The best thing is, that there was actually a seperate character whose job it was to pump the tires.Words to live by.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 |OT| Anyone can save the galaxy once - SPOILERS!
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Jest Chillin
Member
It's a quote that too often gets trotted out to dismiss any critique at all. Just because something is a made up story, doesn't mean it shouldn't be beholden to a standard of quality.
The real key is that there's a difference between The Little Mermaid and any of the most recent iterations of comic book movies in that The Little Mermaid is aimed squarely at kids (families by proxy) while the comic book movies are aimed at general audiences. A film aimed at general audiences should absolutely have internal logic applied to it and characterization being consistent and having an internal logic if it isn't, is not a dumb thing.
I.e. There is a difference between "Who puts air in the Batmobile's tire's?" is not the same as "Why is Groot acting differently in the sequel?" The first question doesn't matter. The second does matter for characterization, even if the answer seems obvious to many of us.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I mean it's not, that's the whole point of the joke. Peter gets his music tech updated about 20 years and instead of it being the iconic, almost ubiquitous music tech of the 2000s, it's a freaking Zune. And Peter's pure shock and joy at "300 songs!" Lol
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Just got out of watching it. Really enjoyed it. It was more of the same, which is why I think the first was better. It was different at the time. Definitely worth a watch.
The point is that it is obvious, he's a baby, it's plain and simple why he isn't smart. But because it's a comic book movie, we need a reason for it, and will nitpick and try to look at it from every single angle possible. Hell, we might even need some lore for Groot's race detailing why he isn't smart anymore. It's all dumb and pointless.
He's a baby and babies are dumb. It's that simple.
Kids know why baby Groot is the way he is, adults want more than the obvious.
Yeah, I missed it the first watch but once Peter rejects his father's plan, that's when he tentacles him and tells Peter "Fine. I'll just use you for a battery." or something along those lines.
Ego is a narcissist and a sociopath, which is the irony of Mantis, the empath, being pretty much the only being he has contact with.
On a somewhat related note, it's interesting how Ego keeps around Mantis to help him sleep, and we find out from Mantis it's because he can't stop thinking about his progeny. At first it seems like a sweet thought that he misses his son so much that it haunts him leaving him on Earth, but when we find out his plan, I don't take it so much that he misses Peter, but that Peter was the only child (out of probably thousands) that he realized passed on his genes (since he later heard he was able to hold an Infinity Stone). That's why he never visited him all those years Peter grew up on Earth, because he was too busy spreading his seed and why he never bothered coming after Yondu for keeping the boy all those years since he probably not only couldn't keep track of all his offspring, but didn't care about them unless they carried his gene. If they didn't, he'd just kill them off.
Ego's selfish way of attempting to find an heir is also probably why he gave Peter's mom a tumor, and likely all his kid's mothers, so they would have no other parents by the time Ego would send Yondu to come pick them up so it would be easier for him to take them away from their planet and bond with him without having to build a relationship with them. The Brandy song suggests that he preyed on women that would love him and wait for him even though he wouldn't be around. He's the sailor and his love is the sea and Brandy is a girl that understands, which actually was one of the only things that seems Ego was 100% earnest about.
Glass Rebel
Member
Selvig is the only Earth side-character I can tolerate.
Yes but a person or in this case a thing has a big ego they usually aren't lone wolves, they want to socialize and put it on display.
And you mean to tell me in those millions of years he hasn't run into anything worthy to be his buddy? What about the other celestials and cosmic beings? Even in the MCU there are so many beings way above him. I wish films were more consistent with things like this.
And you mean to tell me in those millions of years he hasn't run into anything worthy to be his buddy? What about the other celestials and cosmic beings? Even in the MCU there are so many beings way above him. I wish films were more consistent with things like this.
Glass Rebel
Member
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Do you think groot retains all knowledge prior to the explosion?
To me I always saw it he's a regenerative tree alien that can grow and regrow. And yea he was small in size but it was still him...just regrowing. Which is why I found the change of personality a bit odd.
