Clinton: 'I was on the way to winning' until Comey, Russia intervened

ElFly said:
She can say that russia and comey affected it, but then she doesn't get to say she takes absolute responsibility

It is obviously not her responsibility what comey and the russians did
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This is insanity.

Fact: Russia and Comey affected the results.

Fact: She can take responsibility for all the decisions of the campaign that she had control over.

Seriously, why are you people angry at her not taking responsibility for shit you just said she can't take responsibility over. She didn't fucking hack the DNC. She didn't tell Comey to rush off to congress with some bullshit found on Anthony Wiener's goddamned laptop that almost everyone knew would be nothing. She didn't tell the NY Times to print that shit in boldest letters possible. She did, however, have ultimate responsibility for the direction of the campaign, the schedules, and the ad buys that may have overcome that.

THESE THINGS ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. That is a fact. Just stop letting your hate for Hillary get in the way of logic.
 
Well she was slaying until the 11th hour when it all turned around. Doesn't mean we don't have a ton to learn from, but it did significantly matter.
 
Into the Light said:
As someone who has traveled a lot in my life, It hurts me to see so many say what an awful country the US is. Some of you have no idea how lucky you are. Truly.

Go visit a place like Honduras, Or even Turkey for that matter, and then tell me how awful you have it here. While you may not like who is in charge of it all. We are so lucky to have what we have available to us here. It boggles my mind to see so much hate for a country that affords you so much in the way of freedom and amenities. I wont even get into Europe.

Thats all I wanted to say. Im sure Ill get blasted for it.
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Give me a break with this shit
 
I'll never forget the day Trump took office. I asked Alexa when I got home for pole standings, she said Trump is ahead. I was absolutely dumbfounded.
 
Psychoward said:
The rules were clear; that the EC is to stop an incompetent demagogue from taking power if they were chosen, they failed their duty. Time to scrap it and institute a voting procedure that makes sense.
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Absolutely, but this probably won't happen for a very long time, if ever. :(

This is why the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact was created as an alternative to getting rid of the Electoral College.
 
Breads said:
Nope.

Not until we address the treason and espionage.


I'm just saying that it's definitely the single biggest factor.
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Beyond true. I don't think people comprehend what would happen to a common government worker if they were found, or even accused, of what she did.
 
I'm getting so frustrated and pissed off at the "she didn't take responsibility" comments, should be bannable tbh.

Glenn Thrush can go fuck himself too.
 
DietRob said:
So the media giving Trump over a billion in "free" advertising is Hillary's fault? Ok.

Your point about the campaign trail is valid I'll give you that but she had no control over how he was covered in the media.
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Hell yea she had some control, only thing you can count is your own effort - and she had a streak of no press conferences, and was nowhere near as active as Trump was with both traditional and social media. Not to mention this isn't her first rodeo unlike the birther rookie, and rallies help grab attention. Media hated Trump, but the people hate the media (and politicians).

Still very winnable, Hillary was a no-show though and took voters for granted
 
diaspora said:
Nobody's underestimating him as much as they're overestimating the American electorate.
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I mean yeah, but I don't see too much of a difference there. One leads to the either.

Either way, people need to realize that Trump was never going to be "easy" to beat for anyone - Hillary or Bernie or O'Malley or whoever.
 
yeah sure, but the fact that that sunk her against a fucking lunatic like Trump......Hilary was the perfect person to go up against Trump and lose, the decades long republican smear against her finally came to fruition. We should never have been in a position with two of the most unlikable candidates in history facing off.
 
Icedburden said:
Beyond true. I don't think people comprehend what would happen to a common government worker if they were found, or even accused, of what she did.
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I think people making this point are universally a victim of bad assumptions based on shitty reasoning and ignorance. There were no crimes. Period.
 
KHarvey16 said:
You're almost there. If those things aren't her responsibility and they factually contributed to her loss, then...
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Then she isn't absolutely responsible, and thus she is lying in the interview, and thus instead of acting all noble and still try to blame russia, she could be acknowledging explicitly whst she did wrong

That is what we want. Precise allocation of blame and course correction of the party. This is what we do not see happening and is why we are so angry to clinton saying that she takes absolute responsibility - which younseem to agree is a lie- and still blaming Russia, instead of saying specifically where she failed

Change requires FIRST identifying what you did wrong. Clinton is not doing that
 
My problem with Shattered is that I feel like journalists and others are using it to deflect their culpability in an 18 month long witch hunt against Clinton.

"See!!! We were right all along! It's all her fault even though Russia socially engineering the 2016 election is probably one of the biggest news stories in our nations history but EMAILS EMAILS EMAILS because ratings and ad revenue."

The double standard is amazing.
 
ElFly said:
Then she isn't absolutely responsible, and thus instead of acting all noble and still try to blame russia, she could be acknowledging explicitly whst she did wrong

That is what we want. Precise allocation of blame and course correction of the party. This is what we do not see happening and is why we are so angry to clinton saying that she takes absolute responsibility - which younseem to agree is a lie- and still blaming Russia, instead of saying specifically where she failed

Change requires FIRST identifying what you did wrong. Clinton is not doing that
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It's not her job to, since she won't be running. That's why there's a post-mortem being done by the DNC.
 
Fact 1: She fucked up a lot
Fact 2: Russia/Wikileaks hurt her a lot
Fact 3: She was still despite all that still on track to win until Comey decided in the 11th hour to stir some shit.

