Jim Sterling, Laura Kate Dale: Warning to Yooka-Laylee Pre-Orderers

Still excited for this game, though after giving Nuts & Bolts an unbelievable amount of shit over the last decade, I kinda feel obliged to buy Y-L


Wagram said:
Reading this thread is pretty embarrassing.
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Every Jim-related thread is gonna be like this from now on isn't it? I wouldn't mind but his Zelda review text was completely aligned with the given score, it outlined in detail what he didn't like about the game. I'm playing and loving it right now, but I have all the exact same issues he had, they just don't bother me to the same extent.
 
King_Moc said:
God forbid a reviewer tries to warn a consumer about a product they think is bad.
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Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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Are reviewers also 'stepping over a line' when they claim a game is a 'must buy' or an 'essential' or something along those lines?

'Think again about pre-orders' is just good advice in general, regardless of how good a game ends up being.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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Why not? Its not blasphemy to tell people to stop preordering blindly and wait for some real feedback. Preorder culture has only reinforced poor publisher decisions and burned many many customers.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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"How dare someone tell people to not put money down on a product before properly detailed unembargoed impressions are available!"

Do you feel that Playtonic are entitled to sales or something?
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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No, he was advising not to maybe not pre-order the game until the reviews. Which is good practice frankly.

Buying something on hope is nice but goes against someone who is pretty consistently on the side of the consumer.

If you follow what he actually says, you'll still have a week to pre order the game once the reviews are out. Nothing particularly controversial other than to people who don't like being told that their pre orders aren't the cleverest thing in the world.

Again I say this as someone who pitched into the Kickstarter so I am locked in at this point!
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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Bullshit
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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Pre-order culture has led to the success of some average to terrible games. Im still disgusted by how well Colonial Marines sold.
 
Yukinari said:
Pre-order culture has led to the success of some average to terrible games. Im still disgusted by how well Colonial Marines sold.
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In that particular case, they fabricated a 100% fake 10 min demo that in no way resembled the finished product. They flat-out lied to people about what that game was going to be. They used that fake footage to market the game, when combined with a killer licence and a release-day embargo, you can hardly blame people for that one.

But Borderlands is great so lets just forgive Gearbox for pulling off one of the shadiest moves the industry has ever seen.
 
Oh, come off it! He wasn't making a statement about pre-order culture, he was telling people not to buy this game, for reasons we won't fully know until the reviews. What if the game is decent but Jim has a beef about the performance. It's unfair for them to lose sales this way. It's got him attention, which is what he wants.

He is free advise people against the game in a review where he explains why the performance issues are game-crippling.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Zelda BotW runs sub 20fps in places. N64 games used to run at single figure fps.

He can mention it as an issue.

But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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Just so you know, you might just have created a post carrying the spirit of 'Square just shot themselves in the foot' so well that this quote might just outlive us all.

I love this thread. People really go insane over products that aren't even out yet huh.

It's okay to like something that someone else doesn't like. It's okay to like something that the majority of people might not like. This game isn't even out yet. Maybe it'll be good, maybe it won't. It won't be for everyone (it doesn't look particularly fun to me, but people here seem excited - more power to them). Outside of the rabid fanbase, I'm far from the only one that had doubts about those gameplay videos - and that's not even talking about possible performance issues. Those guys are reviewers. It's their job to share their opinion about the game. That's all. The game won't live or die by just one reviewer's opinion.

All that is fine. Nobody is getting killed. Relax. You can still enjoy your game even if people like me won't like it.
 
benzopil said:
Reviews will be live 7 days before the release. Such anticonsumer, much embargo.
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OK, thats nice from them, still its funny how people fight battles for a industry that treats them like cashcows :D

I give a shit about people breaking Embargos as long as it is in my favor.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
No. The problem is doing it when they are under an embargo and refuse to give any details on what they meant makes it seem little more than inflammatory.
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I take it as 'It has problems that we can't go into detail on just yet'. Nothing inflammatory about that unless you're really defensive or sensitive.

Sir_Stoo said:
Oh, come off it! He wasn't making a statement about pre-order culture, he was telling people not to buy this game, for reasons we won't fully know until the reviews. What if the game is decent but Jim has a beef about the performance. It's unfair for them to lose sales this way. It's got him attention, which is what he wants.

He is free advise people against the game in a review where he explains why the performance issues are game-crippling.
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If he has 'beef' about the performance he's totally within his rights as a reviewer and critic to tell people he doesn't think it's worth buying, and anyone who listens to him is well within their rights to ignore him and make their own mind up. If they don't want to lose sales due to people talking about performance issues, then iron out your peromance issues.
 
The review embargo is one week before release. If there are crippling performance issues people will know and can make their minds up.
 