The movie really seems to put forth the notion his size either affects his moods or it's not even really the same groot. More an offspring of sorts. I can't recall this groot ever mentioning anything pre explosion to rule one way or another.
To me I always saw it he's a regenerative tree alien that can grow and regrow. And yea he was small in size but it was still him...just regrowing. Which is why I found the change of personality a bit odd.
The movie really seems to put forth the notion his size either affects his moods or it's not even really the same groot. More an offspring of sorts. I can't recall this groot ever mentioning anything pre explosion to rule one way or another.
In all fairness, nitpicking like this is not just a comic book movie thing.
Also for the actual nitpick itself, I do not think it even qualifies like the example Grant uses.
Baby Groot is clearly explained through context and example, not by exposition. There are no actual questions of note left to ask.
Bornstellar
Member
Drax also delivered some of the most serious lines in the movie without a comic interlude.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It's not the same Groot. It's a new consciousness and is essentially his offspring. It's a departure from Groot in the comics.
Why do you think Rocket was so upset in the first movie, despite knowing that ultimately Groot can regenerate? He was still losing the Groot he knew and loved.
I am still not sure that he did that knowingly
Which is why it's very silly for people to even bring it up.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I read that as Rocket never knew he could do that and they went for the conventional sad over a death fake out deal.
eterThat scene with the original Guardians was amazing for me on a personal level. I was the only kid reading Guardians of the Galaxy back in the 80's-90's. I still have a ton of issues I'm about to dig up and read now.
And that was Ving Rhames as Charlie 27. I was the only guy in the theater losing their shit. So awesome. Seeing Martinex, Starhawk and the gang was great.
And that was Ving Rhames as Charlie 27. I was the only guy in the theater losing their shit. So awesome. Seeing Martinex, Starhawk and the gang was great.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You already said everything about those themes. We know Thanos is a cruel father who disfigured his weak children. That's it. There isn't any exploration into these themes because it would 100% remove the tone of the movie which is why shit jokes are used in emotional moments. Yeah, there's parental abuse but it's used as a tool for revenge istead of thought or insight.
The same applies to the rest. There's no dissecting of ideas because their just window dressing at this point.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Lmao
The only standard is did they character or plot line "earn it" IMO. Did they use characterization and narrative glue to get there? Or did they throw something up because it was cool, like wet noodles.
Zack Snyder for example had a hell of an eye. The man can compose a shot. But. That's it. He doesn't know how to tell a story, visually or narratively. He characters do a lot of things, and his movies go places, but they never earn it within the logic of his own pieces.
hipsterpants
Member
My review:
cosmic shit = awesome
jokes = pretty weak, but a few laughs
Same problem I had with Dr. Strange in that there are just too many damn jokes that fall flat. I know a lot of people like them but constant "you should be laughing at this" moments really drag the movies down for me. Hopefully Thor actually pulls it off. The cosmic/mystic stuff is great but it gets diluted
cosmic shit = awesome
jokes = pretty weak, but a few laughs
Same problem I had with Dr. Strange in that there are just too many damn jokes that fall flat. I know a lot of people like them but constant "you should be laughing at this" moments really drag the movies down for me. Hopefully Thor actually pulls it off. The cosmic/mystic stuff is great but it gets diluted
Thanos' abuse is absolutely used to give insight into Gamora's and Nebula's characters. Maybe it doesnt work for ya, but its unarguably there for more than window-dressing.
He has a pet that is basically his slave. He's a sociopath that has an empath to literally use her powers to placate him. He also went all the way to experience what it was like to be alive and meet other life, then he concluded that life is boring and wouldn't give up immortality to be with the woman he claimed to have loved.
I think that tells me most of what I need to know about his personality and need for companionship. He does make a big deal about not being alone anymore now that he has Peter, but maybe he'd rather be accompanied by his kid, who he sees as an extension of himself, or by himself cloned throughout the universe, than with any other beings. It did seem like he didn't have the power to take over planets and that he cared more about getting that power from Peter than Peter being a son.
