This is total bullshit. It happened with the iPhone 4 and they also had fans that didn't give two shits. Let these people live... If they dont give a shit then they dont give a shit. You act like this is some dynasty war against justice to not care about this issue.
Gamexplain Explains the Joy-Con Desyncing Problem
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
7DollarHagane
Banned
My theory
Joycons have two modes:
1.low power when connected to tablet to conserve battery power, the signal is just strong enough for them being physically connected to the tablet.
2.normal power mode for when they are not attached to the tablet, maintains a normal Bluetooth connection at full power just like the dual shock 3 or 4.
The OS is supposed to handle an invisible transition from low to high power modes but due to a variety of different factors and usage, the low power mode stays in effect sometimes when the joycons are not connected to the tablet. It doesn't always do this but depending on the operations in effect or timing, the transition between modes may not occur.
If the pro controller does not have this issue, the joycons in the charge grip do not have this issue, and docked Joycons cannot recreate this issue I would put good money on this being the issue.
Being a software tester this is my theory: the software is stuck in low power joycon tablet mode.
Joycons have two modes:
1.low power when connected to tablet to conserve battery power, the signal is just strong enough for them being physically connected to the tablet.
2.normal power mode for when they are not attached to the tablet, maintains a normal Bluetooth connection at full power just like the dual shock 3 or 4.
The OS is supposed to handle an invisible transition from low to high power modes but due to a variety of different factors and usage, the low power mode stays in effect sometimes when the joycons are not connected to the tablet. It doesn't always do this but depending on the operations in effect or timing, the transition between modes may not occur.
If the pro controller does not have this issue, the joycons in the charge grip do not have this issue, and docked Joycons cannot recreate this issue I would put good money on this being the issue.
Being a software tester this is my theory: the software is stuck in low power joycon tablet mode.
serenewarfare
Banned
Every thread with complaints has those who aren't complaining. No thread is universal hate. This is not a Nintendo thing. And yes, the vast majority in this thread are ripping them to shreds.
Can we just focus on the topic at hand?
WordAssassin
Member
Have you been on GAF long or did you just happen to miss all the threads about this happening with PS3, PS4, and Xbox One?
I know that sounds snippy but it's not meant to be, I know it's possible to simply miss them if you don't come here frequently. But rest assured that this has absolutely happened with both Sony and Microsoft. (That doesn't make it acceptable I'm just pointing out that it's totally BS to paint this as Nintendo fan goggles)
That poster calls it potentially a huge issue and a mess for Nintendo, but that he or she isn't too worried about it personally, giving valid reasons. I'm not sure what you want? Everyone to cancel their preorders and beg Nintendo to go 3rd party?
Parapraxis
Member
Fair enough.
RareFantasy64
Member
I can't tell if this is being overblown or if it's a serious issue or something in between the two extremes
Dark Cloud
Member
So pretty much what you're saying is the console isn't switching to "normal mode" when the joy cons aren't attached to the Switch?
Sounds good. I hope this is the case.
GameAddict411
Member
This video reminds of the iPhone 4 when it launched. The moment you wrap your hands around the device it lost all cellular reception. It seems to me that it's hardware issue, but there is no way to tell for certain. It's hardware because his hands are causing an interference with the signal from the Joycons. The only to reliably take care of interference is to either boost the signal or improve the receiver. Either way, if doesn't get fixed before launch it will be a very big deal IMO. People will be holding these controllers tightly and they might not even by that close to the tablet when gaming(which I assume will make this even worse).
ViolentP
Member
Inquiring minds want to know.
unbiasedgamer
Neo Member
Sounds like a good theory, we need someone to try this out again with the charging grip connected. Since it only charges when the USB is connected.
serenewarfare
Banned
This has been my theory, but I never saw confirmation that this issue doesn't happen in the Charging Grip. I know it happens in the regular grip, though.
But there's also evidence that BT is not how they connect when attached to the system.
This is my theory, too. Allegedly when the Joycons are docked they transmit data directly, i.e. not through BT. But I wonder what happens to the BT radio at that stage? Does it disable? I would have assumed not, it needs to be in some sort of ready state because Joycons can be undocked at a moments notice.
Last_colossi
Member
This is one of the more plausible theories I've read, lets hope this is the case and the fix is included with the day one software update.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is actually a serious problem for Bluetooth and any body-worn device. Manufacturers of Bluetooth headphones have spent enormous amounts trying to make them work without cutting out if you move and the line of sight is broken by your body between the headphones and your phone.
Considering you put your hands around the Joy-Cons I cannot fathom how Nintendo didn't notice this problem during product development.
Parapraxis
Member
Just weird to shrug this off so casually to me, but whatever, it's their call of course. I just assumed these preview units would have been thoroughly tested.
My profile is readily available btw.
Haven't you already been corrected the previous three times you've posted this that BT isn't being used at all when the joycons are connected to the tablet?
7DollarHagane
Banned
I obviously don't have a unit to test with but it's logical that you would take every action you could to preserve power when the switch is in tablet mode with the joycons connected.
