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[StereoVsn]

Is this a serious argument? People criticizing PDP are saying, among other things, that this sort of action encourages and emboldens nazis. Here is a nazi saying he feels encouraged and emboldened by PDP's actions.

This is correct. Whether it's this particular asshole or another "comedian" referncing and joking anout genocide, the effect is the same as it normalizes the reference, makes it seem to be on topic to joke about and emboldens marginal (maybe not so marginal now days) elements.

This is NOT ok. Whether or not he is anti-semite, the result is similar.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It should really be ok to say anything you want as long as you're not forcing it on other people. As long as people have the choice to not listen to you, why shouldn't you be able to say what you want? People will call you out for it and think you're a dick if you say certain things, but you should still be allowed to say it.

So by this logic what exactly is wrong with this "smear campaign"?

 

[MarveI]

He probably thought he could get away with it after his popularity.

I'm glad he got punished for this.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Ah how does this work?

It's not difficult to understand. If I can ignore you, you can say what you want. I'll just not listen.

So by this logic what exactly is wrong with this "smear campaign"?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it? I just don't see how people have the energy to put this much effort into reacting about something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

 

[hodgy100]

Out of context it can be, sure, which is what it is on the majority of sites reporting this.

In context I don't see how it can be interpreted as anti-semitic when he has quite literally shamed the behavior of the people doing it.

The H3H3 video summed it up perfectly, have you watched it yet? If not, he echo's my opinion on the matter.

It's a smear campaign because of shit like this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-anti-semitic-death-to-all-jews-a7580206.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney...pewdiepie-after-anti-semitic-posts-1487034533

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ome-cool-alt-right-young-people-a7579756.html

its in context :/ ive watched the H3H3 video and i think he is missing the point of misinterpreting what these articles are reporting and just reacting to the headline, much like you are.

These articles that you cite as being part of a "smear campaign" point out factual things that did happen, they show PDP's own disgust that the people on fiver actually did what he paid them to do.

One of your links is an opinion piece which of course is much more emotionally charged but still points out the issues they have with PDP's jokes (they do refer to them as jokes and they dont call him an anti-semite) they read as criticisms on PDP's terrible taste in jokes rather than going after him with a personal vendetta in order to sink his popularity. I seriously have no idea how you have built up that image in your head from those articles.

(note: i can't read the WSJ link it seems to be blocked off by a paywall / login wall that i can't get through :/ )

 

[Ray Wonder]

I mean, just because they come off as trolls doesn't make them any less dangerous. That's how we got where we are in the US. We watched communities get progressively worse and more bigoted and turned a blind eye. These types of people pray on your insecurities and don't just stay on that site, they go to 4chan, pol, r9k, and many more talk in ways that try to inspire any downtrodden folks to their cause.

Look at GamerGate. That is the most recent thing from insecurities of a group of people, and they infiltrated them and converted and converting quite a lot.

"Internet trolls have been on the rise. That's how these neo-nazi trolls are dangerous."

Nah, they see people wrongfully calling for PewDiePie's channel to be shut down because he's a "racist/bigot/fascist" and they go troll for attention. Their little site isn't anymore dangerous than any other place that allows that speech.

 

[Fess]

Out of context it can be, sure, which is what it is on the majority of sites reporting this.

In context I don't see how it can be interpreted as anti-semitic when he has quite literally shamed the behavior of the people doing it.

The H3H3 video summed it up perfectly, have you watched it yet? If not, he echo's my opinion on the matter.

It's a smear campaign because of shit like this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-anti-semitic-death-to-all-jews-a7580206.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney...pewdiepie-after-anti-semitic-posts-1487034533

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ome-cool-alt-right-young-people-a7579756.html

is it this video?
https://youtu.be/JLNSiFrS3n4

I agree that context matters and it's going too far when media points at him being an anti-semitic.

BUT some things can't be joked at, the holocaust is one of those things.

Dumb people make dumb jokes though, even at this place, possibly right now in some other thread, nuke jokes, rape jokes, suicide jokes, drug jokes, etc. When you do this and have 50 million people subscribing to your words then you should assume that there will be consequences.