All these are true.
 
vainglorious said:
My problem with Shattered is that I feel like journalists and others are using it to deflect their culpability in an 18 month long witch hunt against Clinton.
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Agreed 100%. There is a lot of blame to go around and the media needs to take in their part of it.
 
It was that and people's unhappiness with the economy. Cause, the man that declared bankruptcy multiple times, combined with the party that fucking gave us reganomics will surely create prosperity for all. What a bunch of blue collar guys!
 
KHarvey16 said:
I think people making this point are universally a victim of bad assumptions based on shitty reasoning and ignorance. There were no crimes. Period.
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Yeah, ok. I believe the ignorance is on you. I DO know what would happen if someone with a clearance was housing servers that had even questionable classified emails on their private servers. You would say goodbye to the light.
 
ElFly said:
Then she isn't absolutely responsible, and thus instead of acting all noble and still try to blame russia, she could be acknowledging explicitly whst she did wrong

That is what we want. Precise allocation of blame and course correction of the party. This is what we do not see happening and is why we are so angry to clinton saying that she takes absolute responsibility - which younseem to agree is a lie- and still blaming Russia, instead of saying specifically where she failed

Change requires FIRST identifying what you did wrong. Clinton is not doing that
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So explain this to me. She takes responsibility for the mistakes she and her campaign made. She points out, correctly, that she was going to win despite those mistakes but then outside factors caused her to lose.

Where is the not taking responsibility part? Where is the effort to overlook mistakes?

Why the fuck do her comments mean the party isn't addressing its shortcomings?

Your argument sucks and you should make a better one.
 
I think the main reason she lost was due to her message. People wouldn't have given a shit about her emails if she inspired people to vote for her based on policy as opposed to "vote for me because the other guy is trash."

Also didn't help that she came off as disingenuous whenever she spoke, or that the Clintons are the face of the old guard of corporate democrats. All of this compounded by her going up against Bernie Sanders who showed voters what an actual progressive looks like.
 
excelsiorlef said:
Fact 1: She fucked up a lot
Fact 2: Russia/Wikileaks hurt her a lot
Fact 3: She was still despite all that still on track to win until Comey decided in the 11th hour to stir some shit.

All these are true.
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I'd say she was still on track to win after comey. even the last polls before the election were very optimistic for a Clinton presidency.
 
BADMAN said:
I think the main reason she lost was due to her message. People wouldn't have given a shit about her emails if she inspired people to vote for her based on policy as opposed to "vote for me because the other guy is trash."

Also didn't help that she came off as disingenuous whenever she spoke, or that the Clintons are the face of the old guard of corporate democrats. All of this compounded by her going up against Bernie Sanders who showed voters what an actual progressive looks like.
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The "actual progressive" got blown out pretty hard by the most progressive voters in the American electorate.
 
paperboywriter said:
I'd say she was still on track to win after comey. even the last polls before the election were very optimistic for a Clinton presidency.
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Yeah. I would agree with all of excelsiorlef's points and also add

4. Even with all that shit she probably had a good chance of winning, that's why the election was so close.
 
7LbeQNN.jpg


The worst timeline...
 
pigeon said:
Yeah. I would agree with all of excelsiorlef's points and also add

4. Even with all that shit she probably had a good chance of winning, that's why the election was so close.
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Oh sure but she didn't win... And the so close going in Trump's favor was the Comey effect
 
Sliver said:
Give me a break with THIS shit
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But there are many pockets in the US that are just as bad as those areas you visited. You just haven't visited those place in this country.

The only difference is that one has internet(unstable at best) and possibly clean water
 
Icedburden said:
Yeah, ok. I believe the ignorance is on you. I DO know what would happen if someone with a clearance was housing servers that had even questionable classified emails on their private servers. You would say goodbye to the light.
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Despite breaking no laws?

This is a thing people love to just assert. "Oh if it were the little guy it'd be all over, believe me!" Well, I don't.

It's also the case that there is a substantive difference between some office worker and the Secretary of State. Guess which position previously used separate emails? Guess which position doesn't sit at one desk for 8 hours?
 
DontBeThatGuy said:
Still refusing to also blame anyone/anything else, eh? There's lots of blame to go around.
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Yeah, and nothing will change the fact that she lost to Donald Fucking Trump, on what should've been the easiest win in decades, and that man is now the President of the United States, doing stupid shit every single day and wasting taxpayers money in Mar-a-lago.
 
There were probably a lot of factors which, if played out slightly differently, would have resulted in Clinton winning. Some of them were outside her control (Comey, Russia). Some were inside her control (messaging, campaign team). By addressing the latter, some of the former might have been insufficient to derail her, so in that sense she bears full responsibility - which she acknowledges. But it remains true that had the former had not have happened, she would have won - which is what she says. All in all, she's not exactly my cup of tea, but I don't think what she says is untrue.

The bigger issue is whether she needed to say it all. Fundamentally, to win in 2020, at least some people who voted for Trump need to vote for the 2020 Democratic nominee for that Democratic nominee to win. If you imply that everyone who voted for Trump was hoodwinked by Russia, well, that's not likely to win hearts and minds.
 
Icedburden said:
RIP huh? You know there are slums everywhere, right? I forgot what it's like to try and bring an opposing and level-headed view in these threads is like.
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I can think of another country that has slums everywhere

The point is "other places are worse" is not a valid argument about wanting your own country to be better
 
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