Stop It said:
No, he was advising not to maybe not pre-order the game until the reviews. Which is good practice frankly.

Buying something on hope is nice but goes against someone who is pretty consistently on the side of the consumer.

If you follow what he actually says, you'll still have a week to pre order the game once the reviews are out. Nothing particularly controversial other than to people who don't like being told that their pre orders aren't the cleverest thing in the world.

Again I say this as someone who pitched into the Kickstarter so I am locked in at this point!
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By the same metric, you also have one week to cancel your preorder if the reviews are bad, so it's not really a issue either way.
 
Gravy Boat said:
Then why do you care about any of this?
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Because such weight is put on the opinions of one journalist who spoke out unprofessionally in this instance, with the intention of drawing attention to himself. It affects the perception of the IP and the sales of the game, which for all we know might be perfectly decent.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
The review embargo is one week before release. If there are crippling performance issues people will know and can make their minds up.
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Then what the fuck are you complaining about?

Jim has not told people not to buy the game but to hold off until they see the reviews, likely because of potential technical issues.

You can choose to ignore that advice but your argument doesn't match actual events.
Sir_Stoo said:
Because such weight is put on the opinions of one journalist who spoke out unprofessionally in this instance, with the intention of drawing attention to himself. It affects the perception of the IP and the sales of the game, which for all we know might be perfectly decent.
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Kindly Fuck off with your concern trolling.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Oh, come off it! He wasn't making a statement about pre-order culture, he was telling people not to buy this game, for reasons we won't fully know until the reviews. What if the game is decent but Jim has a beef about the performance. It's unfair for them to lose sales this way. It's got him attention, which is what he wants.

He is free advise people against the game in a review where he explains why the performance issues are game-crippling.
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I don't see "if you pre-ordered it, think twice" as telling people not to buy the game, but rather a useful tip about giving money to anyone based on promises. And if YL turns out decent people are free to buy the game. As far as I know there are no pre-order bonuses and econominal incentives thay would make preordering YL a good deal. I wish the game is great and it performs well on PS4 where I intend to play it on sometime in the future.

I also don't agree with reviews being the one-and-done point where it's obvious whether it's worth to buy the game or not. We've seen too many instances where reviews ignored technical problems and were very different from what gamers thought about the game.

Sir_Stoo said:
It affects the perception of the IP and the sales of the game, which for all we know might be perfectly decent.
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I think the whole Jontron debacle had more influence (both positive and negative) on YL's perception than a few words from a very range-limited podcast. Carry on though.
 
Pretty unprofessional comments, I backed the game so I'll wait and see. They are a small team so don't expect the game to be perfect... also Banjo was pretty choppy on N64 haha j/k
 
Halfmunch said:
Pretty unprofessional comments, I backed the game so I'll wait and see. They are a small team so don't expect the game to be perfect... also Banjo was pretty choppy on N64 haha j/k
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Churlish comment. We hold them to the same standard as a MagicalTimeBean, Moon Studios or even a Hello Games.

They've taken money for a product they promised and peoplebhave every right to evaluate whether that effort justifies the overall expense.

You backed the game, so you're maybe just looking a bit of confirmation bias here no?
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Because such weight is put on the opinions of one journalist who spoke out unprofessionally in this instance, with the intention of drawing attention to himself. It affects the perception of the IP and the sales of the game, which for all we know might be perfectly decent.
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The only ones putting any weight on it are the ones trying to discredit him. Who actually cares if he has some not-so good things to say about it? Give people some credit and assume they're actually able to make their own decisions and don't just blindly follow the words of one man.

I can't get my head around this at all. So what if he says bad things about it? Are you worried on behalf of the devs that it'll affect their sales? Why? If the game is good it'll sell well. I keep repeating this but who actually cares if a reviewer doesn't like a game you're excited for? It's such a childish mentality to have. People really need to grow up and stop getting so upset that someone else doesn't like a thing they like.
 
Not Drake said:
I also don't agree with reviews being the one-and-done point where it's obvious whether it's worth to buy the game or not.
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When there's an embargo other journalists are respecting it's a matter of professional courtesy.

I think the whole Jontron debacle had more influence (both positive and negative) on YL's perception than a few words from a very range-limited podcast. Carry on though.
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Well there's a thread on the front page of one of the largest gaming forums in the world warning all Pre-Orderers of Yooka Laylee, so that's some influence.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
When there's an embargo other journalists are respecting it's a matter of professional courtesy.