The witch hunt is an overreaction but he should definitely feel the burn and publicly appologise.

 

[Ozigizo]

It's not ok to say racist things when it comes from a dark place, when it is intended to hurt somebody.

But three of my favorite comedians of all time, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock have all had jokes from shows that have ripped on Jewish people, black people, white people, asian people, the list goes on.

The difference is, you KNOW these jokes aren't coming from a bad place, these individuals aren't racists, the word racist and racism should be reserved for people who have genuine hatred in their hearts towards other people based on their race.

Unless you are suggesting comedians never make jokes towards races ever again?

Did those commedians ever jokingly support genocide?

You trying to define what racism entails is laughable.

 

[napata]

So, answer me this real quick: Is it OK to say racist things as long as it's a joke?

I think so. I've seen comedians make fun of cancer, aids, disabled people, suicide bombers, kids starving in Africa, etc. Those are way worse than racism in my opinion.

 

[hodgy100]

I think suggesting he is a nazi and white supremacist is libel, don't you?

I am not "caping" for PDP, I didn't even find the video funny, I am "Caping" for common sense rather than hyperbolic garbage arguments and sensationalist headlines..

where are they suggesting that? they are saying its not a very clever thing to do considering the current climate (and it isn't)

and no you aren't "caping" for "common sense rather than hyperbolic garbage arguments and sensationalist headlines" you are camping for not reading and mis-interpreting articles and then making hyperbolic arguments based on just what you have read from the headline.

So, answer me this real quick: Is it OK to say racist things as long as it's a joke?

yes if the joke is actually good and isn't inciting hatred or emboldening racists

 

[Nanashrew]

It's not ok to say racist things when it comes from a dark place, when it is intended to hurt somebody.

But three of my favorite comedians of all time, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock have all had jokes from shows that have ripped on Jewish people, black people, white people, asian people, the list goes on.

The difference is, you KNOW these jokes aren't coming from a bad place, these individuals aren't racists, the word racist and racism should be reserved for people who have genuine hatred in their hearts towards other people based on their race.

Unless you are suggesting comedians never make jokes towards races ever again?

Chris Rock was brought up earlier in the thread and how he retired a routine he used to do talking about the black community because he found that it was emboldening racists to use terms and make it okay to say some things about black people and he didn't want that.

 

[Ray Wonder]

So, answer me this real quick: Is it OK to say racist things as long as it's a joke?

In most cases, I'd say yeah. Why not? If you're easily offended, don't attend the shows that do that. There's sites on the Internet where you can go watch people get their heads cut off, the world is much darker than some racist jokes.

 

[mark-san]

It's not difficult to understand. If I can ignore you, you can say what you want. I'll just not listen.



I didn't say there was anything wrong with it? I just don't see how people have the energy to put this much effort into reacting about something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

And what if you are influencing millions of people, including some who are at an age where their minds act like a sponge, absorbing everything they receive?

Do we really want children and teenagers screaming "Death to all jews", even as a "joke"?

 

[Gravy Boat]

And what if you are influencing millions of people, including some who are at an age where their minds act like a sponge, absorbing everything they receive?

Do we really want children and teenagers screaming "Death to all jews", even as a "joke"?

No, I want parents to be responsible for their own kids and make sure they're not watching stuff they think is unsuitable.

 

[bengraven]

Oh, are they employed by Disney and make premium content for YouTube as well?

Have you ever seen behind the scenes at Disney in Florida? You don't want Minnie to pull her mask off and show you her Mama June tobacco stained smile.

 

[hodgy100]

The headline is part of the article, it's the first thing people read and as often shown, the only thing people read these days.

If you cannot see how these articles are trying to twist the context and make him seem like an Anti-Semite then I really don't know what else to say, I mean one of them outright calls him a facist and references the fact that he is "White with $124M net worth" in the same sentence, why?

is that in the WSJ article. i can't read the article even after logging in for some reason? because it isn't in the independent article or the independent opinion piece. The independent opinion piece is citing pewds own privilege hes a rich white guy that has never had to deal with persecution over his race, creed religion or financial position, I agree the phrase isn't in good taste either but thats opinion pieces for you.