Like I said if:
Pro controller can't recreate the issue
And
Connected Joycons can't recreate the issue
And also (less directly correlated)
Charge grip connected Joycons can't recreate the issue
Also
The issue fixes when joycons are reconnected/disconnected, switch is restarted, software is closed and restarted, etc.
Then I think it points to a low power mode being in use in the wrong joycon configuration.
This is just a guess, of course.
Given various testing that's gone on, this issue only starts from over 8 feet-over 13 feet depending on conditions. Even taking the 8 foot minimum, a lot of people aren't going to be that far away.
This doesn't make this OK, but it's not the same degree as antenna gate.
darkistheway
Member
They could have a low-power mode while docked that isn't switching to full power.
IAmtheFMan
Member
No company gets nearly as much vitriol with its issues either. Just look at the uproar over tech specs from lay-person GAF analysts, the massive thread over a lack of a web browser, etc.
Nintendo shouldn't get a pass on the major issues. But as a consumer who does like Nintendo's IPs and yes, hardware as well, I get annoyed by those that show the slightest bit of indignation with anything that's done outside the norm (i.e. whatever Sony and Microsoft are doing). Having said that, I get equally annoyed with those that will defend any and every boneheaded move Nintendo does.
As for this, It's an issue that clearly needs to be sorted out. This isn't a deal breaker for me though as it seems like a nuisance and I do have confidence that they will work it out one way or another. Hell, I just went through a 2-3 month wait for Oculus firmware which resolved an issue that I'd had since the launch of Touch. This'll probably be worked out way sooner than that.
That isn't a magic bullet. Something happens with BT radios either way. Do they disable in docked mode? As I said earlier, unlikely. They need to be on and ready for Joycon removal at any moment, otherwise you'd get a pairing delay that would not sit well with the whole 'instantly' Switch theme the entire console has.
This is where we are speculating the issue arises from.
OrbitalBeard
Member
It goes both ways. Nintendo has the industry's biggest fanboys and the industry's biggest haters. So, it evens out.
Parapraxis
Member
Oh I have no doubt it will get worked out, it's just that as is often the case Nintendo has left me baffled. Surely they knew about this issue?
I don't see how they didn't know, really. And if they did (which...of course the know) they should have sent out a notice to people detailing the issue and how it will be resolved, right?
They could have squashed it before it was an issue imo. Again, it's just very weird for an issue like this to arise days from launch. Maybe i'm falling for my own selection bias though, I know many other companies have launch issues, this isn't a wholly unique situation in the industry.
Sorry if I pissed anybody off, I am just a spiteful WiiU owner who doesn't care for people shrugging off boneheaded moves from Nintendo.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
100% true.
7DollarHagane
Banned
If they are being used for motion games and especially games where you're not even looking at the screen it will be an issue.
Just look at milk: covering the whole joycon with your hand. Or the sword one.
The fidelity of action is much lower in those situations but also you could see playing with split joycons like Wii remote and nunchuk where the joycons might be behind your leg or in your lap.
LambdaTeos
Member
I play like 3 to 4 feet away of my 720p, 32" Sony TV from 2010 since I live in a small ass room so hopefully I don't have to go through this issue. But still sucks anyway because I cannot bring myself to buy a Pro controller right now. They cost more than 100 dollars here in Mexico. I really hope this gets fixed ASAP.
Allforce
Member
I was intrigued by the Switch enough to pre-order but this is a big enough issue that I'm not willing to throw down the cash at this point for what amounts to a roll of the dice in regards to the controllers working reliably on a videogame system. I'm patient enough to wait it out and see how things get resolved.
I have a feeling though that March 3rd is going to see a non-trivial number of reports about this issue from regular customers. If we're on Day 1 of just the press impressions and we're hearing about it this from multiple sources I can't imagine what it's going to be like when there's a million of these out in people's homes.
I have a feeling though that March 3rd is going to see a non-trivial number of reports about this issue from regular customers. If we're on Day 1 of just the press impressions and we're hearing about it this from multiple sources I can't imagine what it's going to be like when there's a million of these out in people's homes.
I guess you havent seen the people complaining about nintendo not breaking the laws of physics and making the battery being so low?
Parapraxis
Member
serenewarfare
Banned
They had a ton of journalists demoing Milk at the preview events right? And based off the Twitter videos from Jeff Gerstmann, the setup had them a decent distance from the system IIRC.
Strange that this issue never came up there.
For the motion games, you likely will be close enough to the console for this to not matter.
The second point is probably the biggest thing this issue effects.
I mean, I just don't see how what I posted could garner this kind of response. lazy generalization.
why do I need to rip them to shreds? this issue is already making enough waves so Nintendo is surely aware of it. am I mildly worried that I'll get a bad pair of joy con? sure. that's pretty much it though as nothing else is required at this moment in time.
from where I'm sitting (no pun intended actually lol) there are 2 outcomes for me as a consumer, maybe 3. outcome 1 is that this issue can be fixed via software and that's that. outcome 2 & 3 are that there are faulty joy con out there and I either get lucky and receive a pair that works or I don't and Nintendo replaces them. the worst of those outcomes is that I get a set of joy con that don't work properly and Nintendo replaces them. that's something I would consider an inconvenience because I could play in handheld mode until that happens. it would certainly inhibit my ability to play on my television but the console and controllers would still be functional as a handheld.
so yeah, hope that helps
Could it be 2.4GHz interference?