Jest Chillin
Member
Kids don't care why baby Groot is the way he is. They think he's funny. I saw it with my son so I have *some* context for that statement. And what may seem obvious to you isn't obvious to everyone. Life experiences give context to the Groot = Baby parallel and even within those that know he's essentially a baby, there will be differences in reception for it. For example, your statement of "babies are dumb" isn't at all accurate in my mind. At best it's a really simplistic expression. I'm not trying to argue about that statement. Just pointing out how different perceptions can be even with the same general conclusion.
Characterization is a big measurement of standard imo. Both in terms of how the movie character is to the source material and in terms of logical progression of the character in its portrayal.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
And also Stan Lee had Thor use his hammer to fly specifically because it annoyed him that it's never explained how Superman can fly lol
TheDarkKnight774
Member
from a pure story perspective, irregardless of some of the problems I had with the pacing, the two biggest shortcomings I had with the film was
1) ego revealing to Peter he killed his mom with a tumor is so beyond idiotic. I hate it from a plot perspective because it's so unnecessary to include except to hit the audience over the head and say "he's the bad guy!" Like ego is immortal, anyone with the power would be as well. Outside of impatience there's no real reason to kill the mother of his children. But let's say for the sake of argument that's a thing. He knows how attached Peter is to his mom. The two of them have gone over this multiple times throughout the movie and he just goes "yea this is a good time to reveal this info. He'll clearly be on my side!"
2) I wasn't convinced in the gamora/nebula reconciliation. All that baggage, all the conflicts discussed in the past and shown on screen and one scene turns it around? Sure Nebula still left but both sides seemed to move on pretty quickly from their previous hang ups.
I just want to say that Groot's whole bit about hats, as told by Rocket, was hilarious and something that I imagined to be totally Groot and the sort of thing I'd even expect him to even say as an adult. Him being a tree seems like he'd always be confused by things like clothes and fashion.
This whole Groot thing makes even less since if you watched the first movie.
Since when has Groot been smart? Rocket had to tell him to not drink dirty ass fountain water and then tries lying about it when Rocket saw him do it. Or when Rocket tells him to put Peter in the bag and he keeps it up by trying to put Gomara in it? Or how about that time Rocket makes a plan to get them all out, and instead of listening to his plan, Groot just walks over and rips out the battery without thinking of the consequences?
Groot was always a dummy.
In the context of the real word, he is less smart because he is a baby and in the context of him as a character, he is still a dummy and more so since he is just 4 months old.
Since when has Groot been smart? Rocket had to tell him to not drink dirty ass fountain water and then tries lying about it when Rocket saw him do it. Or when Rocket tells him to put Peter in the bag and he keeps it up by trying to put Gomara in it? Or how about that time Rocket makes a plan to get them all out, and instead of listening to his plan, Groot just walks over and rips out the battery without thinking of the consequences?
Groot was always a dummy.
In the context of the real word, he is less smart because he is a baby and in the context of him as a character, he is still a dummy and more so since he is just 4 months old.
Zune was a complete bust. Terrible name, dumb marketing and a pointless battle waged against a competitor who couldn't be stopped.
(But the truth is that the Zune was better than the iPod at the time.)
I wrote something about the first point earlier:
Besides Ego not having the best people skills, as well as being so self-absorbed that he wouldn't be able to see why Peter can't see the beauty of his grand scheme, it seems that Ego doesn't care about death by being immortal and thinks Peter shouldn't care either. I mean, just by revealing his plan, he's basically saying all his friends and everyone he knows will be killed and just by being immortal, he has to accept that inevitability anyways.