 

[Ozigizo]

In most cases, I'd say yeah. Why not? If you're easily offended, don't attend the shows that do that. There's sites on the Internet where you can go watch people get their heads cut off, the world is much darker than some racist jokes.

But I don't believe that saying something is a joke should immediately free you from critisism.

See: Michael Richards.

 

[Harmen]

Out of context it can be, sure, which is what it is on the majority of sites reporting this.

In context I don't see how it can be interpreted as anti-semitic when he has quite literally shamed the behavior of the people doing it.

The H3H3 video summed it up perfectly, have you watched it yet? If not, he echo's my opinion on the matter.

It's a smear campaign because of shit like this.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-anti-semitic-death-to-all-jews-a7580206.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney...pewdiepie-after-anti-semitic-posts-1487034533

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ome-cool-alt-right-young-people-a7579756.html

I agree. I think he went to far and understand the production company under Disney reacts like this.

However, the media only briefly mention the actual context of his videos in their written articles, but uses clickbait headlines and out of context videos to smear him for the clicks.

Now it is perfectly understandable if people think Pewdiepie is in the wrong when looking at the vids in context (I do as well), but the way it is now I think this is bad journalism aimed at creating as much controversy as possible for attention. And we all know damn well that people don't read beyond the headlines. Even people here on gaf linked to google showing older headlines regarding Pewdiepie's racism as "proof". I think the media has a responsibilty in creating good headlines, just like pewdiepie has a responsibility in regards to his fanbase in this situation.




Furthermore, I also believe legitimately calling people like pewdiepie Nazi's because they made awful jokes detracts from the power of calling out actual Nazi's who in fact actually want minorities to go away or even die. And that gives the latter group more power. I find that extremely troubling.

 

[leaf_]

I feel like Ethan Klein's video should be required watching before arguing in this thread. He has the unique perspective of being Felix's friend, a Jewish person, and having the full context.

This video too should be required It's just a joke bro
Ethan really has no moral ground to defend any of this shit.

 

[Ray Wonder]

But I don't believe that saying something is a joke should immediately free you from critisism.

See: Michael Richards.

Criticism is part of free speech. You're allowed to criticize whatever you want. Going to length to try and ruin or change someone's life because of it is where the line starts to blur as to which side is in the right.

This video too should be required It's just a joke bro
Ethan really has no moral ground to defend any of this shit.

You don't need moral high ground to make valid points.

 

[rezn0r]

It's funny, the same time people started bringing up Louis CK in here I was driving home from seeing Louis CK in Boston. Even though I went into it thinking he may be getting stale, it was really great - he made fun of Jesus, child molesters talking to his daughters, Africa, America, Jews, Christians (more than Jews), gays (along with a really long joke where the punchline was he's really gay but too old to admit it), and tons of other things.

In every single "shock" (quotes because I don't consider them shocking, but apparently a lot of people around here would) comment, there was a really intelligent point to be made that usually was the punchline itself. While I haven't seen what PDP posted or filmed outside of some screenshots and pastes in this thread, it doesn't seem like he really has the ability or even tried to duplicate this style. All I see is the "shock" part of it, where if he was just trying to be controversial - he did a pretty good job at it. At the same time, he forgot who his sponsors and audience were, apparently. I'm not Jewish, so yeah when I say "it wouldn't offend me compared to a lot of other things going on in this world" it doesn't mean shit, I know. I think PDP was just stupid and screwed up royally.

To the people saying it isn't his job to be a parent, I completely agree with you. However, not wanting to cater to his audience/sponsors who have made him a royal fuckload of money isn't the best business decision. It wouldn't be in any line of work. So sure he doesn't have to care about anyone's kids (or any adult's feelings either) but he does have to deal with the response to whatever it is he's doing to piss people off. That's real life, that's how the world works. I was never a big fan of him or streamers in general, but if he does actually have talent, maybe it's time he tried to move on to a different platform to be entertaining to adults who can deal with that type of humor (still not convinced he has the ability to act this way in a humorous way though). What the platform would be at this point though, I have no idea, that's his job to figure out, not mine. Good luck.