On my desktop, when I connect my Bluetooth headphones or controller, my WiFi signal drops immediately and nothing ever loads on the Internet. Once I swapped to my 5GHz network, everything works again. It doesn't happen to my laptop or iPhone meaning, hardware modules can be positioned or place differently to avoid it. Or simply, the strength of the radios can be adjusted?
The Switch is a really small console, could the bluetooth and WiFi antennas/modules be just side-by-side causing the interference?
On my desktop, when I connect my Bluetooth headphones or controller, my WiFi signal drops immediately and nothing ever loads on the Internet. Once I swapped to my 5GHz network, everything works again. It doesn't happen to my laptop or iPhone meaning, hardware modules can be positioned or place differently to avoid it. Or simply, the strength of the radios can be adjusted?
The Switch is a really small console, could the bluetooth and WiFi antennas/modules be just side-by-side causing the interference?
Parapraxis
Member
Haha, yeah I never understood that complaint given the hw and such... luckily battery technology is likely to improve tremendously in the next few years, so maybe that will be greatly improved in a future HW update.
nikos
Member
True, forgot about motion controlled games. Wonder if there's an issue at a closer distance.
IAmtheFMan
Member
No worries. I've been in that same situation of being completely flabbergasted by something this company's done only to vent and be told I was a Sony/Microsoft shill and to stop hating.
Parapraxis
Member
Thanks. I just would be upset if my console was handicapped for some time if I had to send a controller back to Nintendo or something. Hopefully this is not a HW level issue.
I don't know about you, but I wish all the perfectly good wiimotes I have would work with Switch. Would make being down 1 joycon for any amount of time far more bearable. (I'd actually use wiimotes for every possible thing I coul tbh..if they were supported)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=230913447&postcount=685
Distance has already been confirmed as one of the major factors from what I've seen. People posting the issue starts anywhere from 8-13 feet away. I assume it's setup dependent as well. Closer than that appears to be fine.
We're at a point where we just have to wait and see what Nintendo says and does. No amount of arguing about it is going to fix it. No amount of grand standing and saying you're canceling your preorder (no one is believing that. More likely there was no preorder.) is going to hurry this along. The problem was discovered, it was replicated, not everyone experienced it due to setups but others did. Did Nintendo know or not is in question. That they will fix it or have to fix it shouldn't be. How they do it is the question. Please note that this isn't even being seen as deal breaker by those with the system and have experienced this!
It doesn't negate the fact that the system can be played in hand held mode without issue or that the pro controller doesn't have any issues when used! So the system isn't dead on arrival. Knee capped or twisted its ankle is more like it since one of the modes with the included controller is an issue and even then it depends on your setup it seems. I say one because in table top mode you're more then likely going to be right next the screen/Switch (a foot at most) so there shouldn't be an issue there. Then there is people already raving (in hints) about Zelda. This is one issue in how the system is interacted with. Don't ignore all the other ways you interact with it! It's hybrid nature is what made it appealing in the first place. That didn't suddenly disappear.
I'm not trying to excuse Nintendo here. Just trying to be calm and look at the entire situation. In the end we're in wait and see mode right now.
It doesn't negate the fact that the system can be played in hand held mode without issue or that the pro controller doesn't have any issues when used! So the system isn't dead on arrival. Knee capped or twisted its ankle is more like it since one of the modes with the included controller is an issue and even then it depends on your setup it seems. I say one because in table top mode you're more then likely going to be right next the screen/Switch (a foot at most) so there shouldn't be an issue there. Then there is people already raving (in hints) about Zelda. This is one issue in how the system is interacted with. Don't ignore all the other ways you interact with it! It's hybrid nature is what made it appealing in the first place. That didn't suddenly disappear.
I'm not trying to excuse Nintendo here. Just trying to be calm and look at the entire situation. In the end we're in wait and see mode right now.
7DollarHagane
Banned
This is why I think it's a failure to transition between usage modes. With all the complicated configurations and setups and being able to switch at any time this seems like a classic bug that doesn't get discovered until it's in mass usage. It only happens one in 1,000 transitions but now you have hundreds of people using it and transitioning modes.
serenewarfare
Banned
The strangest thing is that some can't even replicate the issue still.
no worries. honestly this will potentially affect Nintendo far more than me and to spin it in a more positive light at least a potential hardware defect is rearing its head and making waves pre launch and not a year later when the console is out of warranty.
Parapraxis
Member
This is very true, yes.
This is all very exciting to say the least, I'm holding off on Switch, but it's turning into one thrilling launch imo.
In my findings, the tabletop mode still reproduces the effect that's showing in the gamexplain video meaning if you cover the controller it becomes wonky. Aside from that though the actual signal seems to be much much stronger when in tabletop. Not sure why