by bombs we try to point at for 10 minutes before they go off". Well maybe not the last part but you get the point
If the story regarding the aliens was more ambiguous, I would have enjoyed the movie much more. The movie isn't even about them really anyway. Even them just visiting to talk with other species (with or without knowing that learning their language would give humans their abilities) would make more sense.
Learning that the original story did not contain the aspects above emboldens me to think that the original author would also agree that this just renders the movie open for plotholes etc.
I've only skimmed parts of the original story and heard from others, but I think the aliens are still mysterious enough in the film. I wonder if, since they can all experience time in a non-linear manner, they would have no free will, as all their actions are predetermined to serve "a greater good" (teaching humans for whatever lies 3000 years later). Abbott does sacrifice himself, but he also knocks on the screen before he does (I'm assuming to warn the human) - is that him making a choice to try to save himself or, in the future he foresees, he always knocks so he also knocks in reality (kinda like a time loop).
All in all I really like this film (and it makes much more sense on a rewatch) and I like the changes they do to the original story (as a whole - I still haven't read the original in full). I only wish they made it 11 ships instead of 12, that would fit more with the recurring palindrome theme (the original has 121 devices - 11 times 11).
The_Hitcher89
Member
The rogue soldiers leaving a bomb in the ship is one of the most immersion-breaking plot contrivances I can remember seeing. Its such a stupid action, it can't be justified.
As soon as she said "if you want science, ask your father" I realized what was going on with the memories (I'm not the type who tries to figure a movie out as I watch, it just happened). At that point I expected the movie to be more subdued about the fact she was seeing the future, but then there was a stretch where it got a bit too Shyamalan Mactwisty for my tastes, especially when the rest of the movie was so graceful while presenting its concepts. Her future conversation with the Chinese general was fairly clumsy too and stuck out like a sore thumb in a movie so well-crafted.
That's pretty much my only complaint though, the narration bits and the soldiers subplot didn't bother me. It's a wonderful film with outstanding acting and direction. I love how much tension it manages to create in the first half with smart scene composition and sound design. The story has the right amount of intelectual and sentimental beats that makes good scifi work. The overal messages of understanding and communication were sweet, and the final one of "making a choice for love despite the pain" hit me hard.
That's pretty much my only complaint though, the narration bits and the soldiers subplot didn't bother me. It's a wonderful film with outstanding acting and direction. I love how much tension it manages to create in the first half with smart scene composition and sound design. The story has the right amount of intelectual and sentimental beats that makes good scifi work. The overal messages of understanding and communication were sweet, and the final one of "making a choice for love despite the pain" hit me hard.
yeah, definitely. I concede that it's a difficult balance to achieve in these cases. Even with how it was there are still people who had a hard time grasping it, I was skimming the thread and saw posts confused about things like the red herring flash forward at the beginning of the movie, why Ian couldn't see the future like Louise, etc.
I do appreciate how much they left in the open concerning the future and the aliens. A lesser film would have intercut the ending with scenes of humanity 3000 years later or something, instead of ending on a more personal note with Louise.
Thought it was great. Sure the time elements might lessen your enjoyment when it's revealed but ultimately I think it's a very successful execution of the story. Good amount of mystery or at the least intrigue, appropriate pacing, satisfying ending IMO.
I don't have kids and I'm not at all even thinking about it at this stage of my life but the culmination of the memories of the daughter, the relationship forming and falling apart absolutely destroyed me. I like that at its core it's a very simple, emotional and human movie despite the sci-fi elements. Felt like what Interstellar failed to deliver on.
I don't have kids and I'm not at all even thinking about it at this stage of my life but the culmination of the memories of the daughter, the relationship forming and falling apart absolutely destroyed me. I like that at its core it's a very simple, emotional and human movie despite the sci-fi elements. Felt like what Interstellar failed to deliver on.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Atraveller
Banned
I think people giving into fear and conspiracy theories, and governments refuse to work with each other due to paranoia, are relevant in our current political climate.
How? You really think humanity will act rationally at the arrival of aliens?
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