Added: After seeing some of the recent posts that I missed, not that anyone wants my opinion but it is: He shouldn't lose his channel, I think that's ridiculous. Companies cutting ties with him are the part I see as completely reasonable and normal.
Double added: After another minute of thought (still waking up) I think I take that back. I agree it's well within YT's right to take his channel away. He has such a big name and enough money that he could jump onto Twitch or his own site or whatever the hell else at this point. I guess that's what I meant.

guy can't even draw a proper swastika.

I feel like most people that would even want to can't

 

[Gravy Boat]

Criticism is part of free speech. You're allowed to criticize whatever you want. Going to length to try and ruin or change someone's life because of it is where the line starts to blur as to which side is in the right.

Exactly. If he's telling jokes you don't like then call him out on it, but trying to ruin his life is a completely disproportionate response. It also requires way more effort than just ignoring him, which is really what people offended by said jokes should be doing.

 

[Nanashrew]

"Internet trolls have been on the rise. That's how these neo-nazi trolls are dangerous."

Nah, they see people wrongfully calling for PewDiePie's channel to be shut down because he's a "racist/bigot/fascist" and they go troll for attention. Their little site isn't anymore dangerous than any other place that allows that speech.

You legitimately do not know how this stuff works and how easy it is for people like that to pray upon the insecurities of others and reshape them. It's what nazis do. It's been a thing they've done since Hitler's regime.

Alt-right is a rebrand of nazi too so lets dive into that.

Sargon of Akkad, a known high profile GamerGater and alt-righter spreading his views of hate to young kids and adults, and JonTron was even in a podcast with him talking about a politician in Germany who has speeches similar to Hitler. How about Milo Yiannopolus, a writer at BrietBart News and known alt-righter also becoming a GamerGater to get people more interested in his views and come to his site full of bigotry and fake news. Before GamerGate he talked about how gamers are killers and commit acts of murder and always trying to link a murder to games. People accepted him with open arms because they found an ally in him.

There's a hell of a lot more but I'd be going off topic.

EDIT: Daily Stormer and real nazis don't care if he is one or not. They don't care about his beliefs. They see what's happening around social media and such and looking at how it could benefit them.

 

[Diprosalic]

This video too should be required It's just a joke bro
Ethan really has no moral ground to defend any of this shit.

guy can't even draw a proper swastika.

 

[Ozigizo]

Criticism is part of free speech. You're allowed to criticize whatever you want. Going to length to try and ruin or change someone's life because of it is where the line starts to blur as to which side is in the right.

Now you're just adding your own sense of morality to it.

You know who else did that? YouTube and Disney. They are completely within their rights to say this was wrong. And I agree with them.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Criticism is part of free speech. You're allowed to criticize whatever you want. Going to length to try and ruin or change someone's life because of it is where the line starts to blur as to which side is in the right.

People are not ruining his life. He is free to publish content and say whatever he wants. Just not under the Disney label. Which is their right, as no individual or company should be forced to be associated with something they don't want to be associated with.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I feel like this is so fucking simple.

No, it's probably not reasonable to look at this situation and say "Pewdiepie is a Nazi".

It is however very reasonable to look at it and say "I am not surprised that Youtube and Disney want nothing to do with him after the video in question." Like, of course they would drop him, and it was a fucking dumb stunt in the first place.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

1500 replies?

The defense force must be immense.

 

[leaf_]

Criticism is part of free speech. You're allowed to criticize whatever you want. Going to length to try and ruin or change someone's life because of it is where the line starts to blur as to which side is in the right.



You don't need moral high ground to make valid points.

But Ethan surely does...

