UK set to trigger Brexit on March 29

When should the UK celebrate Independence Day?

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EleventhHourSuperpower said:
Gibraltar was captured in 1704 and formally ceded in 1713. The date at which it became a Crown Colony is not relevant, nor is when it changed it a British Overseas Territory. I don't think colonial status or not really matters. At one point Algeria was integrated into France, that sort of formal status wasn't really relevant to anything either. British Overseas territories that remain tend to be pretty content with their status, so them not being integrated into the UK is of no consequence, in my view, because it's either preferable or of no consequence in their own. We're talking about over 300 years of uninterrupted British sovereignty, and a similar situation for Spain in those two sections of North Africa.

They're not entirely similar, but it's not something to lose sleep over, and colonial status isn't terribly relevant when ~99 percent of the population is emphatic that their current status is just fine in two referendums.
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The Treaty of Utrecht was very clear in what was ceded to the UK.

"the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging"

"the Catholic King wills, and takes it to be understood that the above-named propriety be yielded to Great Britain without any territorial jurisdiction"

not the entire isthmus.

The British legal claim to the rest of the land and the territorial waters is essentially "well we've been here a while now" but neither the territorial jurisdiction nor the bulk of the land was formally ceded by Spain so you can understand why they get a bit snippy about it.
 
I think near the end of the two years, the discussions will have been so pointless, the outcome of no deal so stupid, the outcome of accepting four freedoms for free trade being so pointless because we have the best deal already and so no middle ground is worth it that the UK Government will table another referendum, stay in the EU or take a no deal and hopefully the UK population have been educated enough about the EU and Brexit that they'll make a better choice and vote to stay in the EU.
 
Dan27 said:
That didn't stop Leanne Wood hinting about their own independence referendum a few weeks back, bizarrely enough.
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I might just give up and follow Welsh politics full time, it seems to be absolutely hilarious. Particularly when you throw Neil Hamilton into the mix.
 
Is there any evidence that May would struggle to sell a transitional deal with EU control to the public?

I have seen it said in a few places, I can't believe with half the country that voted to remain that the public is so fucking extreme.
 
jelly said:
I think near the end of the two years, the discussions will have been so pointless, the outcome of no deal so stupid, the outcome of accepting four freedoms for free trade being so pointless because we have the best deal already and so no middle ground is worth it that the UK Government will table another referendum, stay in the EU or take a no deal and hopefully the UK population have been educated enough about the EU and Brexit that they'll make a better choice and vote to stay in the EU.
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you think UK will stay with the current special comditions? tough luck
 
PJV3 said:
Is there any evidence that May would struggle to sell a transitional deal with EU control to the public?

I have seen it said in a few places, I can't believe with half the country that voted to remain that the public is so fucking extreme.
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The public would probably be fine with it. The Express, The Mail and the right wing eurosceptics in the Tory Party would probably not be fine with it.
 
Uzzy said:
The public would probably be fine with it. The Express, The Mail and the right wing eurosceptics in the Tory Party would probably not be fine with it.
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That's what I thought but I have read the opposite in a few papers. They're getting their Brexit so besides the idiots who think it could be sorted out in an afternoon most people should be at least content for now.

I'm getting a little anxious that May is more spineless than I imagined.
 
jelly said:
I think near the end of the two years, the discussions will have been so pointless, the outcome of no deal so stupid, the outcome of accepting four freedoms for free trade being so pointless because we have the best deal already and so no middle ground is worth it that the UK Government will table another referendum, stay in the EU or take a no deal and hopefully the UK population have been educated enough about the EU and Brexit that they'll make a better choice and vote to stay in the EU.
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It's not their decision any longer. Any EU member can veto halting the exit talks and I doubt that all of them will be OK with the UK going "ehh, we aren't actually leaving after all since the new deal sucks".
 
tomtom94 said:
Time will tell but Cameron ought to be the one who gets the blame for losing Scotland, he's the one who made promises his little Englanders couldn't cash. May is just dragging out what looks at this point to be the inevitable.
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If the people of Scotland opt to leave, that's on them, not Cameron.
 
Well, if the past week is anything to go by, today should be an interesting one to try and seperate the fact from fiction amongst the Brexit news.

Happy April Fools' Day
?
 
D4Danger said:
I would like to see them put forward the argument just for a laugh.
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I actually think the argument for Wales in the EU is stronger than Scotland in the EU. Wales relies most on EU subsidies, and the EU single market is its biggest export destination, even more so than the rest of the UK. Scotland can't make those claims. It makes the reason why Wales vote Leave so upsetting, really. Though when the Leave traitors lied about replacing Welsh funding pound for pound if we left, then rowed back as soon as they'd won, it's not as surprising. People here feel ignored, and they want change.

Even so, while Wales voted Leave, everyone is allowed to change their minds, and no part of the UK is going to be fucked more than Wales when it comes to Brexit. If Scotland goes and the UK no longer exists, then there's a lot of concerns that Welsh devolution and the national identity will be at risk.

Leanne Wood has said she wants a referendum that puts independence on the table, but also an option for devo-max so that Wales can fully control its own affairs without breaking away from England.
 
Xando said:
Because most people still think it's gonna be a deal in 2 years or WTO. Negotiating a trade deal within 12-14 months is just not possible.
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It's probably a tad easier when laws and regulations are already aligned.

This won't be negotiated like a traditional trade deal, in fact it will be the opposite of how a trade deal is discussed.
 
Spain drops plan to impose veto if Scotland tries to join EU

Spain has said it would not veto an attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU, in the clearest sign yet that Brexit has softened Madrid's longstanding opposition.
Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland's EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK. He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years.
Asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: "No, we wouldn't."
But Madrid is keen not to fuel Catalonia's desire for independence. "We don't want it [Scottish independence] to happen," he said. "But if it happens legally and constitutionally, we would not block it. We don't encourage the breakup of any member states, because we think the future goes in a different direction."
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Chinner said:
Just imagine, when we do leave the EU and if Scotland does manage to escape we might get our own 'BUILD THAT WALL' moment!
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Don't joke, since the financial crisis this place has turned out to be awfully similar to some of the red bits of the US.
 
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