At that point, maybe he underestimates how much Peter will just accept his dad's world view, but he cares more about Peter as an energy source than as a companion. He doesn't need Peter's help or consent, he literally just needs his body. The way I see it, the only point where he pleads with Peter to change his mind is when they are about to blow up the core and eliminate his power and therefore his immortality.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I hope Captain America makes fun of Star Lord for owning a Zune
Saw this today and thought it was overall better than the 1st one, which I love. I feel they nailed what I wanted out of a guardians sequel and had some very creative scenes with a good balance of great visuals, comedy, and emotional impact. I even enjoyed baby groot for what he was. I thought the opening was awesome, even though I was focusing on the unfocused action in the background rather than dancing groot.
Mister Wolf
Member
I like how the Ego's whole reason for doing everything was really about him being mad he was stuck in one place.
Inferno313
Banned
Every single character arc in this film is about parenthood. Gamora and Nebula's abuse by Thanos. Starlord's search for his father. Drax finding a daughter figure in Mantis. Rocket's bonding with Yondu over the lack of any kind of parental figure. Baby Groot's relationship with the entire team. It all culminates in the notion that the team itself serves as the group's family. It's not window dressing, it's the driving idea of the movie.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
My take was that in Peter he was hoping he'd finally found someone like him, not just in his ability to manipulate the light or whatever, but also in understanding that all mortal connections had to take a back seat to the big plan. Without that he wouldn't be the second Celestial he needed for his plans, and would be as useless as those bones underground.
I guess in his position I would've tried to ease him into it a bit more slowly...
Or it's a weird sci-fi in-between situation the likes of which real humans rarely encounter.Vipershark said:
Yeah, I almost used puppy earlier but wanted to avoid overlap with one of the things people were mistaking Rocket for.autumnleaf said:
Secret Fawful
Member
I don't really see Mantis as a daughter figure for Drax, but a figure of friendship. Mantis's first friend. If she's a daughter figure that makes the scene where Drax imagines her having sex with him unnecessarily gross.
Inferno313
Banned
I mean... He literally says, moments before that scene, "You remind me so much of my daughter." Or something to that affect.
I read that as the reason for which he's so repulsed by the idea of sex with her, but I don't know.
Jest Chillin
Member
He meant that in terms of innocence. He also views her having so much to do with emotions as naive. It's not a literal daughter surrogate like say... The Last of Us. It's closer to a friendship.
No. If you cut a shoot off of a plant and replant it, you get a clone of the original plant which is obviously completely different from the existing plant. Same thing with Groot.
One thing I really enjoyed is how much Rocket loves Peter's music. He's the type of guy who you'd expect to hate or make fun of Peter for it but he's the one who was setting up some speakers just so they could listen to some tunes while fighting the monster and then did the same for the prison escape.
I hope they use that expact of his character in Infinity Wars.
I hope they use that expact of his character in Infinity Wars.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
They could have had Peter ask him why he didn't just cure his mom, which was my first question after he revealed who he was. Because he seemed completely capable of doing so. Then his reaction could have told Peter he was the one who gave her the cancer.
Secret Fawful
Member
Now I need to see this again because I don't remember him saying that at all. Hmm.
It's the same answer as the whole "why didn't you go back" question though. The two questions essentially have the exact same answer.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Had a blast. Stunning visuals, action and humor, references galore, and best of all a story that revolves around family and relationships and emotional connections. With the possible exception of Groot, every character went on a journey with moments that pulled at the heart.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
If she was dying and he could cure it he probably would have been more motivated to go back. Besides, he might not have even had to go there to do it. If he knew the secret of curing cancer he could have sent someone to do it.
Besides, he had to give her cancer at some point, so he either had to a. come back and give it to her himself or b. send someone to give it to her or c. he's full of shit about not being able to leave for too long
I...I can't deal with this. I always thought the surviving branch meant he survived.
Awww man.
Fun fact: googling sad gif has Betty's Sad Affleck as the 2nd result.
Secret Fawful
Member
Ego's mindset is spelled out plain and clear. Yes he understands how humans work, but Peter isn't entirely human. He sees the human in Peter as a flaw and believed Peter would learn to forget his human attachments. He really believed it wouldn't matter at that point because he was a fool.