I really liked h3 but everytime he opens his mouth to speak about politics and in this particular case, his opinions are as usual biased and uninformed as fuck.
Lets remember his both sides are bad bullshit.
Offending the people that were sick and shocked by Trump's victory, and acting like Trump is just like any other candidate.
"Every election I can remember the losing side is always like this is the end of the world"
Except this time it may as well be judging by the not even completed first fucking month.
And PDP saying that a president actions can't be felt by the people...
"People took it so personally..." when you don't even have to leave your fucking house to earn a shit ton of money its really easy to judge and say this kind of shit.

 

[Gin-Shiio]

How did we go from "Youtuber makes stupid joke and gets sacked by sponsors" to "OH MY GOD, our right to display comedy is under attack! We must protect the Youtuber at all costs!"

That's just the American mindset.

 

[SaniOYOYOY]

1500 replies?

The defense force must be immense.

dude even ffxv has more defense force on gaf than this pewdiewhine lol

look. I understand the jew comment in or outside the context can be offensive for some people,
but the fact that this guy gets heat because of some bullshit journalism is why i do this "defend", and look at this thread, gaff of all places chowin down this article no problem, what are we freaking 4chan?

but but this doesnt excuse him for making a racist comment

 

[(mat)]

It's hard to take any of this seriously when a good portion of this thread is drive-by, "LOL Good! I'm glad that annoying fucker is getting what he deserves!" comments.

I mean, I'm not a fan of this guy either, but so many of you were ready to burn him at the stake before this thing was blown out of proportion, as it was.

"People took it so personally..." when you don't even have to leave your fucking house to earn a shit ton of money its really easy to judge and say this kind of shit.

Definitely lost me here.

 

[(mat)]

Sorry - double post.

 

[Glass Shark]

PewDiePie is garbage, H3H3 is garbage, most "YouTube creators" are garbage.

I have no sympathy for someone who creates anti-Semitic content, even as a "prank" or "social experiment."

Beyond the fact that it's offensive and demeaning, it's just not funny.

 

[Nanashrew]

Exactly. If he's telling jokes you don't like then call him out on it, but trying to ruin his life is a completely disproportionate response. It also requires way more effort than just ignoring him, which is really what people offended by said jokes should be doing.

No one is trying to ruin his life. His dumb mistakes cost him partnership deals. If you said kill all jews as a joke at the work place there's a high chance you'll be in the unemployment line yourself.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

It's hard to take any of this seriously when a good portion of this thread is drive-by, "LOL Good! I'm glad that annoying fucker is getting what he deserves!" comments.

I mean, I'm not a fan of this guy either, but so many of you were ready to burn him at the stake before this thing was blown out of proportion, as it was.

Sorry the response to the anti-semitic videos wasn't proportional.

 

[(mat)]

Sorry the response to the anti-semitic videos wasn't proportional.

It's okay. I know you didn't mean it.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it? I just don't see how people have the energy to put this much effort into reacting about something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

Probably because just saying your joking doesn't absolve you from the fallout of your actions.

I don't really get why this is so hard to grasp. The example given is Chris Rock's black people vs "n word" comedy skit. He was obviously joking. However the way people reacted to that skit and the outcome made him refrain from telling it anymore. Because a real subset of his audience was taking it to harmful places.

These people have real influence. The fact that it's a joke doesn't mean that their words don't have a profound impact on the audience. I think there should be an expectation that "I'm joking" isn't a cover for saying any shit you want "free of criticism" or even "free of public persona destruction".

I don't think it's a particularly high bar like some are arguing either.

 

[RRockman]

I realized that is a just because you can, doesn't mean that you should scenario. Pewdiepie should have known better forsure but I really dislike how Wall Street Journal made this big video without editing context to demonize him. I don't care if it's a silly hill to die on, the fact remains is that both were in the wrong and I expected better from a news site. If they are willing to fudge up the truth for a small matter like this they are definitely willing to fudge it up for bigger matters. It's disgusting.

 

[ScatheZombie]

Being linked to anti semitism regardless of how successful you are is a death sentence. Look at what happened to Mel Gibson. No company wants to be associated with someone with perceived racist views.