Well there's a thread on the front page of one of the largest gaming forums in the world warning all Pre-Orderers of Yooka Laylee, so that's some influence.
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Yooka Laylee isn't going to fail because of Jim. I haven't listened to the podcast, but if the most he said was to not preorder, then that's very different from saying not ti buy it at all.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Because such weight is put on the opinions of one journalist who spoke out unprofessionally in this instance, with the intention of drawing attention to himself. It affects the perception of the IP and the sales of the game, which for all we know might be perfectly decent.
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This is pretty sad. Laura Kate Dale alluded to the same and, as mentioned, she's one of very few people to make the same observation about the Switch version of Zelda at the preview events. Neither of them have any reason to be saying this without it being true. If you've convinced yourself they do have a reason, then I would suggest that you may be biased. Either in favour of Playtonic, or against Jim Sterling.
 
A Link to the Past said:
Your first part makes no sense to me. Your complaints about BotW's review comes off as you being mad that he didn't like a system that lots of people don't like. What should he do? Should he lie and say that actually, BotW is an 8? Or a 9? Or a 10?
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That being said, we can also say that since he finds stuff disappointing in BOTW that i didn't find disappointing at all. Maybe him and "me" don't share the same view at all on video games.

That mean i can't really "trust" him about his taste in video game. If he says something is bad because of framerate, maybe for me, it will not be nearly as annoying since i know it wasn't on a previous review.

... Or something like that.
 
Jeez, the people calling them "Slimy" for warning potential customers of a potentially bad performing game. Really? Why be so concerned with the developers/publishers feelings when they want to sell YOU a potentially bad performing product? Wish more reviewers did this thing more tbh. This is a good move for consumers, be wary of the warning or not I guess, we'll see in two weeks.

Hope it's not true of course or if there's a patch to fix it (But why they would give it to reviewers in that state boggles my mind too), as it'd be a shame for another platformer to go downhill when I really want the genre to return.
 
The reason embargoes exist is to ensure all writers are on a level playing field. Without embargoes, you get a race to the bottom. Code will be sent out, and many sites will do their job diligently by playing the game to completion and writing up thoughtful impressions.

However, without the embargo, you'll always get a couple of sites who'll play for an hour and write up their review. And guess what? They'll get the most traffic, punishing those who do a proper job.

The embargo for this game lifts a week before launch. There's plenty of time for you to read all of the impressions and decide whether or not you want to buy it. There's nothing wrong with this practice.
 
It will be funny when Jim scores this game comparatively to Zelda. Like a 6 or 7. 8 would make the internet explode.

That 7 on Zelda was the most business decision in modern gaming, lol. Allet eyes on Jim now.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Well there's a thread on the front page of one of the largest gaming forums in the world warning all Pre-Orderers of Yooka Laylee, so that's some influence.
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Well you know you are literally the one keeping it on the first page by posting. It does not help when the things you say are so ridicolus that it also becomes source of 90% of the replies.
 
Two things:

I don't think anyone is saying Jim and Laura aren't honest and looking out for consumers, just that their opinions shouldn't be summised in a podcast one week before the embargo breaks, ahead of other journalists and where there isn't the full context of a review.

Additionally, you might mock the developers feelings, but I'm confident creating a game like Yooka Laylee, even if it's bad, takes a lot more passion, sweat and effort than dressing up like an Indiana Jones villain, standing in front of a red cloth and ranting about other people's work.
 
GAMEPROFF said:
So now Anti-Consumer Embargos are ok?
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Embargos aren't inherently anti-consumer (although embargos that end at or after the actual release of a game are extremely suspect).

They're there so journalists have enough of a lead time to actually play a game properly and give an informed review instead of racing to be first with the hottest take.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
But "think again" about pre-orders?! That is the part that is stepping over a line. Advising consumers not to buy a game in a preview, before the full review, which itself will come ahead of release.
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I don't really understand what your problem with this is. Why is expressing his opinion "stepping over a line"? Why is warning consumers in a preview frowned upon?!

Sir_Stoo said:
Additionally, you might mock the developers feelings, but I'm confident creating a game like Yooka Laylee, even if it's bad, takes a lot more passion, sweat and effort than dressing up like an Indiana Jones villain, standing in front of a red cloth and ranting about other people's work.
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I have no idea what this has to do with the topic at hand?! Should Jim not be allowed to criticise the game if his job is not as hard as developing a game??
 
I just don't really see the point of them saying "nuh-uh" now when the embargo lifts Tuesday and they would be able to substantiate this claim.
 
Sir_Stoo said:
Additionally, you might mock the developers feelings, but I'm confident creating a game like Yooka Laylee, even if it's bad, takes a lot more passion, sweat and effort than dressing up like an Indiana Jones villain, standing in front of a red cloth and ranting about other people's work.
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Wtf is this even supposed to mean? Are you suggesting that people aren't allowed to have am opinion unless they are in the same line of work as the thing they are critiquing?
 
I canceled my pre order, primary reason was that I have too much other stuff to play. I think I'll wait for the switch version before I decide if and on what form I gonna buy this game.
 
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