Donald Trump is our President.

Donald Trump is our President.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

I realized that is a just because you can, doesn't mean that you should scenario. Pewdiepie should have known better forsure but I really dislike how Wall Street Journal made this big video without editing context to demonize him. I don't care if it's a silly hill to die on, the fact remains is that both were in the wrong and I expected better from a news site. If they are willing to fudge up the truth for a small matter like this they are definitely willing to fudge it up for bigger matters. It's disgusting.

You're right. This is a very silly hill to die on. Especially with this both sides nonsense.

 

[Theorry]

Good vid from h3h3Productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

 

[Spukc]

Good vid from h3h3Productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

Some good points he made there great video as usual.

 

[Head.spawn]

I realized that is a just because you can, doesn't mean that you should scenario. Pewdiepie should have known better forsure but I really dislike how Wall Street Journal made this big video without editing context to demonize him. I don't care if it's a silly hill to die on, the fact remains is that both were in the wrong and I expected better from a news site. If they are willing to fudge up the truth for a small matter like this they are definitely willing to fudge it up for bigger matters. It's disgusting.

Big thread, what happened on WSJ end? I assumed everyone here actually watched Pewdpies video before they went all-in.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Good vid from h3h3Productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

If it was a stetement then PewDiePie paid 2 random guys to tell the world to kill all Jews and then he spread that message internationally using his popularity. If it was a joke then a millionaire used 2 poor people's desperation as a stunt that he then showed in-between random fart sounds on his entertainment channel for children. People keep switching the interpretation depending on which one seems more conveneient at a given moment ("can't you tell an innocent racist joke anymore?" "can't you make a statement to point out a real world issue anymore?"). I'm not surprised big companies with money involved won't bother trying to solve this one.

Also he'll live, he was removed from an advertisement program and lost a show but his Youtube channel exists and will keep being popular. Too bad that those 2 guys he used weren't that lucky and got banned from Fiverr because of him so now they need to find a new way to pay for food.

 

[Metroidvania]

Good vid from h3h3Productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

Uh.....'It's a joke' doesn't somehow magically excuse the underlying point behind (at least some of) the outrage, in which, you know, bringing up murder of 6 million people as a joke to 'see how far someone would go' on your youtube channel that has millions of subscribers.

I don't think Felix is an anti-semite, mind, but H3h3 saying 'it's a jooooooke, as a Jew, I'm not offended, and I'm Jewish' doesn't somehow miraculously excuse Felix from what happened.

 

[RRockman]

You're right. This is a very silly hill to die on. Especially with this both sides nonsense.

So that's it? The ends justify the means? Sure the media may be doing good this time but what happens when they aren't on your side? I can't support either side like this but only shake my head with disdain. call me what you like but that's how feel about the matter.

 

[NewDust]

Good vid from h3h3Productions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLNSiFrS3n4

Not gonna lie when he said

Spoiler

"it"

, that was funny.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

So that's it? The ends justify the means? Sure the media may be doing good this time but what happens when they aren't on your side? I can't support either side like this but only shake my head with disdain. call me what you like but that's how feel about the matter.

Lmao. FOH with this "what if" bullshit. Not a single thing you've said, actual or hypothetical, excuses what actually happened.

 

[Theorry]

Uh.....'It's a joke' doesn't somehow magically excuse the underlying point behind (at least some of) the outrage, in which, you know, bringing up murder of 6 million people as a joke to 'see how far someone would go' on your youtube channel that has millions of subscribers.

I don't think Felix is an anti-semite, mind, but H3h3 saying 'it's a jooooooke, as a Jew, I'm not offended, and I'm Jewish' doesn't somehow miraculously excuse Felix from what happened.

Oh i agree Felix has sure a big blame in all of this. But the reporting on this has been so bad also and fueling it even more. Like Wallstreet Journal. They need to be held accountable also with such bad reporting and on purpose baiting. Its not the first time "older" news outlets try to start something against him and do bad reporting. Like the sponsor thing with Shadow of Mordor.